Omnimaga

Calculator Community => Discontinued => Major Community Projects => Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth => Topic started by: Zera on May 26, 2009, 10:01:39 pm

Title: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 26, 2009, 10:01:39 pm
EDIT: project discussion relocated
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 26, 2009, 10:05:51 pm
wow didn't knew Lost Legends was still alive! I knew a guy called Liazon was working on it but then he dropped the entire project in September I think. Halifax was working a bit on it too a while before until retiring.

Seeing the ""Shadow over Ragnoth" part of the storyline I assume this will be the new name though? Sounds good imho. I hope this eventually gets finished.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: noahbaby94 on May 26, 2009, 10:10:56 pm
Wow that's amazing.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: simplethinker on May 26, 2009, 10:12:54 pm
It looks great.  And welcome to Omnimaga ;D
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Ti-newb on May 26, 2009, 10:15:42 pm
That games looks really good... I like the art in it especially cause its on a calculator
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: {AP} on May 26, 2009, 10:23:47 pm
Wow, Vera.
That's one HELL of a first post.

Already making me want to just go to ASM...
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: noahbaby94 on May 26, 2009, 10:24:55 pm
Yea I think that does go in the pantheon of epic first posts.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 26, 2009, 10:29:54 pm
same here, this makes me wish I would be able to understand anything more complex than BASIC better x.x. Of course xLIB helps for grayscale but it's still really slow on regular 83+ unless you only use 3 levels. I don't care about graphics when playing a game (altough I'm not too fond of MUD-type games) but such awesome graphics are a big plus in gameplay experience
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: trevmeister66 on May 26, 2009, 10:55:38 pm
wow
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Drak on May 26, 2009, 11:32:23 pm
that is pretty nice.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Halifax on May 27, 2009, 06:50:13 am
Wow, that's good stuff. It's great to see that Lost Legends is still alive.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Galandros on May 27, 2009, 09:30:33 am
wow is that an GB cartridge?

Great screenies. 8o I had the idea of doing a thing like that if I arranged enough courage...
History wouldn't be too hard... I like imaginating histories. But I want to do a RPG with an different and original theme and battle system. I just like to do something unexpected.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Zera on May 27, 2009, 01:22:45 pm
wow didn't knew Lost Legends was still alive!

Yes, sir. I've been working on the project(s) almost every day since I first announced it here. That was well over a year ago.

Quote
I knew a guy called Liazon was working on it but then he dropped the entire project in September I think.

Liazon apparently dropped off the face of the Earth. I've left him up for dead.

Quote
Halifax was working a bit on it too a while before until retiring.

Halifax retired from the scene? That's news to me. I had also left him up for dead. Why does no one notify me of these things?

Quote
Seeing the ""Shadow over Ragnoth" part of the storyline I assume this will be the new name though?

I've considered dropping the whole "Lost Legends" logo, for simply being ashamed that nothing ever happened with the project. I've had two coders mysteriously disappear, and no luck in trying to resurrect this thing from vaporware status. So, I figured I may have better luck if I rebranded it and tried to pass it off as something new.

Quote
I hope this eventually gets finished.

If you really want it to get finished, then find some ASM coders for me. :)

Wow, that's good stuff. It's great to see that Lost Legends is still alive.

Where the hell have you been?! >:(
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 27, 2009, 02:46:07 pm
Well, I think the issue was that Grendel, the project founder, left the scene not long after Halifax, then in Sept Liazon. However this could be why nobody warned you. In fact I was certain they were the only developpers back then. Unfortunately for Liazon it isn't necessarly his fault since he became extremly busy in real life. Fortunately Halifax returned now but I think besides Omnimaga competition he's working on mostly smaller projects now. Unfortunately on forums it's rather common for programmers to suddently vanish off the face of the earth without any warning and without telling anything :S, but I think people just move on and try new stuff sometimes. I personally stopped calc programming from November 2007 until Sept 2008, made a very tiny game, stopped again from Oct 2008 until March 2009. During my inactivity I mostly made music and worked a bit on a PC RPG. It's no help to get angry at these coders as maybe some real life problems happens too, altough if there are none I kinda like to be warned if a programmer decides to leave or something, so I know what's up at least. I was never too fond of team projects because of all this, because if one coder lose interest or motivation for any reason, it takes down the entire project most of the time. Your project, however, might have much more chance, though, because everything is drawn, storyline is complete and almost everything seems planned as well, only coding needs to be done, like with the Grendel guy on the old forums. Unfortunately, though, most people here programs in BASIC including myself or are still rather new at ASM. Iambian and Calc84maniac are the two most experienced ASM coders active on this board, but they all have like 4 projects in the works alerady :(

I admit I didn't really help with the old Lost Legends 1 project with the board closing, though, and it was made even worse with the fact almost nobody really knew why the first board closed since all incidents occured on IRC chat. Afterward I almost felt like taking over the project, altough in my case it would have been TI-BASIC + xLIB and 3 levels of gray instead of 4
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Zera on May 27, 2009, 02:55:46 pm
Well, I think the issue was that Grendel, the project founder, left the scene

I never left the scene. I've been working on this project the entire time. :P
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Galandros on May 27, 2009, 02:58:48 pm
I have very few experience in ASM... And picking such a huge project...

But mostly for curiosity. How is the grayscale done? Uses jim's e or duck's lib?
I played a bit with jim's. :P
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Zera on May 27, 2009, 02:59:58 pm
How is the grayscale done? Uses jim's e or duck's lib?

Jim's.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 27, 2009, 03:04:12 pm
Wait, Zera you are Grendel? Lol stupid myself then x.x

I am surprised, though, because of your IP address and hostmask indicating myself that you are in the States now (on the old board, admins couldn't see members hostmasks, but I remember you told me you lived somewhere else than USA), so I was sure you were a different person lol

Anyway welcome back :)
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Iambian on May 27, 2009, 05:19:51 pm
So, i herd from DJ taht u wood liek a mid-pow3r'd ASM codur.

Uhm... I mean, I'm shamelessly self-advertising myself as a halfway decent coder, in the event that you might need one. On another note, I *could* take a break from CaDan for a while.

If you need help, say something.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Zera on May 27, 2009, 05:22:34 pm
So, i herd from DJ taht u wood liek a mid-pow3r'd ASM codur.

Uhm... I mean, I'm shamelessly self-advertising myself as a halfway decent coder, in the event that you might need one. On another note, I *could* take a break from CaDan for a while.

If you need help, say something.


Hey, you're more than welcome to help. Like I said earlier, I'm still looking for coders. If you think you can handle it, then welcome aboard. :)

I have to warn you, though -- it won't be an easy project. The game has some pretty extensive rules, and I imagine this is going to be very code-intensive.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Halifax on May 27, 2009, 08:27:49 pm
Wow, that's a surprise. (Zera being Grendel.) At any rate, just to fully explain what happened. My laptop finally bricked after 5 years so I was stuck with nothing for about 2 months. All I had was a Power Mac 5 without an internet connection and Irrlicht (a 3D engine) on it. So I began to fool around with that, and when I eventually bought a new laptop, I had moved on from the calculator community. :( But just recently, I eased my way back in.

But anyways, with Iambian is your main coder, you should have no problems.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Zera on May 27, 2009, 08:37:55 pm
Well, I'm glad you're still with us, Halifax. I thought you might have died. :P

It would have been nice if you could have dropped a note on the project page about your technical problems, or your interest in dropping the project. What you do with your time is your prerogative, and you have no obligation to continue work if you can't or are no longer interested. I have no problem with that.

As for Liazon, he's still unaccounted for...
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 27, 2009, 08:57:35 pm
Liazon actually last connect in October 2008, according to my TRillian buddy list. I think he definitively moved on. I know Halifax left developpement not long after the site closing, but unfortunately I couldn't contact you anymore about it and Liazon told me last March you completly left the TI scene too and ventured into different stuff x.x

Personally with Omnimaga staff, I kinda prefer they warn me for example if they are gonna be gone this summer so at least I know what's up when they vanish completly, same if they decide to completly leave. Also, from what I heard somewhere, it is not too safe to leave inactive forum accounts with global moderator priviledges. Even if the old moderator claimed he has a secure password, not everyone has the same view and opinion of what's secure. Abandonned accounts can be used by random wannabees to crack the forums.

EDIT: As for Lost Legends 1, if somehow someone decided to continue it as it was, I still got the french text on my computer somewhere in case the person wouldn't mind also releasing a french version. However, I don't think I still have the data for the other small RPG I was working on with you for a while anymore :(
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: Zera on May 27, 2009, 09:09:57 pm
So, Liazon didn't contact anyone? Well, that's not a good sign. I seriously do wonder if something happened to him...

As for the status of Lost Legends (http://code.google.com/p/lostlegends/), that's pretty much vaporware. If someone wants to salvage the contents of the SVN (http://lostlegends.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/) and take over the project, then be my guest. Maybe they will have better luck getting it developed. As for Lost Legends II, I'm rebranding it to "Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth." The two plots were never related in the first place, so there's no continuity with either game. Lost Legends (I) is just something I'm not fond of revisiting at this point, because I've had so much bad luck trying to get anything done with it. So like I said -- if anyone wants to take over and do something with it, it's theirs. I believe what little code Liazon and Halifax contributed are still in the SVN, along with the rest of the game's resources.
Title: Re: Still alive, but barely kicking...
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 27, 2009, 09:20:33 pm
Well, actually liazon posted back in sept/oct that he was dropping the project, but I don't remember if he posted any contact info. Since he doesn't appear to be on anymore he might have changed contact info or stuff. From what I remember from AIM convos he pretty much moved on in real life. He took like 3 school years into one and it became rather hectic for him to stay in the community anymore.

I see about LL though. So it's kinda like Illusiat calculator series (well... sort off. The 12 first games made from 2001 to 2002 are unrelated to each others as they occur at different times within a 1 million of year span, but the last one that is currently in the works pretty much assembles them all.) and Final Fantasy in some way then. It should be easy to adapt LLII to another game then. Both games had a rather different graphical style too. LL1 was more Dragon Warrior flat-walls style while LL2 had walls with depth like in Final Fantasy series. Both looked nice, though. I hope someone take over eventually.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on May 28, 2009, 12:51:04 pm
So, Liazon didn't contact anyone? Well, that's not a good sign. I seriously do wonder if something happened to him...

As for the status of Lost Legends (http://code.google.com/p/lostlegends/), that's pretty much vaporware. If someone wants to salvage the contents of the SVN (http://lostlegends.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/) and take over the project, then be my guest. Maybe they will have better luck getting it developed. As for Lost Legends II, I'm rebranding it to "Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth." The two plots were never related in the first place, so there's no continuity with either game. Lost Legends (I) is just something I'm not fond of revisiting at this point, because I've had so much bad luck trying to get anything done with it. So like I said -- if anyone wants to take over and do something with it, it's theirs. I believe what little code Liazon and Halifax contributed are still in the SVN, along with the rest of the game's resources.
I will see that. No compromises.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 28, 2009, 03:06:50 pm
I will see that. No compromises.

You want to develop it? I'll add you as a project administrator, if that's the case.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on May 28, 2009, 04:03:48 pm
You want to develop it? I'll add you as a project administrator, if that's the case.
I will see if the game itself interests me and if I have a nail kit (skills) to continue it. (or gain experience as I work on it)

When I have an answer, I will post. For the next weeks I have limited time.
Studying and exams. Also non-TI projects to take care "first" (I am working slowly on them and some TI-BASIC to relax)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 28, 2009, 09:36:38 pm
I've gotten much of the information needed to start the project mentioned at the start of this thread, but I want to also say that I'm having a bit of trouble getting map editor to show the correct tiles. Gives an error about "Tile set could not be located".

Doesn't pose much of a problem, as these things will be ironed out over the coding process. I'd still like to know what I'm actually looking at, though.

Still have to gather my thoughts.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 28, 2009, 10:35:30 pm
I've gotten much of the information needed to start the project mentioned at the start of this thread, but I want to also say that I'm having a bit of trouble getting map editor to show the correct tiles. Gives an error about "Tile set could not be located".

It's a CalcGS bug. Just have the tileset in the same directory as the maps. When you open a map, you may still get the error, but it will still use the currently-selected tileset. (you are opening the tileset first, correct?)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 29, 2009, 12:13:36 pm
I am. It's giving me *something*, but it looks rather "wrong", like tiles were interchanged and transposed or something. On the overworld map, for example, I could identify that a castle was *supposed* to have been there, but it looks like a carefully coded jumble, symptomatic of a damaged tileset. Is there more than one tileset in the package?

On another note, those notes found in the design documentation had best be finalized. I'm creating the data structures that all the weapons and armors are going to be kept in. Lemmie tell ya. It's a LOT of work entering in all that data.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 29, 2009, 03:46:05 pm
I am. It's giving me *something*, but it looks rather "wrong", like tiles were interchanged and transposed or something. On the overworld map, for example, I could identify that a castle was *supposed* to have been there, but it looks like a carefully coded jumble, symptomatic of a damaged tileset. Is there more than one tileset in the package?"

Did you select 16x16 in the tile view? CalcGS specifies 8x8 by default, but this tileset is 16x16. Be sure to specify that so the maps don't look jumbled.

Quote
On another note, those notes found in the design documentation had best be finalized. I'm creating the data structures that all the weapons and armors are going to be kept in. Lemmie tell ya. It's a LOT of work entering in all that data.

Yes, sir. Although, would it be possible to change statistical data after beta-testing? Bear in mind, drawing up statistics for items and enemies based solely on instinct and conjecture may not present the most balanaced gameplay. Once the game is put together, there will need to be a testing period where we can balance out various statistics compared to how the game's difficulty should normally progress. If the enemies I've designed end up being too easy, for example, I may need to edit their HP values, or give them a boost in attack or defense power.

Also, if you have any questions about the notes, or are uncertain about anything, be sure to contact me so I can clear these things up. My notes are probably best understood by me, so I hope they have enough clarity and are elaborate enough for other people to understand.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 29, 2009, 09:48:04 pm
Well, it's not exactly "unchangeable", but the entire layout will be dependent on the stats that are given. It would be okay to alter the already existing stats, but it would be a major pain to, say, add in or take away certain things and objects. Adding in more items shouldn't be much of a problem, since I'll be reserving space for more things like weapons/armors and some of the other material that are to be kept in the inventory.

Hell, I'll be adding a few things in myself, partly for those "hidden goodies" effect, and partly for items to be used in beta testing. You know. uber weapons and armors to get through the game quickly so that the events can be tested without much of a hassle.

I'd plan that after the initial "so it works" testing phase is done, then the difficulty tweaking can be made.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 29, 2009, 10:09:05 pm
As soon as the shovel hits the ground I am willing to move this thread in its own subforum in the RPG projects section, where is located PotterQuest 2
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 29, 2009, 10:44:50 pm
Well, it's not exactly "unchangeable", but the entire layout will be dependent on the stats that are given. It would be okay to alter the already existing stats ...

That's all I needed to know. As long as we can edit statistics to re-balance things, everything else should be in order.

Quote
Hell, I'll be adding a few things in myself, partly for those "hidden goodies" effect, and partly for items to be used in beta testing. You know. uber weapons and armors to get through the game quickly so that the events can be tested without much of a hassle.

I would prefer not to have a bunch of dummied-out stuff in the game. If you just start your party out with max stats and suit them with the game's best items, you should be able to breeze through any of the events without any hassle. If you think it's still necessary, then I hope you understand the rules behind items very well, because they are very specifically designed to prevent imbalances like these. If you put literally every ability on an item, it will become useless versus some (or most) enemies due to damage reduction and defensive properties. The best way to go about it is to leave any sort of elemental attack modifiers out, and exempt your items from belonging to any of the conventional proficiencies. It wouldn't be funny if your uber-sword had its attack power reduced by 80% because that puny goblin was resistant to cold damage! :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 29, 2009, 11:34:34 pm
That's good to know. The data structure chosen for these items won't allow adding any more than 4 modifiers at a time, anyway (since that was the most I've noticed). Though, I can set all the other attributes to their max, so this "sword" will act wonderfully as a piece of armor. I call it the "Eternal Sphere" :P

But, I do understand where you're getting at. The form this game will take is a FlashAPP, so as long as there's space left, there could be more material to add, whether it be extras that can be accessed after the game's beat, or what. No game is complete without replay value.

I guesstimate that this game will span 3 or 4 16kB pages.

(Oh, and I *do* have to thank you for formatting the names of the text and whatnot so that it's easier to code in. Even numbers do wonders on multiples.)

EDIT#WHATEVER: Thanks for the quick fix for the tile viewing. It works great now.
EDIT#INFINITYPLUSONE: You should consider chatting online with me and the other denizens of this forum. Hit the "IRC" button on bar underneath the Omnimaga logo and join when I'm around. You'll see my nick. </shamelesspromotion>
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 30, 2009, 12:03:16 am
Just in case the documentation wasn't very clear on item abilities, let me run this by real quick so I can be sure there's no misunderstanding about it. I feel I organized that section badly, due to limitations with the document's formatting. It was becoming difficult to fit notes about so many abilities on each line of the item descriptions.

There are several different types of abilities associated with each item: base and derived statistical bonuses and penalties, elemental and status modifiers, passive abilities, and character growth gains. So generally, these are four different categories. When you say that you capped the item ability limit to four, I hope that only applies to the passive abilities and not elemental and status modifiers. These should more or less be regarded as special properties, and not abilities within the allocated ability slots. If any of this makes any sense...

The passive abilities are:

{damage reduction versus dragon's breath: 20% - see "Mirror Mail"}
{damage reduction / general: 4-16% - this effect is noted}
attack modifier +1
counterattack
critical-up
regeneration
elemental shell
energy-drain
undead curse
unleashed spell

{bracketed abilities aren't listed on the equip check sub-screen}

Normal damage reduction is listed on the sub-screen as its own stat, and should probably be regarded as such in the data. So, that leaves us with about 9 abilities that should be fit into the "passive abilities" category. (8 that are displayed on the check screen, and 1 hidden)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on May 30, 2009, 09:32:39 am
Zera, I decided to pick LL1.

I am understanding all code so far. All design RPG is well made and easy to understand, indeed. But from your replies with Iambian, mine seems simpler. Misses balancing like Escheron...
It seems all maps are done. And like Iambian, I need to import all objects, texts, events data. I haven't understand how two of the overworlds are connect, yet...

I liked the custom font routines and its set! It makes coding easier for menus.

And I made some work for just motivating me because I wanted to show myself that I am capable of coding ASM, not just read work done. (confusing sentence, I know)

I may restructure source to my needs... And I was thinking of writing the mapper to work in a different way... Myabe less RAM consuming. I need to check this.
You can contact me in this forum (reply or MP) and IRC would be great too.

About the svn, will be (or is) possible to me update it? I have Tortoise installed if that helps. And maybe a new thread should be created for LL1.
I had no problems with Graphics Studio.
I know JavaScript and I will be using it to convert normal text strings to the custom font set. JavaScript is being nifty for development ^^

@Iambian: if you want to reduce flicker too it is very simple: just #define FULLSCREEN. You are using Jim e lib too in Escheron. (in mine it was a version of the lib for apps, so yours must be the same. Note: it says for apps but some routines still use SMC)
I read Jim's code a while ago and understood that defining this causes a change to masks that will make better gray. Why he doesn't use this masks as default? Because he wanted that the package would be compatible to Duck's and so he used same masks. I could say more fancy talk...
@DJ, I don't know if I will be posting about progress of this game... But I could make a brief description (history and gameplay) , pictures, and progress already done by Liazon.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 30, 2009, 09:35:12 am
that would be cool if you picked up the project again Galandros :)

EDIT: Btw http://www.revsoft.org appears to be back up

Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 30, 2009, 10:06:43 am
Zera, I decided to pick LL1.

Go for it. Let me know your e-mail so I can add you as an administrator to the project page. (then you'll be able to commit updates to the SVN) You can PM me your e-mail if you don't want it to be posted here.

If you have any questions, I can answer them. As for the maps, they are divided into blocks -- or screens -- that are explored block by block. The screen scrolls to the next block when you leave the current one, similar to the same style used in Zelda. It's important that the mapper use this method, because all the maps are designed to function this way. (I believe Liazon already finished that code)

Maps aren't directly connected to one another, because you use warp tiles to move from map to map instead. If you step onto a staircase, for instance, you're taken to a different room. (and possibly a different map) If you step onto a village or temple on the world map, you're taken off the world map and transported to that area. It's pretty straightforward.

If you want to start a thread for the project, then you're welcome to do so. You're essentially taking it over altogether, so it's yours to do whatever you want with.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on May 30, 2009, 10:22:09 am
Go for it. Let me know your e-mail so I can add you as an administrator to the project page. (then you'll be able to commit updates to the SVN) You can PM me your e-mail if you don't want it to be posted here.

If you have any questions, I can answer them. As for the maps, they are divided into blocks -- or screens -- that are explored block by block. The screen scrolls to the next block when you leave the current one, similar to the same style used in Zelda. It's important that the mapper use this method, because all the maps are designed to function this way. (I believe Liazon already finished that code)

Maps aren't directly connected to one another, because you use warp tiles to move from map to map instead. If you step onto a staircase, for instance, you're taken to a different room. (and possibly a different map) If you step onto a village or temple on the world map, you're taken off the world map and transported to that area. It's pretty straightforward.

If you want to start a thread for the project, then you're welcome to do so. You're essentially taking it over altogether, so it's yours to do whatever you want with.
I made some time a mail for development. Since it is Omnimaga and I will be using it for software releases, there is no problem. [email protected]

Yeah, I understood already that method of passing. (from code) Still need to understand more deeply the code.
From what it seems Liazon completed the code handling that.  It stills needs to insert data to connect all screens and put the flag to not walkable tiles. (he does nicely with use of compiler operators and defines) I will use this technique. I didn't do any RPG so far and because of that I had different ideas in my mind... But I would use something similar in certain occasions.
If I have any doubts about how to implement events, etc.. I will contact you. ;)

Now it is going to be funny to play RPG games, sometimes I will be thinking how it works in. XD If weren't enough all other thoughts I have about the world.


EDIT:
@DJ I now know the why of that btw.
http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=776
I also dug up some notes about the current state. And confirmed what parts need to be coded.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 30, 2009, 11:23:35 am
Galandros, I added you as a project administrator. Go here (http://code.google.com/p/lostlegends/source/checkout) for instructions on how to configure your SVN client to access the SVN trunk.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 30, 2009, 11:31:32 am
I'm not entirely sure I understood why there needed to be more than four. I guess I would best explain what I have so far with respect to the data structure:

13 bytes is being allocated toward status storage, as indicated in the documentation. In their order:

1 . Who can equip the item and its item type.
2 . Weapon/armor's damage modifier. Signed number from -128 to 127
3 . Listed "defense" stats. Same as above.
4 . "WIS". ""
5 . "HIT" . ""
6 . "EVA". ""
7 . "Modifier" #1
8 . "Modifier" #2
9 . "Modifier" #3
10 . "Modifier" #4
11 . Character gain slot 1
12 . Character gain slot 2
13 . Character gain slot 3

I was under the impression that none of these stats change once the game assembled. But to clarify... The most I've seen under the modifiers section is four entries and those that appeared to have a special listed "effect" has those slots filled up. Some of these slots are unused. To keep the simplicity of these data structures, I decided to lump elemental/status attack , racial attack, elemental/status defense, passive skills, and passive spellcasting into a single category, "modifier". To maintain other specials, I had to add in other modifiers as I saw needed. For example, damage reduction of 2, 4, 8, 10, 12, and 16 percent each have their own modifier code. Any "special" attributes of any item or weapon can obtain its own modifier code. If there aren't enough slots, a *new* modifier code can be created to lump two (or more) modifier codes into it.

When it comes time to actually checking what each one does, some are ignored at certain stages of the battle, since they don't apply. For example, if you're attacking and the engine runs across a modifier used to reduce elemental damage when being attacked, the subroutine knows that it needs not apply and exits promptly back to the main routine for further calculations.

Please don't tell me you can *ADD* any of these modifiers midway through the game. That would complicate matters...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 30, 2009, 11:36:21 am
Don't forget mHP and AGI modifiers, which go with the normal stats. Damage reduction should probably go there, as well. Equipment has those too, but I could only make a trivial mention of them below the columned chart due to document formatting restrictions.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 30, 2009, 12:31:56 pm
Iambian, updated font.

I dummied out those god-awful icons I made a while back for the dynamite and ore, so in the design document's notes, just ignore where those are mentioned and use the key icon in their place.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 30, 2009, 05:32:55 pm
Off-topic note: the inability to add attachments inside private messages is a limitation of the Simplemachines forum software. I don't think the old board on Invisionfree had that either, though.

Inside posts, I think it's trial and error, because sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. It did that since the failed SMF 2.0 upgrade a few weeks ago
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 30, 2009, 11:07:30 pm
I was wondering why I had difficulty with attachments earlier. I got it to work the second time around, though. I had to attach the images to the board because ImageShack is quirky about uploading images that are smaller than 1 KB.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 30, 2009, 11:48:01 pm
A little more propaganda couldn't hurt.

(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/568/partymenu.png) (http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/7773/mapd.png) (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/1263/finale.png)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 30, 2009, 11:50:25 pm
Yeah I am really unsure how to fix it x.x

EDIT: someone posted while replying ^^

Holy shit these looks fucking awesome! I love the world map pic especially
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 30, 2009, 11:58:39 pm
I kinda understood what you meant about the mHP and the Agi modifiers that were sorta left out. I has a solution to it that only slightly changes the data structure that *should* work, but it will limit some options. Since they are so few and far in between, the solution is to add another property that remaps an unused stat (unused modifier or stat change) to the mHP and the AGI. If I were to do that, the item would lose the ability to add to that stat, but then again, it might be worth it. After all, most armors don't have an attack bonus and most weapons don't have have anything to do with defense by themselves.

Though, I've gotta wonder why the "Minerva" is listed twice. One that doesn't modify mHP and one that does.




Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 31, 2009, 12:11:04 am
I kinda understood what you meant about the mHP and the Agi modifiers that were sorta left out. I has a solution to it that only slightly changes the data structure that *should* work, but it will limit some options. Since they are so few and far in between, the solution is to add another property that remaps an unused stat (unused modifier or stat change) to the mHP and the AGI. If I were to do that, the item would lose the ability to add to that stat, but then again, it might be worth it. After all, most armors don't have an attack bonus and most weapons don't have have anything to do with defense by themselves.

I realize these bonuses are few and far. The idea is that certain categories of equipment will influence them, but there are so few items within each specific category. These effects are important to the balance of the game. For instance, heavy armor will always penalize agility, but boost mHP. This distinguishes the category of heavy armor from lighter armor. (along with heavy armor having extensive damage reduction)

If you can be more elaborate about how your structure would work, and what sort of edits I would need to make, I can consider it. Are you suggesting swapping out unused attribute slots for each specific item that affects mHP and AGI?

Quote
Though, I've gotta wonder why the "Minerva" is listed twice. One that doesn't modify mHP and one that does.

Oops, typo. Minerva should add +12 mHP while worn. Just delete the other one from the notes.

EDIT: I see what I did. Minerva is supposed to add +05 AGI and +12 mHP. I just... organized those notes very badly. Just note the bonuses there.

EDIT 2: Also, let me note something about why AGI bonuses are so scarce...

Basically, AGI's main purpose is to influence hit% and evade%, but items already receive direct bonuses for those attributes without affecting base AGI. Base AGI itself just determines things like a character's initiative in battle, their chance of fleeing combat -- or when you pool the party's total AGI together, chances for pre-emptive and ambush attacks. These latter aspects of AGI -- for the sake of balance -- should be difficult to inlfuence. This is why I've kept AGI bonuses so small, and so infrequent. These bonuses aren't negligible, though.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Ti-newb on May 31, 2009, 12:15:19 am
wow... thats 1 heck of a rpg..
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 31, 2009, 12:25:19 am
[...]
If you can be more elaborate about how your structure would work, and what sort of edits I would need to make, I can consider it. Are you suggesting swapping out unused attribute slots for each specific item that affects mHP and AGI?
[...]
I am suggesting that I swap out some unused attributes for the specific items that affect mHP and AGI. This will be done by the addition of a 14th byte to the data structure that determines which byte within the item's data structure is going to be used, instead, for mHP and AGI. I can do both at the same time because I intend on using half a byte, each for mHP and AGI.

In this way, I can, say, change the Minerva's DAM and HIT scores (which appear to not be used) to mHP and AGI by using the last argument to point back to the unused stats. I've noticed one piece of equipment that appears to be using all the stats, so I can also have it point back to the modifiers as well as empty spaces.

