Omnimaga

Calculator Community => Casio Calculators => Topic started by: DJ Omnimaga on December 18, 2010, 04:50:28 am

Title: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 18, 2010, 04:50:28 am
http://cgi.ebay.com/CASIO-FX-CG-10-L-IH-PRIZM-color-Graphing-Calc-FX-CG10-/130460465998?pt=Calculators&hash=item1e600cbb4e#ht_500wt_922

I thought it was being released in Jan 2011? O.O

And there are more:

http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=casio+prizm
http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=m570&_nkw=FX-CG10
http://shop.ebay.ca/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=FX-CG10&_sacat=See-All-Categories
http://shop.ebay.ca/?_from=R40&_npmv=3&_trksid=m570&_nkw=casio+prizm

It seems to be from sellers with high reputation rating. I wonder if this is real, if they got leaked or if they're some sort of prototypes? One seller got over 800, so I kinda have doubts they are prototypes. Some sellers also says it should arrive between Dec 23 and 29 2010. This kinda surprised me. I wonder if everyone should wait?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Munchor on December 18, 2010, 06:35:45 am
It looks like they're selling it earlier than Casio would allow them to do. This happens with games in my country. In some gaming stores, people sell games before the release date, but usually those employees are then fired :S
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 18, 2010, 02:17:22 pm
Yeah that's what I thought. With the Internet, companies hardly have any control on that. X.x

Or maybe they say a default shipping date, but in fact it's Jan 1st. I am really tempted to get one. After all, if it's an unupgradeable prototype, I would still be able to code in BASIC anyway.

Also note that some of these shippers got negative reviews saying they sold items that they didn't even have in stock or ships slowly, so be careful from who you buy something from.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 21, 2010, 11:05:11 pm
As I mentionned on Cemetech and on both IRC channels, For some reasons, it seems like the Casio Prizm is out already. The release timeframe of January 2011 is gone from their website and the calculator appears to be available on their online store at http://www.shopcasio.com/product/4063

At first I thought many Ebay sellers started selling it before the release date, but now I know why that many started selling them. Snake_X caught my attention because he mentions that a local store where he lives already sells them.

I guess that maybe they wanted to release it early to get a few additional sales for Christmas, but I hope it's not rushed either, because like TI, they're not known for bug-free OSes.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 22, 2010, 12:02:57 am
@#$%#$@#$@%$%~!@#@!$ it. I just spent all of my Prizm money paying off my school (#@$#@$ hidden charges) and finishing up Christmas shopping.

 :banghead:

Note that the censored parts are not cursing, but random symbols I felt like typing.

EDIT: I actually want to buy mine in-store and those don't seem to be available yet.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 22, 2010, 03:11:49 am
Ouch sorry to hear. :( I hope you can get some more money soon. And yeah it would be better to buy it in store. Much easier in case it's defective or something, although I wonder if all stores will carry them...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: TIfanx1999 on December 22, 2010, 07:31:43 am
I checked Best Buy this past Friday when I was up at the mall. They didn't have them on the shelves yet. :( I am keeping an eye out though. =)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: calcdude84se on December 22, 2010, 10:14:31 pm
I don't go out too much, so I'm not sure if they're here yet. Haven't seen them in the ads in the newspaper, though.
I'll keep checking :D
On a somewhat related note, I think I'm going to wait before the (non)existence of an SDK is announced before I decide whether or not to buy one.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on December 23, 2010, 03:13:30 am
According to Kerm's post on Cemetech: (http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=128842#128842)

Quote from: Casio
Mr. Mitchell,

Thank you for contacting Casio America. We do not currently have an SDK
available for PRIZM. At this time, I do not know when or if an SDK will
be made available in the future. SDKs for some of our other calculator
models can be obtained through the Casio worldwide educational site at
http://edu.casio.com, so I recommend that you continue to check that
site periodically to see if an SDK for this calculator becomes
available.

We hope that we were able to assist you with your question, and again
thank you for contacting Casio America.


Sal Manfredonia

CASIO AMERICA, INC.
570 Mt. Pleasant Avenue Dover, NJ 07801
973-361-5400 ext: 4339 Fax: 973-537-8972
e-mail: [email protected]
www.casio.com
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 23, 2010, 03:47:38 am
Hmm I hope they just mean they do not have it now and that they are not aware one may be available eventually. It would kinda suck if it didn't have one. It would be ironic, though, considering the calc already have flash app support in the first place (Maybe only Casio will make them?).

That said, SDK or not, this calc will still be more programmable than TI-Nspire BASIC. It has a getkey function, text commands and some drawing commands. Just as long as it's not incredibly slow.

Also maybe it will be hackable.

