Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Casio Calculators => Topic started by: Munchor on January 21, 2011, 03:23:59 pm
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I was wondering how the inside of the Casio Prizm looks... Can anyone take a picture of it and post it here?
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http://www.casiocalc.org?s=&showtopic=4975&view=findpost&p=49754 (http://www.casiocalc.org?s=&showtopic=4975&view=findpost&p=49754)
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(http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/2327/93431258.jpg)
Thanks Qwerty.
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I opened my Prizm and it appears you can not get to the lcd due to the way the screen and lcd cables are attached, but you could get to the keyboard if you lift up the main chip. I didn't do this though because I wasn't sure if I would be able to get hem back in.
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I opened my Prizm and it appears you can not get to the lcd due to the way the screen and lcd cables are attached, but you could get to the keyboard if you lift up the main chip. I didn't do this though because I wasn't sure if I would be able to get hem back in.
I have never had the nerve to even think of taking one of my calcs apart. :P
I am sure I would break something! :)
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It turns out that you actually can disassemble everything down to the interconnections, but it's a bit of a pain getting it back together.
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Is it possible to peel back the casing on top of the ram chip because that could reveal how much memory the Prizm really has.
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Not easily. You could try it, but it's plastic, so you'd have to physically scrape it away, risking damage to the chip.
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That looks nice. Maybe someone can eventually find a cheap Prizm somewhere (or a cheaper broken one) and completely disassemble the calc to reveal everything. :P
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That looks nice. Maybe someone can eventually find a cheap Prizm somewhere (or a cheaper broken one) and completely disassemble the calc to reveal everything. :P
That could be mine if I keep on running these "test" programs all the time. :o
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Lol, try to be careful, though. I'm personally not planning to sacrify mine, though, because it took me so long to get it (almost a month shipping time) and I don't know if stores sells it here.
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Is it possible to peel back the casing on top of the ram chip because that could reveal how much memory the Prizm really has.
Huh, are you crazy? O.O
I guess, it is an LP62S16512U-70LLTF chip: http://www.amictechnology.com/pdf/LP62S16512-T.pdf (http://www.amictechnology.com/pdf/LP62S16512-T.pdf)
On an fx-9860G you get the RAM size via syscall 0x0CCB and there is most likely a similar call on the Prizm. Furthermore, by using the legacy 3-pin protocol you will probably be able to request the RAM size, too!
Btw, this is the flash datasheet (S29GL256N10TFI02): http://spansion.com/Support/Datasheets/s29gl-n_00_b8_e.pdf
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That looks nice. Maybe someone can eventually find a cheap Prizm somewhere (or a cheaper broken one) and completely disassemble the calc to reveal everything. :P
That could be mine if I keep on running these "test" programs all the time. :o
More likely mine :P
By the way, did you get anything on the screen when you tried that monte carlo program? I didn't get anything on mine, although I deliberately stayed away from addresses around 0xA000h, because that's where the boot code is located.
Also, did you get to work on that checksum generator?
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For the checksum generator it will work more like an app signer. You provide a hex file and it converts to g3a. Because i'm not expecting anyone to code really large projects as of now, the signer will use the conversion app as its base. I should be able to release the first version of my signer by Wednesday and then later versions will include the ability to import your own bmp's and stuff. I will include the window's binaries along with the source so you can compile it for any system.
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Let me know if you need more info about the .g3p format for an image converter or something. I have some information I still haven't had time to post on the wiki.
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Let me know if you need more info about the .g3p format for an image converter or something. I have some information I still haven't had time to post on the wiki.
Originally the image converter was going to be for menu icons to convert them from 24 bit to 16 bit color, but I forgot about the g3p format. I'll send you a pm if i need any help with those.
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So would an image converter be legal to release or anything? I remember about legal issues potential before, but Casio released no image converter, it seems. :/ Using some images would be nice in BASIC games, actually, although they would most likely take insane amounts of space X.x
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So would an image converter be legal to release or anything? I remember about legal issues potential before, but Casio released no image converter, it seems. :/ Using some images would be nice in BASIC games, actually, although they would most likely take insane amounts of space X.x
I don't see why not. All it does is convert 24 bit bmp to g3p format. Nor does it use any of Casio's code in either the converter or the g3p.
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It's the reverse engineering that I had to do that's borderline illegal. You could argue it either way with different clauses of the DMCA.
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Well Casio's whole marketing point for the Prizm was its ability to display images and then make graphs off of those. Sooner or later they will make an image converter. Actually in an email I got from Casio they hinted that a converter was one of their current projects.
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Ah ok. I hope they release it soon, though, because at the rate at which they are releasing OS updates on their site (the newest OS isn't even online) I doubt that will be anytime soon X.x
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I was wrong with my 1024k of RAM assumption.
