Lua print restored in OS 3.1

[Scipi]

And the problem is, serial communication definitely has valid uses for classrooms, so by crippling their Lua (intentionally or not) and by fighting native code, they're doubly hurting themselves...

Why do I keep thinking that the only effective way to deal with TI is to hurt them financially such as a boycott on buying new nspires (used is ok because ti doesn't get that money) and pressure on teachers to put the toys away and go back to teaching/learning math again? 

I would rather think that enticing Casio to produce superior products and not doing anything to make them want to lock down their calcs would be a more viable option. Just let TI hurt themselves, really. But that will only happen if there is reason to switch to Casio. Right now the development community is still focused on TI because there are more programs for it, thus more users, thus more programs are developed by said users. It's a cycle that feeds into itself. If, however, Casio developers started cropping up more and released high quality software (which they already do), that coupled with, perhaps, a more powerful calc from Casio could start siphoning off TI's userbase and start its own cycle of growth.

Besides, who says we need to fight TI. We can't really beat them anyways, we're only a minor portion of their profit margins, sadly enough. The best we can do is help Casio grow to surpass TI and not make them dislike us in doing so.

[Dingus]

Besides, who says we need to fight TI. We can't really beat them anyways, we're only a minor portion of their profit margins, sadly enough. The best we can do is help Casio grow to surpass TI and not make them dislike us in doing so.

Dealing effectively with TI  doesn't mean fighting them but you make some good points and I think your analysis of the situation is right on.  It just seems clear to me that because TI doesn't really care about us, give them their wish and stop supporting them with good reviews and by buying their "new" calc's.  Also, it seems that the only people that TI gives a rats ass about is their beloved high school math teachers and since students spend far more time with those teachers than TI possibly can, start pressuring your teacher to teach math not calculator operation, that is, tell your teachers that you want to learn the math and suggest that if it is going to be a calculator class you want to learn how to use the Prizm.  Of course it may not be necessary if the new os due out soon cannot be hacked in which case the migration to Casio will speed up.  We shall see but sooner or later it will happen.  Just my thinking.

[DJ Omnimaga]

A good argument to convince teachers would be to tell them that the TI-Nspire is a major PITA to use, because of the complex interface, mouse and confusing menus compared to standard models like the Prizm or the 84+. Another argument would be that the calc is way too expensive compared to other models (although that doesn't work if they lend calcs). Even if you disagree with my first point, you can still tell them the calc is overly complex compared to others.

I do not think people should boycott TI by stopping TI calc programming or something, especially that it still has the largest userbase for your games, but encouraging people to get a Prizm is a good move.

[Dingus]

A good argument to convince teachers would be to tell them that the TI-Nspire is a major PITA to use, because of the complex interface, mouse and confusing menus compared to standard models like the Prizm or the 84+. Another argument would be that the calc is way too expensive compared to other models (although that doesn't work if they lend calcs). Even if you disagree with my first point, you can still tell them the calc is overly complex compared to others.

I do not think people should boycott TI by stopping TI calc programming or something, especially that it still has the largest userbase for your games, but encouraging people to get a Prizm is a good move.

You are absolutely right that nspire is a pita.  That is the biggest mistake TI made with that design.  They went away from the thing that sold all those 83/84/89 calculators.

  In dealing with the teachers, some don't want to use nspires any way but feel forced into it and those are the ones to go after and support.  They are math oriented and understand the students that want to learn math and not how to use nspires.   I really believe students can make a difference and get some teachers to start using the prism and that in my opinion is good because when TI comes out with a hack proof os (which may be the one due out soon), the nspires will be to limited.     

[DJ Omnimaga]

On the other hand, the Nspire interface feels a bit more familiar with Windows. If they allowed a mouse to be used with the calc it would actually be very awesome. However as it is now, the touchpad is barely responsive and was poorly implemented. I mean Doors CS on the 83+ uses a similar system with selecting stuff with the mouse cursor, but at least the mouse is responsive. Granted, both things got keypad shortcuts, but still...

Also I hate how high they charge for their calcs outside United States and France. Here a TI-Nspire CX, not even the CAS, costs $194.99! I saw the PRIZM and the 83+ for $99.99 a few times and normally the PRIZM is $149.99, the same price as their monochrome 84+.

[cyanophycean314]

Very good job! 

[Dingus]

Also I hate how high they charge for their calcs outside United States and France. Here a TI-Nspire CX, not even the CAS, costs $194.99! I saw the PRIZM and the 83+ for $99.99 a few times and normally the PRIZM is $149.99, the same price as their monochrome 84+.

They sure are greedy bastards!  If I were you I'd skip the nspire.  That's way to much money and with the Prizm at the same price as the b&w TI-84, it's a no brainer.  And if you get the nspire and use the 84 plug in keyboard that's the most expensive 84 that I've ever heard of. 
BTW, Kerm at Cemetech is doing some really awesome stuff.