On a side note, it seems that Casiocalc.org has turned into an anti-game forum in the past year or so. Back in the days, it used to be both development and help, and now it seems most people are against calc games or think it's stupid to play games on calc. That said, I think Ashbad's comment was trollish, though, and I reported it to moderators (along with the response).

http://www.casiocalc.org/?showtopic=4975

Oh well, if Casiocalc.org has turned into TI-Nspire Google Group/Univers TI-Nspire II, then we can easily start our own Casio Prizm dev community.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Munchor on December 23, 2010, 06:34:30 am
I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on December 23, 2010, 06:58:59 am
I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S
Finding a way to run unsigned code might be tricky... Maybe as tricky as the Nspire.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Munchor on December 23, 2010, 07:02:06 am
I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S
Finding a way to run unsigned code might be tricky... Maybe as tricky as the Nspire.

I doubt, I meant the BASIC commands xD To program assembly and C we'll need the SDK, obviously.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on December 23, 2010, 07:43:59 am
Oh, those... Aren't they documented in the manual?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: yunhua98 on December 23, 2010, 10:45:31 am
I wonder if Casio will have emus, because it is unlikely for me to get one anytime soon...  :(
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on December 23, 2010, 10:49:16 am
I wonder if Casio will have emus, because it is unlikely for me to get one anytime soon...  :(
Same here.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 23, 2010, 12:44:24 pm
They announced a trial software but I don't know if it will include an actual emu. Also, their emulators won't run at the same speed as the real calc, I am pretty sure.

Personally I'm getting one even though they do not know if a SDK will come out, because it at least has decent TI-BASIC commands. If it was like the Nspire in the way it's not programmable, has no input/drawing command nor Locate function, I would never bother.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 23, 2010, 03:48:36 pm
I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S

I've already been working on it for quite some time.

I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S
Finding a way to run unsigned code might be tricky... Maybe as tricky as the Nspire.

Doubtful. We will probably have some sort of access to the internal binaries because the Prizm will be viewed as a Flash drive by computers. Actually, let me see if I can do that with a normal flash drive...

EDIT: Yes, it's possible to access the internal binaries of a flash device.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on December 23, 2010, 04:45:34 pm
I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S
Finding a way to run unsigned code might be tricky... Maybe as tricky as the Nspire.

Doubtful. We will probably have some sort of access to the internal binaries because the Prizm will be viewed as a Flash drive by computers. Actually, let me see if I can do that with a normal flash drive...

EDIT: Yes, it's possible to access the internal binaries of a flash device.
Wow. That... is cool.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 25, 2010, 10:10:16 pm
I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible on the Prizm to install an hacked Prizm file (or even backup file) to run assembly programs the same way you do on a TI-73, 82, 85 or 92.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: jnesselr on December 25, 2010, 10:10:48 pm
I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S

I've already been working on it for quite some time.

I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S
Finding a way to run unsigned code might be tricky... Maybe as tricky as the Nspire.

Doubtful. We will probably have some sort of access to the internal binaries because the Prizm will be viewed as a Flash drive by computers. Actually, let me see if I can do that with a normal flash drive...

EDIT: Yes, it's possible to access the internal binaries of a flash device.
How do you even access that? Tutorial? ;-)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 25, 2010, 10:16:17 pm
I think he has been looking for in-depth info about the calc in the doc and some file formats.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: jnesselr on December 25, 2010, 10:17:02 pm
I think he has been looking for in-depth info about the calc in the doc and some file formats.
I'm talking about binaries on a flash drive.  Because that is truly amazing that he can do that.

Also, Dj, congrats on getting 21,100 posts.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 25, 2010, 10:19:14 pm
Ah ok, not sure then X.x

And yeah I noticed I got to 21000 quick. :P (I slowed down lately, though)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: FinaleTI on December 25, 2010, 10:23:36 pm
I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S

I've already been working on it for quite some time.

I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S
Finding a way to run unsigned code might be tricky... Maybe as tricky as the Nspire.

Doubtful. We will probably have some sort of access to the internal binaries because the Prizm will be viewed as a Flash drive by computers. Actually, let me see if I can do that with a normal flash drive...

EDIT: Yes, it's possible to access the internal binaries of a flash device.
How do you even access that? Tutorial? ;-)
^^ This.

Then I could see if I could find anything on my Prizm.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 25, 2010, 10:56:15 pm
In the meantime, FinaleTI, can you try the Casio BASIC equivalent of the following code?

1->A
While 1
If A=1
Then
Change color to red
Else
Change color to yellow
EndIf
Locate 1,1,"HELLO WORLD"
EndWhile

And tell me if you get something close to orange or if it simply blinks?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: jnesselr on December 25, 2010, 11:09:44 pm
This looks interesting. But wouldn't you have to change A back to 1 in there like this:
Code: [Select]
1->A
While 1
If A=1
Then
Change color to red
0->A
Else
Change color to yellow
1->A
EndIf
Locate 1,1,"HELLO WORLD"
EndWhile
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: calc84maniac on December 25, 2010, 11:51:31 pm
If the Prizm is telling the computer that it's a flash drive, it can probably choose which files show up. It doesn't have to grant access to the entire filesystem.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 25, 2010, 11:57:57 pm
I think he has been looking for in-depth info about the calc in the doc and some file formats.
I'm talking about binaries on a flash drive.  Because that is truly amazing that he can do that.