On your part, it does not require any editing, but in using this scheme, it would not do well to, for argument's sake, come back to me and decide that the Minerva *should* influence HIT after all.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 31, 2009, 12:49:30 am
All right. I made a few changes to the statistics so you could swap the data out:

            | DAM | DEF | WIS | AGI | HIT | EVA | mHP | DMG. Redux
------------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+------------
Kenpo-gi    | +12 | +10 | *** | +05 | +02 | +04 | n/a |   (n/a)
Dark Shroud | *** | +14 | *** | n/a | +02 | +02 | n/a |   (n/a)
Minerva     | *** | +14 | +12 | +05 | *** | +02 | n/a |     8%
Serpentskin | *** | +16 | *** | n/a | *** | +02 | +08 |   (n/a)
Brigandine  | *** | +14 | *** | n/a | *** | +02 | +12 |    10%
Cuirass     | *** | +20 | *** | -10 | *** | -02 | +20 |    12%
Flame Mail  | *** | +22 | *** | -10 | *** | -02 | +20 |    12%
Mirror Mail | *** | +28 | *** | -10 | *** | -02 | +20 |    16%
Ornate Ring | *** | *** | +08 | +05 | *** | +02 | n/a |   (n/a)
Murasame    | +18 | *** | *** | +05 | +64 | +02 | n/a |   (n/a)
Sylvan Bow  | +14 | -02 | +12 | +05 | +64 | *** | n/a |   (n/a)
Artemis Bow | +22 | *** | +16 | +10 | +64 | -02 | n/a |   (n/a)


I marked empty stat slots with three asterisks to give you an idea of which slots you could swap out. I completely removed the mHP bonus from the Minerva since it had too many statistical features, so now that shouldn't be a problem.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 31, 2009, 09:43:21 pm
Got it. This will be yet another thing that I'll have to keep at the back of my mind when it comes time to programming the battle sequences.

At the moment, I'm going to spend some time putting in most of the textual and statistical data for things like place names and enemies.

EDIT: Under the "bestarium" section, would you further explain what each entry is supposed to mean? I mean, some of it's clear-cut and some of it really isn't. A better explanation of "rank" would be good.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Ti-newb on May 31, 2009, 09:48:54 pm
oh. so this game is being worked on atm?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: noahbaby94 on May 31, 2009, 10:06:09 pm
Yes it is being worked on atm.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 31, 2009, 10:45:10 pm
Got it. This will be yet another thing that I'll have to keep at the back of my mind when it comes time to programming the battle sequences.

At the moment, I'm going to spend some time putting in most of the textual and statistical data for things like place names and enemies.

EDIT: Under the "bestarium" section, would you further explain what each entry is supposed to mean? I mean, some of it's clear-cut and some of it really isn't. A better explanation of "rank" would be good.

Rank serves two purposes:

1.) To limit character growth from fighting the same enemy over and over, or fighting too many weaker enemies.

2.) To give characters experience points in their proficiency merits.

A character's attributes can only be raised to a certain point, depending on the rank of the enemies they're fighting. Each rank level indicates what this limit is:

---------------------------------------------
 1 star -  64 mHP / 32 for normal attributes
 2 star - 128 mHP / 64 for normal attributes
 3 star - 255 mHP / 99 for normal attributes
  n/a   - no growth
---------------------------------------------


So, what this means is that a character can only gain up to 64 mHP by fighting rank-1 enemies. That character would need to start fighting rank-2 and rank-3 enemies in order to increase his or her mHP beyond 64. This prevents the character growth system from being exploited, in that the player can't simply fight weaker enemies over and over to achieve endless status growth.

You understand the basic character growth system, right? Characters will randomly have their status increased after battles, depending on how their equipped items influence that growth. You pair this with the enemy ranks to determine how that growth is limited.

Secondly, each rank translates into experience points for each characters' proficiency merits. Whatever a character has equipped during battle, they gain experience in those proficiencies based on the total rank levels of all the defeated enemies. So if character-A fights a battle against two ruhks, that character gains 4 experience points (because each ruhk is rank-2) in every proficiency that applies to his or her equipped items. Remember -- experience for proficiencies counts down. Each proficiency level will have an experience requirement, like 20, 30, 60, etc. This means you need to gain that much experience (accumulated from defeating enemies based on their ranks) to lower the experience requirement until you finally reach the next proficiency level.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 31, 2009, 11:13:48 pm
Well, Iam, I was going to mention the "undead" attribute, but IRC stopped working for some reason.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 31, 2009, 11:15:48 pm
Well it works fine now. However try to watch how you talk to others. Not everyone got a IQ of 2000 like you do and there's no point in trying to make others who somehow say something that seems to make not sense like retards
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 31, 2009, 11:17:09 pm
Well it works fine now. However try to watch how you talk to others. Not everyone got a IQ of 2000 like you do and there's no point in trying to make others who somehow say something that seems to make not sense like retards

What on Earth are you talking about?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 31, 2009, 11:19:39 pm
your last comment before you got kicked out (about drain magic)

It was rather uncalled for (the way it was put)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on May 31, 2009, 11:24:51 pm
I'm not even sure what you're talking about. You really must have misread something I wrote.

I'm going to stay out of IRC / forums since I really don't have time for this nonsense. Iam, just contact me via PM or e-mail to continue working these details out.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 31, 2009, 11:32:09 pm
I PMed you what I am talking about, altough maybe I misread something.

It's your choice to leave or stay, but if you leave forever just because of one single misunderstanding then you need to grab a dictionary and learn about the verb "forgive"

EDIT: Also be warned that if you force all projects authors to announce progress on another forum instead it doesn't necessarly guarantee that you will get as much feedback on the project. You might have better chances if you announce your project everywhere else in that case
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: skuller972 on June 01, 2009, 07:03:16 pm
did zera quit?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 01, 2009, 11:16:24 pm
unfortunately, yes, I do hope Iambian continues working on the game, though, and announce it here. If not, I am unsure where he will post progress. It would suck if he stopped posting too considering there aren't much place anymore where projects gets this much attention

That said, though, considering how Zera treated me and our entire userbase just for one misunderstanding with me, even if I dont speak english as native language, I would rather not have him around anymore from now on if he changed his mind. It's not the first time he does that.

People need to learn to forgive and understand that misunderstandings can happen. On the internet it's even worse, because emotions aren't transmitted over text and because there are many haters in the world and people taking more and more example on Youtube and 4chan comments, it's even harder to figure out if someone meant something bad or not.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 02, 2009, 07:48:44 pm
Progress continues. A somewhat successful 4 level grayscale routine is now functional. It's not perfect, but it works well enough: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=3wo5vjhw2ou&thumb=5

Btw, the current build simply displays a test screenshot as it would appear in the actual game. Well, you know, because it's actually using the game's engine.

Heh. Bad phrase.

EDIT: As we all well know, the grayscale is better on the actual hardware. You'll still see the rainy/snowy effect because that's just part of how the gray is rendered to the buffer.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: skuller972 on June 02, 2009, 07:52:43 pm
thats hot
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 02, 2009, 07:59:38 pm
Looks nice, I am curious how it looks on calc. On emulators it's hard sometimes to get accurate grayscale

Glad to see more progress too
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on June 02, 2009, 08:00:53 pm
that's pretty epic looking
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: SolusIpse on June 04, 2009, 08:37:24 pm
O.O
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 05, 2009, 11:30:29 pm
Yah. The grayscale does look better on the real calc. Then again, I tried this with my TI-84+SE, so I'm not sure how much that'll differ from an 83+.

On a semi-related note, I completely forgot which thread I was posting in, so ... http://ourl.ca/3390/62975
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 05, 2009, 11:34:42 pm
good to hear, normally it should still look better on real calc than emulator anyway. animated gifs are just not accurate when capturing grayscale stuff. The dark gray gets darker and light gray lighter
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 08, 2009, 11:44:33 pm
Another "advancement" with the project has taken place. Though I won't have a screenshot until a bit later, I have done two things.

(1) The gray buffer is now vertically-aligned and interleaved, so both buffers are together and accessing each byte throughout the entirety of the screen draw consists of only "inc hl". The reason I did it was so I could accelerate the tilemappers.

(2) The text routine is being handled by a 4x4 aligned tilemapper. That has been verified to work so I'm filling it with the text needed to render all in-game text. It turns out that all objects are aligned in this manner, so I can have what I like to call a "textmap". The menu borders are being coded in this way, and has already been demonstrated to work.

The next thing I have to write is the routine that will update the "textmap" so that it will draw both halves of each large character and all 4 tiles for the icons and cursor. It'll work like a text drawing routine, except that it updates the textmap instead of the screen.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 09, 2009, 12:24:43 am
by vertically aligned, will this change the way grayscale is displayed? I mean, for example, will the grayscale scanlines will be vertical, literally? Also was 4x4 tilemapping very hard to implement? Knowing tiles are generally a multiple of 8 for width
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on June 09, 2009, 04:25:05 am
by vertically aligned, will this change the way grayscale is displayed? I mean, for example, will the grayscale scanlines will be vertical, literally? Also was 4x4 tilemapping very hard to implement? Knowing tiles are generally a multiple of 8 for width
Graphics will be displayed as usual. I don't know how it will flicker. Because the interlace now is done vertically scan lines are vertical. I guess yes. But if you manage to get them out, no problem. ;D
Only memory of the graphics is arranged in different manner. It seems in a more efficient way.
Changing from the usual horizontally to vertical aligned is like transposing a matrix. (columns pass to rows and vice-versa)
For example in a 9 pixels square screen. Horizontal aligned looks in memory like: (look at pixels coordinates) (x1,y1 is top left corner)
x1y1,x2y1,x3y1
x1y2,x2y2,x3y2
x1y3,x2y3,x3y3
Vertically:
x1y1,x1y2,x1y3
x2y1,x2y2,x2y3
x3y1,x3y2,x3y3
But the way it is draw to screen will make look the same.

(2) The text routine is being handled by a 4x4 aligned tilemapper. That has been verified to work so I'm filling it with the text needed to render all in-game text. It turns out that all objects are aligned in this manner, so I can have what I like to call a "textmap". The menu borders are being coded in this way, and has already been demonstrated to work.
ASCII map in grey ftw. xD
 Actually, from LL1 I discovered that making a custom font set with menu borders, special symbols (like a hand, sword, bow, etc..) makes things simple and nice.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 09, 2009, 11:26:40 am
well my concern with vertical scanlines (if it's the case) is that maybe flicker will looks more apparent than with diagonal ones. When I worked on Reuben Quest, I tried to have some vertical scanlines once and everything that barely looked flickery seemed to flicker like mad at that point. Of course, maybe if the grayscale is synced properly with the LCD (or the player is allowed to sync it himself, like with Rigview pics) it would still looks good, though
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: SolusIpse on June 09, 2009, 03:17:23 pm
the scanlines result from the masking pattern.  that is, which pixels are displaying the "light" plane and the "dark" plane.  Because of the way the planes and masks are alternating, you get scan lines.  correct me if I'm wrong.  as a result, there might be very little difference in terms of said scanlines.

vertical is good because the default setting for the LCD port is to do the first 8 pixels and then the 8 pixels below (auto increments via columns).  I'm pretty sure you could change it to match horizontally aligned (normal way of setting up a buffer), but iirc every routine (like text and MOST IMPORTANTLY sprite routines) is defaulted to this set up.  

good choice Iambian!  taking a page right out of crash.

Where are the pictures for this game btw?

(2) The text routine is being handled by a 4x4 aligned tilemapper. That has been verified to work so I'm filling it with the text needed to render all in-game text. It turns out that all objects are aligned in this manner, so I can have what I like to call a "textmap". The menu borders are being coded in this way, and has already been demonstrated to work.
ASCII map in grey ftw. xD
 Actually, from LL1 I discovered that making a custom font set with menu borders, special symbols (like a hand, sword, bow, etc..) makes things simple and nice.

That was intelligent design on the part of Zera, inspired by looking at the ROMs of games like original FF
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 09, 2009, 03:52:14 pm
I think the NES FF menu borders were generated the same way too?

As for the pictures Zera took them down from his 1st post cuz he got pissed at me because of a simple misunderstanding. he doesn't know what is forgiveness, so he isn't returning. He said he was planning to move the discussion on another TI forum in retaliation to that as an attack to Omnimaga community too, but he has yet to post anything on another forum and Iambian still update us with coding progress.

To be fair, I wasn't too happy with Zera coming back in the first place, considering he did the same on the old Omnimaga forums and has no respect for the people in communities (he only care about their coding skills, he doesn,t care at all about the people. Once his needs are satisfied, he no longer wants any business with the community members), not to mention I appear to not be the only person to have found some of his posts provocative at times (some on IRC)

Unfortunately, it seems a lot of very good designers or coders, especially those who are more focussing on advanced languages such as ASM, are like this and that kind of person is generally not welcome on Omnimaga (the reason why Omnimaga is mostly populated with BASIC programmers and especially game programmers)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 09, 2009, 07:21:02 pm
To answer a few:

(1) Just because the buffer is vertically aligned has nothing to do with the scanlines. The buffer is always rendered top to bottom, then left to right. As in this scheme, the action of doing so is easier. The same interlacing is performed, albeit with a bit more play with respect to clock cycles. Might have to bump up the interrupt frequency at some point to make the gray look better, but as it stands, the gray is good enough for developmental purposes.

(2) The 4x4 aligned tilemap isn't hard. It's a close enough multiple to 8 to work out wonderfully. In fact, to get the half byte, I have each tile copied on both nibbles to take up the full byte for that line. When it comes time to rendering, a side is selected and masked out to get the appropriate side. The two sides are OR'd to provide a full 8x4 tile and four bytes are written out. The scheme that's used is very time-efficient, but rather bulky (as it uses SP to traverse the mapper, and uses shadow registers).

(3) Somewhat similar to (1), the scanlines *are* still diagonal. That is just how the interlacing routine works.

(4) Related to (2), implementing 4x4, as was previously said, wasn't too hard. The coding was rather straightforward, with some paper notes used to enhance the logic used for masking. The last bug to be fixed before the thing worked perfectly was a logic error between a combination of a null byte and a tile object in the same 8 bit space. One instruction was changed and another was added and that worked out perfectly. Really, the most time consuming part of this 4x4 tilemapper was NOT coding it. It was actually putting in the tile data (which I retried after some point because of some oddities.

Along with the 4x4 tilemapper, the mentioned oddities in (4) relate more to the 4*8 text. (4 wide, 8 high). Each character takes up two tiles but I knew there wasn't enough tiles in 256 to code in the borders, the small text used for box descriptions, the standard A-Z, a-z characters, a few punctuations, and all of the symbols relating to the inventory and status (4 tiles large). I overcame this by noting that some top and bottom halves of characters matched that of others, so I remapped different characters to take advantage of these similarities. The result? I now have just enough space to do the job.

The downside? Since the whole map takes advantage of the symmetry found in the characters, the line height may NOT be changed for any reason whatsoever. These optimizations were absolutely necessary. Also, I don't want to have to recreate both the entire tile bitmaps AND the ASCII character mappings.

After I finish testing out the routines, I'll make the cursor symbol to start and work on a menu system. At first, it's going to consist of just a moving cursor (which is also aligned to the 4x4 tilemap), just to get on and off of the title screen. Then, it'll be integrating the box drawing routine, the text routine, and cursor selection into a mess that roughly equates to my semi-successful menu system I wrote for my much earlier Cellular Automata project. (Don't ask for a link; UTI's download section is DOWN and I don't feel like asking for the file. Ask for it yourself if you're feeling adventurous. They'll probably honor the request.)

EDIT: Screenshot of the dialog box written via textmapper: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=dmlwzkegdz4&thumb=4
Still does not demonstrate the 4x8 text routine yet.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 09, 2009, 08:11:17 pm
love it ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 09, 2009, 08:42:42 pm
So close to a double-post, too. Anyway, the text mappings have been worked out. A few kinks here and there and here we go: http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=jtwxzclhmtw&thumb=4

EDIT: Btw, the reason why I wanted to post that was because getting the text onto the map wasn't exactly what you'd call "trivial". The textmap, too, is vertically aligned [but except] by pairs. What that means is as follows:

Typical map:
x1y1 x2y1 x3y1 x4y1
x1y2 x2y2 x3y2 x4y2
x1y3 x2y3 x3y3 x4y3
x1y4 x2y4 x3y4 x4y4

Map in this scheme:

x1y1 x2y1 x1y2 x2y2
x1y3 x2y3 x1y4 x2y4
x3y1 x4y1 x3y2 x4y2
x3y3 x4y3 x3y4 x4y4


Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on June 09, 2009, 09:07:55 pm
grr, could you host your images on a different site Iambian? my Internet security blocks mediafire.com
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 10, 2009, 12:51:41 am
*sigh*...

I guess for those that can't view mediafire, here's another link: http://flickcabin.com/public/view/33418

To keep this ontopic, I'm gonna be working on a simplistic menu system. Gotta render the cursor, and then do stuff to select what each option should do. Could get messy, but after whatnot, navigating past the title screen (should) be no problem.

Though no details are given, I could manage a standard 3 slot save system and render it using my imagination. Since there's no provisions currently for renaming a character, I could instead opt for a save slot name. And probably render game location. Not entirely sure, but I'll have to get back to Zera on that once I've got something down. As far as name selection is going to go, it'll be sure to push the whole menu system capabilities. That'll be the real test.

On another note, I'm being asked to render an effect for the title screen, and doing so would be totally a pain now that the buffer is vertically aligned. So, I guess I could do something like that after I verify that much of the game works. You know, code the important stuff now. As for the effect, I'm gonna keep my mouth shut and let you see for yourselves whenever I get it running. OMGCLIFFHANGAR :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: necro on June 10, 2009, 02:14:49 am
just a tip, you could get a microsoft skydrive account to upload things to, assuming they aren't massive
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 15, 2009, 10:45:27 pm
Today, I rediscover the pain of writing a tilemapper. If it works out right, then 2/3rds of it has been written. The other 1/3rd is the middle part, used to tie the two together. Hope things work out in this more complicated system.

As for the tilemapper, it's a highly customized 16*8x tilemapper. I say that because the tile width is irrelevant as to how the actual drawing process is done. However, 2*8 is going to be hardcoded within the first 2/3rds of the tilemap.

Wish me luck.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: simplethinker on June 15, 2009, 10:49:28 pm
Good luck :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on June 16, 2009, 04:25:01 am
Good luck. ;)

I have tried to see Dwedit or Jim BW tile mapper and I got lost in the shadow registers. u.u It had no comments or almost.

It is so many things to keep in mind that you loose track of things.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Ti-newb on June 16, 2009, 09:28:07 am
Good luck, although i doubt u'l need it!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 21, 2009, 01:09:05 am
I figured that since Iambian is going to continue posting progress here that this project deserved its own sub-forum, along with Drak's PotterQuest 2 (hoping he finishes it)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on June 21, 2009, 01:11:42 am
Yay! moar subforums XD
good luck btw Iambian
Hmm, this reminds me, I need to bug Drak about his game
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: simplethinker on June 21, 2009, 08:53:38 am
I figured that since Iambian is going to continue posting progress here that this project deserved its own sub-forum, along with Drak's PotterQuest 2 (hoping he finishes it)
So Iambian is so awesome that he didn't even need to apply for this game to be featured?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: {AP} on June 21, 2009, 09:00:15 am
That's about the gist of it, Simplethinker.

Loving how things are coming along, Iambian~
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Ti-newb on June 22, 2009, 11:30:54 am
dude. Iambian is so awsome. i bet he doesn't even need to touch his calc to program it.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: calc84maniac on June 22, 2009, 11:41:16 am
Yeah, he probably uses an emulator instead. :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 22, 2009, 12:07:06 pm
Like tr1p1ea until a while after he stopped working on xLIB. He only had a regular 83 to test Desolate and no 83+, then he got a 84+ but it had a broken screen. He couldn't even play the games on the real thing.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 22, 2009, 11:35:44 pm
Okay. I've run into massive problems with regard to the tilemapper. Simply put, I just don't have the CCs needed to run it without a degradation of grayscale quality, or some serious slowing. Only a few solutions present themselves:

1. Change interrupt scheme. Previously, everything's being run in the interrupt. This could change so that the "main code" would contain the tilemapper

2. Reduce framerate further to fit in the interrupts. This calls for 14FPS and a doubling up of scrolling, so it'll scroll 2 pixels at a time.

3. Restrict this project to the 83+SE/84+(SE) calculators, to take advantage of the 15MHz clock and the spare RAM.

4. Just keep trying again and again to accelerate the tilemapper. Currently, I'm using prerotated tiles with two masks to merge the tiles to achieve horizontal scrolling. The specific logic is the follows: " ld a,(de) \ and b \ xor (hl) \ and c \ xor (hl)" to achieve the sprite. C the logical not(B). Enlightening me on alternative schemes would be of best help. Currently, the tiles are interleaved and the buffer is the same, and is also vertically aligned, so if this was a simply aligned version, it would be a few LDIRs to the buffer.

Help would be appreciated in this respect.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 22, 2009, 11:45:18 pm
mhmm weird x.x, Tr1p1ea had a scrolling tilemapper with grayscale back then but it had lower gs quality IIRC. It's really hard to keep good quality with these LCD drivers.

Personally I wouldn't mind a 15 MHz-only version, though, as long as it runs on WabbitEmu or TI-Nspire
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on June 23, 2009, 03:57:01 am
4. Just keep trying again and again to accelerate the tilemapper. Currently, I'm using prerotated tiles with two masks to merge the tiles to achieve horizontal scrolling. The specific logic is the follows: " ld a,(de) \ and b \ xor (hl) \ and c \ xor (hl)" to achieve the sprite. C the logical not(B). Enlightening me on alternative schemes would be of best help. Currently, the tiles are interleaved and the buffer is the same, and is also vertically aligned, so if this was a simply aligned version, it would be a few LDIRs to the buffer.
Putting that in logic corresponds to: { [ ( (de) and b ) xor (hl) ] and c} xor (hl) ? the two (hl) are the same?
b=~c  then  // ~ means not()
{ [ ( (hl) and b ) xor (hl) ] and not(b) } xor (hl) ?

Now is question of using some logic rules (DeMorgan's Law, for example) *gets philosophy logic papers* And test how well it turns into z80...

EDIT: I will post all substitution rules from logic:
Code: [Select]
DeMorgan's Laws
~(A ^ B)=(~A V ~B)
~(A V B)=(~A V ~B)

Commutativity
(A ^ B) = (B ^ A)
(A V B) = (B V A)

Association
(A ^ (B ^ C)) = ((A ^ B) ^ C)
(A V (B V C)) = ((A V B) V C)

Distribution
(A ^ (B V C)) = ((A ^ B) V (A ^ C))
(A V (B ^ C)) = ((A V B) ^ (A V C))

Double Negation
A = ~~A

Contra position (technical translations are hard :S )
(A -> B) = (~B -> ~A)

Material Implication
(A -> B) = (~A V B)

Material Equivalent
(A <-> B) = ((A -> B) ^ (B -> A)
(A <-> B) = ((A^B)V(~A^~B))

Exportation
((A^B)->C) = (A->(B->C))

Tautology
A = (A V A)
A= (A ^ B)

~ = not()
V = or
^ = and
-> = conditional (I think it doesn't have interest)
<-> = bicondicional (same as above)
Searching things in:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_operator
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Boolean_algebra_topics                    // here look at all connectives topics (especially xor, as know as exclusive or)

Logical rules in images here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_logic
I found there another rule:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/7/c/b7c58c08fc46805ee8364eed49b45a19.png)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/6/3/763857e9fa14ed2585357d2fc32afe8f.png)absorption

One more thing A xor B is like ~(A <-> B)
This topic looked promising but was disappointment: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logic_minimization

Damn, now I really wanted that my BASIC program calculated this things to make sure I am doing substitutions right in the end. I have it but I haven't finished. It is going to be for my cousin. xD
 By hand it takes so much time doing truth tables.

Who is going to read all this stuff? :o  ;D
ENDEDIT:


When you talked about changing buffers stuff, I had an idea that I don't know what could bring in real implementation.
The idea is to make in pairs of two bytes with dark and light layer:
(x1,y1)dark , (x1,y1) light , (x2,y1)dark , (x2,y1)ligh ...

To get the light layer is just inc hl...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: SolusIpse on June 23, 2009, 10:37:24 am
1. Change interrupt scheme. Previously, everything's being run in the interrupt. This could change so that the "main code" would contain the tilemapper

I don't think either tr1p1ea or Jim e or anyone who did gs has ever put the ENTIRE tilemapper into an interrupt.  Jim's (pokemon) mapper couldn't because of the way he implemented gs.  So he went with a modified planeshifter that handles gs tiles.  Otherwise, I'm sure he would have attempted to integrate mapping into the LCD communication like his fastmapper/crashmapper.

tr1p1ea might be for SSB/Mario because he's special ^_^

edit:
what size are the tiles and why do you need masks to merge the prerotated tiles?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 23, 2009, 03:45:08 pm
[...]
When you talked about changing buffers stuff, I had an idea that I don't know what could bring in real implementation.
The idea is to make in pairs of two bytes with dark and light layer:
(x1,y1)dark , (x1,y1) light , (x2,y1)dark , (x2,y1)ligh ...

To get the light layer is just inc hl...
(to prevent the page from getting too long, much stuff was omitted,but the post can still be referenced)

When I say that the gray buffer is interleaved, what is quoted is exactly what I mean. Except that the buffer is also vertically aligned: (x1,y1)dark, (x1,y1)light, (x1,y2)dark, (x1,y2)light, ...

[...]
edit:
what size are the tiles and why do you need masks to merge the prerotated tiles?

The tiles are 16*16, but they'll be treated as 8*16 for the purposes of the tilemapper.
I'm using masks to put together the prerotated tiles to achieve horizontal scrolling. Say that the tileset has been rotated 4 times so far (to provide the illusion of moving to the side 4 pixles). The line of the tile on the left reads  %11011011 and the first line of the tile on the right side reads %01010101. The mask will be %11110000 and after the merge, the byte will read %11010101. I assume there's a faster way?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on June 23, 2009, 04:18:49 pm
(to prevent the page from getting too long, much stuff was omitted,but the post can still be referenced)

When I say that the gray buffer is interleaved, what is quoted is exactly what I mean. Except that the buffer is also vertically aligned: (x1,y1)dark, (x1,y1)light, (x1,y2)dark, (x1,y2)light, ...
Oh I never got what interleaved was. Actually I confused with interlaced?

Vertically aligned also helps the tile mapper, why it still doesn't get fast enough?


In logic I will give a shot when I can. I need Wikipedia pages and I am not the only one at home...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: SolusIpse on June 23, 2009, 08:51:15 pm
[...]
When you talked about changing buffers stuff, I had an idea that I don't know what could bring in real implementation.
The idea is to make in pairs of two bytes with dark and light layer:
(x1,y1)dark , (x1,y1) light , (x2,y1)dark , (x2,y1)ligh ...

To get the light layer is just inc hl...
(to prevent the page from getting too long, much stuff was omitted,but the post can still be referenced)

When I say that the gray buffer is interleaved, what is quoted is exactly what I mean. Except that the buffer is also vertically aligned: (x1,y1)dark, (x1,y1)light, (x1,y2)dark, (x1,y2)light, ...
that actually sounds like a ridiculously good idea afaik.  in practice it's probably hard to implement

Quote
[...]
edit:
what size are the tiles and why do you need masks to merge the prerotated tiles?

The tiles are 16*16, but they'll be treated as 8*16 for the purposes of the tilemapper.
I'm using masks to put together the prerotated tiles to achieve horizontal scrolling. Say that the tileset has been rotated 4 times so far (to provide the illusion of moving to the side 4 pixles). The line of the tile on the left reads  %11011011 and the first line of the tile on the right side reads %01010101. The mask will be %11110000 and after the merge, the byte will read %11010101. I assume there's a faster way?
i can't imagine a messuptiles being faster.  are you storing the pieces into a buffer? like are you buffering the pieces before the merge?  i'm guessing you're not building every combination on the fly?

if you can get prerotation such that it's stored in a buffer where each tile is 3 bytes wide (left, middle, right byte of the rotated 2 bytes), you can just grab pieces as needed.  i'm still a bit confused as to what you mean by prerotation.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 23, 2009, 10:20:15 pm
calc84maniac gave me some help with the tilemapper. It might be possible to do the thing on the 83+ calcs after all, but I'll still need to run through the timings given the idea he gave me. The idea he gave came right out of Project M, but the main difference is that the vertically-aligned buffer looks like it'll be a liability after all. Maybe.

Time will tell.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 24, 2009, 12:18:29 am
I hope it works out :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 01, 2009, 01:47:23 pm
Though the help was decent, I decided not to use it after all. His scheme seems to work a bit better for a(n) horizontally-aligned buffer and... I decided that this should be a project that would work better on them 15MHz calcs.

The result? I have attached to this post an animated screenshot of the tilemapper in its basic stages. It inherently handles smoothscrolling, but I didn't write any code that would take advantage of it yet. Reason being that I need to verify that all the maps are in place before I add any enhancements like that. That, and doing it by blocks just makes it faster to scan through the map to view any possible defects.

The hardest part was getting the routine to conform to the grayscale interlace method, since I wrote the tilemapper to interact directly with the LCD as though it was its own LCD writing routine. The problem behind that is that it only works well on the 15MHz calcs, for which this routine was designed.