[Jim Bauwens]

The price is mostly defined by the store that sells it. I've seen prices of a CX quite low, and basically the same as a 84 in that store.
Also, in term of hardware and mathematical features the CX blows the Prizm away.

Also, I personally found quite some of your remarks rude and would have down rated them if I could.
Something that many seen to forget is that the TI-Nspire series are incredible calculators. TI really has done a great job, and they are extremely good for education.
Maybe they don't support the community (which they actually do, every year a bit more and more), but they make excellent calculators which help many students of year again and again.

The only, and also ONLY downside I see is that they keep locking the calculators down. They have given reasons why, and I can understand them. I still think that it's not the correct thing to do (I'm sure Ndless can co-exist with TI), but I also understand there concerns.
I really like my CX, and I never though it was something horrible.

[Chockosta]

I agree with you jimbauwens, even if I would add some downsides to the TI-Nspire CX :
- Some bugs are quite annoying (like when the mouse appears, a weird square is displayed for a few seconds)
- The file explorer is really slow to load
- The text editor is way too slow too
- There is no official on-calc lua script editor

But the Nspire is still better than the prizm, IMHO

[adriweb]

- Some bugs are quite annoying (like when the mouse appears, a weird square is displayed for a few seconds)

That might be fixed in 3.2. I don't remember.
CAS bugs are fixed in 3.2 for the majority

- The file explorer is really slow to load

Yep, when you have a lot of files, it's quite slow to load. I think they should change it to load whenever you open a directory, and not "prefetch"/"precache" all the hierarchy...
HideManager (by Levak) solves that, though.

- The text editor is way too slow too

That's true for long texts indeed. It's completely linked to their crappy internal XML structure... Maybe one day they will make it better...

- There is no official on-calc lua script editor

Well, nope, but it's not really easy to program 'big' things with Lua on-calc anyway (since it's more complex than Basic). LuaCS 2 provides, though, a really awesome editor with Syntax-Coloring, templates, etc.

But the Nspire is still better than the prizm, IMHO

Same for me

[Lionel Debroux]

and they (the Nspires) are extremely good for education.

And they could be even better if they were open development platforms, like the TI-Z80 and the TI-68k series

[Dingus]

and they (the Nspires) are extremely good for education.

And they could be even better if they were open development platforms, like the TI-Z80 and the TI-68k series

Agreed. 

[lkj]

Quote from: Chockosta on Today at 18:01:46
- There is no official on-calc lua script editor
Well, nope, but it's not really easy to program 'big' things with Lua on-calc anyway (since it's more complex than Basic). LuaCS 2 provides, though, a really awesome editor with Syntax-Coloring, templates, etc.

Where can I find that program?

The price is mostly defined by the store that sells it. I've seen prices of a CX quite low, and basically the same as a 84 in that store.
Also, in term of hardware and mathematical features the CX blows the Prizm away.

Also, I personally found quite some of your remarks rude and would have down rated them if I could.
Something that many seen to forget is that the TI-Nspire series are incredible calculators. TI really has done a great job, and they are extremely good for education.
Maybe they don't support the community (which they actually do, every year a bit more and more), but they make excellent calculators which help many students of year again and again.

The only, and also ONLY downside I see is that they keep locking the calculators down. They have given reasons why, and I can understand them. I still think that it's not the correct thing to do (I'm sure Ndless can co-exist with TI), but I also understand there concerns.
I really like my CX, and I never though it was something horrible.

I agree with you that TI has made a great calc with the CX and that some people seem to not see the good things about it. But that they support the community every year a bit more is only half-correct since the z80 and 68k were open for programming in asm and everything, and their strategy to lock their calcs down was new with the nspires.

[DJ Omnimaga]

In any case they need to fix the poorly responsive touchpad, though. Often I move my finger on the touchpad during about 5 seconds before the cursor finally appears, and also when pressing directional keys on the touchpad, if you continue touching the touchpad, you'll continue going in the same direction once you press directional controls again, no matter in which direction you want to go and where your finger is located.

Granted, we can still use keyboard controls, but that still makes things annoying to use sometimes.

[Dingus]

Also, I personally found quite some of your remarks rude and would have down rated them if I could.

Jim, I would like to respectfully make a couple of points.
First, I don't know you and  I've never said any thing negative to you or about you so to make a personal attack on me like that is strange unless you have a personal or business reason for supporting TI that way.   
Second, my experience with TI has been very unsatisfactory so I view them much differently than you apparently do.
Third, I call it the way I see it and you need to understand that attacking the messenger because you don't like the message doesn't change reality one bit.
So have a good day and Btw, do you work for TI?