I have been using the information provided by Casio and that's gotten me pretty far. Accessing the binaries on a flash drive is very easy with the proper program, though. You have to use what's known as a disk editor to access them. I use one called HxD (http://mh-nexus.de/en/hxd/) for most of my stuff. After you install the program, you run it as an Administrator and you press the "Open Disk" button. This will bring up a window displaying all of the drives on the computer. You select the proper drive and it opens the entire disk.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: uberspire on December 26, 2010, 02:16:00 am
I guess someone will have to explore the Prizm and make some kind of SDK until the Casio one comes :S
Finding a way to run unsigned code might be tricky... Maybe as tricky as the Nspire.
Since it seems some of you are very interested in programming the Prizm, I'll tell you guys this (I apologize if it's very lengthy):

From disassembling the addins given by Casio, the Prizm uses a SuperH 3 processor, which is what Casio has been using in their products for the last decade (fx-9860, fx-9750GII, Classpad 300, Pocket Viewer, etc.) The addins contain a header 0x7000 bytes long which contains info specific to the addin (appname, icon bitmap, date, version, copy protection, size of addin in bytes, etc.) before the actual binary starts. Addins are loaded into memory offset 0x00300000 (execution starts at 0x00307000). You can confirm this yourself if want using objdump that has been cross compiled for SuperH support (such as GCC targeted for sh-elf). SuperH 3 software manual: http://documentation.renesas.com/eng/products/mpumcu/rej09b0317_sh_3sm.pdf (http://documentation.renesas.com/eng/products/mpumcu/rej09b0317_sh_3sm.pdf)

If someone has the time, it should be easy to crack the header format. The header is about ~28KB, large enough to contain the icon bitmap for the addin. Once someone knows what's the icon dimensions are in pixels, you could probably find it in header by using some hex to RGB viewer.

Hardware wise, it seems pretty similar to the fx-9860G (it seems to be just a fx-9860G with an upgraded color screen and a larger flash chip). From this, I'm guessing the operating system is stored in memory offset 0xA0000000 (Area P2).

You can try asking Casio Japan (not the USA branch, they won't be able to help much since they don't design the calcs) for technical info and questions about an SDK. Someone in the community asked Casio Japan for the USB communication specs and their R&D department nicely gave it us. You can keep bugging Casio Japan to release an SDK, but you have to understand it takes them time to make an SDK since they have to polish up their emulator which the R&D guys use in development, package up a compiler/linker, write manuals, etc. Casio doesn't make any money off SDKs, so I don't think it's their top priority. I think when the fx-9860G came out, Casio didn't release an SDK until a year later IIRC, but hopefully we don't have to wait too long this time for the Prizm. According to Casio's website, they plan to release some trial software at the beginning of next year, so you guys should keep a watch out for that since it might include an emulator.

I'd try to find out more, but I'm too busy right now in college. Hopefully you guys will find everything you need to know in the near future. Happy hackings and Merry Christmas!
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 26, 2010, 02:21:22 am
This looks interesting. But wouldn't you have to change A back to 1 in there like this:
Code: [Select]
1->A
While 1
If A=1
Then
Change color to red
0->A
Else
Change color to yellow
1->A
EndIf
Locate 1,1,"HELLO WORLD"
EndWhile
Oh right, I messed up I think. I wrote that pseudo code pretty fast.

I am really curious if the Prizm will be hackable the same way as a PSP, for example... I also forgot that Casio is japaneese, so I guess it might be a good idea to ask them for more info. I hope they speak english, though. O.O
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 26, 2010, 02:27:18 am
Since it seems some of you are very interested in programming the Prizm, I'll tell you guys this (I apologize if it's very lengthy):

From disassembling the addins given by Casio, the Prizm uses a SuperH 3 processor, which is what Casio has been using in their products for the last decade (fx-9860, fx-9750GII, Classpad 300, Pocket Viewer, etc.) The addins contain a header 0x7000 bytes long which contains info specific to the addin (appname, icon bitmap, date, version, copy protection, size of addin in bytes, etc.) before the actual binary starts. Addins are loaded into memory offset 0x00300000 (execution starts at 0x00307000). You can confirm this yourself if want using objdump that has been cross compiled for SuperH support (such as GCC targeted for sh-elf). SuperH 3 software manual: http://documentation.renesas.com/eng/products/mpumcu/rej09b0317_sh_3sm.pdf (http://documentation.renesas.com/eng/products/mpumcu/rej09b0317_sh_3sm.pdf)

If someone has the time, it should be easy to crack the header format. The header is about ~28KB, large enough to contain the icon bitmap for the addin. Once someone knows what's the icon dimensions are in pixels, you could probably find it in header by using some hex to RGB viewer.
...
You can try asking Casio Japan (not the USA branch, they won't be able to help much since they don't design the calcs) for technical info and questions about an SDK. Someone in the community asked Casio Japan for the USB communication specs and their R&D department nicely gave it us. You can keep bugging Casio Japan to release an SDK, but you have to understand it takes them time to make an SDK since they have to polish up their emulator which the R&D guys use in development, package up a compiler/linker, write manuals, etc. Casio doesn't make any money off SDKs, so I don't think it's their top priority. I think when the fx-9860G came out, Casio didn't release an SDK until a year later IIRC, but hopefully we don't have to wait too long this time for the Prizm. According to Casio's website, they plan to release some trial software at the beginning of next year, so you guys should keep a watch out for that since it might include an emulator.