For the moment, the whole thing still functions on the old TI-83 Plus, albeit in poorer quality.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: simplethinker on July 01, 2009, 01:57:25 pm
It looks great ;D Is the buffer still vertically aligned and interleaved?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 01, 2009, 02:17:22 pm
It looks great ;D Is the buffer still vertically aligned and interleaved?
Sho enuff, it be. :P
And when I said it would be of poorer quality on the TI-83 Plus, I base the observation on the difference Wabbitemu produced (the screenshot, with an 83+SE ROM), and PindurTI (needless to say). Wabbitemu looked GREAT while PTI looked like it would suck horribly.

inb4 can't compare two emulators. On PTI, the title screen, which used just the LCD writing routine to simulate grayscale, it looked PERFECT on that, too. The comparison is valid when both emus are capable of making perfect grayscale when the only thing that has changed was the tilemapper.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: SolusIpse on July 01, 2009, 07:14:41 pm
CoBB stopped PTI dev a long time ago didn't he because there was an inherent bug?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 01, 2009, 07:28:17 pm
I don't remember why. I think it was because of the bug causing files with the Archive flag turned ON to give transmission error
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 02, 2009, 04:06:36 pm
So, I ripped a few hairs out while doing this stunt. Spent time relocating the loaded to another page of the app, where the tiles and the tilemap will reside. Had a few problems formatting CalcGS output to the scheme I'm using (which almost drove me insane), and a less annoying alignment bug that was squashed faster than any of the failed interleave cycles I did trying to get the mess to work.

Result? See in the screenshot. Zera, with whom I remain in contact for the project, couldn't be happier with the result.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 02, 2009, 04:33:20 pm
darn, so friggin nice looking. Nice job so far Iambian (and Zera)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: noahbaby94 on July 02, 2009, 05:01:32 pm
Wow that's quite impressive.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on July 02, 2009, 05:54:15 pm
oh wow! that's really cool!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: simplethinker on July 03, 2009, 11:16:11 am
It looks awesome!  Have you finally finished with the tilemapper?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Raylin on July 04, 2009, 05:17:30 pm
JESUS! What kind of epic magic have you cast now?
The screenshot's spell... IT COMPELS ME!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 05, 2009, 08:33:15 am
Zera has notified me that there appears to be problems with regards to rotated tiles. While in some cases, this didn't affect much, there was a subtle aesthetic problem that should be remedied in a few. This was revealed after I gave him a binary of the project thus far. So, I've asked him to recompose the maps given the extra data needed.

On another note, the number of maps and the data with them is HUEG. After a day of this, I grew tired of manually compressing each map, knowing that it wasn't exactly perfect. I owed it to myself to somehow automate the process. Hello, mIRC scripting :P
Still, I'm not sure it would be enough without some cross-page magick. 13 maps down eating up 4K and another 20 or so maps to go with 3K left. Maybe? I'll let ya all know about it later.

As far as what these maps look like? I decline to say much more at the moment, as we're fearful of releasing too many "spoilers". By the time the next screenshot is released, it'll has smoothscrolling and some decent collision detection. Show you a town or two.

---
On a related note, now that I've bound the movement to direct keypad reads instead of the simulated getkey routine, I've noted that the tilemap's speed is too fast to comfortably sit through while testing. Sooner or later, I'm gonna have to write code to take advantage of the routine's scroller. Well. It'll make it better by enough to sit through it without having to tap my keyboard. It went from tapping the keyboard to increase the speed to tapping the keyboard to slow it down. Strange, eh?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 05, 2009, 09:55:40 am
mhmm nice idea (the mirc script) :D, for Illusiat 13, when making maps (ASCII in my case), I often run into the issue of having to fill an entire map with mostly a character that takes a long while to access (usually CATALOG then scrolling down a lot after pressing Z or up after pressing A). What I did is that I made a small program where I select the char I want (stored in a string when program starts) then either press 2nd or ALPHA. If I press 2nd then it does "For(Z,1,7:Ans+Ans:End" to create a 128 char long string, else it just create a string of 1 character. This speeds up the process of creating maps considerably.

As for the maps themselves, if Zera didn't change anything to the original Lost Legend 2 content, then I am afraid some of them are alerady avaliable to the public for those who know the URL of the old Omnimaga images folder :P (back in 2007, he posted a bunch of them on the old board). The same place where I found that ROL4ever screenshot
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Silver Shadow on July 05, 2009, 02:26:37 pm
PLZPLZPLZPLZPLZPLZPLZPLZPLZ I'm begging you, PLZ make it compatible with the slower 83+! PLZ!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 05, 2009, 05:04:21 pm
from what I can guess, it will be, but I think with much slower framerate or much crappier grayscale. Personally, given that some people are alerady used to slow framerate in RPGs (since most are written in BASIC), I don't think they should mind if a RPG in ASM had 3 frames per second when walking if it has a lot of offer and is grayscale. This is no to mention that it's just a calculator, after all.

Also 3 fps means that when walking around you move 3 tiles per seconds. In most RPGs from the late '80s and early '90s, you walk at like 2.5 tiles a second. Basically, you would still walk around at the same speed, if not faster than a real Gameboy RPG, you would just have no smooth scrolling
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 05, 2009, 09:56:25 pm
The game still works (and will continue to work) for the TI-83 Plus. It just won't run as great because the grayscale timings were designed to work on an 83+SE / 84+(SE). The tilemapper isn't *that* much slower so you'll get circa 16FPS as opposed to the 23FPS you'd be getting with a fully compatible calculator.

On a side note, I ended up using cross-page magick and I've found that that all the maps in the game (roughly 40) total up to around 13KB in its compressed state. I'll have to redo the first 24 (which shouldn't take very long) because of changes that were made.

Now, what if the maps weren't compressed? First, let's talk about what actually *is* compressing them. It's just a modified form of RLE, so don't get your hopes up that I used some fancy pants algorithmathingamajig. The only modification is that the flag "byte" was merged with the tile as bit 7. Since there are less than 128 tiles, I can do this. Cuts runs from 3 to 2 bytes when used. Now, if the maps weren't compressed, the thing would take up around 23KB. Not bad, eh? I has spare room for MOAR stuffs :P

Oh, and mIRC rules. Even if it's not used for any chatting purposes.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 06, 2009, 09:46:53 pm
Sorry for the double-post, but I think this screenshot might be worth of it. Got smoothscrolling to work, though Wabbitemu makes it scroll faster than it should. Is it because of the emulator, or is it because the 83+SE interrupts are just that much faster?

btw, this is actual smoothscrolling. x1 speed. The screenshot might chop it up a bit, but it's actual speed on the emu.

EDIT: Swapped out the screenshot with something better.
EDIT2: Looks better in Firefox. Google Chrome just isn't doing it.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 06, 2009, 09:59:36 pm
wow this looks so friggin nice, I really can't wait to see that in action on a real calc :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on July 06, 2009, 11:09:48 pm
wow that looks amazing!! you've got some epic looking sprites
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: simplethinker on July 07, 2009, 10:28:13 am
Wow.  Great work! ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 18, 2009, 10:04:22 pm
OOookay. So, here's yet another screenshot that goes along with the game's progress. Keep in mind that the dev team logo is subject to change, but I don't think we'll really change it. It kinda looks cool. Also, this screenshot is a friendly 9-10FPS for those web browsers that don't want to show it at any higher frame rate. The game actually runs pretty smoothly. This time, it demonstrates a few more effects and a text box thingamajig (OMG, Chrome doesn't mark that "word" misspelled?) along with a simple demo of the menu system (basically choosing one of the two options). If you're a fast reader, you might be able to catch what the Dev Team rep (me) is saying.

Also, I shouldn't be really showing you this, since the screenshot includes maps not meant for your beady little eyes quite yet. But, I *do* cycle through them so that you'll see the one that I am authorized to show: the overworld map. Also, the grayscale is completely broken during map loading. This is no accident. Between map switches, the screen either goes white or is blanked out with a contrast effect.

Speaking of contrast effect, Wabbitemu doesn't want to show it in the screenshot, which is why I skipped past the first effect (which is the reason why it took a little longer than "usual" to get from background to actual title screen).

EDIT: The portrait insert for the message detailing that the save/load doesn't work quite yet isn't exactly game canon, but me and Zera decided (AFTER I "made" it) that it'll go great in the game's Dev Room whenever you try to speak to anyone in there.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on July 18, 2009, 10:10:10 pm
wow, this is looking great! gif capturing errors and all
good job Iambian!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: JoeyBelgier on July 18, 2009, 10:11:44 pm
castle stuff is pretty =D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 22, 2009, 07:43:21 pm
Lol Anon pic as text box portrait :P

but looks very nice
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 29, 2009, 12:42:15 pm
No new screenshots, but I will explain what I've done in the meantime, and what still needs to be done at the moment.

I've been having problems writing a masked unaligned sprite routine. The mask is being extracted from the dark gray layer. I've written some logic that I hope will work out, but the whole thing needs to be put together in such a way that something can be demonstrated. At least enough to replace the "dedicated black box" with something nicer.

I've added in an scrolling intro thingie for "New Game". That's to kick off the events leading up to you being able to gain control of your character at some point after the opening sequences. A screenshot will be released only when I get up to that down. If you're on IRC, you may get to see preliminary screenies.

Also, the format of the textboxes are also going to be changed. Slightly smaller to take advantage of the windowing effect that the text system uses. Other stuff, I'm still discussing.

Also, I updated some of the maps to make use of an extra tile that remained unused (tile 127). The effect sets some maps apart from the others, so there will be some variety in the game.

Uhm. I feel like I'm forgetting something.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 29, 2009, 12:56:49 pm
You forgot to add nethams


er I mean, glad to see more progress :)

Could you explain the difference between regular text and text windowing effect? Maybe that would take a screenshot for that, though, as I am more visual, so I might need to wait a bit more.  x.x

For tile 127, do you just means it separates each maps? Or is it like for certain maps so they have something different that occurs on them like an event or something?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 29, 2009, 05:41:49 pm
There were some empty spots in the tileset below 127, so I told him that he could use tiles up to 127, but he neglected to count starting at zero, so he thought he could only have 127, when I needed no more than 128. The edit he did just added a tile and updated a couple of the maps to use that extra tile. Previously, it was another tile because he thought there just wasn't enough space to do it.

The tileset, uncompressed, still takes up 8K by itself. Around 6KB compressed.

And as far as "windowing", he just wanted it to make it clear to the player that the textboxes are "windows" instead of just cheap-ass rendering things stuck at the far edges of the maps. I haven't written anything that would demonstrate it, but the system that I've written can be easily changed to accommodate what Zera wants. The text itself remains the same. It's just the "box" that it goes in. What is being talked about is the box. I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear. I was kinda sleepy when I made that last post. I still *am* sleepy >.<

I like Nethams. It's all lobstery goodness. When the lobster bisque is done, maybe we can talk about how I should reverse the order of my response since it doesn't correspond to the questions you've put forth. Or... enjoy the lobstery goodness. It's all up to you. All you gotta do is choose your favorite wine, and we're all set. ^_^

(wow. That's offtopic )
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 29, 2009, 06:00:31 pm
ooh I see. Yeah, I think I remember some games simply modified the tilemap to add tiles as the text box window. Or when the text box takes the entire screen width.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 27, 2009, 12:40:41 pm
I ran into a problem trying to cram all the sprite and tile data (tilemaps are on another page) onto the same page, along with much of the other image data. That's being resolved by switching to pucrunch and buffering all the data out to RAM page $82.

This means, there's no hope in hell this is gonna work with the 83+. Unless you can stand a larger FlashAPP. Which I won't do right now. I just don't feel like having to insert another page.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on August 27, 2009, 12:55:31 pm
awwww....:/
well you could make two versions you know...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 27, 2009, 02:36:14 pm
You know. Now that I think about it, I might be able to get a little bit more mileage out of using pucrunch to compress the tilemaps. I'm gonna look into it whenever I get the chance to deal with it.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on August 27, 2009, 02:48:27 pm
ah ok, well good luck with it. I hope it works great
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 27, 2009, 07:16:49 pm
I would focus on 83+SE and 84+ support for now (and possibly TI-Nspire). Then worry about regular 83+ if it's even possible
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on September 02, 2009, 02:30:31 pm
Small victory: I got the tillemaps to compress well using puCrunch and I managed to recover a fair chunk of page 3 so I can use it for stuff other than just the tilemap. I've already started adding them and I could not believe the results. The decompressor (with a few edits) and the routine to handle the output (also edited) worked perfectly the first time around.

I had to go past the three compressed maps to make it to the others that weren't compressed using that method. This caused a crash. My heart lept with joy as this is evidence that decompression using the new method works without flaw. Now... to get every map this way :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 02, 2009, 07:31:27 pm
Nice to hear, I am glad you managed to do it. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on September 03, 2009, 10:42:31 pm
awsome iambian   that means you can add more cherry flavored goodness to the app :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 05, 2009, 12:23:45 am
I'll admit. It's been ages since I last posted anything on these boards. So I guess I'll just stop by and leave you guys with this little nugget.

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.php?quickkey=qbvmjkjnnyn&thumb=4
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 05, 2009, 01:14:05 am
I was gonna comment on IRC but you left :( so I'll comment here

this is freaking awesome! Grayscale seems pretty good, yet it runs so fast!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: JoeyBelgier on November 05, 2009, 08:33:32 am
Stop posting GameBoy screenshots! :P
no really, this looks fantastic D:
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 05, 2009, 08:02:19 pm
I've actually decided to put off the *real* sprite routine for a while longer, but that's not a big thing right now. After a few months, I finally realized that I could be working on other things about the project. Stuff like adding a few things to the mapper, getting stuff like treasure chests and menu stuff up and running, maybe that ship and airship thingie. (Zera really wants to see the the airship in action)

So stuff that actually involves moving sprites, like NPCs and the like will be added last. Scenes included. Sorry for all this downtime. I didn't know what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: JoeyBelgier on November 05, 2009, 09:10:15 pm
(http://unrealprogramming.co.cc/images/test.gif)
Direct link to image (http://unrealprogramming.co.cc/images/test.gif)
[02:35] <Iambian> After that, then you can do something like repost it to the thread (by hotlinking the image) or something, then say something to the effect of "Mediafire sucks, Iambian gave permission to redistribute the file so no one has to deal with the oppression" or something like that.

Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 06, 2009, 01:47:43 am
I like that room with the sort-of portal thing in the middle, it really reminds me old FF games
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: simplethinker on November 06, 2009, 12:19:53 pm
That looks awesome ;D  Is the portal animated, or is the player's movement playing tricks on me?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Madskillz on November 06, 2009, 11:34:44 pm
I think your eyes are playing tricks on you...but this does look great. Smooth looking greyscale, its fast...keep it up Iambian.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 07, 2009, 12:57:59 am
It might just be because of the grayscale. In some grayscale games on calc, certain tiles looks animated. I've seen the same happen on TVs when playing video games or watching game runs recorded on VHS tape. Sometimes the scanlines, which can be hard to see, makes it look like some tiles are either animated or shining
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TsukasaZX on November 07, 2009, 06:52:41 pm
That is amazing, Iambian! :O
And do I spy some Zelda sprites in there? That totally looks like a Subrosia portal from Oracle of Seasons :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 09, 2009, 12:26:43 am
(http://i37.tinypic.com/qralug.gif)

This one demonstrates (briefly) moving water (of sorts), a transition effect (still in the works), and area titles corresponding to a select few warp points. I had only a few selected simply because no one really wants to be bombarded with messages when you already know where you are. These messages are supposed to be attached to the areas where you'll first enter the area, or when the reminder is a little more important.

Discuss (preferably the transition effect).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2009, 12:31:04 am
Ooooh awesome! I like it so far. I wonder if you could make the water move faster, though? Like 22x faster?

I always had trouble with area names in many of my RPGs that didn't have a world map before, because it was quite hard with my map engines sometimes to tell if I actually just moved to another map in the same area or if I completly moved to a new one.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 09, 2009, 12:50:28 am
Ooooh awesome! I like it so far. I wonder if you could make the water move faster, though? Like 22x faster?

I always had trouble with area names in many of my RPGs that didn't have a world map before, because it was quite hard with my map engines sometimes to tell if I actually just moved to another map in the same area or if I completly moved to a new one.

I originally decided against making the water too fast, but it can be sped up another 2 or 4 times. The current scroll ratio is once for every 8 game cycles, so that's not out of the question. (At least, I assume that's supposed to be 2x, not 22x. That would be ridiculously fast)

On the whole map names thing, the area names are in no way bound to the maps. They're actually bound to the warp point used to take the character to another place, be it another map, or another place on the map. You just need to ... *snicker*... start thinking with portals! :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2009, 01:05:43 am
Woops, my mistake, I meant 2x, sorry XD

22x would be insane XD
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on November 09, 2009, 09:54:32 am
This looks amazing!
I like the transition and the water.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: megajake03 on November 09, 2009, 11:19:25 am
That looks very cool i love the water and the transition
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Builderboy on November 09, 2009, 05:30:50 pm
Yay water!  Looks really cool! :)

I'm curious about the movement, I notice you always are in the exact center of the path, do you move in increments?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on November 09, 2009, 06:44:25 pm
really well done, I really like the water!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on November 09, 2009, 09:10:03 pm
Is it possible to walk faster than that?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: megajake03 on November 10, 2009, 09:26:36 am
Is it possible to walk faster than that?
i agree he is kinda slow.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 10, 2009, 03:23:03 pm
Personally, I would say not higher than 2.5-3 tiles a second, because in all old RPGs, that's the fastest you could walk. Plus, given the smaller resolution on a calc and the tiles sizes, moving too fast would cause the grayscale to blur too much and you would also accidentally run into traps, doors, entrances, exits or even boss fights because you don't have time to react and stop moving.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: megajake03 on November 10, 2009, 09:46:40 pm
Personally, I would say not higher than 2.5-3 tiles a second, because in all old RPGs, that's the fastest you could walk. Plus, given the smaller resolution on a calc and the tiles sizes, moving too fast would cause the grayscale to blur too much and you would also accidentally run into traps, doors, entrances, exits or even boss fights because you don't have time to react and stop moving.
very true moving too fast would be bad :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 12, 2009, 02:20:07 pm
I'm making the assumption that you're viewing the page using Firefox, or maybe Opera. IE and Google chrome will not show the animated .gif file at any framerate higher than 10fps (the ones attached are always shot at around 30fps).

If you *are* viewing it and still aren't satisfied with the speed, I'm not sure what to say. It isn't possible to make the game run any faster than it is, and will in most cases actually run slower on the real calc due to grayscale considerations.

The mode dedicated for "airship" is faster simply because the mapper moves two pixels at a time and doesn't bother drawing the one in between. I will not have this for normal walking speed, since that just looks way too fast.

The next post I make will be a small screen shot of a few additional effects I threw in. I cheat in the vid and use the "airship mode" to enter places I'm not supposed to enter from ground-level. You know, the mode used for debugging.

EDIT: Image attached. Shows that the water edge tiles are also animated. If you look closely, the clouds tile in the higher floors of the Arcanian Ruins are animated, and the warp tile as well. The stars in the Celestial Sphere are also "animated", and are not a side effect of the grayscale, though the effect was achieved through layer swapping, which was achievable only because there is grayscale.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on November 12, 2009, 04:36:36 pm
I'm making the assumption that you're viewing the page using Firefox, or maybe Opera. IE and Google chrome will not show the animated .gif file at any framerate higher than 10fps (the ones attached are always shot at around 30fps).
That's why it seemed quite slow. :D

I really like the Gif! The end's gray tiles you can walk on are really cool.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: simplethinker on November 12, 2009, 04:39:26 pm
It's looking better and better ;D

Could you have a "run" option that moves the two pixels instead of one?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: megajake03 on November 12, 2009, 05:39:51 pm
I'm making the assumption that you're viewing the page using Firefox, or maybe Opera. IE and Google chrome will not show the animated .gif file at any framerate higher than 10fps (the ones attached are always shot at around 30fps).
That's why it seemed quite slow. :D
Same problem here :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 12, 2009, 06:09:55 pm
darn so great, I love that glass floor style area.

Also, I usually make my screenshots at 9 fps instead of 27 (max setting in WabbitEmu), but that's because what I screenshot doesn't require much higher framerate.

I am surprised Chrome doesn't show animated gifs of this speed at higher than 10 fps, tho o.o. I always had the idea in head that Chrome was trying to compete with Opera and Firefox x.x.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 23, 2009, 02:23:00 pm
A system is being worked on to allow for saving and loading. Also, the main menu is being planned, but that will come after arranging the stats.

The save file on-calc is 529 bytes, but it will not count against the (now) required 3900 bytes of free RAM that the game asks for. It is arranged such that the file is swapped in and out of archive before the 3900 bytes are needed, so you can play the game with just that much RAM available. The requirements might actually be less but I didn't want to take chances at this stage. The requirements will be adjusted to exactly the size needed.

If everything goes the way I want it to, that will be done in the next few weeks. The next screenshot I'll have when that is done will demonstrate that.

EDIT: This needs to be done because the battle system relies on stuff that the status menus will generate, such as derived statistics (i.e. dmg, hit%,absorb, and evade). The save files will always remain archived unless the file is being read from or written to. This happens only on game start and game end. Any time in between or after that, it is archived. Since this game will go on the 83+SE/84+(SE) calcs, this should not pose much of a problem.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 23, 2009, 02:31:08 pm
Interesting, how many save slots will there be btw?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on November 23, 2009, 03:19:51 pm
Yay!  I love saved games in archive!

You're talking weeks now.  If only that was how long till I got to play it. *sigh*
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 23, 2009, 11:23:35 pm
Interesting, how many save slots will there be btw?
There will be two save slots. I wanted three, but the design documentation calls for two slots due to the size of the screen and what is to be represented there. You can always do something like use Celtic III to change the appvar to a program so you can back up its contents, put the appvar in a group, or send the appvar to the computer or another calc. A hassle, yeah, but there's no better way to share save files if you do the latter :P

Yay!  I love saved games in archive!

You're talking weeks now.  If only that was how long till I got to play it. *sigh*
Saved games in archive to not only keep the thing safe, but in the event that the game crashes at some random point, you've got a backup somewhere in FlashROM if you did not garbage collect yet. If you ever find yourself in that situation, http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/411/41120.html can help with that.

As far as estimating in weeks, I'm actually overshooting this a little, but I also don't have a clue how difficult coding in the various parameters is going to be. I'm not even sure *where* the majority of the routines are going to go in the app. My hope is that it won't take more than a week, but I'm not sure.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 23, 2009, 11:42:18 pm
As long as you finish this game ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 26, 2009, 10:03:49 pm
So...

I've implemented enough of the system to allow for loading and saving a game. I've attached a screenshot that demonstrates this in the following manner:

The game is started and you see "Loading..." shortly followed by the title screen and stuff you all know and love. Except this time around, when you select the "Continue" option, you are greeted to the load game menu instead of an apology regarding its absence. Selecting an empty file amounts to starting a new game, so you see the prologue. The prologue is sped up because no one likes waiting forever. Events were not made yet, so you get dumped next to the bed in some underground area. You walk around and exit the town, where the menu is opened (for the second time) to go and save the game. The game exits and then restarts shortly after with a noticeably longer load time. The demonstration there is that you can actually load the game from its previous spot.

tl;dr: Shot at 9fps, this screenshot cycles twice to demonstrate that it can load a previously saved game.

In those rather blank areas are supposed to go 16x16 portraits in the save/load menu and 32x32 portraits in the pause menu. Didn't get those in yet, as I consider them a lower priority than getting the thing to work at all.

(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/686/esor18.gif)

If you have a keen eye, you can notice certain blemishes in the system. I can spot two in the screenshot.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 26, 2009, 11:18:11 pm
wow very nice looking, as always :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on November 26, 2009, 11:22:02 pm
Wow! I'm really impressed, once again you have blown my mind!
Wow! Really amazing graphics!

I can't seem to find the blemishes you are talking about.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on November 27, 2009, 11:10:54 am
Wow! Yet another great screenshot. This game will be awesome!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: JoeyBelgier on November 27, 2009, 11:29:33 am
Omg, this is awesome O:
I love it ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: jsj795 on November 27, 2009, 11:35:47 am
This will be one of my favorites!!!!!!!!!!
looks soooo nice!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Builderboy on November 27, 2009, 12:14:25 pm
I am becoming exploding from all the awesomeness that it extruding from that screenshot :O
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: jsj795 on November 27, 2009, 12:17:26 pm
*jsj795 is jealous of Iambian
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 30, 2009, 04:00:46 pm
Working more on the game. Fully completed the save/load pairs and added map restrictions so you can't just save anywhere. Trying to build the menu where you can view what "Magick" you have but an oversight forced me to do a character select menu, which was a cause for much strife. The remaining part is actually getting to the screen where you can select what you have and possibly use it. Each spell has some flavour text to it (description). That eats space so I went ahead and compressed all that junk. Also did it for the item descriptions. Subtract over 1000 bytes from the total ^_^

Oh, by the way, the mentioned blemishes on the screenshot is as follows, so you, too, can see what I was talking about.

1 : The sprite is loaded too soon after the menu exits back to the mapper. The sprite appears before the map is rerendered.

2 : The water edge tiles upon loading the game isn't filled in until another game cycle or two later so you see some strange junk in that area.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on November 30, 2009, 05:33:45 pm
Oh. I can see the first one, but not the second.
It looks great though.
Is there a way to make the water under the culvert move. I saw this after you load the saved file. (The tile next to you when you quit at the end of the gif is what I'm talking about.)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 30, 2009, 11:00:56 pm
Oh. I can see the first one, but not the second.
It looks great though.
Is there a way to make the water under the culvert move. I saw this after you load the saved file. (The tile next to you when you quit at the end of the gif is what I'm talking about.)

It's not strange stuff as it is more of a white clearing as the map loads to the screen. It's much more obvious if you loaded the map and you are close enough to the edge to see more of the ocean. I hope to fix this so you'll never see this.

As for that little thing you were talking about, it's supposed to be a port where you can dock your ship. I didn't think the water needed to move as it's supposed to be rather calm in that area. If it's decided that the water really does need to move in that area, I can make it move in a fashion similar to how I made the water on the edge tiles move.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 30, 2009, 11:27:45 pm
Just make sure the save points are not too spread out, like for example, taking over 2 hours to reach a save point from another, because some people might have restricted time to use their calc and might not want to let it running overnight or during an entire class where calcs aren't allowed :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: megajake03 on December 01, 2009, 09:28:31 am
Just make sure the save points are not too spread out, like for example, taking over 2 hours to reach a save point from another, because some people might have restricted time to use their calc and might not want to let it running overnight or during an entire class where calcs aren't allowed :P
Yes i agree all but one of my classes don't allow calcs to be used and that is math but i have to actualy do math with it in that class :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 02, 2009, 01:29:29 am
As for myself, my parents allowed me to play video games only one hour a day until 2002, but I could do calc stuff all day long, except that my mom kept complaining I spent my entire time doing that and got my calc taken away twice
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: megajake03 on December 02, 2009, 09:23:48 am
As for myself, my parents allowed me to play video games only one hour a day until 2002, but I could do calc stuff all day long, except that my mom kept complaining I spent my entire time doing that and got my calc taken away twice
ya the same thing would more than likely happen to me if i were on my calculator more
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on December 02, 2009, 09:48:43 am
Wow, an hour a day! I'm only allowed 2 hours on the weekend...
And we all know what happened to my calc :p
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: megajake03 on December 02, 2009, 11:15:30 am
Wow, an hour a day! I'm only allowed 2 hours on the weekend...
And we all know what happened to my calc :p
i didn't notice that part but i get the same thing as Eeems for videogames which realy bites when you get a new game :(
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on December 02, 2009, 11:28:56 am
yeah :/
oh well I find ways to be on longer though :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: megajake03 on December 02, 2009, 11:40:12 am
yeah :/
oh well I find ways to be on longer though :P
true enough we both do aparently
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 02, 2009, 11:44:18 am
When my mom had a job for a while in 1999, we played until she came back, altough one day she found out and started hiding controllers while she's gone (usually in her hand bag) x.x

That said I think we're a bit off-topic now, though :P

I can't wait until battles screenshots :P (since I will be making a vid)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on December 02, 2009, 01:08:48 pm
Much appreciated that there will be a video involving this game once the battle system gets up and rolling. At the moment, though, I'm still sitting on top of the spell menu, trying to get some of the elements up and running. There's a little debate as to how the menu is supposed to actually appear, but it's all for the better.

The next thing on the list will be the item menu. That will be a pain since you're also going to be able to reequip your characters from this menu. That will be quite a bit of development, though I hope to reuse some code from the efforts spent on the spell menu to make this move along faster.

Then will come the status menu and then after that, I'll start with encounter zones and start throwing together something that'll resemble a battle menu.

Just fyi: Some of the specifics of the battle engine will be as follows.

0 : The battle screen looks a lot like Dragon Warrior with respect to how the enemy is shown on the screen. The talkative part is two lines at the bottom. Very basic animation, like flashing and screen shaking is pretty much what you'll see.

1 : You do not have a traditional experience system. It's more aligned to how often you use spells and abilities and how they will strengthen. Equipment "proficiencies" will involve how well you can use: Sword, bow, axe, staff, shield, and armor. You gain bonuses from having a higher proficiency level for each. Every so often, your base stats will improve based on probability and the stat gain associated with each piece of equipment. It'll be your job to figure out what those gains are.