This is from Simon Lothar:
HardwareIdentifier: Ly755000
ProcessorIdentifier: RENESAS SH730501
PreprogrammedROMcapacity: 00000000
FlashROMcapacity: 00032768
RAMcapacity: 00002048
OScodeversion: 01.02.0200
OScodeoffset: 00020000
OScodesize: 00012288
Protocolversion: 7.00
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Where do those numbers come from? Analysis of data from the link port?
And um, is that in kilobytes? 32 MB flash, 12 MB OS and 2 MB RAM seems to be just right...
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Yes, it's from the 3pin port and protocol version 7 is (almost) the same as on the fx-9860 series.
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The RAM seems pretty nice. I guess a lot of it is used by the screen and probably buffers. Now if only more was available for the user...
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Did you find though what adresses are mapped to the ram?
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0x08100000h
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New RAM chip guess! ;D
From what I've read at the AMIC website, there seems to be only one that fits the Prizm's needs: A64S06162AG-70F (http://www.amictechnology.com/pdf/A64S06162A.pdf)
Well, provided they still use AMIC chips...
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Hmm, but doesn't the Prizm use only 2Mb. 16Mb could be addressed with 24 bits, but 2Mb is only 21 bits. Either Casio did not use the remaining 14Mb or those are accessed via ram pages.
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It could be possible that they used a RAM chip larger than what they need, considering it must not cost that much anymore. However, that makes me wonder why wouldn't they make the remaining space available to users then...
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Nah, that's actually 16 megabits, not 16 megabytes. This means it's 2 megabytes.
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Oh wait I just saw now, I guess that would make more sense.
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I'm still wondering if 2 megabytes will be enough for some projects. Considering that one screen image takes up a large part of ram. I believe in ram you can only fit about 5 or 6 images without compression.
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Yeah true. However I think 16 bit colors will not be necessary for games under such small res. I posted an image showing the difference once and since the pixels are tiny we barely see it. 256 colors compression should be fine IMHO, plus most 2D sprite-based games will most likely be inspired from SNES games and the like, so automatically they'll not even come close from using all 256 colors.
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Also I found that setting the screen coordinates at one pixel equals a 4x3 block of pixels comes very close to emulating the screen of the 83+. If I end up writing the inevitable 83+ emulator then that is the resolution I will use.
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I see, that's interesting. Hopefully it shouldn't be too hard. Remember that the Prizm is 16:9 ratio instead of 3:2, though, so if you fill the entire screen with the 83+ LCD it will look distorted.
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I see, that's interesting. Hopefully it shouldn't be too hard. Remember that the Prizm is 16:9 ratio instead of 3:2, though, so if you fill the entire screen with the 83+ LCD it will look distorted.
The 4x3 ratio uses up the entire screen horizontally, but leaves a bar at the bottom. That could be used for fps, clock speed, debug info, or some sort of user interface. And this Prizm emulator I have been working on lately really helps me appreciate the simplicity of z80 asm. I am almost certain that an on calc z80 emulator will be a lot easier than an on comp SH3 emulator. :P
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The only things I'd imagine you'd have a problem with are hardware things like paging.
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The only things I'd imagine you'd have a problem with are hardware things like paging.
Well the 83+ writes to the flash pages sequentially. A possible example would be to only reserve a page from the Prizm OS when the 83+ OS passes into a new one.
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I see, that's interesting. Hopefully it shouldn't be too hard. Remember that the Prizm is 16:9 ratio instead of 3:2, though, so if you fill the entire screen with the 83+ LCD it will look distorted.
The 4x3 ratio uses up the entire screen horizontally, but leaves a bar at the bottom. That could be used for fps, clock speed, debug info, or some sort of user interface. And this Prizm emulator I have been working on lately really helps me appreciate the simplicity of z80 asm. I am almost certain that an on calc z80 emulator will be a lot easier than an on comp SH3 emulator. :P
I think a 3x3 ratio would be better - stretched screens can look quite odd.The only things I'd imagine you'd have a problem with are hardware things like paging.
Well the 83+ writes to the flash pages sequentially. A possible example would be to only reserve a page from the Prizm OS when the 83+ OS passes into a new one.
RAM is paged, too.
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I see, that's interesting. Hopefully it shouldn't be too hard. Remember that the Prizm is 16:9 ratio instead of 3:2, though, so if you fill the entire screen with the 83+ LCD it will look distorted.
The 4x3 ratio uses up the entire screen horizontally, but leaves a bar at the bottom. That could be used for fps, clock speed, debug info, or some sort of user interface. And this Prizm emulator I have been working on lately really helps me appreciate the simplicity of z80 asm. I am almost certain that an on calc z80 emulator will be a lot easier than an on comp SH3 emulator. :P
I think a 3x3 ratio would be better - stretched screens can look quite odd.The only things I'd imagine you'd have a problem with are hardware things like paging.