Yay! More information!

BTW: Kerm has contacted Casio and they have announced that there are currently no [formal] plans to release an SDK.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 26, 2010, 02:28:39 am
Yeah, but keep in mind Kerm contacted the american branch of Casio, not the root Japanese one.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 26, 2010, 02:30:04 am
I don't know Japanese and I don't trust Google Translate.
/me pokes Raylin and everyone else who speaks Japanese  :P
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 26, 2010, 02:36:09 am
Maybe Geno/Genolo on IRC could help. He seems to know a lot of Japanese.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 26, 2010, 02:39:01 am
A random additional question for Kucalc: Where did you get the add-ins?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 26, 2010, 02:39:41 am
Some comes on the calc, pre-installed.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 26, 2010, 02:40:29 am
I really need to get a Prizm...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: z80man on December 26, 2010, 03:09:09 am
I just got my Prizm today. Once the SDK comes out my first project will be a TI-83+ emulator. Is there anyone else working on a similar project for the Prizm?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 26, 2010, 03:12:05 am
An emulator would be quite good. Keep in mind it is an hard project to take on, though, unless you have a lot of experience in programming. Currently, nobody is working on one, though, so I guess you should be fine, once the SDK comes out (or that the calc gets hacked). Maybe some people could be interested in helping, too.

Welcome on the forums by the way!
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: z80man on December 26, 2010, 03:24:13 am
I think the hardest part with making an emulator will not be translating the z80 commands, but accurately writing the rom calls along with reproducing the TI-83+ hardware. My goal is to produce an emulator accurate enough to even be compatible with TI-83+ programs that use grayscale and the linkport.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: uberspire on December 26, 2010, 03:25:34 am
A random additional question for Kucalc: Where did you get the add-ins?
You can download the addins for free as a Guest off Casio's website: https://edu.casio.com/download_service/download/category.php (https://edu.casio.com/download_service/download/category.php). Scroll down to fx-CG Series, check Add-in software, then click Next and you can download them. They have 3 add-ins up right now.

I also forgot that Casio is japaneese, so I guess it might be a good idea to ask them for more info. I hope they speak english, though. O.O
They seem to speak English. Actually, I was searching my email, I still have the email address for Casio HQ. I don't know if the email address still works, it's been about 4 years since I used it to ask them something. I wrote up an email asking about a SDK and if maybe if they would let the community (us) help them out by letting us beta test the SDK (like in the ClassPad days). IIRC, Casio (the French branch) said they would let us beta test the fx-9860G SDK, but they (Japanese branch) just released the SDK a year later skipping beta testing.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 26, 2010, 03:29:12 am
 I think you might be surprised at SH3 Assembly code. It appears to have some oddities that make it different from z80.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on December 26, 2010, 03:30:27 am
I think the hardest part with making an emulator will not be translating the z80 commands, but accurately writing the rom calls along with reproducing the TI-83+ hardware. My goal is to produce an emulator accurate enough to even be compatible with TI-83+ programs that use grayscale and the linkport.
You're saying your emulator isn't going to need a ROM dump of an actual calculator? Wouldn't that be very hard?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 26, 2010, 03:31:41 am
A random additional question for Kucalc: Where did you get the add-ins?
You can download the addins for free as a Guest off Casio's website: https://edu.casio.com/download_service/download/category.php (https://edu.casio.com/download_service/download/category.php). Scroll down to fx-CG Series, check Add-in software, then click Next and you can download them. They have 3 add-ins up right now.

Thanks. I'll look at the icons, since it relates to another project of mine anway. By the way, what Assembler do you use for SH3?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: uberspire on December 26, 2010, 03:43:26 am
@Qwerty.55: You can download a complete SuperH 3 GNU toolchain (which contains GCC, binutils -> assembler, objdump, linker, etc.) from KPIT for free: http://kpitgnutools.com/ (http://kpitgnutools.com/). You have to register though.

In Casio's SDK, they use some proprietary software from Hitachi.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: z80man on December 26, 2010, 03:48:16 am
Yeah it would probaly be better to use a rom dump rather than actually coding the system calls by myself, but emulating the hardware of the TI-83+ such as the lcd screen and linkport will stil be challenging.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 26, 2010, 03:50:41 am
I wish you the best of luck with it  :)

@Kucalc: The header looks very simple and should be no problem for whomever decides to tackle it. I'm mystified by all of that unused space though.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: uberspire on December 26, 2010, 03:55:22 am
IIRC, the header for fx-9860G addins had a couple of spots that were just blank filler just to mess with us.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: fb39ca4 on December 26, 2010, 01:25:12 pm
Yeah it would probaly be better to use a rom dump rather than actually coding the system calls by myself, but emulating the hardware of the TI-83+ such as the lcd screen and linkport will stil be challenging.
If you did code the system calls yourself, though, it would be a big accomplishment, as no other 8x emulator has done that yet.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on December 26, 2010, 02:18:39 pm
IIRC, the header for fx-9860G addins had a couple of spots that were just blank filler just to mess with us.