2 : Enemies will have certain "ranks" so you can't just grind on low ranking enemies to reach "max level" on anything. Your base stats will only increase so much if you grind on low level enemies. You have to find higher ranking (and harder to beat) enemies to get further in the game. There are three ranks.

3 : Your max HP is 255 and Zera specified that the most you can dish out is a collective 1024 damage per attack (spread across multiple hits), though I'm just going to unhinge that depending on certain conditions. You're not likely to reach that amount of damage when you really need it anyway. The original secret boss has around 3000 HP and it's supposed to be a crapshoot when you fight it. My secret secret boss that you're never supposed to beat has 65535. Go figure.

4 : Your base stats other than HP should only max out to 99. I believe this is to allow room for equipment bonuses so that the combined total is not more than 255. The DevTeam development character does not observe this, so it's probably gonna be done in 16 bit math anyway.

5 : You have limit breaks. In-game, it's called "Quickening" which throws an attack that pierces defenses and stuff like that. I haven't read up on what contributes to that damage calculation, but I do remember that you have a chance of using it when your HP falls below (IIRC) 16% of the max, and after you use it, your HP returns to just above 16% of the max so you can't use it until your HP falls below that again. You can probably abuse this, but chances are, the enemy is gonna kill you before you get that chance. Unless you're fighting enemies you have absolutely no business (lack of benefit) fighting anyway.

6 : You've got four different status effects from what I've seen in coding. "Dead" is one of them. You've got three instant death ways to get it. Different words, same effect. Plus, the boss of the game has a spell that causes it without regard to your resistances to it. Just to make it harder. The secret secret boss will either spam that spell or just dish out a crap ton of damage. Or both. If its HP gets low enough... you'd better be feeling lucky. The other status effects is poison, enchantment (comparable to temporary partial paralysis if you're thinking Pokemon), and blindness.

7 : Your characters have "merits" that can enhance what your character can do. One of which gives you a certain chance to auto-revive if they're killed. Another allows you to use both a shield and an axe at the same time.

8 : Many pieces of equipment carry passive abilities that can become very important to how the game is played. The "Ribbon" found in many Final Fantasy games will give you a good idea as to what that entails :)

9 : Most importantly, none of any particular stat is written in stone. There will be plenty of room to balance the game once you can start fighting enemies. That will help ensure that the game has about 10 or so hours of game play.

10 : Robots aren't "alive" to begin with. Think about that one for a while when we start putting in a replay mode called "Full Metal".

This is just some of what's in there. The design documentation provided to me by Zera is far more comprehensive than this, but you're not going to see it immediately after the game is released. Maybe except for any beta testers that might apply once the positions come about.

Oh, and to quell any fears about save points or whatever, there will be "enough" of them to go around. Most of them are placed right before any real tough actions, like fighting bosses or whatnot, so your grinding efforts won't go to waste if you decide to do it in a dungeon where the enemy ranks are usually higher. You can also save anywhere on the overworld or in the underworld, so just use your "Exit" spell and save. Though your exit spell does cost a fair bit more than just MP, so beware.

I'll be happy to answer any further questions.

EDIT: Thank god for in-browser spell checking. Get Firefox or Chrome :P
Right-clicking the "misspelled" word will show possible corrections in Firefox. Maybe Chrome as well. Still won't help with a fair bit of programming jargon, tho.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: JoeyBelgier on December 02, 2009, 01:32:37 pm
Huge text =D/me is ashamed of himself that he forgot to put E: SoR in his vid -_-'
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: jsj795 on December 02, 2009, 02:28:10 pm
1 : You do not have a traditional experience system. It's more aligned to how often you use spells and abilities and how they will strengthen. Equipment "proficiencies" will involve how well you can use: Sword, bow, axe, staff, shield, and armor. You gain bonuses from having a higher proficiency level for each. Every so often, your base stats will improve based on probability and the stat gain associated with each piece of equipment. It'll be your job to figure out what those gains are.

This sounds a lot like Illusiat 13 with the level of the magic. Wow!!! This is going to be awesome! Very nice, Iambian
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 02, 2009, 03:16:42 pm
Illusiat 13 magic upgrade is kinda experience based, though. Everytime you use a spell, its experience increases. The higher the level, the slower it increases. There are no bonuses from using spells against stronger enemies, but since stronger enemies takes a long while to beat, you level up your magic faster against them. There's also the trick of casting spells against which enemies are immune. Basically you buy like 100 fire spells and waste them all on a fire-resistant enemy and you'll still level up your magic (altough it's kinda a waste of money in the end, since you could be fighting stronger enemies that gives more money instead).

Mana Force 2 had a magic level up system like Illusiat 13 too (altough only from LV1 to LV3 and magic took a ridiculous amount of time to master, since there were 18...er... 16).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on December 02, 2009, 06:56:27 pm
This is so great! I'm sure this will be an amazing game.

How do you know which one of the three ranks you are? (#2)

The full metal mode sounds cool. Do you have to be attacked before attacking?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: megajake03 on December 02, 2009, 10:29:11 pm
That is a whole bunch of text
Also this sounds like it is going to be one amazing game when it is finnished
Do you have to be attacked before attacking?
I am curious about that to what is the answer?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Ti-newb on December 02, 2009, 11:26:38 pm
i am so excited. like over the top oh em gee type of excitement =OOOO
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on December 03, 2009, 12:25:29 pm
Well, spellcasting won't exactly be based on the experience gained from using them, but the equipment that provides periodic wisdom gains by beating sufficiently ranked enemies will help with spell casting powers. Just try not to equip anything that'll make you stupid. No, I'm serious. There are some pieces of equipment that will *reduce* a particular stat instead of gaining in it. Supposed to make sure you pick your character's role a bit more carefully.

You don't have ranks. Your enemies do. Any of your stats that have reached a certain level cannot improve any further by beating weaker enemies.

Also, I'm not going to divulge too much about "Full Metal" mode other than the fact that you'll be replaying the story of the game through a very different perspective. Almost a comedy compared to the more serious mood that the main story attempts.

NOT SO EDITY: This was supposed to be posted "yesterday" but I completely forgot about it 'till today. My bad. Thank god for laptops and their appeal toward simply "sleeping" it instead of shutting it down.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on December 27, 2009, 12:33:46 pm
Much work remains to be done before I can announce my total failure to make any progress.

No, wait. That's not the right thing to say!

Anyway, the project isn't dead. In fact, it's actively being worked on. Forgive my lack of foresight, but you wouldn't believe how hard/tedious it is to build menus in Z80 ASM. I mean, those that looks halfway decent and not crappy like the TI-OS menus.

Specifically, I got done with coding the equipment check menu (lets you view the stats of any piece of equipment you have on your person). The next thing on the plate is a customizable inventory menu base that provides options to filter through your general inventory and show only the stuff you're able to equip on the slot you've chosen.

The same system can be set to go "Nuuuuuu! U do NOT leave without taking this RARE ITEM!" if your inventory is full and ... yeah.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 27, 2009, 12:52:55 pm
Mhmm, I heard it was hard to mess with text in the first place in ASM, I can't imagine having menus as well x.x. For my ROL4 game, I remember to save space on them and to make my job easier, I just coded some generic menu routine that displayed the choices from a string, and they would display based on the amount of rows and columns you specify in a list, as well as the height/width contained in the list, then it would execute the selection code moving the cursor around according to the menu size/amount of rows/columns, and when pressing enter, it would store the choice number inside a variable (or zero if you cancelled).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on December 27, 2009, 01:48:37 pm
Wow. sounds cool.
I wish for a screenie...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Jon on December 27, 2009, 05:51:21 pm
you wouldn't believe how hard/tedious it is to build menus in Z80 ASM. I mean, those that looks halfway decent and not crappy like the TI-OS menus.

Back in my hay-day I sat down for four hours and wrote a nice little dynamic menu routine that looks pretty nice.  Interested?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on December 27, 2009, 11:46:23 pm
This is a screenie of what I have so far with the menus. I'm pretty sure there's a better way to do it, but I'm plodding through it until I can get something that works, then I'll see what I can do to optimize it.

The harder part was getting the menu to remember where it was when you go back to it. The main menu didn't have that since I wasn't thinking about doing it at that time.

EDIT: Forgot to show what was most recently done. Second image posted.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 27, 2009, 11:47:19 pm
Nice, old skool, reminds me FF games for the NES to a certain extent ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on December 28, 2009, 12:05:46 am
wow! you have outdone yourself again! that looks amazing!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on December 28, 2009, 07:18:22 am
Nice, old skool, reminds me FF games for the NES to a certain extent ^^
Reminds me FF too.

Great job! This is certainly the most impressive graphics for z80 calcs that will be seen soon.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on December 28, 2009, 09:37:58 am
Excellent!  Those menus are by far the best menus I've ever sceen for a 83/84 series calc.
Very well done!  That looks incredible!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on December 31, 2009, 12:47:56 am
A little more work has been done. Between this screenshot and the last, I've spent a total of about 16 hours working on this sucker. I don't feel like a whole lot has gotten done, but you can be the judge of that one.

Also, I intend on optimizing the menu systems after I'm done slogging through it. To do: Status menu, equipping alchemy, and item/magic actions.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2009, 02:47:18 am
darn gotta love these menus, very old skool and looking nice at the same time
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on December 31, 2009, 06:33:46 am
Impressive work as always.

This game is going to make you feel like playing GB.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on December 31, 2009, 11:39:51 am
Wow, that looks so incredible!  Watching it makes me feel like I'm watching a Game Boy game. :)
I'm blown away with the fact that that's on a calc.  It looks incredible!

Are you using 3 level or 4 level grayscale for the menus?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Builderboy on December 31, 2009, 12:24:24 pm
It looks like its 3 level?  With only a single shade of gray?  Looks really awesome tho :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on December 31, 2009, 12:40:23 pm
Looking good :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 01, 2010, 12:40:42 am
There are four levels of gray possible with the menus but I haven't gotten around to doing anything with the dark gray, excepting the portraits and some symbol icons.

I *would* try something with using dark gray instead of black for "grayed out" options, but my code doesn't support that. If it becomes important, maybe, but it'll be a stretch.

Since I'm redesigning the menus, I'm thinking. Just thinking. About adding support for grayed out options. I think it would be the first to do it with 4 level gray.

EDIT: I'm nearly done with the pause screen menus, but I've taken some time aside to re-implement them so they take up less space and appear a bit more compact (code-wise)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 01, 2010, 01:20:24 am
I kinda like the menus you had, tho, but I can't wait what you will come up with :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 01, 2010, 09:51:49 am
Imo, dark gray grayed outs isn't really necessary. You could do some screen mock-ups and see how it looks first, and then decide from there.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 01, 2010, 11:55:25 am
Wow, sounds cool!  I'm sure you're going to have amazing menus.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 02, 2010, 12:49:29 am
Oh. I'm not changing much about how the menus will look. I've worked on it for too long to change around the layout.

I'm just redoing the code responsible from getting it from pieces of data in FlashROM to something visually pleasing on the screen. That's what I meant when I said I was redesigning them. Fiddling around with code that's about 6 months old.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 02, 2010, 05:32:24 pm
Aaah i see. Thanks for clarifying :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 07, 2010, 02:53:25 pm
Okay. Humpty Dumpty is back together again. Just making sure the pieces are securely in their places.

The save/load prompt is back in place and works properly. The character select menu is back in place. Just have to debug some of the other menus, like the inventory system and the spell select. The menu system now features full backward memory, which means it'll remember where you were when you go back (or up) one level. Makes it easier to navigate. Unfortunately, it can't remember what you did when you go forward. I don't plan on putting that feature in since menus share so many memory areas.

EDIT: A small short story on yesterday's woes: When I first put it all back together, the thing simply didn't work for whatever reason, but I knew it isn't the menu system itself since the opening screen worked but the game froze on the character select menu and the save/load menu. A little while into trying to trace the source of the problem, I found that the routine responsible for converting a binary number into ASCII for displaying was bugged. The final iteration was trapped in an infinite loop. Fun stuff. After that, I adjusted the display since writing things to the screen is based off of relative positions instead of absolute positions. That was another major change internally.

EDIT 2: Pretty soon, I'm gonna have to make myself a screenshit threat. I mean... yeah. IRC really is catching up. Thanks DJ Omnimaga :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 07, 2010, 03:23:42 pm
moar progress :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 07, 2010, 04:55:57 pm
Wow, sounds cool.
*Ztrumpet lols at the Illusiat 13 topic refrence*

What do you mean by "going foreward"?
*Ztrumpet dosn't get simple termanology...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: jsj795 on January 08, 2010, 09:44:25 am
What do you mean by "going foreward"?
*Ztrumpet dosn't get simple termanology...

I think it means when you select something in inventory or something, the cursor is always at the top, but when you deselect (or leave the specific item menu), the cursor on the inventory menu is at the place where you were

i don't know if i confused even more o.O and iambian, correct me if im wrong^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 08, 2010, 11:54:36 am
Final Fantasy games often had an option letting the user set the cursor to memory or fixed position. At fixed position the cursor would go back to first menu choice regardless of if you went forward or backwards in menus, while memory had its position remembered no matter what.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 12, 2010, 01:55:51 am
Finished up with the equip menu. Also started working on the status menu. For your convenience, you can access the status menu right from the equip menu by using the DEL key as sort of a shortcut. Because you know... you want to see the immediate effect of what you equipped, right?

The empty space in the status menu is where a large portrait is going to be going. I haven't really put that stuff in yet.

On another note, the app has 5.6KB collectively remaining in its 4 pages. I may actually have to expand the app to 80KB to get myself another 16KB.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on January 12, 2010, 02:08:25 am
This is turning out better and better all the time!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 12, 2010, 08:51:35 am
This looks very nice! Great job!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 12, 2010, 10:39:47 am
This looks really nice. I'm a bit surprised that you're running that low on space already, but another 16kb isn't really that much of a concern as far as size goes. It is an RPG after all. =D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 12, 2010, 01:44:10 pm
Wow nice so far :), and I don't mind 80 KB app, or even 96 for that matter. With everything included in the game it will be worth the space it takes IMHO.

Because you know... you want to see the immediate effect of what you equipped, right?
Yup, I really hated how FFIV didn't do that. It was trial and error to equip anything in this game. Same to buy stuff, you would get ripped at many shops because of idiot sellers selling weaker equipment than previous shop for more. I got more frustrated at buying stuff than fighting hard bosses in this game.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 12, 2010, 04:38:09 pm
Oh, I forgot to mention what I thought about size; It's fine in my opinion to have more space.  You're doing a great job with it, so why not use more. ^-^

Plus, it's going to be a huge game already.  At this point it's just big and would be looked at as the same size weather it's 4 pages or 5, in my opinion (Which if anyone thinks is wrong, I'm sorry).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: simplethinker on January 12, 2010, 06:37:28 pm
Very nice ;D

Do you have all of the data in the app yet? (I think you said you had a while ago)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 12, 2010, 08:59:30 pm
Not all of the data that can be included in the app actually *is* in the app. The data that remains is the character/NPC dialog data, treasure chest data, enemy statistical data, large character portraits, event data, and a few other goodies that needs to go in, like game ending sequences and your ubiquitous world map.

Not to mention all the code that drives all of it. But on the bright side, much of the dialog data will be compressed so many kilobytes of text will condense to something much smaller. ty, pucrunch :P

The robot side story (Full Metal mode) might drive it to a 96KB app, but it probably won't since it will use so many of the same assets from the main story.

EDIT: The pause menu system is finally in. The merits are now calculated and the app's really, REALLY quickly running out of space. A few bytes under 5KB remains. Gotta go ahead and expand the app.

EDIT 2: Okay. The expansion was made. A few definitions were changed. I reduced the dependency on the age-old ti83plus.inc and made a minimalistic file that retains just four lines copied from the same thousand-line include file. The app compiles far faster. Thus, developing with my compile-happy finger will be that much faster. Oh, how I could go on and on, but yeah. :)

EDIT 3 : Alright. The file's a fair bit more than 4 lines now, but only because I wanted to have everything I'll ever need in that one file. The app uses 11 romcalls (2 are numerically defined) and one "bjump" (JForceCmdNoChar). "contrast" is used only during initialization. "appbackupscreen" and "plotsscreen" are referenced all over the place in the app. Then there's the whole "#define equ .equ" and "#define EQU .equ". Nothing else. All romcalls are made when the app is starting up and shutting down.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 13, 2010, 04:01:14 pm
Lol you should have double posted these updates, in case suddently Omnimaga had a major activity outburst :P

Unfortunately I doN,t understand most of that stuff since I don't know ASM tho x.x

I don't mind large apps, as long as it remains maybe under 200 KB, because I have trouble sending larger apps it seems (I have the black link cable)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 13, 2010, 04:28:48 pm
Sounds nice!
I like the little include idea.  That's pretty neat.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 13, 2010, 06:44:25 pm
Sounds nice!
I like the little include idea.  That's pretty neat.
It is, but such an idea only really works when you've figured out conclusively that the stuff you want out of it is *all* that you will ever need. It becomes a pain (at least on my end) to have to update the small include file if you want to put in another romcall or some other reference from ti83plus.inc

A little more on topic, I spent a few more minutes up at my college's math lab (not for math. For a guy who works there that is interested in the game) debugging a few things so that the app will initialize. The problem involved not updating the pages correctly in the one file I thought I updated. It now works. Still, I've gotta start moving a few files around and update the project to make use of the newly-created page.

EDIT: Just posting the black box that involves the compile process. It takes just slightly over a second to work. A little less if the system's been "warmed up". You can see where I put in that extra page.

OFF TOPIC EDIT: I love the thumbnailing feature that this forum seems to provide. Very friendly on people that run dial-up or at dial-up speeds (school WiFi)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 13, 2010, 11:56:47 pm
Nice. I still remember when TASM would take 3 seconds to compile Hello World on my 350 MHz Pentium 2...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: simplethinker on January 18, 2010, 01:37:21 pm
Nice. I still remember when TASM would take 3 seconds to compile Hello World on my 350 MHz Pentium 2...
On my (supposedly) 2 GHz Sempron 3400+ TASM *still* takes 4-5 seconds to compile a Hello World program.  SPASM takes less than a second to compile a 4 KB program.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 18, 2010, 10:20:13 pm
Just a few screenshots. I was testing out the quick-screenshot feature of WabbitEmu, and thought I would throw these up. Nothing you guys haven't seen already, though.

(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1318/wabbitemu1.gif) (http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/1439/wabbitemu2.gif) (http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5444/wabbitemu3.gif) (http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/9785/wabbitemu4.gif) (http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8573/wabbitemu5.gif) (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/899/wabbitemu6.gif) (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9773/wabbitemu7.gif) (http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3083/wabbitemu8.gif) (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/7344/wabbitemu9.gif) (http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6958/wabbitemu.gif)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 18, 2010, 11:12:44 pm
It appears that Maya(that was the character's name right?) is walking through water in the screen shot in the upper left. Is that actually possible in game, and does it require a special item?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 18, 2010, 11:24:21 pm
It appears that Maya(that was the character's name right?) is walking through water in the screen shot in the upper left. Is that actually possible in game, and does it require a special item?

She is; and that's a normal effect. Some dungeons will contain pools of water you can traverse.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 18, 2010, 11:29:23 pm
Ah that's interesting. That opens up the possibility for chests or other items to be submerged(and not visible) in the water (if you had implemented something like that).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 18, 2010, 11:31:53 pm
Very nice, and that reminds me I must update my WabbitEmu one day. I still use WabbitEmu 2.0 or something (2007 or 2008), I think, which doesn't have a still screenshot feature (I can only do animated)

Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Builderboy on January 18, 2010, 11:33:22 pm
Wow that looks really awesome!  And yeah, i especially love the water effect. ^^ I don't know about chests underwater though, it would make them hard to find :(
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 18, 2010, 11:40:23 pm
Alot of old school RPG's had invisible passages that lead to chest, or invisible items in various places (on the ground, behind a house etc) the idea is that you have a command or a button that you can press to "search" directly in front of you. In this case, you could still keep the chest as a a solid object as well (or not, and just make it more secretive), so it would still halt your movement if you bumped into it. Even the pokemon games have something like this implemented. It's kind of like a reward for exploring and being curious. =D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 18, 2010, 11:46:10 pm
Oh yeah that, in FFIV, you can find items in grass and pots, even water. In later games you can also find them in bookshelves

Some of my calc games also had such similar thing sometimes
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 19, 2010, 07:50:37 am
I still use WabbitEmu 2.0 or something (2007 or 2008), I think, which doesn't have a still screenshot feature (I can only do animated)
Me too.

Wow, those look great!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 19, 2010, 11:08:25 am
This (http://group.revsoft.org/wabbitemu.exe) is the version of WabbitEmu we're using. (sorry for the direct-link) I think it's technically a beta, but it has a lot more features than the stable version I had before.

For screenshots, you can just drag-and-drop the window to your desktop! It's definitely handy.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 19, 2010, 01:30:36 pm
Aaah ok, I wonder if it's the exact same one as in TI-Boy SE folder... I had serious problems with this one that often rendered it unuseable. I might check again, though. I think it is updated frequently so it may be a newer version. The TI-Boy SE version often crashed on startup (going in older wabbitemu and selecting a new ROM then back in the new WabbitEmu often fixed it) and the LCD was like 100 pixels off. Keypad did not work as well
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 19, 2010, 03:04:10 pm
There were some problems with the version of WabbitEmu I had before, but they seem to be fixed in the recent beta. Then again, the beta has a couple of issues of its own. Iambian and I had trouble getting the ON button to work at all. (with the 83+ Silver ROM) I think he recently found a work-around for it, though.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 19, 2010, 03:50:34 pm
I generally just use the keyboard keys now, but it is hard to remember all of them by heart
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 19, 2010, 04:29:13 pm
How do I turn it on? *Ztrumpet is dumb, but can't figure it out...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 19, 2010, 06:11:08 pm
The hotkey to turn WabbitEmu's calc on is F12.

The only keys you really need to know for E:SoR are as follows:

Left Shift = 2nd (action)
Esc = MODE (menu/cancel)
Del = DEL (special function)
F1 = Y= (special function)
Arrow keys = Arrow keys (movement)

To start E:SoR, the APPS button is mapped to the PGUP (page up) key. Enter is Enter.

Of course, you'd really need the game to memorize them. For me, I have to use them over and over again before I'll remember it. The special function keys in particular because they currently map to debugging functions.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 19, 2010, 06:13:56 pm
Once the game is finished, the special keys will have different functions depending on the menu or map you're in. DEL, for instance, brings-up the world map while exploring, or brings you to the status screen if you're currently in the equipment screen.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 26, 2010, 10:57:12 pm
At the moment, I'm rerouting the 2nd key to let you open chests. Gotta get that routine debugged (haven't tested it quite yet), so I'll be spending some time with that code until I can verify that it's actually working.

It shouldn't be long now until you can actively obtain stuff from these chests. And after that, checking the encounter buffers and writing in that bit of logic. And debugging.

Once the initial values are in place, I can begin work in earnest on the battle engine. That should be some FUN.

F is for fires that burn down the city, U is for ... Uranium bombs, N is for No survivors down here in the deep blue ...

Uhm. yeah. :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 27, 2010, 12:56:36 am
More progress ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on January 27, 2010, 01:02:31 am
woot sponge bob is taking over XD

[------]
[o----o]
[------]
[uuuuu]
  l     l


(fear my Quick ascii rendition muwahahahahahahaa)


oh and nice im loving how this is coming along XD
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 27, 2010, 09:32:12 am
Yay, Chests!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 28, 2010, 08:33:17 pm
Just a quick update, I've managed to throw together treasure box recognition. That and now you're actually able to raid them. Just so I can test them, I made it pass through the battle check and just let you grab the item. And they actually add to your inventory now. At least that's correct. You wouldn't believe the kinds of problems I've been having in the past hour or two simply because it would not. (in short, using wrong subroutine).

I still don't have anything in for what happens if you try to grab something and the inventory is already full (rest assured, it'll at least TRY to put it in there before it complains). That's gonna be debated with Zera later tonight on IRC.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 28, 2010, 09:16:17 pm
Sounds great!  I can't wait for a screenie.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 28, 2010, 11:21:09 pm
Cool, I wish you luck!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 30, 2010, 12:31:02 am
I believe I've done all I can with page 3 of E:SoR. That is all.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 30, 2010, 12:32:27 am
Lol nice, only one byte left XD
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on January 30, 2010, 01:00:46 am
Lol, good job :p hopefully you will have enough room.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 30, 2010, 11:10:33 am
Hmm, what can you do with ONE byte?  Wow.  Excellent job. ;)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: mapar007 on January 30, 2010, 02:49:25 pm
Maybe add a period to some sentence...

Guess I can learn a few "low-level data management" lessons here :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 30, 2010, 11:26:42 pm
When I finished Illusiat for the TI-81, I had 7 bytes of free RAM after adding magic animations. I simply reworded some sentences and added better punctuation to not leave any free byte :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on January 31, 2010, 09:57:23 am
When I finished Illusiat for the TI-81, I had 7 bytes of free RAM after adding magic animations. I simply reworded some sentences and added better punctuation to not leave any free byte :P
That would very probably don't work in TI-83+ series because of how it manages variables.
Still a feature to not forget in the readme. hehehe :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Builderboy on January 31, 2010, 12:29:26 pm
Yeah, your best bet on the 83 is to just stay as far away as you can from zero :P Things like ans tend to make your memory fluctuate quite a bit x.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 31, 2010, 01:40:38 pm
When I finished Illusiat for the TI-81, I had 7 bytes of free RAM after adding magic animations. I simply reworded some sentences and added better punctuation to not leave any free byte :P
That would very probably don't work in TI-83+ series because of how it manages variables.
Still a feature to not forget in the readme. hehehe :P
Yeah the thing on the 81 is that everything but program content and lists used some of the additional 5.6 KB of hidden RAM so even with 0 bytes of free memory, you could still run stuff fine
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 31, 2010, 02:01:55 pm
Woah, that's really neat.  Too bad there is no getKey on an 81.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 31, 2010, 02:22:25 pm
Oh well, at least there was Input :P

The TI-Nspire have yet to add this (altough I think in OS 1.8 it will be added, hoping they won't disallow downgrading to the OS that can run ASM, though)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 01, 2010, 04:02:38 pm
Slow goings.

Got these treasure chests to "open" up but the routine responsible for making sure the open treasure chests appear to "stay" open hasn't been tested yet.

I'm a little irked by the fact that the chest appears open only after the transaction with the chest has been completed, but Zera reassured me that this is the behavior in just about any other RPG of this type.

EDIT: Maybe this might be screenshot worthy but I'm ... too lazy right now. Sitting at school and stuffs. Maybe later in another post.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on February 01, 2010, 04:26:11 pm
Sounds awesome.
  *ZTrumpet thinks it's screenshot worthy, so he can go "Wow!  It looks even better! :D"
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 01, 2010, 07:54:34 pm
Opening treasure chests and cheating the entire way. Iambic Check + Manual Map Switch Key = WIN.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: {AP} on February 01, 2010, 07:57:35 pm
*raises hand* Question!
Will Iambic check be in the final release?
If not, I demand beta testing privileges! D=
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 01, 2010, 08:14:29 pm
Iambic Check is an item that will be available only for early beta testers for E:SoR. After it's outlived its usefulness, it will either be unavailable, or completely removed from the game (so you can't hack it in later). Depends on whether or not I need to reclaim space.

Positions are not yet available for this stage of beta testing (as I need to put more stuff in). When the thing becomes testable, be sure to check up on IRC, since that's where I'll be doing the most "hiring."

I'll be sure to remember you for the testing in case being on IRC isn't practical.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 02, 2010, 01:38:44 am
True, ppl might use Calcsys and the like x.x

Looks nice as always.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2010, 03:13:40 pm
Additional news! Things are looking rather up for this project.

I've obtained a COLLEGE FRIEND to help out with the writing aspect of this project. She and her co-author will be assisting with E:SoR's story. I've given them quite a bit of leeway with respect to what can appear in the text, so the whole sizing issue will arise again. This time around, we may be looking at a 96KB app, but not to worry! We'll make some good use of that space!

On the coding front, however, not a whole lot has happened. I've just managed to get myself out of the MSPAFA reading and stuff. It's cool stuff; I'd encourage you to check it out if you've got a fair bit of time to spare (and I really DO mean a "fair" amount of time) : http://www.mspaintadventures.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=5233&sid=bcbc906d2f6a985cc253d9594f935cd4

Note: You do not need to register at this forum to view (and in some cases, download) the epicness, but if you want to contribute to the story (they *are* reader-driven), you have to. </fanboyadvertisement>
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on February 02, 2010, 03:14:59 pm
That is such great news!  Personally, I would prefer a long, well-written story as opposed to less calculator space
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 02, 2010, 03:45:29 pm
I wonder what's the progress % (approximately) for each parts of the game so far? I mean, if for example you're only 10% into adding maps inside the ASM code, shouldn't the app be at least 8 or 9 pages? Not that it would matter to me much, though, but ever since LL2 started on the old forums, I always was convinced it would fill at least that many, since the first LL was gonna be like 3 pages
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2010, 03:50:46 pm
I wonder what's the progress % (approximately) for each parts of the game so far? I mean, if for example you're only 10% into adding maps inside the ASM code, shouldn't the app be at least 8 or 9 pages? Not that it would matter to me much, though, but ever since LL2 started on the old forums, I always was convinced it would fill at least that many, since the first LL was gonna be like 3 pages

I...

