Omnimaga: The Coders Of Tomorrow
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
 
Omnimaga: The Coders Of Tomorrow
19 May, 2013, 09:21:42 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
   home   news downloads projects tutorials misc forums rules new posts irc about Login Register  
+-OmnomIRC

You must Register, be logged in and have at least 40 posts to use this shout-box! If it still doesn't show up afterward, it might be that OmnomIRC is disabled for your group or under maintenance.

Note: You can also use an IRC client like mIRC, X-Chat or Mibbit to connect to an EFnet server and #omnimaga.

Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: ELF Loader for Ndless - (now ready for non-dev use) -  (Read 2894 times) Bookmark and Share
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
tangrs
LV4 Regular (Next: 200)
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Yesterday at 03:13:59
Date Registered: 13 July, 2011, 04:32:25
Location: Australia
Posts: 188

Topic starter
Total Post Ratings: +84

View Profile WWW
« Reply #15 on: 19 January, 2012, 14:21:33 »
+2
Just a quick update on this

The ELF loader is at a point where most users can use it. I've removed the debugging console and polished it up a bit. Most users can compile it and use it for loading their ELF files now (instructions on how to build your programs to work on this is on the readme).

It's implemented as a hook onto the normal program loader so you can open ELF binaries just as easily as you do opening normal Ndless binaries.

I'd be interested to hear your feedback and any bug reports!

Thanks!
Logged
DJ Omnimaga
Retired Omnimaga founder (Site issues must be PM'ed to Netham45, Eeems, Shmibs, Deep Thought and AngelFish, not me.)
Editor
LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Today at 07:40:01
Date Registered: 25 August, 2008, 07:00:21
Location: Québec (Canada)
Posts: 50202


Total Post Ratings: +2611

View Profile WWW
« Reply #16 on: 19 January, 2012, 16:26:52 »
0
Hmm interesting stuff, although I have no clue what is ELF at all, so I'M gonna have to do some research on the subject. I'm glad to see new Ndless-related stuff in the works again. Smiley
Logged
Retired 83+ coder, Omnimaga/TIMGUL founder. Now doing power metal music (formerly did electronica)

Follow me on Bandcamp|Facebook|Reverbnation|Youtube|Twitter|Myspace
ExtendeD
Coder Of Tomorrow
LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: 17 May, 2013, 08:07:39
Date Registered: 02 January, 2010, 13:03:41
Location: France
Posts: 765

Total Post Ratings: +151

View Profile
« Reply #17 on: 19 January, 2012, 16:43:24 »
0
Nice tangrs Smiley

For my understanding, before I find more time to look into this :
- What are the remaining issues?
- How big the loader is, and how much bigger does ELF programs are compared to the current programs?
- How far would the loader be from being able to link programs with dynamic libraries (and is this something really want looking back on the TI-68k experience)?
Logged
ndlessly - Progress and insights on Ndless
Ndless / Hackspire - Third-party TI-Nspire development
Juju
Evil Fluttershy (Site issues must be PM'ed to Netham45, Eeems, Shmibs, Deep Thought and AngelFish, not me.)
Coder Of Tomorrow
LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
*
Online Online

Gender: Male
Last Login: Today at 08:57:32
Date Registered: 17 March, 2010, 07:46:57
Location: Québec, North Equestria
Posts: 4524


Total Post Ratings: +394

View Profile WWW
« Reply #18 on: 19 January, 2012, 19:01:18 »
0
ELF is the executable file format used on Linux and most UNIX-based OSes, right?
Logged
LuaIDE
Reuben Quest HD: The PC Remake
Zarmina Project: Play Read
Nspire I/O: Info Download


THEGAME
Spoiler for Other stuff:
Also Yuki "ジュジュ" Kagayaki
Support Casio-Scene against the attacks of matt @ matpac.co.uk ! For more information: Casio-Scene shuts down & Matt actions threads
Find what P+4zJ means and you get free candy! cc4daa9c4645bd123ed22e385ed701fd
#omnimaga on OmniNet, EFNet and Pesterchum
Omnimaga Owner and Former Administrator
Fan of My Little Jim Bauwens: Losing the Game is Magic
Proud member of POLN - Ponys Oppositing Lol Names
Member of OBEL - Omnimaga Board of the EFnrgelnicshh Language - Office Omnimagois de la Langue FArnagnlçaaiiss
あなたはこのゲームを失った
Spoiler for Old spoileryception stuff:

Spoiler for Coming soon...:
Indefinitely halted [|.........] 10%
OmnomIRC Mobile [||||......] 40% (argh threads >_<)
Spoiler for Current/Past TI-related projects:
The Axe Parser Wiki / Founder and maintainer
Keytar Hero [|||||_____] 50% Engine done, wackiness left to do (Halted)
OmniOS
VVVVVV [||||______] 40% (Made most of the engine, extremely glitchy) (Gave it to Leafy)
░█▀█░█░█░█▀▀░█▀█░█▀█░█▀█░▀█▀░█▀▄
░█▀█░▄▀▄░█▀▀░█▀█░█░█░█░█░░█░░█░█v0.1.0
░▀░▀░▀░▀░▀▀▀░▀░▀░▀░▀░▀▀▀░▀▀▀░▀▀░[|||||||||¦] 95ish% (Completed)
tilibs-wii? [._________] 0% (Nope.)
Spoiler for Spoilers:
<!---->
wxWabbitemu Developer
Spoiler for Other Userbars:






<!--Everything done, got 90% Cheesy sudo apt-get install z80asm z80dasm-->
Spoiler for Quote:
We are in 2034. The situation on Earth is catastrophic. The ozone layer has been completely destroyed by the carbonic gas of automobiles, the chemical industries, and the poosh-poosh in little cans. In the end, the earth cooks under the rays of the sun. We must find a planet on which can live 6 billion idiots. The planetary federation turns to the strongest country in the world: Canada. It is Canadian knowledge that has allowed, on October 28, 2034, the launch of the spaceship Romano Fafard, which leaves earth to search the confines of the Universe. Where the hand of man has never set foot.
Quote from: ruler501 on 21 May, 2011, 02:47:48
I hate TI right now
Quote from: jimbauwens
You make me lose the game
Everytime I read your name
Spoiler for The real answer to life, the universe and everything:
Spoiler for Old HTML stuff:
<div style="margin:20px; margin-top:5px"><div class="smallfont" style="margin-bottom:2px">Spoiler for This is another spoiler: <input type="button" value="Show" style="width:60px;font-size:10px;margin:0px;padding:0px;" onclick="window.location.replace('http://goo.gl/QMET');"></div><div class="alt2" style="margin: 0px; padding: 6px; border: 1px inset;"><div style="display: none; ">HAHAHA SUCCESSFUL RICKROLL IS SUCCESSFUL</div></div></div><!-- old avatars:
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/120/d/f/nepeta_nyan_cat_by_supuru-d3f8tcx.gif
http://th01.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2011/099/5/b/rainbow_dash_derping_by_moongazeponies-d3dmg7l.png--><!---->
I may or may not be inactive during work hours (9AM to 5PM EST, Monday to Friday), so for any inquiries please leave a message after the beep and I'll answer you when I have time. Beep. Nevermind, I'm on vacation now. Cheesy
Lionel Debroux
LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
**********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Today at 08:36:08
Date Registered: 17 December, 2009, 09:37:25
Location: France
Posts: 1853

Total Post Ratings: +208

View Profile WWW
« Reply #19 on: 19 January, 2012, 20:11:50 »
0
Right, juju Smiley

Quote
dynamic libraries (and is this something really want looking back on the TI-68k experience)?
Indeed, +1. Even a simple versioning scheme can cure a number of DLL-related woes.
Logged
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TILP and TIEmu.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.
tangrs
LV4 Regular (Next: 200)
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Yesterday at 03:13:59
Date Registered: 13 July, 2011, 04:32:25
Location: Australia
Posts: 188

Topic starter
Total Post Ratings: +84

View Profile WWW
« Reply #20 on: 19 January, 2012, 23:40:28 »
0
Quote from: ExtendeD on 19 January, 2012, 16:43:24
Nice tangrs Smiley

For my understanding, before I find more time to look into this :
- What are the remaining issues?
- How big the loader is, and how much bigger does ELF programs are compared to the current programs?
- How far would the loader be from being able to link programs with dynamic libraries (and is this something really want looking back on the TI-68k experience)?