Yeah, I noticed that in the image formats too. But there's probably a couple of kilobytes of nothing in that header. I mean, 28 KB of data is a lot at the Assembly level.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 26, 2010, 03:56:59 pm
One thing to make sure with an emulator is that it emulates everything correctly. The TI-Nspire 84+ emulator doesn't even do that, even though TI coded it.

I wonder how fast would it be, though...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Munchor on December 26, 2010, 04:33:27 pm
One thing to make sure with an emulator is that it emulates everything correctly. The TI-Nspire 84+ emulator doesn't even do that, even though TI coded it.

I wonder how fast would it be, though...

How long do third-party emulators take to arrive after a calculator is released? A few years? A few weeks?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: z80man on December 26, 2010, 06:28:10 pm
After going over the code of of the add-in apps of the Prizm it seems that the application image data starts at location 0x4000 and ends at 0x6DFE. This just about corresponds to an image size of 62x95 pixels which matches the size of the images on the main menu of the Prizm.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: jnesselr on December 26, 2010, 06:30:16 pm
Whoa, a new user! Do you have a prizm too?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: z80man on December 26, 2010, 06:31:53 pm
Yes I just got one yesterday
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: jnesselr on December 26, 2010, 09:04:16 pm
Yes I just got one yesterday
Very good! You and FinaleTI can tell us how easy it is to program. ;-)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 27, 2010, 04:01:50 pm
One thing to make sure with an emulator is that it emulates everything correctly. The TI-Nspire 84+ emulator doesn't even do that, even though TI coded it.

I wonder how fast would it be, though...

How long do third-party emulators take to arrive after a calculator is released? A few years? A few weeks?
It depends. It can range between one and 7 years. For the 83+, it took 7 years until we get an emulator with flash and grayscale support. VirtualTI came out 1 year after the 83+ arrived, but it did not emulate the archive.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Munchor on December 31, 2010, 10:19:54 am
One thing to make sure with an emulator is that it emulates everything correctly. The TI-Nspire 84+ emulator doesn't even do that, even though TI coded it.

I wonder how fast would it be, though...

How long do third-party emulators take to arrive after a calculator is released? A few years? A few weeks?
It depends. It can range between one and 7 years. For the 83+, it took 7 years until we get an emulator with flash and grayscale support. VirtualTI came out 1 year after the 83+ arrived, but it did not emulate the archive.

Wow, that's quite a lot. I expect a few years for the Prizm too :/
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2010, 08:35:59 pm
Yeah this depends how dedicated the community is, though, into making such software. With the TI-Nspire it took 3 years and the TI-89/92+ 1 year (although it only emulated hardware revision 1)

I'M pretty sure an emulator will be in the works after people figured out how to run assembly on this machine.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on February 07, 2011, 10:13:28 am
I sent an email to Casio (Casio Europe, I think) two days ago, asking when the Prizm will be released in my country (Sweden) and if it supports Asm/C programming. They replied just a few minutes ago:

Quote
Thank you for your interest in our products and your email. Please find below the answer to your question.
 
The sales in Europe ( also in Sweden) has already started. Please refer to below link for availability and dealer list
At the moment the fx-CG10 isn't planned for the european market. Only the fx-CG20 is planned for the european market.
 
http://www.casio-europe.com/se/
 
The Casio calculator have their own programming environment which is a Casio own langunge similar to BASIC. However for the new Graphic calculators like fx-9860G series and ClassPad 3X0 serie there has been a software development kit (SDK) which allowed the user to develop his own add ins in C++. These SDKs are offered by Casio free of charge. At the moment we don't know if such SDK would be available for fx-GCX0 series. We hope so.

I haven't seen the Prizm for sale anywhere in Europe... I hope that what they're saying about it being available is true. We already knew about the SDK situation, but I figured that it wouldn't hurt to ask. Well, at least it's good to see that they said "We hope so." instead of "OH NO GAMES ARE HORRIBLE WE'LL NEVER LET YOU DO THIS OUR CALCS WOULD BE DESTROYED"
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: fxdev on February 07, 2011, 01:57:20 pm
You should visit a nearby store. They seem to sell them earlier. Simon Lothar already got his fx-CG 20... :(
And this was also true with the fx-7400GII. It took an entire month before it was available online!
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 07, 2011, 01:59:09 pm
Wow nice to see it's out. Is it gonna come out in France soon, too, or is it still planned for back-to-school?

Also can anyone remind me of what's the difference between the FX-cg10 and the FX-cg20? All I remember is that one is only available in North America and the other one in Europe.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on February 07, 2011, 02:00:46 pm
The fx-CG20 can transfer certain picture files. That's about it.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on February 07, 2011, 02:01:10 pm
Wow nice to see it's out. Is it gonna come out in France soon, too, or is it still planned for back-to-school?
It should be out in France at the same time as the rest of Europe.
Also can anyone remind me of what's the difference between the FX-cg10 and the FX-cg20? All I remember is that one is only available in North America and the other one in Europe.
The fx-CG10 doesn't support user-edited pictures because if it does it can't be used on tests in USA or something. There's no other difference.