Really don't know! I've never done a project like this before so I don't really know how much more I have to do until I get to having to do it. I mean, at the moment, I've gotta finish up them treasure chests, put in NPC objects (as a prereq, actually finish the sprite routine), do the batle system, do shops, then figure out how these stupid events are gonna be coded in (which may involve yet another system). Then texty thingies go in. And maybe endcredits and stuff. Maybe there's more stuff I'm missing, but I certainly won't miss it if I keep trucking along with this project, picking up the slack wherever it appears.

Immediately after the battle engine is done and boss events are put in, early beta testing will open up. Strictly for balancing purposes.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 02, 2010, 03:54:04 pm
cool ^^, I can't wait to test, altough this will most likely be in a long while. Don't give up, though, this will probably be the best calc RPG out there
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on February 02, 2010, 04:44:12 pm
That is such great news!  Personally, I would prefer a long, well-written story as opposed to less calculator space
cool ^^, I can't wait to test, altough this will most likely be in a long while. Don't give up, though, this will probably be the best calc RPG out there
*ZTrumpet agrees with both Hot Dog and DJ. :D  Do you think I could beta test too? ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2010, 04:50:08 pm
Let us not worry about *when* beta testing will occur. When the time comes, I'll open up another topic regarding the state of the game at that point and what needs to be done to successfully conclude that part of the testing.

EDIT: It would be best to load this game up in an emulator for testing, as loading an 80KB (or so) app (as it stands right now) to a real calculator would take a fair amount of time. Time that no one really wants to spend. But if you're living on the go, nothing's stopping you from loading it to the real calculator. Just ... please keep a notebook and a pen/pencil handy in case you need to write down what you think of certain things with the beta.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 02, 2010, 05:48:30 pm
I don't want to have too many beta-testers. A handful of people would be adequate. I'm afraid too many details would be spoiled if we had several people playing through the game and discussing it on a public forum. Since the project is essentially hosted here at Omnimaga, this site might encompass a good portion of the player-base.

Although, I suppose we could just ask testers to e-mail us their notes and findings instead of posting them here.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2010, 06:54:12 pm
The PM system would work just fine for that kind of application. I was thinking of using the forum to advertise the positions, and have all responses made through the PM system so I can pull things together as time goes on.

But I will agree with you on that. We'd have to have a relatively small group of people doing the testing so it doesn't ruin the experience for many people. Beta testing *does* ruin a game's experience, so be aware of that.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on February 02, 2010, 07:01:59 pm
Quote
Beta testing *does* ruin a game's experience, so be aware of that.

Which is why we're releasing very little with the S.A.D. beta/demo, because then even testers will have something exciting to look forward to
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 02, 2010, 07:19:40 pm
Hmmm... on Ti-freakware it was possible to setup a private topic that only beta testers could see (Ranman did this for Ultima). Perhaps something similar is possible here?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on February 02, 2010, 07:57:57 pm
That should be easy, I can do it if DJ doesn't want to.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2010, 10:04:04 pm
Can setting up private topics be done on a user-by-user basis or does it have to be done on a usergroups basis?

Also, the planned early beta will only include the battle engine and the boss battles needed to make the game go forward. These testers can still look forward to the story as event debugging will be done by a very small group, perhaps consisting of only me, Zera, and my storywriting friend.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on February 02, 2010, 10:14:35 pm
Usergroup I think...I haven't really looked, but I will take care of it if you want.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2010, 10:16:40 pm
Might want to run that one by DJ Omnimaga first.

Oh, by the way, I've also squared away the treasure chest thing. It only applies while you're warping, but that's not a big deal since that should be the only time in the game you're supposed to be changing maps. Caused some serious problems since I didn't exactly know what I was doing with any of the code, but that's fixed now.

Now, I've gotta get back home, and get Zera to test out *all* the treasures in the game to see if the boxes stay open.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on February 02, 2010, 10:34:12 pm
Yeah, I will.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 02, 2010, 11:26:21 pm
Can setting up private topics be done on a user-by-user basis or does it have to be done on a usergroups basis?

Also, the planned early beta will only include the battle engine and the boss battles needed to make the game go forward. These testers can still look forward to the story as event debugging will be done by a very small group, perhaps consisting of only me, Zera, and my storywriting friend.
I'm not sure about SMF, but on TIfreakware's forums it allowed individuals to be added as necessary as far as I could tell. Although, I suppose it could have been a temporary usergroup that just didn't display as one( in forum posts/user info etc).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 02, 2010, 11:39:16 pm
Unfortunately it is impossible to setup a subforum so it's only visible to a few users in particular. These users needs to be moved to a brand new usergroup, then it's a major PITA to set it up because of many bugs with the mods we installed. It would make me end up with flood of bug reports such as front page being empty, arcade not working fine anymore and worse. This is why authors of each projects have no moderator priviledges in their sub-forum (except staff). It would take too long to setup.

Plus, then anyone who either have admin priviledges on the forums or have access to the forum database would also have access to the game files and beta-testing information, because it is impossible to make a sub-forum invisible to admins.


The best solution for you would be to setup a temporarly Invisionfree/Zetaboard forum and make subforums only visible to the beta testers. This is what I did for Zelda: Dark Link Quest, except on Proboards instead of Invisionfree.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 03, 2010, 12:04:52 am
Ahh, that is a bit of a bummer then. :(
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 03, 2010, 01:59:42 am
It probably wouldn't be too difficult to restrict it to PM, IRC and e-mail. It doesn't necessarily have to be a centralized discussion.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 03, 2010, 02:23:56 am
True, I am unsure if I enabled group PMs for members, but normally it should work. I think you can send about 20 PMs a day and to 4 people at once max. I could easily change this too unless a spambot attack occured (like on the Zetaboard we had)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 03, 2010, 04:08:34 pm
I had an interesting dream this morning. I was playing the game, and I wandered into this abandoned village called Cromire. (not an actual location in the game) Parts of the village were covered with random pools of water and marsh. To either side was a narrow hill that connected to a dam at the north end of the village. The dam itself seemed to be guarding the village from a large river. Directly in front of the dam was a small pool. If the player found the Cup of Jamshid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cup_of_Jamshid) in one of the houses, the pool could be drained and transformed into a stairwell that led to the top of the dam, and allowed the player to explore the river. In the river is the Hannya Mask (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannya). The Hannya Mask was a level-2 helmet that was dummied from the game early on, (along with the Ioun Stone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_item_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)#Wondrous_items_.2F_miscellaneous_magic_items)) because the number of unique treasures was already so high that there was nowhere to place the item on any of the existing maps. The helmet bolstered its wearer's Wisdom more than any other helmet, and had decent defense as well. It was to be the "caster's helmet" that would likely be used by the mage archetype of the party.

Alternatively, the player could just keep the Cup of Jamshid to themself, and make use if its powers. The cup would be a key item that could be used an infinite amount of times to restore HP.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on February 03, 2010, 04:52:03 pm
That's really cool!  I wish I had dreams like that. ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 04, 2010, 12:17:17 am
lol nice, same here. I never got such dream x.x

Btw, you mention Level-2 helmet. Does that implies in this game, some equipment requires you to be at a minimum level to equip them?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 04, 2010, 01:03:22 am
lol nice, same here. I never got such dream x.x

Btw, you mention Level-2 helmet. Does that implies in this game, some equipment requires you to be at a minimum level to equip them?
To answer that one for him, yes. Not a character level, but a proficiency level. Which is to say, you've gotta be experienced at wearing helms (lv 1) before you can wear lv 2 helms. Same goes with swords, armours, and shields. (EDIT: Though any piece of equipment that has varying levels only has two. Your base and your improved version.)

On another topic, I got the encounter buffering routine up and running. Now there's a grand total of 0 bytes left on page 3. I don't think I can do much more with it :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 04, 2010, 01:25:32 am
Aaah ok. To be fair I didn,t really like how some MMORPGs forced you to get to LV 19 to use certain swords at all x.x, but that's just my opinion. It won't stop me from playing E:SoR when it's done :P

That said: I think we need a thread compiling all game screenshots, animated and unanimated, since this topic started, cuz they're kinda scattered around the 21 pages of this topic right now
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 04, 2010, 05:13:58 am
As Iambian mentioned, you need a certain proficiency level to use it. Every character has proficiency levels for each type of equipment -- swords, staves, axes, bows, shields and armor. Each level ranges from 0 to 8. To equip the helmet, you would need level-4 proficiency in armor. (which, colloquially, we just call "level-2 armor") The idea is that such items are too heavy or unwieldy without proper training. i.e., you can't go and pick up some huge sword and use it without having prior experience with swords in general. Some characters begin the game with sufficient levels to equip these items, though.

Naturally, you also get better with the items you use; so you'll receive ocassional bonuses to attack and defense power, or be able to hit multiple times with a single attack.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on February 04, 2010, 07:45:13 am
That sounds really cool.  It sounds like a great system to use.

0 bytes on the page?  Nice! ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 04, 2010, 07:47:21 am
That system reminds me alot of Final Fantasy II(NES).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 04, 2010, 09:40:06 am
Oh yeah I remember that game. It had levels for each weapons too. I don't rememeber for armors? I remember for weapons and spells it took friggin long to level up something, though x.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 04, 2010, 10:04:36 am
Except that you could "cheat" and attack your own party members with spells or physical strikes and level up alot each battle. (higher levels were alot more of a PITA though)XD. I don't think it had levels for armors though. As far as I remember their weren't requirements for weapons or armor either, you just became more proficient in skills as you used them. (skills in bows, swords spears etc.) magic leveled up on a per spell basis and became more powerful as you used it. Defense and Hp leveled up the more often you took blows (I think).

Are you able to attack your own party members to gain proficiency in Escheron? Or are you unable to attack them at all?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 04, 2010, 10:09:12 am
That system reminds me alot of Final Fantasy II(NES).

That game was the inspiration behind it. :)

Of course, it's much easier to increase proficiency levels in Escheron. Spells, thankfully, do not have proficiency levels. It made more sense for them to have a scaling effect based on the caster's Wisdom score. (so they become more effective as you increase your Wisdom)

Even if you don't increase your proficiencies, you aren't punished for it. There are a few enemies that require fairly high proficiency levels just to damage, but they're few and far. (and you always have your spells as a back-up)

There are levels for armor mostly to prevent characters from wearing heavy suits of armor from the start. Of course, they also gain passive defense bonuses by leveling armor proficiency.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 04, 2010, 06:32:17 pm
Except that you could "cheat" and attack your own party members with spells or physical strikes and level up alot each battle. (higher levels were alot more of a PITA though)XD. I don't think it had levels for armors though. As far as I remember their weren't requirements for weapons or armor either, you just became more proficient in skills as you used them. (skills in bows, swords spears etc.) magic leveled up on a per spell basis and became more powerful as you used it. Defense and Hp leveled up the more often you took blows (I think).

Are you able to attack your own party members to gain proficiency in Escheron? Or are you unable to attack them at all?
I also remember how in FFII you didn't always increase in lv every battle. It seemed pretty random. It could get pretty frustrating. TO be fair I didn't like this system a lot because I always ended up with magic doing like 100 damage because they took too long to master and regular attacks did 2000
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 05, 2010, 12:32:22 am
I also remember how in FFII you didn't always increase in lv every battle. It seemed pretty random. It could get pretty frustrating. TO be fair I didn't like this system a lot because I always ended up with magic doing like 100 damage because they took too long to master and regular attacks did 2000

In FF2, enemies had a rank associated with them. Depending on this rank, you could only raise your proficiencies to a certain level by fighting this particular enemy. For instance, you can't reach max proficiency levels by only fighting monsters that appear in the first few areas of the game. You eventually have to start fighting stronger monsters to continue increasing your levels.

Spells were just broken. I mean, statistically. Even if you raised them to max level, they would still only inflict a few hundred points of damage. Protective, buffing and healing spells were okay. The only real use for attack spells was to damage enemies with absurdly high defense, or to target their elemental weakness. The experience requirements for increasing spell levels was also broken. An average player would only be able to raise a single spell level to 10 or so by the end of the game, considering that they neglected everything else. If you tried to focus on different spells evenly, you might only have level 4 or so in each.

Don't feel bad if your party sucks in FF2. That's likely because the game statistics are just broken in general. :P

Quote
Are you able to attack your own party members to gain proficiency in Escheron? Or are you unable to attack them at all?

No. Like FF2, enemies have ranks, and how your stats are increased depends on those ranks. Even if you could attack your characters, it would not influence your stat growth. Stat growth is tied directly to which items you have equipped, and which enemies you fight. FF2 had a system where stats increased as they were used. i.e., you had to sustain damage in order to increase your vitality.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 05, 2010, 02:54:23 am
Yeah I think the game is really broken. I mean, early in the game you can get to 6000 HP in a few hours and your attacks 600 damages. It's insane x.x

Still a cool game tho, story-wise and in general, plus it can't be as broken as Illusiat 3 (I think my TAS speaks for itself) and Illusiat 10 ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 05, 2010, 08:55:38 am
Quote
Are you able to attack your own party members to gain proficiency in Escheron? Or are you unable to attack them at all?
Quote
No. Like FF2, enemies have ranks, and how your stats are increased depends on those ranks. Even if you could attack your characters, it would not influence your stat growth. Stat growth is tied directly to which items you have equipped, and which enemies you fight. FF2 had a system where stats increased as they were used. i.e., you had to sustain damage in order to increase your vitality.

Ah, ok. That's an cool setup. Although, I did enjoyed pummeling the daylights out of my party members. I am really glad that I don't have to get the tar beaten out of me in order to increase vitality though.

In regards to Final Fantasy II, magic was underpowered and it made me sad. I ended up getting lost near the final area of the game, so I did ALOT of grinding. My highest spells were a level 15 cure and a level 16 cure. Each character had 16 and 15 spells total respectively (of my two casters). Average spell levels were 8.06 and 6.3 respectively. I have 37:37 game time logged. I never did end up finishing that game... :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 23, 2010, 11:37:29 pm
Just a minor suggestion: Could you consider editing screenshots into the original post so they're easier to find? I had to dig through several pages. It looks great, but not that many people are going to see it if they have to search through the thread. :P
^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 24, 2010, 12:15:43 am
I can't edit the original post, since it's a guest account. I would have moved some of the material Iambian posted up there for convenience.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 24, 2010, 12:56:33 am
oh right, forgot about that x.x


However, you could start a screenshot thread (all images on the first post, or 2nd, 3rd and 4th post if they won,t fit)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 24, 2010, 01:14:44 am
I considered that before. I guess it would be helpful. I'll look into gathering all the images tomorrow, and see if I can set something up.

I think I have some images in the project folder I could use, too. The only problem is that there have been so many changes along the way that I'm not sure if any of my media would really reflect the most recent build.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 24, 2010, 01:21:57 am
maybe have them labelled as outdated. Through http://www.omnimaga.org/images/screenshots/ i even have some that were posted on the old board
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 24, 2010, 02:34:28 am
Marginal progress. Not enough to justify this delay, though. I'll work on it as soon as I get some time. Got a paper due yesterday to do.

Still gotta render them enemy sprites. They won't draw themselves. That's why there's a large blank space above.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 24, 2010, 02:39:06 am
nice ^^ can't wait to see battles with enemies and action/commands
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 24, 2010, 12:35:35 pm
I like how the text is rendered so far. Looks great. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: trevmeister66 on February 24, 2010, 12:56:12 pm
I like how the text is rendered so far. Looks great. :)
+1
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 24, 2010, 03:07:19 pm
I was wondering if anyone would've wanted to see some sort of typewriter effect?

Just... wondering. I was wondering about a varying text display rate, with the fastest being what you see above.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 24, 2010, 03:27:57 pm
I, personally, like when text instantly appears. When I'm playing an RPG, I always adjust the text speed to the fastest setting. That isn't to say that I'm necessarily opposed to a typwriter effect, though. The only time it bugs me is when it's ultra-slow. (Final Fantasy Legend comes to mind...)

If you end up going with the typewritter effect, maybe you could implement a configuration menut that includes a speed adjustment option. (perhaps pressing a specifc button while on the map will bring you straight to this menu) I wonder what other settings could appear in that menu, though...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 24, 2010, 04:01:21 pm
Same as Zera here, because when NPC convos are long I hate having to spend 30 minutes watching text appear x.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on February 24, 2010, 05:03:30 pm
Same here.  I don't want to spend forever watching text appear.

It looks nice! :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Builderboy on February 24, 2010, 07:17:56 pm
Nothing to say here that hasn't been said already, it all looks awesome! ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 24, 2010, 08:14:06 pm
...
If you end up going with the typewritter effect, maybe you could implement a configuration menut that includes a speed adjustment option. (perhaps pressing a specifc button while on the map will bring you straight to this menu) I wonder what other settings could appear in that menu, though...

User-specific settings for grayscale. Not every TI-84+(SE) is made the same, and some of them have wildly varying specs when you speak of grayscale, all affected by what LCD TI chose to put into those calculators at the time and perhaps the age of the calculator itself.

There may be other settings that need to be addressed, but that is the only thing I can think of at this moment.

Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 24, 2010, 11:58:01 pm
Does battery life influence grayscale speed/quality? I heard people saying it did a lot, but I tried some grayscale games with both weak and strong batteries and saw no difference at all with speed and quality
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: tr1p1ea on February 26, 2010, 02:58:25 am
On the 83+SE,84+ and 84+SE calcs you wont notice any timing differences regardless of battery strength (with interrupt based timing that is). On the older calcs you might however.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 26, 2010, 03:04:40 am
On some 83+ you won't notice any either (I tried on mine) but on some others, you will.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 27, 2010, 09:25:16 pm
I don't think we'll have to worry about older calcs, since this game isn't designed for them. For the 83+SE and 84+(SE).

Maybe 83+SE. I don't really know.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 28, 2010, 12:07:11 am
True, altough I'm a bit worried about the very first 83+SE's ever
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on March 08, 2010, 03:13:08 pm
Lack of progress on my part is making me somewhat unhappy. Even more so if nothing gets done on this wonderful spring break that started just today.

Just letting ya know. Started working on some "victory" conditions and getting the code looking the way it needs to be. Testing a few conditions there, and then throwing together the data needed for all them monster-y goodness. Keep ya posted on that respect.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on March 08, 2010, 03:51:28 pm
Sounds like someone needs a little "Colonial discipline" ...

*readies his cat-o-nine-tails*

 :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on March 08, 2010, 03:52:44 pm
Nice, spring break! :D

 *ZTrumpet throws some motivation cherries at Iambian! ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 08, 2010, 11:37:31 pm
I hope it woN,t die or anything D:

I am sure you'll finish it, though. Keep up the good work and don't give up! :)

Plus if you notice, this subforum grew pretty fast in amount of replies (altough not as fast as Axe Parser)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on March 12, 2010, 11:42:01 pm
Enemy data is now coded in. Gotta choose a working structure for the battle engine to easily interface with, and then I'll be working on victory conditions.

Because you know. It would suck if you win a fight and something goes wrong.

I'm also thinking about turning the maze in a certain optional place into a warping hypercube maze. Won't code that in 'till much later, tho. Can't let extras prevent me from getting the core in.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 13, 2010, 12:45:10 am
Lol, imagine you beat a very hard optional boss, then after the battle, Game Over. :P Then you try again, and get killed, and game continue, rewarding you with ultimate equipment :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on March 13, 2010, 11:16:02 am
That could be a problem. :P

Good luck writing this part of the core! :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on March 30, 2010, 10:35:28 am
The difference between coding while feeling great and coding while having a nasty headcold? It's like the difference between a nice walk in the park and trying to climb a mountain on a vertical facing.

The ill feelings came first. Then progress, however slight, was made. I also saw why people use traditional experience systems (level up, get stronger) instead of these highly customizable stat gain systems that have you do whatever the hell it is they want you to do to gain the stats.

So. Just a few more bits and pieces and I think I'll have enough of it coded to. Well. You know. Test. Just to see if your stat gains are out of proportion or whatever. Getting item drops from the enemies might be a little harder on my end, though. I mean, what happens if you try to pick up a key item and your inventory's full? Most certainly not crash. Don't want to make the game unwinnable. I mean, you don't have an in-game house where you can get mail for that kind of thing...

Anyway. It was just a minor setback. (Also wth? It's been over half a month since I last posted! >.< )
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 30, 2010, 11:36:03 am
I remember in one of the old FF games trying to grab a key item and inventory was full, a bug caused it to not end up in my inventory and I was in deep trouble. Had to restart entire game from scratch x.x this only ever happened once and only this key item.

As for customizeable stats, the only gripe I always had about them is how at the end of battles, despite how much effort you spent in raising them, sometimes you'Ll still not get the bonus if you're not lucky. I really hate that, which is why I did not like FFII NES that much. I would have prefered if there was 100% chance to get the increase providing you work out to get that increase.

I'm glad this is still progressing btw. I was a bit worried this month D:
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on March 30, 2010, 12:44:48 pm
As for customizeable stats, the only gripe I always had about them is how at the end of battles, despite how much effort you spent in raising them, sometimes you'Ll still not get the bonus if you're not lucky. I really hate that, which is why I did not like FFII NES that much. I would have prefered if there was 100% chance to get the increase providing you work out to get that increase.

As long as you know which gains are associated with with items, (you can check this under the Equip >Check screen) you can control how your characters improve. There is some variance, of course, since as many as three gains (or penalties) can be applied to a single item. If you're using swords to raise your STR, you may also find your WIS being penalized for it.

There's also a small set of default gains associated with each character. Regardless of what you have equipped, Maya always has a chance to gain a small amount of WIS. Examples:

+1 WIS, +1 AGI, +1 mHP - Maya's default growth
+1 STA, +1 mHP, +1 STR - Edmund's default growth


This ranks in order of which is most likely to occur; so Maya is going to gain a decent bit of additional WIS throughout the course of the game on her own, while Edmund is going to gain a decent bit of STA.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 30, 2010, 12:47:26 pm
I like E:SoR system better. It's much easier to control and also fewer chances to end up with totally unbalanced characters

EDIT: That's of course unless you need to fight extremly hard creatures during 15-20 minutes just to get one increase of stats early in the game, though x.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on March 30, 2010, 12:57:17 pm
You can control FF2's system, but it's not as fluid... nor does it make as much sense. :P

I think to raise AGI, you had to equip very light armory and evade a lot of attacks. Alternatively, you could equip two shields and waste several turns defending. Suffice it to say, the player usually ends up with a nominal amount of AGI on each character by the end of the game. This makes it nearly impossible to flee a battle or evade an attack. What's worse: You could not equip a shield, or a heavy suit or armor, without incuring something like a -80 pt. penalty to either your AGI or your evasion. I can't remember which one. I don't think these penalties were actually made known to the player in any way. There are even certain weapons that incur these kinds of penalties.

I actually brought some of that over to Escheron, but not in such extremes. I think the *idea* of equipping heavy items incurring penalties to AGI does make sense, but I only incurred penalties like -5 or -15 AGI. Axes and heavy armor are the main offenders. Axes are so unwieldy that they slightly penalize evasion. This would mostly only impact you around the beginning of the game, but isn't enough to make you wish you had never picked-up an axe in the first place. Plus, the trade-off seems fair - you get a ton of damage output, but you can't evade attacks as often as before. Relevant examples:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Axes         | DAM | DEF | WIS | AGI | Hit | EVA | mHP | Character Gain
--------------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----------------------
 Francesca    | +22 | ... | ... | ... | +56 | -02 | ... | +2 STR, (none), -1 AGI
 Ogrish Axe   | +36 | ... | ... | ... | +56 | -04 | ... | +4 STR, (none), -1 AGI
 Stormrender  | +44 | ... | +04 | ... | +56 | -04 | ... | +2 STR, (none), -1 AGI
 Stonecutter  | +64 | ... | ... | ... | +48 | -04 | ... | +2 STR, (none), -1 AGI
 Ruinous Axe  | +72 | +04 | ... | ... | +48 | -04 | ... | +2 STR, (none), -1 AGI
 Atlantis Axe | +88 | +08 | +04 | ... | +48 | -04 | ... | +4 STR, +1 STR, -1 AGI

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Armour  L.4  | DAM | DEF | WIS | AGI | Hit | EVA | mHP | Character Gain
--------------+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----+-----------------------
 Brigandine   | ... | +14 | ... | ... | ... | +02 | +12 | +2 mHP, +1 STA, (none)
 Coat of Mail | ... | +20 | ... | -10 | ... | -02 | +20 | +4 mHP, +1 STA, -1 AGI
 Drachen Mail | ... | +22 | ... | -10 | ... | -02 | +20 | +6 mHP, +2 STA, -1 AGI
 Mirror Mail  | ... | +28 | ... | -10 | ... | -02 | +20 | +6 mHP, +2 STA, -1 AGI
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 30, 2010, 01:01:41 pm
Interesting stuff. For sure, FF2 hides a lot of secrets. I will most likely need to check online for how it works and stuff in overall if I want to replay it again. I also remember the blood swords that killed the final boss in two hits or something x.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on March 30, 2010, 01:08:59 pm
I also remember the blood swords that killed the final boss in two hits or something x.x

Heh. I also carried that mechanic over to Escheron. If you find the Dainsleif, (our version of the Blood Sword, basically) it's very effective against humanoid opponents. The sword is otherwise very weak, and does not benefit from proficiency bonuses. (i.e., you don't get any attack multipliers or bonus damage under normal circumstances)

FF2's system was not only broken, but it was also buggy. There are weapon and armor properties that either don't function like they're supposed to, or simply don't function at all. An example is the Ripper dagger: It's supposed to unleash four additional attacks at something like 1/4 normal damage output. This damage would ignore the defense of the target, making the weapon extremely useful for bypassing enemy defenses altogether. In many circumstances, it was impossible to damage an enemy unless you used a specific weapon or spell. This was constant throughout the entire game. You could be attempting to hack away at a dragon with dual Masamunes in full Genji armor, and not inflict any damage to the creature. The only way you would ever harm it is if you were lucky enough to score a critical hit, which also ignores defense. In fact, dual-wielding Rippers would be more effective than any other weapon in the game - if they actually worked. :P The game reports the damage bonus, but doesn't actually inflict it.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 30, 2010, 02:36:02 pm
Yeah in FF1 NES I also remember a lot of bugs too. Loads of spells that did nothing at all. I think FFVI had some broken properties, too, like under vanish status aliment, instant death spells were guaranteed to work on every enemy, even bosses.

In FF2 I am sure blood sword/energy absorb from regular attacks was broken a lot, because normally attacks would do like 1000 damage, but with energy absorbs, these attacks often did in the 5000s, even against enemies that were not that weak against that magic x.x, same when I got attacked.

I believe some of my calc RPGs have broken stuff too x.x. I think the worst part is The Reign Of Legends 2 STEAL command. The lower your LV compared to the enemy LV, the lower the chances stealing will succeed. However, a bug causes the command to work 100% of the time. I should really fix that one day x.x

There was also a story-driven battle in Mystique RPG where you could not win at all, but IIRC this game supported New Game +, like in Chrono Trigger, or had a part with fast grinding allowing you to level up very high early in the game if you were patient enough and when trying to fight this boss at LV 99, the battle lasted a ridiculous amount of time. In this battle, the boss speed was made in a way that you would never ever get a chance to attack. At LV99, the boss attacked like 100 times or more, if I remember.

In Illusiat 7, you chosen between four characters at the game start, but in the end, it made no difference on the game. They had the same abilities and almost the same leveling up rate. They just started at different stats (on a level up you had to choose which stat you want to raise)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on March 30, 2010, 05:58:43 pm
I guess bugs are just more occurrent with RPGs, given the large code base. So many statistics and integers to input...

It's kind of interesting how some bugs are so important to the balance of the game itself that they're intentionally included in later ports or remakes. :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 30, 2010, 06:07:55 pm
True, it's just so many things to take care of. There can even be bugs involving skipping entire game sections. In Illusiat 3 you can skip 60% of the final battle and the entire ending part (not that there are really any ending, tho). Balance-wise, it's just very hard to have difficulty remain consistent or gradual;ly harder as game progresses. In Illusiat series, to save on RAM usage, I made enemy stats dynamic. I'll show an example eventually, in the games walkthroughs section. It's much smaller than coding each monster data one by one, but it sure leads to balance issues.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on March 30, 2010, 06:31:14 pm
...
There's also a small set of default gains associated with each character. Regardless of what you have equipped, Maya always has a chance to gain a small amount of WIS. Examples:

+1 WIS, +1 AGI, +1 mHP - Maya's default growth
+1 STA, +1 mHP, +1 STR - Edmund's default growth

...
Wait? There was supposed to be a default gain associated with each character?