Most of the issues remaining are pretty much error checking and bug hunting and fixing.

The loader is roughly 53KB.

Depending on your linker options and program, ELF files are generally many times larger than normal binaries but it's hard to know exactly how much. To give an idea, you normally won't find a ELF file less than 30ish KB. I've seen a 480B program with an equivalent ~50KB ELF file. Weird enough, I've also seen a 53KB program with a 60KB equivalent ELF file.

I've had a thought and I think it's probably better it's made into an optional extra in Ndless since the loader contains a lot of bulk and most users won't be needing ELF files. Thoughts?

I haven't really looked into loading dynamic libraries so I'm unsure of it's complexities right now. It does seem a little messy though (i.e. as mentioned, we could easily run into an equivalent of DLL-hell). I'll take a look into it and see if I can work something out.
Logged
Lionel Debroux
LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
**********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Today at 08:36:08
Date Registered: 17 December, 2009, 09:37:25
Location: France
Posts: 1853

Total Post Ratings: +208

View Profile WWW
« Reply #21 on: 20 January, 2012, 07:54:38 »
0
In my previous post, I forgot to post something along the lines of "nice job". Please accept my apologies Wink

Quote
I've seen a 480B program with an equivalent ~50KB ELF file.
Uh, does this one contain an awful amount of debugging information, or is it just the toolchain going insane ?

The complexity of ELF is the reason why several of us had thought of the much simpler BFLT Smiley

DLL hell can be alleviated by using versioning (in a correct fashion).
« Last Edit: 20 January, 2012, 09:16:49 by Lionel Debroux » Logged
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TILP and TIEmu.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.
Jim Bauwens
Lua! Nspire! Linux!
Editor
LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Today at 00:21:22
Date Registered: 28 February, 2011, 22:32:12
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1733


Total Post Ratings: +180

View Profile WWW
« Reply #22 on: 20 January, 2012, 09:51:03 »
0
Nice to see much progress on it.
I only understand half of what is said, but I can see its something good Cheesy
Logged


TI-Nspire projects of me:
nCreator | PCspire | Klondike Lua | LogoMagic | EEPro for the TI-Nspire | Pegs | General math definitions
tangrs
LV4 Regular (Next: 200)
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Yesterday at 03:13:59
Date Registered: 13 July, 2011, 04:32:25
Location: Australia
Posts: 188

Topic starter
Total Post Ratings: +84

View Profile WWW
« Reply #23 on: 20 January, 2012, 14:34:44 »
0
Quote from: Lionel Debroux on 20 January, 2012, 07:54:38
In my previous post, I forgot to post something along the lines of "nice job". Please accept my apologies Wink

Quote
I've seen a 480B program with an equivalent ~50KB ELF file.
Uh, does this one contain an awful amount of debugging information, or is it just the toolchain going insane ?

The complexity of ELF is the reason why several of us had thought of the much simpler BFLT Smiley

DLL hell can be alleviated by using versioning (in a correct fashion).

Thanks, it's appreciated Smiley

I don't know what's causing that massive ELF file. I'll need to investigate what's hogging all the file size. It does seem an awful lot LOL

I'll look into BFLT - maybe I should channel my energies into writing a BFLT loader instead Big smile

Quote from: jimbauwens on 20 January, 2012, 09:51:03
Nice to see much progress on it.
I only understand half of what is said, but I can see its something good Cheesy

Thanks, but it's nothing really special or anything most users would even want to use Big smile

@ExtendeD, loading shared libraries seem to be a little more complex than I originally thought. It's most likely doable but I'm just wondering about the performance implications of it. I'll have a crack at it some time.
« Last Edit: 20 January, 2012, 14:38:55 by tangrs » Logged
ExtendeD
Coder Of Tomorrow
LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: 17 May, 2013, 08:07:39
Date Registered: 02 January, 2010, 13:03:41
Location: France
Posts: 765