EDIT: Stop ninjaing me, Qwerty D:
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 07, 2011, 02:23:21 pm
Ok, because on TI-BANK it said the Prizm was delayed until the 2nd semester of 2011, then later delayed again until August or September.

And thanks for the info about the cg10. I guess it makes sense (although I wouldn't be surprised if someone could write a tool that supported them. :P)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on February 07, 2011, 02:25:11 pm
Ok, because on TI-BANK it said the Prizm was delayed until the 2nd semester of 2011, then later delayed again until August or September.
It might be delayed for that long in all of Europe... Honestly, I don't know. Casio's release dates are confusing, mainly because they don't exist.
And thanks for the info about the cg10. I guess it makes sense (although I wouldn't be surprised if someone could write a tool that supported them. :P)
I think it's simpler to modify the picture files to make it look like they're provided by Casio.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 07, 2011, 02:31:24 pm
Yeah but not everyone will want to modify the code by hand. Some people would rather get a BMP to casio format converter. :P
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on February 07, 2011, 02:32:59 pm
Yeah but not everyone will want to modify the code by hand. Some people would rather get a BMP to casio format converter. :P
Yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Your idea sounded to me like a calc program that opens the pictures.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on February 07, 2011, 02:34:56 pm
And if I already have such a program...?

J/K. But if anyone needs details on the file format, send me a PM.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: fb39ca4 on February 07, 2011, 04:07:09 pm
I just saw the prizm in the best buy ad in the newspaper yesterday, so it seems like it is in store now.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 15, 2011, 08:03:52 pm
*Update* I checked in my local Best Buy Saturday and they have the Prizm in stock now. I belive it was $127.96, which ends up being $10 less than the TI-84+SE and about $10 more than the regular TI-84. I don't recall the price on the Nspire, but it was probably ~ $149.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 16, 2011, 12:23:52 am
Cool to hear it's spreading. :)

I should go check some stores if they got it too.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on April 04, 2011, 12:10:25 pm
I sent another mail - this time to the Swedish section of Casio, and got a reply. It was a bit more detailed than the previous reply I got.

Swedish:
Quote
Hej *!

Mitt namn är * och jag arbetar med räknare på Casio Scandinavia.

Jag fick din fråga angående vår nya färggrafräknare, fx-CG20. Vi börjar leverera den i mindre kvantiteter i slutet av den här månaden och vi beräknar att den ska finnas väl tillgänglig lagom till skolstarten i höst.

 
 
Priset är ca 1750 SEK inklusive moms men vid skolstart kan priset bli lägre då vi brukar ha skolstartskampanjer.


       
Hör gärna av dig om har fler frågor!

English (translated):
Quote
Hello *!

My name is * and I work with calculators at Casio Scandinavia.

I received your question about our new color graphing calculator, fx-CG20. We're going to start delivering it in small quantities at the end of this month and we're estimating that it will be widely available in time for school start this fall.

 
 
The price is about 1750 SEK including VAT but during school start the price may be lower since we usually have school start campaigns.


       
Please contact us if you have any more questions!
1750 SEK is about USD 275.

I'm tired of Sweden and its late releases and high prices... And it's annoying that calc releases are always timed to fit with the school start! I want a Prizm now so that I can make programs for it for the people who buy it at school start :P

Importing one from the USA costs about as much as buying one here in Sweden. Should I wait until the end of this month and try to get a fx-CG20, or order an fx-CG20 that will arrive in a few weeks? Ordering from the USA might be tricky, but finding one here might also be tricky...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on April 04, 2011, 01:46:04 pm
$275 for a Prizm?   :o

It might be cheaper to try importing an fx-CG20 from Germany than an fx-CG10 from America.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 04, 2011, 01:49:27 pm
Wow and I thought Canada was bad... it's insane, it's even worse than Australia too! I got my Prizm for $139 online with shipping included, but I'm fairly sure where I live, if it's ever sold in Canada it will be between $149.99 and $159.99. That said, it isn't too bad considering a 84+SE here is $176.78.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: mikehill2003 on April 04, 2011, 01:54:41 pm
an 84+SE here is $176.78.
Canadian dollars? Isn't that like 183 USD?

Wow...... And I thought the local collage bookstore charging $190 for a TI-89 Titanium was insane. (I bought mine for $50 used at a second hand store)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 04, 2011, 02:15:50 pm
Yes but stores kept prices as if the canadian dollar was still $0.79 USD, to make extra money.