Duh... whoops.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 30, 2010, 06:32:52 pm
(he wanted to add a Netham secret char who has  stats set to reset to 1 every level D:... bad iambian!)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on March 30, 2010, 06:45:46 pm
...
There's also a small set of default gains associated with each character. Regardless of what you have equipped, Maya always has a chance to gain a small amount of WIS. Examples:

+1 WIS, +1 AGI, +1 mHP - Maya's default growth
+1 STA, +1 mHP, +1 STR - Edmund's default growth

...
Wait? There was supposed to be a default gain associated with each character?

Duh... whoops.

Err, what did you do? o_0
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 30, 2010, 06:47:52 pm
I am worried :O

Hoping it's nothing too hard to change, though x.x, but I guess that can happen ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on March 30, 2010, 06:49:17 pm
(he wanted to add a Netham secret char who has  stats set to reset to 1 every level D:... bad iambian!)
No way! Bad DJ! Bad bad DJ for expos... erh.

Getting back to the things, I've got it set up so any losses of any kind won't go below 5 for AGI, STR, WIS, and STA (in no particular order) and not below 10 for mHP. I may alter this if need be, but the lower limits are set. The upper limit is based on the rank of the monsters you are fighting.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on March 30, 2010, 06:50:14 pm
That sounds really cool!  I'm glad this is progressing! ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on March 31, 2010, 11:17:42 am
Can't take a cherry-flavoured dragon with a cactuar for an avatar seriously. No, wait. Really. Read that one aloud.

Just need to fix that one little routine, but the debug routine shows that you can correctly gain stats after the game eats the enemies. Except character-specific default gains. Still need to do that. Yes, Zera, I have the information in the design docs.

Then all that would need to be done is ... well. Handling item drops. And the liek. Gotta figure out how that will be done later (now).

Actually, now that I think about it, I might as well replace "DT Punch Bag" with "DT Netham45". Loads of HP, nonexistent everything else. No playable character cameo. Sorry.

If I had the space to do it, I probably *would* have a lobster sprite for that. If I wanted to add it in, it would only be accessible via Iambic Check's monster summon ability (coming soon!). Which means it would only be available to early beta testers. After all, the purpose of a punchbag is to determine how stat adjustments affect damage output and other conditions. Might have to go with a memory editor just for that purpose. Oh, gawd. How that would be insane. Might not do it. But who knows? </(e)ndlessrambling>
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 31, 2010, 02:42:16 pm
wait will there be a Netham45 secret boss? :O or is it a test battle? :O
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on March 31, 2010, 06:54:07 pm
wait will there be a Netham45 secret boss? :O or is it a test battle? :O
Test battle. Against an immobile object with serious regenerative powers. Each char is supposed to be capped to 1024 dmg (good luck if I acutally observe that). DT Netham45 will regenerate close to 6000HP in a round. Good luck killing *that*.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 31, 2010, 11:06:44 pm
Wow that will be hard :O it will remind me trying to beat the Emperor in FFII with no blood sword without using any protection magic. The boss absorbed like 5000 HP every hit and you hit for like 2000 per round x.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on April 01, 2010, 07:26:53 pm
I believe there may be a big problem with the project.

Since I've put the lobster in the game, it seems to have grown a mind of its own and started pinching away at some of the sprite data. Jealous, I guess. On another note, additional cherry-flavoured dragons has been nomming so much on the code that the backups are ravaged, and the project cannot continue. SubaruZX has not been keeping them in the closet as of late.

I'm sorry. I need some time to boil a few lobsters, reign in the cherry-flavoured dragons and keep them from nomming the cherry-flavoured code. Only then can I rebuild the project, but it won't be pretty. It'll be like it was half a year ago, if I'm lucky.
Poor April Fool's day post! (shows up in IE. lol)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 01, 2010, 07:29:29 pm
D:
/me eats Iambian

that should fix it :P (else waiting about five more hours might, as well)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on April 02, 2010, 10:54:21 am
D=
* ZTrumpet gives his favorite cherry flavored dragon a cherry. ;D
Title: Revelation - April 1st is (way) over.
Post by: Iambian on April 03, 2010, 12:54:25 am
Ehh. Found an older backup. Funny thing is that Zera had a backup right before the incident, so nothing was really lost.

I guess this means I can go ahead and code in the rest of the sequence, including treasure-get and maybe throwing together an enemy sprite renderer. After that, "all" that needs to be done is write everything else for the battle engine. Like, you know. The whole aspect of being able to battle. Instead of letting the game do the fighting for you.

Also, poor Apr 1 joke. But still. SubaruZX must really learn to keep his closet dragons in check. On another note, I wonder what happens if I change that field up above where it says "Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth"? Does it move off to another topic? Does it just change the title of this post? Does it change everything else? I dunno. That's why I'm trying it!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 03, 2010, 01:01:52 am
Wait so is it a joke or is it real? x.x I hope it's the former. I kinda expected a joke but yeah x.x

And if you change the topic title or a post subject, it will be posted in this topic fine. Posts locations are based on topic IDs, not titles
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on April 03, 2010, 01:13:05 am
Wait so is it a joke or is it real? x.x I hope it's the former. I kinda expected a joke but yeah x.x

And if you change the topic title or a post subject, it will be posted in this topic fine. Posts locations are based on topic IDs, not titles
To make it clear, yeah. It was a joke. I wanted to keep playing with the code nomming because it *really* does taste of cherries!

Also, that's good to know about the whole post topic thingie. Now I won't be afraid to use it more often.

EDIT: Biscuit, rawr.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 03, 2010, 01:38:43 am
Yeah it's similar to PHPBB forums really, or Ticalc news articles comments.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on April 06, 2010, 06:38:23 pm
Movin' some strings across pages. Making more room so I can throw together an actual battle system. Perhaps changing a few basic things about, say, how maps are loaded. All will take some time.

Yesterday was tough. A simple task like moving strings to another page turned out to be way more difficult than it should've been. It was done, though. That was the good thing. Progress... eh.

When I get down the enemy sprite drawing thing, I may show up a screenshot of how the game beats down the enemy and you get gains. Argh. Now that reminds me of unifying the item get thing. Need to work on that too.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on April 06, 2010, 06:48:24 pm
I'm not sure if we touched-down on this, but are you going to add any sort of animation to the enemy sprites? If an enemy executed an attack, for instance, then would the enemy sprite flash to indicate that the enemy is taking an action?

I remember we did masking for all of these sprites a while back. I figured this is probably the reason why.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on April 06, 2010, 09:52:59 pm
We discussed masking a while back but I don't think I ever got these masks. What the masks would be used for would be to invert the sprite's colors sort of like how they did it in FF6 when an enemy was about to attack. In E:SoR, we wouldn't need enemy-specific masks if we just blinked the enemy sprite on and off.

On another note, I finished moving the magic names to page 4 and added in a few ... others ... just in case the Full Metal Mode ever made it off the ground. Yes Zera, I'm entertaining the idea of equipping to a robot the "Accelerator" and having it use the program "Nuclear Array". Sounds epic :D

At the moment, I'm constructing the stuff needed for obtaining the items, especially in case there's a full inventory condition. I'm thinking about how to go about doing that. One thought would be to automatically add in a 33rd slot so you can see what it was you're getting *and* be able to use it if need be (if the item you got is a consumable item) so you stand less of a chance of wasting something. At the moment, the item you're getting would remain unusable until it actually made it to your inventory and just tell players to suck it up if their inventory got too full to make something they wanted usable. (HINT: Keep your inventory open and sell off equipment you're not using)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 06, 2010, 11:23:34 pm
Enemies animations would be cool. Btw is it still dragon warrior style, where you don't see your char during battle? It leaves more space for enemy sprite in this case.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on April 06, 2010, 11:45:02 pm
Yeah. Battles are first-person perspective. All you see is the window, verbose descriptions of actions taken during battle, and enemy sprites. Up to two enemies can appear in a single battle. (both sprites displayed separately)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 06, 2010, 11:47:16 pm
Ok cool. Do you see a weapon animation when enemy is attacked or do you see a slash/explosion/etc through it? Also when you get attacked, does the screen shake?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on April 06, 2010, 11:51:16 pm
Here's what I originally planned, in that respect:

 - Enemy would blink when attacked, or when it executes an attack

 - Either the entire window would blink when a character (or the entire party) was attacked, or the screen would shake

 - Spell animations would consist of screen-flashing and shaking effects

I'm not sure what Iambian is going to do, though. I guess it depends on how taxing the effects are, and what's really most feasible.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 06, 2010, 11:58:13 pm
Aaaah I see. Maybe some small magic animations like fire or ice, even if short, could spice things up. About enemy flashing, keep in mind on calc the grayscale takes a bit to update, so the flashing shouldn,t be too fast. I wonder if it would look cool if Imabian cycled through shades of gray/white/black, like in some SNES games. I liked that :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on April 07, 2010, 12:13:38 am
It wouldn't be difficult to create a few animation assets. Off the top of my head, we would need:

 - Single bitmap of a fire animation, flipped back and forth to give the illusion of a burning effect

 - Single bitmap of a snowflake / icicle, blinking on top of targets to indicate ice-based spells

 - A bolt of lightning, flipped back and forth to give the illusion of a lightning-strike

Each of these may need to be masked. They could possibly be handled in a similar fashion as character sprites, which use 3-level grayscale. The fourth gray is sort of reserved as a mask, or a value that the system reads as transparent. I'm not quite sure how Iambian handled that.

Either way - I'm not sure if we even have the memory. This is entirely up to Iambian, since he knows more about this than I do. I don't want to propose any additions that are going to make the process much more complicated.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 07, 2010, 12:32:04 am
I don't think so few frames/sprites should take too much memory, but again I don't know either how much memory left there is in the data pages. I guess we will need to have his say on the matter.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on April 07, 2010, 12:34:19 am
I think the biggest complications would result from compression. Trying to insert any new data, as far as I know, is really difficult.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 07, 2010, 12:53:51 am
Oh, ok, maybe he has to compress it manually. That must be hectic if it's the case x.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on April 07, 2010, 11:30:23 am
Or, it would just sit there uncompressed so it can be recalled whenever I need. Or if compressed, in a completely different "file" of the game.

Hehe. Confession time.

I'm not worried about space in the application at all. What I'm worried about is being able to access whatever I want on the same page and not have to deal with page flipping just to get to the data that I want. Or having to shuffle data around the application to make something else that has a higher priority on some page fit there.

I'm sure a few battle animations outside of what was originally planned could be worked in. Why, then it would make use of those reserved command codes that I kept just for such an occasion...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 07, 2010, 12:15:37 pm
Mhmm nice ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on April 07, 2010, 01:19:08 pm
lol, you reserved command codes for them already? Planning for any other contingencies I don't know about yet? :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 07, 2010, 04:22:04 pm
/me hopes it,s not the rickroll ._.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on April 27, 2010, 11:34:53 pm
The crickets are chirping in this thread :P

No. I've been spending some time learning some C so I can write utilities that would help automate the rebuild process for the assets in the game. So far, I can perform the following with a double-click:

(1) Rebuild all the tilemaps directly from their .gsm (calcgs tilemap) format
(2) Rebuild all the item/magic descriptions from their uncompressed source

At some point, I'm going to want to build a utility to do something similar to image assets so I can have all that mess be automatically included into the project. Might have to allocate yet another page file for that mess so I don't accidentally run out of space or something (since things are more automated now). That would bring the project up to 6 pages long (98304 bytes). I think that's still below the threshold for complaints, as I recall DJ Omnimaga stating that Ti-Connect (serial) has problems with filesizes over... uh. I think it was 130KB?

So... in short. I learned a lesson.

If you want to code a massive RPG in ASM, it would do you well to know C so you can build some utilities that will help assemble your assets.

EDIT: I also still have to do item-get thing. And then the rest of the battle system. After all this time, I still haven't forgotten.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 27, 2010, 11:38:17 pm
I'm glad this isn't dead. Until I heard about the C utilities I got kinda worried x.x

Hopefully this should make progress much faster and easier ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: tr1p1ea on April 28, 2010, 07:56:38 am
Cool bananas!

It is very handy to be able to whip up utilities when you need them, saves a hell of a lot of time and headaches.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Galandros on April 28, 2010, 03:28:10 pm
It is very handy to be able to whip up utilities when you need them, saves a hell of a lot of time and headaches.
I think is very cool we (programmers) can do our tools to help ourselves and maybe others.

I really enjoy giving use to technology.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 06, 2010, 10:58:41 pm
Got item-get conditions fully squared away. Now packrats no longer have to fear about losing important stuff that may make the game unwinnable, like key items.

Now, I've got to throw together enemy sprite display as part of the screen rebuild.

After that, it'll be time to throw together some sort of command queue structure and start coding the meat and potatoes of this battle engine.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 07, 2010, 12:11:28 am
WOw I'm happy battle coding is starting soon! I can't wait for more progress (and screenshots)

Btw did you finish writing C tools for yourself to help project dev?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on May 08, 2010, 11:40:10 am
[...] Btw did you finish writing C tools for yourself to help project dev?
I'm done with that as far as I can tell. If I need to write up anything else, I should be able to do it using what I already have.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 08, 2010, 12:17:31 pm
Aah good to hear, so this means more progress on E:SoR soon? :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 01, 2010, 10:12:13 pm
Escheron misses me. I plan on getting something done this week, so...

That is all I've gotta say on that subject.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 01, 2010, 10:18:13 pm
It would be awesome, I was worried it was dying or something ;.;
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 03, 2010, 11:43:51 pm
This is a screenshot of what was going to be my Axe Parser entry for the contest. Couldn't keep it in any longer.


... j/k. Just made a little progress. Mostly graphical. Again. Best viewed in Opera or Firefox. Nevermind the portrait I used for the "DevTeam" special character.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 03, 2010, 11:46:09 pm
Lol nice one :P

And darn that looks awesome. Nice to see this is still alive :D

Love the transitions and stuff

ALso nice anon reference in the menu :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 03, 2010, 11:48:30 pm
Horray for progress! Looking good Iambian!/me gives Iambian a cherry.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: {AP} on June 03, 2010, 11:53:29 pm
That's freakin' amazing. =O

Why is the DevTeam the V mask? o.o

And why is Escheron always getting in the way of the battles? You can fight for yourself. D<
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 03, 2010, 11:56:55 pm
Because you lost the game
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 03, 2010, 11:58:46 pm
Escheron isn't getting in the way. The game is helping you not lose! (Though I suspect *you* just did :P )

Really, it's because I don't have a battle engine coded in quite yet. That's what Escheron's doing at the moment. What *is* going on is the battle being started and what happens when you are victorious.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 04, 2010, 12:03:48 am
Lol I understand XD

It's fun when devs put in funny stuff when features are not added yet in their games, though :)

It could use moar mudkipz, though. I herd u liek them.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: {AP} on June 04, 2010, 12:13:44 am
Mudkips?
(http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/9684/mukip.png)

Seriously though, I knew that. Just didn't want my post to only be another 'zomg, this is amazing!' post. =)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on June 09, 2010, 01:18:19 pm
Wow, Iambian!  That's amazing!  I'd forgotten how much I want ESoR!  Excellent job. :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 17, 2010, 09:09:57 pm
Todo: Two more menus, one of which is basically re-using an old one with different outputs. And... the rest of the battle system. Gotta get the enemies to input commands into the command queue. Then I've gotta write the code that processes the queue and pretty much does the fighting. Escheron, your days of getting in the way are numbered! Ya hear me! YOU'RE GOING DOWN!
... *ahem*.../me regains composure
Maybe early next week. Maybe.
Then the promise of getting focused copies out to select members of the community might actually materialize.
My time at the location I'm presently visiting is running short, so no screenshots of what it looks like. That's gonna go into another topic. For asking opinions about it. And stuff.
...
Yeah. Let's go with that.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 17, 2010, 10:10:25 pm
Still, nice to see some progress, though :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on June 17, 2010, 11:05:53 pm
Once the battle engine is done, that leaves... the sprite routine, events and dialog? I would say the battle engine would at least put us around 50% completion.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 17, 2010, 11:36:42 pm
I really can't wait for the battle engine. I meant to do a Youtube vid of the game for over a year, now :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: meishe91 on June 17, 2010, 11:37:05 pm
Very cool. I wish you luck with further progress :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 05, 2010, 02:14:46 pm
Ehh. It's been quite a while. I've actually been slacking off with the whole battle engine thing. What I *have* been doing is enabling the use of items and magick from the pause menu, so you can heal yourself (among other things) before and after battle.

I've also been discussing with Zera about changing the behaviour of a spell (mostly) for your guys' benefit. But you're so totally screwed if you get stuck at the bottom of the Undersea Shrine ...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on July 05, 2010, 04:17:34 pm
Egression should now transport the party to the last floor they visited, as opposed to removing them from a dungeon entirely. Before, the spell had too many restrictions on its usage. If there were multiple entrances to a dungeon, there was no way you could use the spell to exit, as you could strand yourself from your only means of transportation. (i.e., parking you ship near one entrance, but teleporting out of another) Since leaving a dungeon might require multiple egressions, the HP penalty was also removed. Before, the spell shaved off 60% of your current HP per casting.

There was hardly any incentive to use it in its previous state. Very many areas restricted you from casting it at all, and those that didn't were fairly easy dungeons. It was certainly not worth the HP penalty to even bother.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 05, 2010, 04:25:04 pm
I think it's a better idea to have it go back to previous floor. Else it makes some dungeons way too easy and having the spell restricted at most places almost makes it useless.

Anyway nice to see some updates, even if they are not big
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on July 05, 2010, 09:16:23 pm
Yay progress!/me gives Iambian a couplea cherries for inspiration on the battle system.
^^.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on July 05, 2010, 09:55:37 pm
Yay, progress is right!  I wish you lots of luck on the Battle Engine!  ;D  I know from Elmgon how hard they are to write. :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 19, 2010, 12:06:27 am
I'm taking a break from the battle engine. And by that, I mean I'm two weeks into that break. Instead, I've been working on, of all things, shopping. I've also noted that this thread has grown a little ... uh. Cold. So I intend on warming it up again by showing you guys (and maybe gals) what I have down so far.

[1] Complete ability to shop for items. And sell off your stuff too.
[2] Partial ability to buy magic. You can see what you have and your eligibility, but that menu's still not done.
[3] Simplistic sleeping at an INN. At the moment, what you have is a placeholder, but it serves is main function.

What isn't done with respect to shopping:

[1] Refinement and completion of shopping for magick, as stated above.
[2] Buying spell charges at the Goddess statues.

So...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on July 19, 2010, 12:12:19 am
What an awesome job!  Keep it up!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Builderboy on July 19, 2010, 01:12:18 am
Screenshots continue to amaze, as usual!  ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on July 19, 2010, 01:24:26 am
As a note: Spells have a Wisdom requirement before a character can learn them. The current gameplay demonstration references this, by indicating whether a character is knowledgeable enough to learn a spell, or not.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on July 19, 2010, 01:45:59 am
Looks great! :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 19, 2010, 06:07:44 pm
Darn, so amazing o.o
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 20, 2010, 12:53:25 am
It's been, like, a day. And the two remaining items on that list are done. Also got other stuff working nice-like.

Though it's not clearly shown, every shop (and inn) is named. Except the Goddess shrines. They're treated as shops (you gotta donate to get MP), but they've all got the same title. Since they're like statues and there isn't enough room for me to reasonably name its location along with the title I want for the thing.

If you want to know what the shrine shop thinger looks like, stop wondering. It looks just like the inn, except for some context-sensitive information. You want more MP? Just keep donating. Everyone gets a single charge per donation. And it's... only... 80GP. Magick ain't free :P

So, next up. The battle engine.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 20, 2010, 12:56:40 am
Glad to see new progress! I hope for the battle engine, you'll add some sample enemies or a boss relevant to the game story so I can compile the screenshots and make a Youtube vid like I planned for the past year :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: {AP} on July 20, 2010, 12:57:15 am
So, next up. The battle engine.

The bane of all my RPG projects. D=

Good luck, mate!
(And loving the screenshots)

I think this is easily my most anticipated game to see finished. Don't get me wrong, there are other great games in the works, but I've been following this one the longest and I just get more and more anxious to play it as time goes by.

Oh, and make sure there are plenty of secrets around. False walls, 'ultimate' equipment, etc.
I wanna make sure I can not only beat the game first, but race against the community to find everything else too. =)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 28, 2010, 04:07:45 pm
The code is sorta starting to come together. I've got a basic outline on how the processing will be done. I can (almost) have it output debug information consisting of who's turn is it at what point and information about their commands. If I can get that right, I can then start doing some real stuff like: A uses technique B on C and inflicts D damage. No, not exaclty, but you get the idea.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Raylin on July 28, 2010, 09:21:19 pm
So, next up. The battle engine.

Always, always, ALWAYS tackle the battle engine first.
I can't tell you the countless times the battle engine has stabbed me in the foot.

Good luck, sir.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 29, 2010, 02:58:45 am
I somehow always prefered to work on the in-game menu first, making sure all character stats display right, then put them to use in a battle engine. I tend to prefer working on these two things first, for some reasons. It depends of people , though.

I am glad E:SoR is still progressing. I'll be certain to make a video on Youtube when you post battle screenshots. I would recommend some 27 FPS screenshots
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 02, 2010, 02:53:31 pm
Raylin is right.

Insanity ensues.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on August 02, 2010, 08:43:38 pm
Wow, I never thought the battle engines would be that hard to do...I'm glad that I decided not to write an RPG
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 04, 2010, 09:21:15 pm
They're indeed hectic to code x.x

The reason why Illusiat 9, 10, 11 and 12 as well as ROL2 and Reuben Quest 2 battle engines were easier to code was because they reused many code from previous games
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on August 05, 2010, 09:51:31 am
Battle engines are the hardest thing I've ever coded.  They may not look hard, but there are so many little details that must be perfect.  It's amazing. ;D

Good luck Iambian!
* ZTrumpet chucks a couple hundred cherries at Iambian
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 11, 2010, 06:22:29 pm
Arghablabble.

That will be all.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on August 11, 2010, 06:31:12 pm
Lol, having issues with the battle engine?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 15, 2010, 06:26:29 pm
D:

I hope you don't have too many serious issues with the engine. Good luck Iambian D:
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 17, 2010, 02:19:37 pm
The technical side of this announcement was already done on the Cemetech IRC chan, but I think it's best that you guys get in on what's going on in the world of Escheron.

I've decided to take a small break from the battle engine to work on another aspect of the project: Grayscale routines.

Now, while the current routines are fine and dandy, the code that holds the grayscale steady between tilemap updates is the only run of code that operates at 6MHz instead of 15MHz like the rest of the project. So the idea is to enhance the 6MHz code so it runs fine under 15MHz and does more stuff. What kind of stuff you ask?

In addition to just drawing the screen all grayscaley-like, it does the following:
(1) Apply grayscale layer swapping/shifting/rotating effects without affecting the buffer
(2) Accelerates the tilemapper by preshifting tiles if moving left or right.

While I'm diving into the grayscale routines, I'll spend time looking at the tilemapper routine as well. Maybe I can find some sort of optimization. Or correct some problems. Overall, this is gonna be good. I hope. And if you're worried about the battle engine, please don't. Too much. The screen effects will help cheapen the graphical stuffs that the thing needs to do. Like ... blinky stuff. You get what I mean. I think.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on August 17, 2010, 02:48:59 pm
Sounds great, Iambian!  Keep up the good work!

/me gives Iambian some cherries to give him strength during his project
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 17, 2010, 02:51:19 pm
omnomnom.

Studying code and timings. Paper ftw.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 17, 2010, 06:53:14 pm
Nice to see progress as always ^^

As for grayscale I hope it works out well. I know Quigibo had trouble with 15 MHz grayscale and finally it was removed from Axe.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 18, 2010, 07:25:10 pm
The upgrade is mostly together. Just gotta put in the most important part, which the thing currently runs fine without (options, options. Yeah)

But what I did add in is the screen effects. I liked them, so I did a little screenshot of me messing around with them in the debugger.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on August 18, 2010, 08:01:43 pm
Great job, Iambian!  I love the screenie!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on August 18, 2010, 10:26:28 pm
Wonderful job as always.  I'm looking forward to this game.  Great work! ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: patriotsfan on August 22, 2010, 09:30:43 pm
Wow! Looks good! I like the effects!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 23, 2010, 02:05:47 am
I like them ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 23, 2010, 09:07:00 pm
Crosspost from Cemetech:

Well. I finished upgrading the grayscale routines and added a grayscale config menu that can be accessed from the title screen or the pause menu using the DEL key. The grayscale also appears cleaner in the emulator and the screenshot shows it.

Also, the value for the LCD delay isn't right (hacked save file), but it doesn't affect the emulator anyway. On the real calc, this will be initialized to $27 and can be toggled in increments of 8. Having a value of $00 seems to break the display on the real calc (TI-84 Plus SE) but you can still toggle it back to a good value even though you can't see what's going on.

(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/186/esor62.gif)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on August 23, 2010, 09:17:56 pm
That is sweet!  And, I'm glad you included more graphics than we saw in other screenshots.  This is turning out to be one hot project, Iambian!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 24, 2010, 12:46:15 am
This is amazing. It's nice that we can choose our grayscale settings, due to the different calc hardwares around there.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TsukasaZX on August 24, 2010, 12:48:30 am
I agree with DJ. Grayscale settings are a great idea! Excellent job so far, Iambian :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on August 24, 2010, 08:57:34 am
Wow.  Wonderful job!  I like that menu. ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: thepenguin77 on August 24, 2010, 10:09:52 am
About how many times does the routine update the screen per second. I just ask this because the LCD itself updates at ~60 Hz. So if you do it faster than that, you are actually wasting time.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: calc84maniac on August 24, 2010, 10:23:02 am
Yeah, an LCD delay value of less than $0C doesn't work (it will blank the screen, like you said).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 26, 2010, 06:03:13 pm
I've written up information of how the fight command will be processed. Take a look at it if you want. Questions or comments are appreciated.

The information is in the file attached to this post, btw.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Raylin on August 26, 2010, 06:05:19 pm
I'm stealing your algorithms.

Where did you get them from?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 26, 2010, 06:06:57 pm
Compiled them from the design documentation that Zera forwarded to me at the beginning of this project.

Please don't steal. Borrow and credit :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Raylin on August 26, 2010, 06:13:20 pm
I was kidding. :P
I just wanted to know if you made them from scratch and such.
Could I perhaps see said design doc?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 26, 2010, 08:07:05 pm
I should take a look at this some time. I am curious how you did some of your battle stuff. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on August 28, 2010, 09:02:52 am
Newest screenie looks awesome. I'll look at the battle doc when I have some time. I love battle engines. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on August 31, 2010, 08:38:11 pm
Laptop backlight totally broke, so progress on E:SoR has been halted for a while. This post was made by creative use of a flashlight, so that's now I'm making this statement. Ordering a new cable or trying to actually fix the problem is now a priority. During this downtime, I'll be working on an interface for CaDan's level editor or something that doesn't require being on a computer. I hope you guys understand.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 31, 2010, 08:52:49 pm
Ouch it seems like you don't have much luck with this laptop :/

Good luck and I hope you get it fixed :/

As for CaDan it would be awesome, you should add a new topic about it in the CaDan thread when you got some progress ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on August 31, 2010, 10:02:27 pm
I'm glad that you at least didn't lose yoru work
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Runer112 on September 04, 2010, 07:59:00 pm
This is sort of off-topic, but I've always wondered this. The grayscale routines supplied in Axe don't play nicely with interrupts, so how do yours work? I know many other grayscale games have interrupt settings, just like yours. How exactly do the interrupts play in, and when is the screen updating taking place?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 04, 2010, 08:18:27 pm
Well, this is not an Axe project but rather an ASM one. I am not sure why the Axe ones won't run nicely with interrupts, though, considering grayscale routines have used interrupts for years on the 83+. Durk's grayscale package (used for Desolate), which came out in Jan 2003 as the first grayscale routines for the 83+, uses interrupts. I am curious how Iambian does it, though, because I remember he told me something implying the entire game was an interrupt.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on September 05, 2010, 12:07:40 am
DJ Omnimaga is right about the entire game running in a huge interrupt. But to really answer the question, the screen update is happening during an interrupt.

The reason why you update the screen at an interrupt is so that the screen is updated at a consistent rate, partially independent of whatever else the program is doing. Interrupt settings are there because sometimes the screen just doesn't display right at some interrupt frequencies. Now, more than ever, we've come to the realization that these calculators are not made equal, so there's gotta be a way for users to adjust conditions in case the grayscale appears crappy on your calculator.