Well the 83+ writes to the flash pages sequentially. A possible example would be to only reserve a page from the Prizm OS when the 83+ OS passes into a new one.
RAM is paged, too.
3x3 will work, but will leave the a large part of the screen unused, but it all depends on how each result looks. For the ram, that can be accomplished by changing offsets depending on which pages are addressable.
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I see, that's interesting. Hopefully it shouldn't be too hard. Remember that the Prizm is 16:9 ratio instead of 3:2, though, so if you fill the entire screen with the 83+ LCD it will look distorted.
The 4x3 ratio uses up the entire screen horizontally, but leaves a bar at the bottom. That could be used for fps, clock speed, debug info, or some sort of user interface. And this Prizm emulator I have been working on lately really helps me appreciate the simplicity of z80 asm. I am almost certain that an on calc z80 emulator will be a lot easier than an on comp SH3 emulator. :P
I see, that's cool, and yeah a z80 emu would be easier I think. I keep hearing that z80 ASM is easier to read and program. (The 8 bit processor issue can be annoying, though)
Couldn't you just allow the user to choose his resolution?
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KermMartian identified them as inductors awhile ago. Given his experience in that area, I'd be inclined to agree with him.
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Are there any backup batteries in this thing?
There's a message in the OS about replacing the backup battery when it gets low but I haven't found one yet.
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Doesn't seem to include one...
The last time they used a backup battery was in 2007. They even removed it from their 2005 models.
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Hmm... I wonder why the OS even addresses a low backup battery issue then.
The message can be found at 0x801094E0 for all those who are interested.
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I noticed newer calcs won't include one, even the TI-Nspire clickpad. It sucks when you change batteries and lose all your stuff in RAM...
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That's what capacitors are for right?
After I learned to make sure that my calc was shut off before taking out batteries I never cleared my ram that way ever again. (Unless for some reason the Nspire clickpad doesn't work that way... I have never actually seen a Nspire :()
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Hmm... I wonder why the OS even addresses a low backup battery issue then.
The message can be found at 0x801094E0 for all those who are interested.
Very probably they reused a lot of source-code of the legacy systems, contaminated by some code pieces, which are not used by the Prizm OS.
BTW: the battery is still monitored using the MPU's AD-Converter channel A.
But the address of ADC_ADDRA is 0xA4610080, hence it is neither a 7705- nor a 7200-register.
The functionality seems to be similar, if not identical compared to the ADC of the 7705/7200.
In legacy systems with backup battery , the ADC-channel C has been used, to monitor the backup-battery.
The Prizm's GetBatteryVoltage syscall shows no signs of accessing channel C.
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Simon, how do you figure out all of this stuff? Do you use Insight?
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@Simon Lothar I have a question. Where do you get this program http://ourl.ca/8207/177640 ???
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This one? http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5610.0;attach=6267
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@Simon Lothar I have a question. Where do you get this program http://ourl.ca/8207/177640 ???
Are you kidding? ???
I wrote it! ;D
To be serious. This version of insight is a toy, written from scratch in assembler. I hope I will soon release the C++ version incl. source and some maybe interesting additional tools (f. i. a syscall library).
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Can you upload a version of the "toy" here, please?
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Simon, how do you figure out all of this stuff? Do you use Insight?
As it is good cybernautical practice (GCP), I made a backup of the OS to my PC and then I started reading it. Sometimes I use insight to verify certain assumptions on-calc.
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Can you upload a version of the "toy" here, please?
Sure. As far as the restrictons of this site allow. Sure. A bit of quality assurance is still to do. I hope this weekend. BTW: you should have the BIN-directory of the old fx-9860 SDK at hand!
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You can actually upload files below your post fine. I think the limit is 4 MB, though. Click "reply" or "quote" and below the text form there is an upload field. You can upload multiple files at once, too.
For the downloads section at http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?action=downloads it currently requires admin approval and 100 posts, although the post limit is most likely gonna be reduced soon.
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@Simon
It would be nice to have a topic to discuss the Insight add-in.
One thing that's missing is some kind of byte or text pattern search.
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Could you also add to the C development tutorial Kristaba started earlier. There isn't enough detail to show how to set up your Prizm coding environment.
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Could you also add to the C development tutorial Kristaba started earlier. There isn't enough detail to show how to set up your Prizm coding environment.
Yes. Good idea. The thread is worth to be continued. I will post my results concerning the G3A-building there.
BTW: I like the mentioning of Andreas B. in this thread. Three years ago, he turned me into the right direction, concerning fx-9860G analysis. One of the most disciplined programmers I ever met. Alas, he's occupied with other things now.
@cfxm
We could include the insight-discussion in the same thread. I will use insight as example code for the SDK-considerations.
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Indeed. I think it might be nice to have a topic about it and also maybe a post somewhere listing every tool available for the ones that won't be in Omnimaga downloads section right now.