Over here here are the lowest calc prices:

TI-73: Not sold
TI-83 Plus: $129.99 (Although when school starts it's between $89 and $100)
TI-84 Plus: $149
TI-84 Plus Silver Edition: $177
TI-Nspire: $185 (used to cost $160 then a year later $170... you could tell their sales were poor)
TI-Nspire CAS: Not sold
TI-89 Titanium: $187
Voyage 200: Not sold
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: mikehill2003 on April 04, 2011, 02:25:49 pm
Do they sell the HP-50g in Canada? My TI calcs are okay for basic math, but for a serious calculus course nothing can beat the HP-50g.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: AngelFish on April 04, 2011, 02:27:21 pm
Except an actual computer ;)

Here's something from HP's site:

http://www.hp.com/calculators/resellers/canada.html (http://www.hp.com/calculators/resellers/canada.html)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 04, 2011, 02:29:26 pm
Do they sell the HP-50g in Canada? My TI calcs are okay for basic math, but for a serious calculus course nothing can beat the HP-50g.
Nah they no longer sells HP/Casio calcs. Back in 2002 I remember they had a blue HP graphing calc model I forgot the number of, they also had the CFX-9850G family calcs, the algebra FX and another cheaper casio model. In 2007 they had the $25 Casion FX-9750G but they got discontinued over here.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: mikehill2003 on April 04, 2011, 02:33:43 pm
Quote
Except an actual computer ;)
True, but I've yet to see a class where you can use a laptop on a test.

Quote
Here's something from HP's site:

http://www.hp.com/calculators/resellers/canada.html (http://www.hp.com/calculators/resellers/canada.html)

I didn't see any in-store retailers in Canada there that sell the 50g.

Nah they no longer sells HP/Casio calcs.

Well that explains it. I guess the greedy stores care more about selling lots of crap then selling quality products at a reasonable price, just like in most of the US.

The funny thing about it is that for math it's way better then the TI-89 Titanium (I own both, so I do know) and also $50 cheaper in stores. If only it had a better screen (It's about as bad as the 84+ emu on the nspire).
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 04, 2011, 02:39:35 pm
Yeah in Canada I never saw a retail store that sold them, at least not where I live. I think one reason why is that some people find HP calcs too hard to use. I heard they had a processor that could be clocked even higher than the Nspire. It's a shame it never got as popular...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Ashbad on April 04, 2011, 02:40:57 pm
I think the main reason they're considered harder is because they use RPN notation instead of DAL.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: mikehill2003 on April 04, 2011, 02:44:13 pm
Yeah in Canada I never saw a retail store that sold them, at least not where I live. I think one reason why is that some people find HP calcs too hard to use. I heard they had a processor that could be clocked even higher than the Nspire. It's a shame it never got as popular...

Yeah, it takes a few days to get used to RPN, but once you do, it makes anything else seem tedious and slow. It actually doesn't use RPN by default, but I've yet to meet someone who really knows both and prefers to not use RPN.

As soon as I can get my benchmark to compile properly for the 50g, I'll be able to see if it's more powerful then the nspire. One thing I do know is that it has a LOT less RAM, only 247kb.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 04, 2011, 02:45:46 pm
Yeah, but I heard on the 50G we could disable RPN.

I think another thing is that there's that spiral/endless cycle caused by the large amount of 84+ games and the ease of TI-BASIC on it that causes most people to go with the 84+ instead of other calcs. What could maybe fix that is an emulator for other calcs.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Ashbad on April 04, 2011, 02:46:03 pm
Though, ive heard programming wise, nothing is better supported than HP calcs... If only THEY were the popular ones...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: mikehill2003 on April 04, 2011, 02:48:18 pm
Though, I've heard programming wise, nothing is better supported than HP calcs... If only THEY were the popular ones...

True, at least in my experience. It was a lot easier to make software for the HP-50g then it was for the TI-89, and I'm still trying to figure out the nspire.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 04, 2011, 02:49:01 pm
What about BASIC? I heard the on-calc language was even harder than the 68K TI-BASIC X.x. A lot of people like TI-84 BASIC due to the fact it'S easy to use. By removing that easefullness, you single out a large load of programmers, like the Nspire did.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: mikehill2003 on April 04, 2011, 02:54:23 pm
What about BASIC? I heard the on-calc language was even harder than the 68K TI-BASIC X.x. A lot of people like TI-84 BASIC due to the fact it'S easy to use. By removing that easefullness, you single out a large load of programmers, like the Nspire did.

I'm pretty sure RPL is HP's idea of BASIC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPL_%28programming_language%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPL_%28programming_language%29)

I haven't used it too much, but it isn't really easy to make games on the 50g without using C. It's much more of a tool then the TI calcs. The TI calcs seem to be made for schools and students, hence the pink TI-83s. HP calcs are made more for people who know what they are doing and don't care about much else (which is why there is irda but no wifi, and the lowest-res screen that is still readible), which is kind of sad, because I really prefer RPN.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 04, 2011, 03:16:10 pm
Ah ok, because personally I tried the RPL on the 83+ and never could get it, even if the tutorials were in French. I guess HP calcs are more for a different group of people as you say.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Spyro543 on May 01, 2011, 07:46:02 am
/me wants a Prizm instead of this old useless 9860.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Spyro543 on May 01, 2011, 07:55:19 am
But I don't even know how to program simple collisions. I can't even make a drawing program work correctly.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: thomatos on May 01, 2011, 07:56:25 am
Woops I deleted my message ...