As for the question about Axe, DJ Omnimaga is also right with the respect that this is a "pure" ASM project (Flashapp), and not an Axe project. As for why Axe doesn't play nice with the interrupts, you might want to direct your questions more to Quigibo (SP?) or someone else who's knowledgeable about Axe. I believe there's a subforum somewhere on this board that handles Axe exclusively.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 05, 2010, 12:31:21 am
Oh he knows about the sub-forum. About 98% of his forum posts are there ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on October 02, 2010, 12:22:59 pm
Coding the battle engine resumes Monday October 4, 2010.
The game is planned to be released by December 25, 2010.
So yeah. Cutting the CaDanITE project a little short for the time being.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on October 02, 2010, 09:55:26 pm
Cool.  Good luck! ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: meishe91 on October 02, 2010, 10:10:42 pm
Sweet! Good luck :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 03, 2010, 04:58:20 am
Wow nice to see this is still alive. I was a bit scared when you said stuff like not talking to you about E:SoR progress for a while or something similar. I thought it might have an uncertain future x.x

Good luck!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on October 13, 2010, 12:48:28 am
Bump. Small bit of progress. (crossposted to Cemetech)

Working on an automatic re-target function for E:SoR's battle engine. The specifics are as follows:
1. Obtain target flags for those that are still alive.
2. Invert flags if you're trying to target the dead.
3. Compare (AND) with what you are actually trying to target.
4. Load target flags back to attack slot and return IF the AND function returns nonzero.
5. Attempt to re-target based on probable use (i.e. If target a character who's dead, try someone else)
6. If attempting to find a target fails, change character action to "Parry". Note that this *can* happen under certain circumstances without the battle engine declaring victory or defeat.

So... Yeah. I haven't got point #5 down quite yet. Point #6 should be easy once #5 is done.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 13, 2010, 02:45:26 am
YAY! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
/me is glad this is still alive :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on October 22, 2010, 10:27:26 pm
Automatic retargeting has been completed. It seems to work, though I am quite unsure of how it actually will in practice. It'll likely work. Details of this (though not much has been said about it) can be found somewhere on the Cemetech boards.

Next, gotta figure out how enemy skills and flags are put together when they use 'em. It might have been done already, but still gotta make sure.

Then, I'll start putting the damage calculations into code.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: guy6020665 on October 22, 2010, 10:28:08 pm
Yay! Progress!!!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 22, 2010, 10:50:57 pm
Good luck! Also I am glad you are adding automatic retargetting. The lack of it in FF1/2 on the NES and Lufia 1 on the SNES made battles a bit annoying. X.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: guy6020665 on October 22, 2010, 11:17:27 pm
I remember that there was one RPG that i got so annoyed with and stopped playing it because of it's lack of auto-retargeting, I'm way too used to just hitting Attack all on one unit.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 10, 2010, 12:00:43 am
Haven't progressed much. What I've planned for the meantime is pretty much a simple routine, which should take all of five minutes to code:

A routine that checks the availability of participants. You know. Just so you don't run into anything about dead guys doing stuff. Or if you revive some guy in the middle of a round and the guy hasn't had his/her/its turn yet.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 10, 2010, 12:09:16 am
Ah ok, I checked Cemetech earlier but unfortunately I didn't get what it meant ???

Nice to see there's still some minor progress/thoughts, though.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on November 27, 2010, 10:38:00 pm
I keep meaning to add things to the code, but I've never gotten around to doing it yet. Just haven't been able to bring myself to do it. Been playing too much Persona 3 (FES).

I haven't lost track of the project, but I did notice that my memory slipped a little bit on the placement of my notes. Remembered that I wrote them into a .txt file instead of the standard on-paper things. The on-paper were the early notes.

So there will be damage calculation and the other stuff going. I've got to plan how I'm going to implement skills, since there's quite a few and some do special things.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: shmibs on November 27, 2010, 11:31:12 pm
/\heh, P3FES is so ridiculous and addicting. i'm still ashamed of myself for purchasing the multi-disk ost

yay for progress!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 28, 2010, 09:36:31 pm
As long as this is still alive and progressing every now and then ^^

I'm really looking forward for this game. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on December 08, 2010, 12:03:30 am
/me entices Iambian with some Cherries to nom on.
 Just wondering, but how many app pages is ESOR currently sitting at? I really need to go through and look at that info you posted a while back on the battle system too... maybe tonite. =D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on December 24, 2010, 11:32:28 pm
Sorry guys. Progress is going to have to wait. For a while.

I'm rebooting the project, this time, to have a much more sane page management system. I'm using SPASM as my assembler, so this is going to ease those cross-page woes that has plagued the original project. TASM just isn't cut out for this sort of thing.

The real reason why I'm doing this is because space was quickly running out on the page I needed everything to be and I was afraid I couldn't add in any more. It's not just the data that was killing me, but the fact that I couldn't forward-reference routines from across page boundaries. I had some nasty kludges to help overcome that, but even then, the scheme was running very close to its limit. In its current state, the project simply could not continue. Even if I had finished the battle system, I'd have no way to add in events or NPC dialog.

On another note, Athena can stay right where it is. It's practically functional, and I don't intend on messing with it, at least not until I can get E:SoR running (functionally) back to the way it was.

While I'm at it, I might as well redo the entire menu system, since I've learned a whole lot more about menus. And now that I'm able to cross-reference pages, I'm able to clean up quite a few things with it. I mean, the amount of code and data was scary. 10KB ought not to be used to simply drive the menu system. Another 16KB ought not be used to form all that textual data. I need to deal with this in a smarter way.

Also, while I'm at it, I might as well recode some things to provide myself much saner data structures. I ought not need small routines just to transform numbers to something that can be plugged into another routine when these numbers should have been "right" to begin with.

So...

What I'm trying to say is that I'm overhauling the whole thing. I've got the knowledge now to do what I needed to do in the beginning. I now know C, which helps in dealing with data that I never wanted to see or hear of again. And I can now produce something that I can truly be proud of, not only of its magnitude, but of how it was coded.

It is time to restart. It is time to renew. It is time to make sure the game that should've been done last year run to completion this upcoming year. Wish me luck.

------------
To answer a previously asked question, E:SoR was at 5 pages and quickly growing into a sixth page.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on December 24, 2010, 11:47:59 pm
Good luck, Iambian!  Starting fresh is a great idea, but don't overwork yourself as well :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on December 25, 2010, 05:00:36 am
While it is disappointing that we will have to wait longer for this awesome game, I'm sure it'll be well worth the wait. Good luck indeed, looking forward to seeing this rebooted! =)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on December 26, 2010, 12:53:49 am
Oh, gawd. Now I remember what it was like to throw in a mass of code just to see *anything* going. I'm still working on the text input/output routines. I'll probably just throw in the LCD writing routine and have it go from there.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 26, 2010, 02:46:53 am
Darn I'm sorry to hear. Try to not fall into the endless-rewrite loop, though. Some people keep rewriting their projects 5 or 6 times, which ends up killing it. I guess the first time it can be inevitable, though. I hope you don't give up :(
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on December 29, 2010, 12:51:46 am
I won't give up. Using SPASM is just such a good opportunity now that I know a bit more about it is something I can't pass up :)

EDIT: If the project gets rewritten again, I'm not sure what I'd do with myself. It's a (near) perfect environment as it is.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 30, 2010, 03:25:12 am
Ok good to hear :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Builderboy on December 30, 2010, 03:42:25 am
Aw sad to hear you have like scrapped 5-6 pages of hard work but its good to hear that you are starting anew and that it will be much more efficient and better coded :) Good luck!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: squidgetx on December 30, 2010, 12:21:46 pm
Good luck Iambian! I'll be looking forward to this :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on December 30, 2010, 08:33:32 pm
Aw sad to hear you have like scrapped 5-6 pages of hard work but its good to hear that you are starting anew and that it will be much more efficient and better coded :) Good luck!
It's not like I totally scrapped the entire project. There's quite a bit of code that's being copied from the old project. The vast majority of the driving routines like the text and tilemappers are coming in without very many modifications. I'm just putting a new spin on things so I can get cross-page data access working. All of the data management routines that handle things like character stats will have to be rewritten but only because I'm choosing a different way of handling that sort of stuff. The way I had it before wasn't based off of anything that was really in the project so routines had to be made to deal with the inconsistencies. The rebuild aims to do away with all of that.

While I'm at the rebuild, I'm also aiming to make the display a bit... cleaner. I'm redoing the menu system (this'll be the third time), so the project might hang a little on that, but nothing too bad. The flexibility in being able to access data from any page of the project eases quite a few woes. I'll be able to code in a menu system without worrying about available code space, since it can now be thrown all over the project. Pages can be added without worry, since SPASM will handle that mess.

As far as restructuring the data goes... Crimson Editor's column edit mode is starting to look shiner and shiner. Didn't think it could ever get *that* shiny :P

----
As far as progress goes, I'm building this shiny printf macro that'll handle all my text needs, so I won't have to have a mishmash of ASM code and data to build menu elements and format them the way I want them to. It'll be handled as it should've always been. It should have been handled as data. Okay, so the menu system will slow a little because it's not buffered, but it should all be good. If it becomes a problem, I'll have it handled a slightly different way, probably by making good use of the new and improved interrupt scheme.

Oooh, I had this thought that might accelerate loading of parts of the game. It involves running the pucrunch decompressor as a background service so by the time the information is needed, it'll either have been already loaded or close to being loaded. Still thinking about how it would work, tho.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on December 30, 2010, 10:32:18 pm
Oooh, I had this thought that might accelerate loading of parts of the game. It involves running the pucrunch decompressor as a background service so by the time the information is needed, it'll either have been already loaded or close to being loaded. Still thinking about how it would work, tho.
Interrupts? :D

I'm glad this is going well. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Builderboy on December 31, 2010, 01:43:00 am
Ah sounds good :D And i don't think super speed is really a neccesity for menu's really :P Even 1 FPS can work since you really aren't doing anything really intensive.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2010, 07:02:29 pm
Nice Iambian :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 01, 2011, 12:35:43 am
Ah sounds good :D And i don't think super speed is really a neccesity for menu's really :P Even 1 FPS can work since you really aren't doing anything really intensive.
It's not the speed of the menu that's worrying me. The lag can cause grayscale quality issues when the screen needs a large update. I see the inventory doing this in spades. I'm hoping to do something with the renderer that'll increase speed, but I'm not sure exactly what.

I should get something working first before I say anything about it.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 01, 2011, 08:47:14 pm
Does that slow down occurs between two menus? If so, why not just make the entire screen black before loading starts? Most console games did that, unlike calc games.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: squidgetx on January 02, 2011, 11:03:20 am
I think he means that the slowdown would occur just in general while looking at/using a menu. I had this issue as well with the bag in Ash:Phoenix; since the game was rewriting all the text every frame, the gray looked really crappy. I ended up writing a separate routine for the inventory menu that would only update the screen whenever a button was pressed, but it cost me a lot of space x.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 03, 2011, 02:06:52 am
I think he means that the slowdown would occur just in general while looking at/using a menu. I had this issue as well with the bag in Ash:Phoenix; since the game was rewriting all the text every frame, the gray looked really crappy. I ended up writing a separate routine for the inventory menu that would only update the screen whenever a button was pressed, but it cost me a lot of space x.x
Ah, that's not really much of an issue with E:SoR, since it manages its version of a textshadow buffer rather efficiently. It runs as a 4x4 tilemapper so the text is rather ... aligned... but what I get out of it is the ability to not write to areas to the screen that are not defined in this "textmapper". This is a real asset when updating cursor positions, since the only thing on the textshadow are the characters that form the cursor.

Still, when looking at the inventory, the textmapper *does* have to do a lot of work since it is updating more of the screen than it is usually used to. The real slowdown I'm worried about is what is happening with the printf macro when it is rebuilding the "textshadow" buffer during one of its frames.

To a normal player, this degradation of grayscale quality *might* be tolerable, since it only happens when something onscreen is changing. I'm a little worried about that one frame. Ought I be? Or am I just setting my expectations too high? I mean, I want to make this incarnation "cleaner" and from the scheme I'm coming up with, it has the potential of just being visually messier.

The only reason I'm adopting the scheme is because it makes managing data across pages almost infinitely easier. I'm sure it's a worthy goal to pursue if it means getting the game out earlier, but still. To sacrifice something for a quicker release is also rather upsetting in my eyes. On a slightly better note, I managed to make some core routines faster, so maybe I'm just imagining things.

If anyone wants to try to improve on this textmapper, give it a go. All registers are free for use, including shadow registers. I'm currently using the stack pointer to extract two 4x4 pairs at a time. Space is not (much of) an issue, though don't try unrolling loops. http://iambianet.pastebin.com/XCWgLzUK

Maybe "tomorrow," I'll lay down new groundwork for the next menu system. I've spent too much time reading fanfiction...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 04, 2011, 02:41:01 pm
Hmm I see, well good luck x.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 06, 2011, 07:44:01 pm
Wellsirs. The menu system is up and running after a few failed attempts. I'm liking how it's both leaner and simpler to work with, so I'm guessing that it won't be much longer before I can reconstruct the stuff. On that note, I've gotta check up on Kerm's SourceCoder thing to see if it'll spit out the data I need to get the graphics going. Once that's done, I'll be going full speed ahead in making the thing looking like it was a while back.

Also, I'm going to start a new thread soon to indicate that this project has been rebooted. To top it off will be the original screenies that Zera pulled off the site when there was that heated dispute some time ago.

EDIT: I haven't tested out *all* the new menu system's features quite yet. These new features lets me create more dynamic menus should I need to.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on January 06, 2011, 07:46:38 pm
Sweet :D
How exactly does your data structure for your menu's look?
Can't wait for the new thread actually :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 06, 2011, 08:51:23 pm
Sweet :D
How exactly does your data structure for your menu's look?
Can't wait for the new thread actually :)
This post is to satiate your curiosity. The following is pulled straight from the project:
Code: [Select]
;=============================================================================
;Note: During initialization stage, any data that is set to -1 will cause that
;      value to be, instead, loaded from the indicated register
;
;Menu system data and routines formatting:
;Initializer formatting     | Internal memory structure
;Ofs Reg Description        |Ofs Description
;+00  A  Menu slot (0-7)    |+00 Cursor X
;+01  C  Starting cursor X  |+01 Cursor Y
;+02  B  Starting cursor Y  |+02 dX
;+03  E  dX                 |+03 dY
;+04  D  dY                 |+04 X boundary
;+05  L  X boundary         |+05 Y boundary
;+06  H  Y boundary         |+06 Current X position
;+07 IXl LSB Routine Table  |+07 Current Y position
;+08 IXh MSB Routine Table  |+08 LSB Routine Table
;                           |+09 MSB Routine Table
;
;Routine Table (structure semi-variable)
;
;+0    Maskouts %Dl Md 2n y= Up Rg Lf Dn  : Count # of bits =n. n=#of words
;+1*2n Addresses from Dl to Dn in that order (left shift)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 07, 2011, 08:40:04 am
Great to see (re)progress as always! :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 07, 2011, 07:13:30 pm
Wellsirs. The menu system is up and running after a few failed attempts. I'm liking how it's both leaner and simpler to work with, so I'm guessing that it won't be much longer before I can reconstruct the stuff. On that note, I've gotta check up on Kerm's SourceCoder thing to see if it'll spit out the data I need to get the graphics going. Once that's done, I'll be going full speed ahead in making the thing looking like it was a while back.

Also, I'm going to start a new thread soon to indicate that this project has been rebooted. To top it off will be the original screenies that Zera pulled off the site when there was that heated dispute some time ago.

EDIT: I haven't tested out *all* the new menu system's features quite yet. These new features lets me create more dynamic menus should I need to.
Cool to hear, I can't wait for new screenshots ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 09, 2011, 12:39:10 am
I've almost got the title screen back to the way it was. It's a breeze coding in the new things once all the little details are filled in. I'm happy with my cross-page call and jump routines. The next challenge will be to use the grayscale layer effects instead of contrast effects to give the look that should've been captured on the emu's screenshots to begin with (they weren't). Since I'm not messing with contrast anymore, it should ease a few worries that other projects had with respect to changing contrast and rendering the game illegible, or worse, unplayable.

Gotta work the menu system a wee bit more. Forgot to add special support for the 2nd button.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Hot_Dog on January 09, 2011, 12:43:16 am

Gotta work the menu system a wee bit more. Forgot to add special support for the 2nd button.

Yeah, the 2nd button would be a good idea :angel:
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Binder News on January 09, 2011, 12:59:24 am
since this is 34 pages long, can I get a quick summary of what the heck this is. (yes I did look at the first post. and the second, third, and fourth pages) It looks AWESOME!!! I just want to know what it is.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 09, 2011, 11:16:27 am
Here you go:
Quote from: Zera
A grayscale RPG for 15 MHz calculators, currently being coded by Iambian. Total progress is around ~40% completion. (currently working on the battle engine)

This thread will serve as the official project discussion. Progress updates will be posted here.

Quote
Eons ago, before the time of man, a powerful entity known as Yaldabaoth brought forth into existence a pantheon of gods. Each of these gods was conscripted into his service, and each was given the responsibility of governing the various elements of the mortal sphere. Using their powers of creation, the pantheon gave birth the world of Escheron, and the mortal men who would walk its surface.

Mankind flourished on Escheron, and there he built many lustrous kingdoms. With the passing of time, mankind began to approach a level of unparalleled technological progress. The pantheon's governance was no longer necessary to protect and maintain the mortal sphere, and so Yaldabaoth recalled their powers. Many gods did not wish to surrender their powers so willingly, leading to a great conflict within the pantheon. All but few gods were destroyed at their own devices, and the essence of their powers was left lingering in the wake of their conflict. Many of man’s kingdoms fought to claim this power for themselves. Some succeeded, and Escheron saw an age of conquest that set a precedent for centuries of suffering and warfare. The Arcanians—the self-appointed guardians of these powers—finally came into their possession, and sealed themselves away in the ruins of the realm of the gods for all eternity. The conflict had finally come to a rest. Time passed, and such accounts were held only to be legends of a past mythology...

Centuries later, the kingdom of Asnoth, and the neighboring kingdom of Ragnoth to the South, have come into a proclamation of war. Lord Leonis of Asnoth has become paranoid of the secrets held by the descendants of the Arcanian people of Ragnoth. Fearing they might one day break the seal on the realm of the gods and unleash the gods’ power once more, he has petitioned a figure known only as the Shadow Lord to seek-out the secrets of the Arcanians and eradicate their kind.

Enter Maya Anson: A young girl, and the last descendant of the Arcanians. 10 years ago, her home village was taken under the military occupation of Asnoth’s Royal Guard, and her family slaughtered by the forces of the Shadow Lord. She has hence been orphaned into civil resistance, and is now leading a campaign to liberate her village from the occupation, once and for all.

(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/6958/wabbitemu.gif) (http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5444/wabbitemu3.gif) (http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/9785/wabbitemu4.gif) (http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/6958/wabbitemu.gif) (http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/6545/wabbitem2u.gif) (http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1318/wabbitemu1.gif) (http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/5444/wabbitemu3.gif) (http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8573/wabbitemu5.gif) (http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/6958/wabbitemu.gif)

Quote
Maya Anson 
Age 17
A young girl from the Province of Ragnoth. Maya was orphaned into civil resistance after her home village was invaded by the forces of Asnoth, and her family put to slaughter. Since then, she has known only violence as her village has struggled to overcome the oppression of Asnoth’s constant military occupation.

Edmund Giovane 
Age 32
Ex-Captain of the Knights Asnoth, and liaison to the prince. Edmund was relegated and exiled from the territories of Asnoth amid a royal scandal. He has vowed to return for the prince’s sake, and serves Ragnoth’s resistance faction to this end.

Prince Gielgud 
Age 15
The youngest of the royal family, and former heir to the throne of Asnoth. Prince Gielgud is being held prisoner pending an investigation of a scandalous affair involving the Captain of the Knights Asnoth.

Princess Rose 
Aged 21 (presumed deceased)
Princess Rose was the eldest sibling of the royal family. During Asnoth’s campaign against the Arcanians, the princess led many unsuccessful protests in opposition to her father’s obsession with war. 2 years ago, Princess Rose vanished, and her pendant—a family heirloom—was found discarded near a river. Many believe she was driven to suicide in a desperate outcry against the war; some believe she is still alive, and chose to estrange herself from the royal family.

Glenn Oswald 
Age 25
Childhood friend of Maya, who fled the Province of Ragnoth during Asnoth's occupation.  Although a superior fighter, Glenn often questions the strength of his own character, believing he can never make restitution for abandoning his people.

Lord Leonis 
Age 56
A powerful monarch who rules the Kingdom of Asnoth. Lord Leonis was once considered a just and compassionate ruler, but many have begun to question his leadership in lieu of a proclaimation of war against Ragnoth and the Arcanians.

The Dark Knight 
Age Unknown
A mysterious figure clad in dark armor. The Dark Knight appears to be a sellsword, or possibly an opportunist. Although his alignment—or his interests in Asnoth's affairs—remains unclear, some suspect he may have a more personal involvement in the war.

The Shadow Lord 
Age Unknown
An eerie and malevolent figure serving as Leonis' right-hand man. The Shadow Lord led Asnoth into the war with the Arcanians, and was personally responsible for much of the slaughter that took place. Some suspect he may be manipulating Lord Leonis to fulfill his own agenda.

(http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3001/mapofescheron.th.png) (http://img508.imageshack.us/i/mapofescheron.png/)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Binder News on January 09, 2011, 01:56:28 pm
Ok, thanks. VERY awesome.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 10, 2011, 07:37:11 pm
Indeed. I really hope this gets finished ;D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 11, 2011, 02:15:33 am
Got the title screen up and running again. The task ahead of me is putting together the tilemapper again, and then restructuring all the data that goes along with it and goes alongside it. Almost overwhelming, this task is.

Also, I'm using "cleaner" effects to hide some of the grayscale imperfections during long loading. Improvements need to be made for the real calc, but I'll get to doing that later.

EDIT: So in this screenshot, for the first time ever, you get to see what was originally planned for the title sequence. The flashing effect, that is. Might want to improve it.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 11, 2011, 04:03:49 am
Nice to see progress :D. I also like the lightning effects on the title screen before the menu appears. :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on January 11, 2011, 10:28:02 am
Very, very impressive!
Keep up the amazing work Iambian!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: ztrumpet on January 11, 2011, 05:15:41 pm
Looks wonderful!  Excellently done. :D
Oh, by the way, "until" only has one 'l'. :) (I :love: Firefox's spell check. ;D )
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 12, 2011, 11:53:36 pm
Maybe it's the spelling for ancient english?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 13, 2011, 08:34:35 pm
I suppose I'll keep using the old topic for updates that aren't related to the overall progress of E:SoR...

I was playing around with some of the screen effects. This one is what happens when I hold the screen inverse for two cycles instead of one (lightning effect):
(http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4710/esor64.gif)
I was also playing around with an almost constant monochrome filter. The results of that experiment is here:
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6699/esor662.gif)
All of these images are best viewed in Firefox or Opera, since they're high-framerate .gif files.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on January 13, 2011, 09:31:58 pm
I like the first one the most, but the other one is pretty cool, you can see it flash between greyscale and monochrome if you watch closely :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 16, 2011, 03:20:55 pm
Nice. ALso the monochrome filter might actually be cool for people who seem to hate grayscale games for some reasons or have a terrible LCD driver that causes any grayscale to look horrible no matter what.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 29, 2011, 01:37:06 am
Heheh. I'll be bouncing around between this topic and the new topic, I suppose.

With that, I'm announcing that the progress is ... well. Slow? I hadn't realized how complicated I made the inventory menu, but I'm sticking with that complexity because it was "good." I'm also making sure it makes more sense. So no being able to scroll through tons of empty space, not knowing exactly where you are. That omission in design is being fixed. Once I get the thing up and going the way I want to, I'll also consider adding in additional graphical niceness. What I'm thinking is moving the menu items in half-character increments to show a better "scroll".
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 29, 2011, 02:45:36 am
Well I guess this topic can be good too because it has a large amount of views so it shows in the board stats :P (top 10 views). Sorry to hear about the menu. I hope you don't have too many rewrites to do in the future. X.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Ti-DkS on January 29, 2011, 08:21:15 am
Very impressive work  :o !! You done a great job :D, this game is beautiful !
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: kalan_vod on January 29, 2011, 12:26:14 pm
Maybe you can have an option to play in GS or BW...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 30, 2011, 11:55:25 pm
Yeah it could be good for those who absolutely despise grayscale (although I don't get why ppl hate GS so much if it looks great on every calc)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: kalan_vod on January 31, 2011, 04:03:56 pm
If it came down to being faster (like on a 83+, I would like it to be BW but on my 83+SE GS would be fine)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 31, 2011, 04:05:25 pm
Choosing to play the game in B/W will take a fair bit more work than what I've already shown. Going that route would require me to write a separate tile mapper for that option, but it shouldn't be too hard, since doing B/W will be much simpler and I wouldn't have to worry about grayscale quality at that point. It won't be purely B/W, since some of the layering effects would call for grayscale layering effects, which will be evident when they happen (also see the flashing effect in the "B/W" screenshot far above).

I just don't think the game would be very enjoyable in B/W, but I do respect that sort of option, now that I've got a proof of concept showing that it's indeed possible to do just that.

EDIT: When I get the 4LVGS Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth done, I might just work on a B/W version that is compatible with the good ol' fashioned TI-83+ calculators. It shouldn't be *too* hard since all that would really call for is a reworking of the graphical assets. Since I have the source, all it would be is time consuming.

EDIT2: Urk. Now I realized something. I'd have to rework much of RAM to make it *really* compatible. Gotta have all your RAM free for this to work. That shouldn't be too hard if that's the case. Just collapse the rest of RAM into the $8000-$BFFF area and keep treating that stick of RAM that I have free'd up as the "extra page". See? I'm already thinking about how this is going to be made possible :)

EDIT3: And now... back to the inventory system. While I'm thinking about that, doing menus using a simple B/W overlay wouldn't take too much away from that.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: kalan_vod on January 31, 2011, 04:17:07 pm
Inside the mind of a serial killer...I mean genius :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 01, 2011, 12:20:48 am
A 83+ version might be cool. Hopefully graphic conversion isn't too hard. For now I think the focus should be on the GS version, though. Good luck whatever you decide. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2011, 10:32:30 pm
Just throwing this in here. It's implementing a smoother scroll to the inventory menu. I say "smoother" because it's not by pixel. Rather, it's by 4 pixels, which is better than the previous 8. Thought I'd share.

Warning to IE and Chrome users: Shot in a high framerate. It'll look faster in Firefox or Opera. Or just drag and drop to your desktop and use something like Irfanview to view the image with its speed.
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8030/esortest.gif)

A reassuring tidbit of information: Unless you can slam that arrow key faster than 16 times a second, there's no speed drop between the 8px scroll and the 4px scroll. This is because of the key repeat delay to keep things from happening too fast. It's always been there.

EDIT: Got a working version with arrows. Notice their presence or lack thereof depending on what's in the menu.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on February 02, 2011, 11:40:17 pm
Looking good!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: kalan_vod on February 02, 2011, 11:54:59 pm
Very beautiful work!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 04, 2011, 12:17:16 am
Very awesome Iambian!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 21, 2011, 08:08:22 pm
I'm not trying hard enough. Gotta get some stuff out of the way before I can continue. The most pressing matter is recreating stat calculations and the like.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: squidgetx on February 22, 2011, 03:26:55 pm
Woo, stat calculations! Fun stuff. I advise modifying the ones from Pokemon if you're stuck on ideas, they work pretty well. Also, that menu scrolling looks really nice :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 23, 2011, 09:07:17 pm
I like doing stat stuff, but in BASIC. I can't imagine how hard it must be when you also have to worry about overflowing past 65535...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 24, 2011, 08:38:48 pm
The stats that needs to be calculated are already well-defined in the design documentation of the project, provided by Zera. Everything is defined to excruciating detail, so nothing is missed. Much of the calculations can and will fit inside 8 bits, but for that off chance, things extend to 16 bits during calculation.

As far as the 255 and 65535 thing goes, we ASM programmers have very novel ways in making sure they don't go past that without any of us knowing. This isn't to say these things cannot happen. They sometimes do and they cause much strife and grief in debugging them. When damage isn't expected to rise higher than 1024 and no stat can exceed 255 (the sole exceptions being enemy HP and current GP), it's hard to imagine anything going past 65535.

So the issue isn't making up statistics and having them flow together. The real issue is implementing the rock-solid plan that came before coding ever started.

EDIT: The design documentation that I speak of is going to be kept secret until I release the source for E:SoR, which hopefully won't happen until after the game is released.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 28, 2011, 12:29:34 am
Yeah it's best in some cases to keep damage low. In my old RPGs attack damages could be something like ATK*Weapon power*LV/Enemy defense, but I wouldn't be able to do that in Axe as easily. I would need to find better formulas if I wanted damage to still be capped at 9999. I would pretty much have to use substractions/additions instead of multiplications/divisions.

