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Author Topic: I just had a crazy idea...... -  (Read 1072 times) Bookmark and Share
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willrandship
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« on: 27 September, 2010, 17:34:17 »
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The way I understand it.........

Nspire OS->Checksum file
Checksum->encryption
= Os x.x.tno

Tno->Calc
Calc Decrypts Checksum, makes checksum from OS bin.
If match, installs.

Is that about right?

Well, if so, what about this?

We write our own loader for our own OS/progs/whatever that matches the checksum of the boot2/OS bin, then that loads the rest of everything when run!

Thoughts/comments?
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« Reply #1 on: 27 September, 2010, 22:30:47 »
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It depends. Cryptographic hashes were designed to prevent these so-called "collision attacks."
MD5, however, is compromised. It depends on what hashing method TI is using.
It'll be awesome if it turns out to be this easy Grin
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« Reply #2 on: 27 September, 2010, 22:46:38 »
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I don't know how possible it is, but is this what you are saying?

Create our own loader in say 10kb. Then use like 50kb to try to fake the checksum? If that's possible, it would be really cool, maybe if we devoted a few computers to such a feat it would be possible.
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« Reply #3 on: 28 September, 2010, 00:04:06 »
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MD5 is not completely down and out. Besides, I would presume that the nspire might use SHA-1.  Just a theory considering the 1024 bit key.

And Because of the way hashes work, It would be easier to factor the RSA keys then trying to find a match.
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« Reply #4 on: 28 September, 2010, 01:45:32 »
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Is there any way to know which method they used? It would really stink to develop a program to match the checksum of one type, only to have it be completely different from another, and be rejected.
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« Reply #5 on: 02 October, 2010, 17:38:39 »
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any news about this?
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« Reply #6 on: 01 March, 2012, 17:20:09 »
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Quote from: graphmastur on 28 September, 2010, 00:04:06
MD5 is not completely down and out. Besides, I would presume that the nspire might use SHA-1.  Just a theory considering the 1024 bit key.

And Because of the way hashes work, It would be easier to factor the RSA keys then trying to find a match.

MD5 is down and out, as of 2006. SHA-1 isn't quite down and out, but it's struggling.

Insert obligatory "Holy Necropost Fishman" here Cheesy
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« Reply #7 on: 01 March, 2012, 17:31:58 »
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That's one fishy necro! :O How did you happen to stumble onto this again anyways?
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« Reply #8 on: 01 March, 2012, 23:03:56 »
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I was going over some security stuff and I remembered how computationally expensive it was to sign large quantities of data with public key algorithms. It got me thinking about how the Nspire would have to sign an entire OS if it didn't use hash of sorts and...
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« Reply #9 on: 02 March, 2012, 12:16:18 »
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Very interesting Smiley
Got to research some more details.
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« Reply #10 on: 02 March, 2012, 12:22:35 »
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That would be tricky overall, but it would be possible considering we've got ndless already manipulating the OS a bit. So effectively, we would be able to write a different OS (GUI) or shell?
« Last Edit: 02 March, 2012, 12:22:46 by Jonius7 » Logged


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« Reply #11 on: 02 March, 2012, 12:28:58 »
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You can do that now already.
But the thing here is to have an alternative OS working without Ndless, and installed the the flash.
This would give also much more power to the user.
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« Reply #12 on: 02 March, 2012, 12:30:53 »
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Yeah I meant that, an OS independent of programs using the OS.
It would definitely give much more power to the user. But flexibility too.
« Last Edit: 02 March, 2012, 12:31:07 by Jonius7 » Logged


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TI-nspire Hold 'em | Health Bar | Scissors Paper Rock | Battle of 16s (stalled) | sTIck RPG (stalled) | Monopoly (stalled)
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Spoiler for My TI-nspire Basic Programs (Updated 2012/04/15):
***List of Programs in the TI-nspire Stadium***
Group Release 2012/04/07 on omnimaga.org

Games
   Noteable Release    ticalc.org Release Development/Not Publicly Released
2010/05/08 TI-nspire Hold 'em
   2012/04/07 v1.1.2   2012/04/10 v1.1.3  2012/04/14 v1.2.1
2010/08/03 Cosmic Legions
   2012/04/07 v0.2.2.2 (1st Release)
2010/08/12 Battle of 16s
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2010/09/10 Health Bar
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2010/12/04 sTIck RPG
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2011/01/09 Monopoly
   2012/04/07 v0.16    (1st Release)
2012/04/09 Scissors Paper Rock
   2012/04/14 v0.8.1

Miscellaneous
2010/11/07 中文 (Chinese) Demonstration
   2012/04/07 v1.3     (1st Release)

Potential/Minor Programs
2010/09/26 Shanghai Metro
   2012/04/07 v0.2     (1st Release)
2010/12/22 TI-nspire Programming Tutorials
   2012/04/07 v0.1     (1st Release)
2010/12/28 Casino Games
   Was not released.
2011/04/22 Interlink
   2012/04/07 v0.0.4   (1st Release)
2012/03/22 Hierarchy
   2012/04/07 v0.01

Demo Programs (some may become Potential Programs)
2010/06/23 Monopoly (Board)
   2012/04/07 Prototype
2010/07/14 Strategy Battle
   2012/04/07 v0.12
2010/10/05 JRPG
   2012/04/07 v0.2
2010/11/02 PlotGrid
   2012/04/07 v0.2
2010/11/24 civilizaTIon™
   2012/04/07 v0.11

Purely Informational
2011/01/05 TI-nspire Stadium Changelog
   2012/04/07 v2
   Created to list significant releases of my programs. A page similar to this List of Programs in the TI-nspire Stadium was included in the documentation of most of my programs until sometime in Late 2011/Early 2012.

All games and programs coded in TI-nspire Basic.
© 2010-2012 Jason Ho.
Last Updated 14 April 2012

jhgenius01.webs.com
Will be moving! Stay tuned for updates.
Spoiler for Progress of Doodle God Axe:
2011/12/21 4% - Progress Suspended, ideas of graphical sprites still uncertain
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« Reply #13 on: 02 March, 2012, 21:11:13 »
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jimbauwens pointed me to this topic.

Quote
Is there any way to know which method they (TI) used?
The method was publicly documented on Hackspire months before this thread was started Wink
Namely, TI uses SHA256, which is much stronger than SHA-0 or SHA-1, and of course even more stronger than MD5 (used in TI-Z80 and TI-68k series).

Finding a useful cryptographic hash collision would be like winning 10-15 times at the lottery, instead of 20-30 (or 40-60) with TF on the public RSA keys... that's immensely better, but still completely hopeless. Neither method is a usable way to achieve our basic user right, our freedom to tinker with the hardware we own.
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« Reply #14 on: 02 March, 2012, 23:24:18 »
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I have to give TI props, they knew what they were doing this time with the Nspire. Although, being able to generate collisions would in fact give us a method to reinstall the OS because if the hash was sufficiently weak, it would give us the freedom to pick certain parts of the data and then select other sections of data to form a collision (basically a variation of the chosen-prefix attack).

Thanks for pointing out the information. I couldn't find the info on Hackspire Smiley
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