Total Post Ratings: +151

View Profile
« Reply #24 on: 20 January, 2012, 18:52:38 »
0
OK, good luck with this.
Logged
ndlessly - Progress and insights on Ndless
Ndless / Hackspire - Third-party TI-Nspire development
alberthrocks
Coder Of Tomorrow
LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
*
Offline Offline

Last Login: 11 May, 2013, 04:49:27
Date Registered: 01 May, 2010, 16:51:27
Posts: 743

Total Post Ratings: +88

View Profile
« Reply #25 on: 11 February, 2012, 17:58:54 »
0
Any progress on this? ELF support would be very interesting to see on the Nspire! Cheesy
Logged
Alternate "New" IRC post notification bot (Newy) down? Go here to reset it! http://withg.org/albert/cpuhero/

Withgusto Networks Founder and Administrator
Main Server Status: http://withg.org/status/
Backup Server Status: Not available
Backup 2/MC Server Status: http://mc.withg.org/status/

Activity remains limited due to busyness from school et al. Sorry! Sad Feel free to PM, email, or if you know me well enough, FB me if you have a question/concern. Smiley

Don't expect me to be online 24/7 until summer. Contact me via FB if you feel it's urgent.


Proud member of ClrHome!

Spoiler for "My Projects! :D":
Projects:

Computer/Web/IRC Projects:
C______c: 0% done (Doing planning and trying to not forget it Tongue)
A_____m: 40% done (Need to develop a sophisticated process queue, and a pretty web GUI)
AtomBot v3.0: 0% done (Planning stage, may do a litmus test of developer wants in the future)
IdeaFrenzy: 0% done (Planning and trying to not forget it Tongue)
wxWabbitemu: 40% done (NEED MOAR FEATURES Tongue)

Calculator Projects:
M__ C_____ (an A____ _____ clone): 0% done (Need to figure out physics and Axe)
C2I: 0% done (planning, checking the demand for it, and dreaming Tongue)
tangrs
LV4 Regular (Next: 200)
****
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Yesterday at 03:13:59
Date Registered: 13 July, 2011, 04:32:25
Location: Australia
Posts: 188

Topic starter
Total Post Ratings: +84

View Profile WWW
« Reply #26 on: 21 February, 2012, 11:52:59 »
0
Quote from: alberthrocks on 11 February, 2012, 17:58:54
Any progress on this? ELF support would be very interesting to see on the Nspire! Cheesy

The basic loader works on the older 2.1 models but I haven't had a look on how to get it to work on Ndless 3.1 (and take advantage of it's built in file association system). I'll get around to it soon.
Logged
ExtendeD
Coder Of Tomorrow
LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: 17 May, 2013, 08:07:39
Date Registered: 02 January, 2010, 13:03:41
Location: France
Posts: 765

Total Post Ratings: +151

View Profile
« Reply #27 on: 21 February, 2012, 12:11:10 »
0
Good, I'm waiting for it Smiley
Logged
ndlessly - Progress and insights on Ndless
Ndless / Hackspire - Third-party TI-Nspire development
Jim Bauwens
Lua! Nspire! Linux!
Editor
LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Today at 00:21:22
Date Registered: 28 February, 2011, 22:32:12
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1733


Total Post Ratings: +180

View Profile WWW
« Reply #28 on: 21 February, 2012, 22:55:45 »
0
Glad to see you will support Ndless 3.1 Smiley
Logged


TI-Nspire projects of me:
nCreator | PCspire | Klondike Lua | LogoMagic | EEPro for the TI-Nspire | Pegs | General math definitions
Lionel Debroux
LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
**********
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Last Login: Today at 08:36:08
Date Registered: 17 December, 2009, 09:37:25
Location: France
Posts: 1853

Total Post Ratings: +208

View Profile WWW
« Reply #29 on: 22 February, 2012, 21:26:47 »
0
Did you manage to cut down on the size of the massive ELF files ? Smiley
Logged
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TILP and TIEmu.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by EzPortal
Powered by MySQL Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Powered by PHP
Page created in 0.357 seconds with 31 queries.
Skin by DJ Omnimaga edited from SMF default theme with the help of tr1p1ea.
All programs, games and songs avaliable on this website are property of their respective owners.
Best viewed in Opera, Firefox, Chrome and Safari with a resolution of 1024x768 or above.