But you still have time to improve, the contest lasts til the end of August !

Edit: The only problem is that you will not have the PRIZM soon  :-\
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: jnesselr on May 01, 2011, 08:25:46 am
BTW, Spyro543, we don't allow double posting in Omnimaga.  Read the rules (link at the top) about when you can double post.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: thomatos on May 01, 2011, 08:30:21 am
It's not his fault, I deleted my message that was between his two messages, sorry :/ !
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 02, 2011, 03:00:16 pm
The 9860G is not close from useless. It's just that fewer developement have been done for this series so far. I'm sure that it would be easy to port Prizm games to the 9860G, although they would be grayscale and at much lower resolution.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: turiqwalrus on May 02, 2011, 04:38:59 pm
it's faster than prizm BASIC and it smells better :P
EDIT: for collision detection in my game-thingy, I stored the map data in a list. Then use a formula like this, with X and Y being your current coordinates and C being the number of columns:
Code: [Select]
If List 1[C(X-1) + Y + 1]=1 and getKey=28(or whatever right is :P)
Then
X+1 -> X
EndIf
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 02, 2011, 04:39:41 pm
Yeah that too. :P

However there is less archive and no color. :P
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: Spyro543 on May 02, 2011, 05:29:18 pm
Well I still want a Prizm or Nspire.

/me stares at a picture of a TI-Nspire with Touchpad. :love:

/me sees that you can get it for $97. :w00t:

/me - he really wants one. :'(
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 02, 2011, 05:31:37 pm
Yeah I agree that one of those would be nice. If you want the TOuchpad, you should try to get it with the 84+ keypad, though, and if it's used on Ebay, I don't think you can request a free 84+ keypad from TI like you would with a brand new calc, because the previous owner might have already done so.

A Prizm would be nice, because it has much more potential for third-party development.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on May 03, 2011, 08:13:02 am
Yeah I agree that one of those would be nice. If you want the TOuchpad, you should try to get it with the 84+ keypad, though, and if it's used on Ebay, I don't think you can request a free 84+ keypad from TI like you would with a brand new calc, because the previous owner might have already done so.
Why would someone buy an Nspire, get an 84+ keypad and sell the calc? What is he going to use the keypad for if he doesn't have a calc?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 12, 2011, 05:40:07 pm
Make extra money from the 84+ keypad. Someone who buys the calc will have to buy the keypad separately.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: z80man on May 13, 2011, 02:19:22 am
Make extra money from the 84+ keypad. Someone who buys the calc will have to buy the keypad separately.
I'd probably spend more money on the 84+ keypad as that's all I'm interested in. :P
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: m1ac4 on May 20, 2011, 08:30:19 am
Anyone else hear anything about this?
http://www.techpoweredmath.com/price-updates-casio-prizm-ti-nspire-cx/ (http://www.techpoweredmath.com/price-updates-casio-prizm-ti-nspire-cx/)
I'd love to see this happen for the Prizm.  It would be a very good marketing strategy, especially seeing how the US economy is doing.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on May 20, 2011, 08:33:03 am
$99? That's epic. TI is making everything too overpriced...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: m1ac4 on May 20, 2011, 09:40:04 am
Prizm + $99 + unrestricted-programming > nSpire CX + $160ish + maximum-security-prison-style-ndless-killing-antiprogramming-whatsoever
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on May 20, 2011, 09:45:20 am
Prizm + $99 + unrestricted-programming > nSpire CX + $160ish + maximum-security-prison-style-ndless-killing-antiprogramming-whatsoever
But the CX is thin and sleek has a terrible touchpad and is nearly impossible to connect to a computer!
(TI is favoring design over functionality, again...)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 23, 2011, 12:05:59 am
Yeah I wish TI at least changed the way linking is done. We shouldn't need to install an extra software anymore to transfer files from a device to a computer.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on May 23, 2011, 01:48:29 am
They probably think that we'll install the Student Software anyway since IT'S THE BEST SOFTWARE EVAR AND YOU CAN WORK ON YOUR HOMEWORK AT HOME LIKE YOU DO IN SCHOOL and it doesn't work on linux
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 25, 2011, 01:04:17 am
Well the linking stuff is done from a different software than the student one, which is called the computer link software, but yeah it sucks about compatibility... :/
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on May 25, 2011, 01:49:29 am
Well the linking stuff is done from a different software than the student one, which is called the computer link software, but yeah it sucks about compatibility... :/
I thought they are currently trying to get rid of the Computer Link Software? It's pretty hard to find on TI's website...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 25, 2011, 02:55:20 pm
Really? Maybe that's a possibility, although I doubt it.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: JosJuice on May 25, 2011, 02:58:45 pm
Well, not really get rid of it, but it's not exactly like they're trying to promote it - it's hard to find.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm already for sale???
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 25, 2011, 03:17:28 pm
Ah ok, I guess they failed at designing their site then X.x. I remember this happened with TI-Connect once.