In Final Fantasy Mystic Quest when you heal the final boss when his HP is low enough, you actually cause him close to 30K damage because of an overflow glitch.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: tloz128 on March 29, 2011, 11:31:38 pm
Bump. Any progress Iambian?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: leafy on March 29, 2011, 11:54:55 pm
Hands down this is one of the best RPG's I've seen yet. I'd be very interested in any progress made :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on April 08, 2011, 11:46:43 pm
I'm going to have to put this project on hold for a while. Gonna spend time rebooting CaDan.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on April 08, 2011, 11:48:43 pm
awr sad to here but its sounds like its needed this is no small project ^_^ and with work being more than normal i can only imagine how much harder wraping your head around every thing must be T.T
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on April 09, 2011, 12:22:12 am
Ah, it's all good. :) Better to not burn out on things by focusing on the TOO much.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 17, 2011, 02:06:41 am
It's ok, just as long as you're not cancelling E:Sor, because so many people have been looking forward for it in the past years. O.O
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 08, 2011, 03:53:57 pm
Just to let you know, I'm going to hash out some sort of schedule so I can work on both CaDan and E:SoR simultaneously. I'll let ya guys know how well that's working out by the end of the month.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 08, 2011, 03:55:10 pm
Cool, I wish you good luck. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Aichi on June 08, 2011, 03:56:15 pm
I'm looking forward to new progress. :)
I hope Escheron gets finished someday; it looks impressing. I'd love to play it.^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 08, 2011, 04:17:35 pm
Sounds awesome Iambian. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 09, 2012, 11:01:23 am
Well, I know for a fact that I will not be working on this project until at least January 22nd (Cemetech contest deadline)

The good news is that the code is still delicious! *nom*
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 09, 2012, 11:14:54 am
This is *officially* a no code nomming zone. Please spit out all code and re-deposit it in the source. Thankyou. :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on January 28, 2012, 08:03:13 pm
Iambian, i'm not sure if you've mentioned this anywhere else, but... are you looking to code this alone? (Aka, do you want help with anything? ;))
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 28, 2012, 11:35:47 pm
If I remember he was coding it alone while Zera did the entire story/graphics/etc, but now he's busy with other projects and Cadan. He just finished working on Cemetech contest stuff I think.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on January 29, 2012, 06:56:05 am
Yeah, i assume the contest ended the 22nd so hopefully that isn't an issue anymore. I remember that a couple years ago it was a team project, (was the first Lost Legends ever completed?) and has passed through the hands of quite a few people. I started a little RPG project (mostly just to get my feet wet again in asm) almost a year ago and'd like to get some more experience in RPG programming:
(http://www.mirari.fr/dbTx) (http://www.mirari.fr/2PFu)
Anyway, if you decide you'd like to pick the project up again and wouldn't mind a little company, let me know :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 29, 2012, 07:19:03 am
Lost Legends eventually got scrapped entirely. Escheron is essentially LL 2.0. :) It takes elements from the original, but is more expansive.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 29, 2012, 01:24:11 pm
Actually E:SoR is some sort of upgraded version of Lost Legends 2. If I remember, Zera redesigned LL1 too a while ago, but I forgot where are the map pics.

Also that looks nice Chickendude :D but

(http://www.mirari.fr/2PFu)

Poor girl O.O
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 29, 2012, 01:52:34 pm
I could actually use a little help with E:SoR. I haven't thought anyone would've wanted to help out with this project. If you wanna talk about the project, chat with us on IRC, and we'll see what can be done, perhaps exchange a bit of source code.

Just highlight me on IRC (say my name) and wait for a response, since I may be afk at the time.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 29, 2012, 02:00:28 pm
I don't think he uses IRC, though, so you should probably also cross post in the ASM help section if you need coding help, in case it gets noticed faster there. If it's project related, maybe here and on IRC.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 29, 2012, 02:19:48 pm
The problem with that, though is that everything in E:SoR is needlessly complicated and I'm unsure if I'm able to explain everything with the exacting clarity needed to be able to handle everything. I may give it a shot, though.

I suppose the hardest part of working with E:SoR is introducing a new (to the project) coder about the ... stuff... that the project is already made of and in how to work with that. I'm none too keen on rebooting the project *again*, but if it comes to that, it might as well happen.

Also, I'm not too sure how to really delegate the workload. I mean, its main components are all pretty mashed together, and that which can be separated are major things in and of themselves. At the moment, these things are pieces that are identifiable:
(1) Map renderer
(2) Menu system
(3) Object interaction
(4) NPC interaction
(5) Event handler and coordinator
(6) Battle system

As far as this iteration of the project is concerned, most of item (1) is done, bits and pieces of (2) is done, very little of (3) is done, and (6) remains an outline as it relates somewhat to item (1) (stats generation).

If I can verify that chickendude really wants to work on the project, I'll send him a copy of the source thus far, and we can both rediscover what the next task is. Until then...

>.>
<.<
>.>
*nom*
^.^

EDIT: (1) Try to do the IRC thing, please? (2) Delicious cherry flavoured ... uh. Can't say... I know I'll get hit with a newspaper if I do ... >.<
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 29, 2012, 02:27:41 pm
Yeah I hope you don't have to reboot it again. It sucks to rewrite everything because eventually you lose motivation (like many people in the past.) Restarting a project over and over is like a TI-BASIC endless loop involving running prgmA directly from itself's first line of code. It slowly slows down to eventually crash. D:
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on January 29, 2012, 06:08:16 pm
I probably won't be able to get on IRC for a couple weeks, but i definitely am interested in talking about the project (now or in a couple weeks over IRC if that works better for you). I'm interested in seeing how everything's organized, and really it shouldn't take more than a few days to get used to the code. I think it'd be nice to get object interaction and at least a very simple battle system set up, as that immediately makes the game much more playable (and can probably bring more people in to discuss it). Was information on how the battles were supposed to work (and damage/level-up formulas) provided as well?

(Also, i'd prefer if you didn't use the pronoun "he" to talk about me)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 29, 2012, 10:37:03 pm
Okay. Here's the top level bit of the whole project.

Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth is a FlashAPP that spans (thus far) five pages (16K each). So far, the following are on each page (starting from page zero)

[page 0] (7KB free) Game startup and shutdown, menu system, font renderer, stats calculator, keyboard reading routine, decompressor.
[page 1] (10KB free) Interrupt routine, events, LCD routines, main loop, tilemapper, sprite rendering routine (incomplete)
[page 2] (2KB free) Tile bitmaps and image data. Whoops, forgot the enemy bitmaps >.<
[page 3] (8KB free) In-game descriptions, text data for menus, equipment stats. And more strings.
[page 4] (7KB free) Data used to place warp info. Tilemap data.

Almost all the game data is compressed, so it will use a spare RAM page (3) that is present on the TI-83+SE/TI-84+(SE) calculators to hold some of that data temporarily. The challenge is to make sure that the data is where it should be when it is needed.

During tilemap runs, the tile bit map is a full 8KB and rests at around the $C000 range. The $E000 and higher range is left open for other uses, but they include things such as sprite data and string data.
I'm not entirely sure what happens during menu runs, where description data (which is also compressed) needs to be loaded, but I do remember that data is juggled around practically everywhere.
During the battle system, the whole tile bitmap data can be discarded in favor of other things, such as decompressing and moving around enemy bitmaps. And perhaps double-buffering the screen if you wanted additional effects.

I probably should've said something about this before, but beyond the game startup and shutdown, there are no romcalls. The TI-OS would crash if you tried to do it due to the way memory is rearranged. In shortl, I shuffled stuff around to give me $8000 to $8EFF, all consecutive "free" RAM. There aren't too many free RAM areas that are left for use. Those that still exist will be defined somewhere. Not sure where, tho.

---
I would want you to work on the battle system, but there just isn't enough information available for that to happen. So in the meantime, you should get familiar with some of the documents that this project revolves around, in addition to how I originally thought the battle system should flow based on what was described.

I suppose I need time to figure out how to explain everything. Here's a little bit of info attached to this post with regards to what I could find. I'm not going to post the entire source quite yet. (gotta make sure the source will actually build)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on January 30, 2012, 12:11:21 am
(Also, i'd prefer if you didn't use the pronoun "he" to talk about me)
What would you prefer?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 30, 2012, 12:55:26 am
The only other alternative to he would be to repeat his nickname over and over. Had he ever released his RPG, an Omnimaga news about it would then look like this:

Quote
Chickendude releases stunning graphical RPG for the TI-83 Plus

A few days ago, Chickendude has finished his RPG project, after years of work and hiatuses, and then Chickendude uploaded it on Ticalc.org, who approved it just now. Featuring great artwork by Chickendude, the RPG features hours of gameplay, great story and more! Here is a screenshot about Chickendude game:

<insert pic here>

You can download Chickendude RPG here(link).

I'm sure other people, at least the ones who did not work on Zero Wing's english translation in 1989, will love to read our posts if they look that way.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on January 30, 2012, 02:59:03 am
(Also, i'd prefer if you didn't use the pronoun "he" to talk about me)
What would you prefer?
Generally  "they" as a singular pronoun or a non-gender pronoun, typically "ze". :)

@Iambian: Yeah, it seems like the best way to understand it all (especially how things are stored in memory, which seems to be one of the more complicated issues) would be looking at the source along with your explanations. Also, thanks for that file, is it the same as the information available on the google code site? Anyway, i'll look through it, thanks. Take your time, there's no rush. And i don't want to take the control of the program (especially the creative control) away from you, i just want to help you finish it the way you envision it, so we'll se what we can do :)

@DJ:
Quote
Chickendude releases stunning graphical RPG for the TI-83 Plus

A few days ago, they finished their RPG project, after years of work and hiatuses, and uploaded it on Ticalc.org, who approved it just now. Featuring great artwork by Chickendude, the RPG features hours of gameplay, great story and more! Here is a screenshot of the game:

<insert pic here>

You can download the RPG here(link).
;) I hope you'll be able to post that one day!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on January 30, 2012, 03:34:45 am
[...]
@Iambian: Yeah, it seems like the best way to understand it all (especially how things are stored in memory, which seems to be one of the more complicated issues) would be looking at the source along with your explanations. Also, thanks for that file, is it the same as the information available on the google code site? Anyway, i'll look through it, thanks. Take your time, there's no rush. And i don't want to take the control of the program (especially the creative control) away from you, i just want to help you finish it the way you envision it, so we'll se what we can do :)
[...]

I'm not entirely sure what information is on the Google Code site, since the vast majority of the work was accomplished between me and Zera via IRC. There were some pretty big revisions, so I'm guessing the information is nothing alike.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on January 30, 2012, 02:45:51 pm
There is a google code for this 0.o

hey iambian maybe we should make one for cadan...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 30, 2012, 02:50:35 pm
Good idea, providing you continue keeping us updated here afterward too :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on January 30, 2012, 03:46:28 pm
Good idea, providing you continue keeping us updated here afterward too :)

wouldent dream of not updating here :P would just be easier to merge our chagnes as atm we are doing this really wonky deal with a ftp server lol
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on January 31, 2012, 11:39:24 am
I started reading through the documents you sent, i like a lot of ideas (like merits and proficiency). I had a few questions but they ended up getting answered by the time i reached the end of the design doc (99 max stats just seems really low to me). Looks like there's a lot of work ahead!

I'm moving at the end of this week, so it might be a little while before i get settled/have internet access. Maybe we can figure a way to get started or decide what needs to be worked on in the meantime.

PS: I read "If %ISHIT" incorrectly the first time through :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 01, 2012, 11:42:12 pm
I would like you to start working on the battle engine, despite the fact that there's nothing in the current code that even remotely alludes to it working. Most specifically, I would like you to work on the part that performs the battle calculations.

Since not everything is put together, just assume that you will have available calls to routines in the form of "call GetStat<insert_stat_type>" in which you replace the stat type with something such as "STR", "WIS", "Evade", "NumberOfPhysicalAttacks", "DEF", "HitRate", etc. I'll be adjusting the names of the routines that fetches the values to whatever you choose to name that call.

Please ignore the file "battengm.txt" since that is an incomplete document. In batteng.txt, please revise line 23 to read:
Code: [Select]
09.      If have BLIND FIGHTING, %HITRATE = %HITRATE - ( %HITRATE / 4 )
For messing around with the battle system, please refer to this copy of Escheron (http://cadan.57o9.org/LL2-2010-08-16.rar), complete with source, to see something that might remotely look... decent. It's actually a much more complete version of E:SoR but it was getting to be an absolute pain to work on. To build that software, you'll need to put the extracted contents of that archive in a folder called "LL2" (the project was originally "Lost Legends II" before Zera changed its name) and then put that folder inside the project folder of Dwedit's AppDev kit (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/323/32393.html), then you'll want to replace "asmapp5.bat" with the one I've attached to the bottom of this post. Only then do you go into the LL2 folder and double-click the mLLII.bat file to rebuild the app.

Understand that the source that I linked to you here is completely and radically different from the revision that you are working on (maybe except some of the LCD driver routines. I worked too hard on them to ditch). The difference includes some of the data itself and its structures. In this source file, the entire engine is split between pages 1 and 5 (starting from 1 this time around) with data sitting on page 4.

This version was overall much more complete, and with a few more steps, would've been releasable as the finished product. The problem was with the compilation environment and how everything was arranged together. See, TASM has limits and I was trying to pull together hacks that would overcome *some* of those limits (but not all of them), and I ran into a problem with respect to how the code was arranged. I would not have been able to cram events in there. I had a couple of images that were missing from the source that wouldn't have made it in. Overall, the thing was a complete mess and I felt like I needed to stop that shit and restart the whole thing.

If you think you might be able to cram what needs to be done into the old source and have a pretty complete game, feel free (but I think you'd be wasting your time). So that's why I have a pretty much clean slate that allows me to put together things in a much more sane manner, and allow things to be ... "page-aware". SPASM allows me to do this. Also, SPASM just simply builds faster.

tl;dr: Try to write battle engine calculations. You can test it using the old source if need be, or to use as a reference for the new version should you want to code the whole thing.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on February 02, 2012, 06:44:57 am
I don't know if you actually attached the new batch file or not..?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2012, 07:03:20 am
Whoops. Sorry 'bout that. Completely forgot about it after making that post. It ought to be attached to this one.

EDIT: That and you'll want to remove the final three lines of mLLII.bat , since they refer to a setup that is specific to my machine.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on February 02, 2012, 01:49:45 pm
I made the new source you gave me into a WabbitCode project file but ended up having a couple errors trying to compile, and i just wanted to make sure that i've got it right. Basically, in the statcalc file in p0 there were two undefined addresses (lines 107/120), AddAtoHL and statgetbuf+5. I changed them to AddAtoHL0 and statgetbuf1+5.
Also, everything looks really pretty (i love the mountains!) but it feels a little odd with the player being aligned to a grid.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2012, 02:04:11 pm
I made the new source you gave me into a WabbitCode project file but ended up having a couple errors trying to compile, and i just wanted to make sure that i've got it right. Basically, in the statcalc file in p0 there were two undefined addresses (lines 107/120), AddAtoHL and statgetbuf+5. I changed them to AddAtoHL0 and statgetbuf1+5.
You're right, and I'm also kinda embarrassed that I uploaded something without checking to see if it would build at all. Aside from that, I also made another really small revision. You can see that here: http://pastebin.com/FKzmixrX (p0/statcalc.z80)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on February 02, 2012, 02:28:03 pm
Don't worry about it, i'm looking through now to find where i can stick my foot in ;) And when you say IRC, what channel are you talking about, just at the top of the page?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: LincolnB on February 02, 2012, 07:05:49 pm
Yeah, that's usually what's referred to.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 02, 2012, 07:13:39 pm
I'm sometimes on #omnimaga, which is what is shown at the top of the page, but I'm usually just stitting around, either idling or chatting with the CaDan dev "team" in #fishtankcity. If you have to use your own IRC client, know that the network is "irc.efnet.org"
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 04, 2012, 05:30:28 am
Actually, you might want to pause on the battle engine thing for a little bit. I need to revise a couple of things with respect to how the stats are generated and how the flow of battle is supposed to go.

EDIT: Unless you can figure your way around the design documentation well enough to implement it for yourself.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on February 04, 2012, 05:36:34 pm
I started working my way through the first page, but it might be a little while before i can really dive in (as i said, i'm in the process of moving), but i'm excited to start :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 05, 2012, 09:43:10 am
I'm really happy another coder is joining the project. :D \o/ I've loved this project since it first started out as Lost Legends I and eventually became this. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Deep Toaster on February 05, 2012, 02:15:14 pm
I'm glad this project is still alive and well :w00t:
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 05, 2012, 02:31:29 pm
Glad this is progressing again too. :)

Also I wonder if Fishtankcity could be added to OmnomIRC's extra (not available by default) channels, like Eeems did with #irp?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on February 05, 2012, 02:33:46 pm
I'm sure it could but i think we kinda like the semi Privateness that it offers with out omnom in it (semi because there are public logs lol) but thats up to iambian and netham not me im indifferent either way to that :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 06, 2012, 03:50:08 am
I'm okay about getting OmnomIRC in on #fishtankcity. Moar people to discuss stuff especially during the busier times on #omnimaga.

So... I suppose you should talk to His Lobsteriness about it now, since it pretty much is his chan.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 07, 2012, 08:13:47 am
Double-post for very timely bump (for ... other... reasons... ehehe...)

Pulling together statistics generator so that maybe, just maybe, the chickendude might be able to work on the battle engine. Still, gotta test to see if I didn't horribly break anything, since this is all mostly new code.

Spoiler For Don't Look At This, AoC:
>.>
<.<
>.>
*OMNOMNOMNOMNOM*
...
*burp*
...
*nom*...?
Yummy code...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 07, 2012, 08:02:17 pm
/me growls at Iambian and rolls up his newspaper. >:D
It's gonna be nice to see the battle engine up and running (eventually). :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on February 07, 2012, 08:06:44 pm
Lol nice iambian :P and here try this AOC /me hands him a large glued roll of news paper for extra hard WHAPing
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on February 14, 2012, 04:55:48 pm
Awesome, sounds good. Just stopping by to let everyone know i'm still alive ;)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eiyeron on February 14, 2012, 05:12:58 pm
When you're dying I will be still alive!
...
Sorry, reflex...
Anyway, good thing that you're always here, it's a good project!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 03, 2012, 11:43:43 pm
I hope this project is still alive. I haven't seen Iambian in ages and I wonder if he quit calcs or something (since he has done calc programming for almost 10 years) O.O
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Eeems on April 03, 2012, 11:58:33 pm
He's still around on IRC last I checked. Him and geekboy talk a ton.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 04, 2012, 12:00:10 am
Ah ok that's good. I hope he still plans to finish this and CaDan, since I have been looking forward for them for 3 years D:
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on April 04, 2012, 12:06:46 am
actually he hasnt been around for a while as he is still addicted to some video games. he hasnt forgotten us tho i nag him every so often ^^
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on April 04, 2012, 12:09:00 am
Ah ok, I hope he doesn't end up permanently switching to video games like most of DragonFire X.x (I remember for example Telroth vanished completely after he got addicted to WoW and never came back)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on April 04, 2012, 02:42:38 am
/me pops in and reminds Iambian to code once ina while instead of nomming on cherrylicous flavoured source-code. :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 01, 2012, 11:22:51 am
Hey, giving you a well earned BUMP! :P Where you been lately guy? Haven't seen you around here or on IRC lately, maybe I've just missed you. Poke your head in and bug us some mkay? ;)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 01, 2012, 09:23:18 pm
I saw him on SAX recently but that was the only time. He's stuck into playing some game I forgot the name of. X.x
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: turiqwalrus on May 02, 2012, 08:52:05 am
I saw him on SAX recently but that was the only time. He's stuck into playing some game I forgot the name of. X.x
Realm of the Mad God...
I take the blame for introducing him to it :/
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 02, 2012, 09:48:45 am
/me stabs turiqwalrus with a rusty spork.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on May 02, 2012, 03:17:44 pm
lol ill go nag him later he needs to come back we miss him xD
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on May 06, 2012, 01:44:32 pm
I'm still around, too, but got distracted by another little project and moving to the other half of the globe ;) I've been afraid to stop by for fear of getting tossed out :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 06, 2012, 02:30:48 pm
Lol don't worry you are always welcome here ;D, also where are you moving?

Btw nice to see you again :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 07, 2012, 09:34:03 am
/me throws chickendude out.
:P Only teasing. I knew you had moved, but I wondered where you had been. It has been a while. I trust the move went smoothly for you? =)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on May 07, 2012, 11:34:39 am
Ah.. still getting used to being here and work has had me much busier than i thought, i haven't had much time at all for any of my projects here. I actually moved to China so learning Chinese has been my biggest priority since arriving, though haven't had much time for that either :P I've got the source sitting on my laptop here and have started looking through it trying to find my feet, but haven't started writing any new code yet.

Hopefully people will excuse me for spending more time on my ("our") other little project for the time being :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 07, 2012, 11:39:52 am
China! X.X Holy cow! That's one heck of a move! I think China would be an awesome place to visit. :D From what I hear the Chinese language is fairly difficult. I assume you are learning Mandarin? Wow... So did you move because of a job opportunity? Sorry for the semi-random train of thought there and all the questions. =)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on May 07, 2012, 11:46:20 am
Yep, job opportunity, nothing terribly exciting though :) And yeah, Chinese has been a bit difficult, mostly the vocabulary, but i think debugging some of my programs is often more difficult! I'll probably speak Chinese perfectly by the time i finish all my projects :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 07, 2012, 01:02:12 pm
Oh wow China. I hope you have some fun there too because I heard it was definitively fun to visit at some places. Hopefully you don't have too much troubles visiting your favorite calc sites behind the Great Firewall :P (although I doubt China web filters are as bad as what most students here have at school or what their parents install on their computers <_<)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on June 30, 2012, 11:32:11 pm
Much work remains to be done before I can announce my total failure to make any progress.

Also, the cherry bowl is empty.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on July 01, 2012, 01:02:01 am
Hey Iambian nice to see you again. I hope you continue working on this in the future, because it looked really great. D:

Also, the cherry bowl is empty.

Is that why you were absent? O.O I think juju ate them
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on July 01, 2012, 08:37:59 am
/me refills said cherry bowl.
Heya Iambian, good to see ya back 'round these parts again. ;D What have you been up to?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on July 02, 2012, 08:35:52 pm
*omnomnomnom* Refill please!

Well, bad things happened in Realm of the Mad God (lost my fully maxed wizard, geared with the best of the best), so I might just allocate more time to the calc community. No guarantees since that game is worse than WoW and crack addictions.

But first thing I'm gonna do is look over the vast amount of code that's been left unattended. I know I was working on stat calculations, so I should probably get a debug menu up and running that shows these stats and their calculations. While the menu system usage was well documented, the code that's behind it is a rather big mess. You wouldn't want to see it. So making a menu shouldn't be that big of a problem. The problem is going to happen when I try to do custom routines based off of ... well... not sure anymore, but I'm sure I'll figure it out soon enough. Hopefully, my Z80 skills hasn't slid too far backwards from months on end of mindless gaming.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: annoyingcalc on July 02, 2012, 08:44:40 pm
I think juju ate them
Actually it was me, :D Iambian is back good to see ya
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: turiqwalrus on July 03, 2012, 02:07:32 am
No guarantees since that game is worse than WoW and crack addictions.
dat true :P

good to see you back again :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on March 21, 2013, 12:46:37 pm
Doing yet another rebuild of this project. This will most (probably) definitely be the last time I do that. The changes include moving the game to a much more sane interrupt scheme, since it was insane to use a danmaku shooter engine to drive the grayscale to begin with.

As such, I'm retooling most of the other routines and putting together a text-script system that's about as feature-filled as it gets. Taking a page from Earthbound, I'll be putting much of the game in this system, which includes stat calculation and the battle engine. Because let me tell ya. It was hell to try to code stat calculation in assembly. At least this way, I'll be able to get through that part of the game with minimal fuss. Oh, and events! I ought to be able to code events in it too! It better be, cuz I'm not going to do it any other way.

So, in short, sorry you guys had to wait forever, and I'm sorry that you guys have to wait longer. Although I lost my contact with guy who wrote the story for this game, I should still have enough to finish the game.

Next up: Rewriting the tilemapper to be more... sane.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Ki1o on March 21, 2013, 04:13:28 pm
I think bells of joy can be heard throughout the community because this going to be continued.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on March 22, 2013, 02:58:28 pm
This is awesome Iambian! :D I'm really glad you're working on this again. Also, care to expand upon this text scripting system? It sounds interesting. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 23, 2013, 10:31:19 am
I'm glad that you're gonna continue this despite losing contact with the other guy. I also hope that the other guy is OK because from Cemetech posts he seemed to have severe health problems (physically). But yeah hopefully the rewrite makes it easier for you to finish the game. Will the overall game remains the same btw?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on March 23, 2013, 12:13:09 pm
I'm glad that you're gonna continue this despite losing contact with the other guy. I also hope that the other guy is OK because from Cemetech posts he seemed to have severe health problems (physically). But yeah hopefully the rewrite makes it easier for you to finish the game. Will the overall game remains the same btw?
I hope Zera is okay too. The game will remain as faithful to the original ideal as I can possibly make it. Of course, there are gaps and I'm going to have to fill them however I can (missing dialog).

This is awesome Iambian! :D I'm really glad you're working on this again. Also, care to expand upon this text scripting system? It sounds interesting. :)
The text-scripting system is pretty much what it was before plus a programmable component. It gets a couple command sets, 8 registers and a stack (SP is r7), and maybe any other bells or whistles I could throw into it. The point is to be able to code the entire event system and battle system in it. And maybe a few other things.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on March 23, 2013, 12:59:32 pm
Yeah I understand. It reminds me of what happened with Mystique in 2002. The other guy working with me was supposed to write the entire story but then went missing around Chapter 2 so I had to continue the entire game myself after a 1 month hiatus.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on March 24, 2013, 10:11:52 am
Sounds awesome Iambian! :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Deep Toaster on March 24, 2013, 07:15:27 pm
Just glad this project is still alive, though it sounds like a lot of work ahead of you with all that rewriting...
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Escheron on June 05, 2013, 11:13:54 pm
Err, I'm not dead. (sorry, I don't remember my original login details) I just haven't been active in these communities in a while. As far as I know, Iambian still has my email address. I used to correspond regularly with him via IRC, but I haven't used it in a while.

Iambian is welcome to pick up where I left off on the project, but of course, he's just as welcome to get in touch with me if he needs my input. :) I dropped him a line recently, just in case he may have forgotten my email.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on June 05, 2013, 11:14:52 pm
escheron are you zera? if yes can you jump on efnet irc #omnimaga. i would like to have a short word with you. :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 05, 2013, 11:15:56 pm
Hi,

actually from what I recall, he tried to e-mail you once, but there were no answer. That was around a year ago I think, if not more, then he kinda went inactive himself as well, busy playing a game I forgot the name of. Not sure what is the state of the project right now, though. D:
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Escheron on June 05, 2013, 11:20:38 pm
Yes, I'm Zera. I was curious if this sub-board would still be around after all these years, so I thought I would check in. I lost touch with Iambian when he started playing Realm of the Mad God(s).

I haven't been working on any of these projects lately, but mostly due to a lack of correspondence. I figured Iambian might be burned out by now. He wanted to recode a lot of things due to some technical oversights, and it was proving to be a lot of extra work.

If he's still interested in the project, then I can assist him in whatever way he might need. He just needs to contact me more directly, because I don't really visit these communities often.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on June 05, 2013, 11:22:32 pm
like i said zera can you hop on IRC i will be able to point to you how to get a hold of him easier. I have been his coding partner in the insanity that is cadan and everything. and no he still is working on this on his off time cadan has the foreground as of the moment tho.

I sent you an email Zera please have a look at it. i lied i pmed it to you on the forum. your email doenst work 0.o
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on June 06, 2013, 12:03:41 am
Hi, again. I got your PM and am back on my old account.

I'm not sure how to use IRC. It's been quite a long time since I've used it for anything. In fact, I think I deleted the old client I had installed. Could Iambian possibly PM me here and let me know his current email? I've possibly been trying to contact him through an account he isn't using anymore.

--------

I guess I should formally post some kind of update. Since Iambian was having a lot of difficulty implementing the grayscale, I went off to the side and worked on a few ideas for a strictly black-and-white version of Escheron, in case it might be easier to implement. (on account of having to rewrite everything anyway) It's not a definite thing - at least, not unless Iambian wants to go that route.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on June 06, 2013, 12:07:04 am
i can point you to omnomirc. its the chatbox at the top of the screen. as for reaching iambian the best way as of the moment is irc and his phone. some circumstances beyond his control are keeping him away from his pc as of the moment. (he irc's via a droid phone he has) i would grab mirc or hexchat. he isnt around tonight but he should be tommorow.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 06, 2013, 07:39:05 am
As soon as I saw the name "escheron" pop up under new members I thought it might be you Zera. How have you been? Like geek said, this thing's been going on still on and off. Nice to see you around. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: leafy on June 06, 2013, 11:38:21 am
IIRC, greyscale was one of the things that made escheron so amazing in the past; it'd be a shame if you were to truly go down a pure b/w route. Still, it'd be an amazing game without pumped up graphics, and it's great to see it being worked on again :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on June 06, 2013, 11:41:05 am
Wow nice to see you around! The mockup screens look amazing, honestly i like them more than the grayscale! The buildings/door feel a bit off compared to the rest of the sprites (a little too square/simple), but i am impressed. If you ever get bored and wanna make some tiles for me... haha :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 10, 2013, 07:39:34 pm
Hi, again. I got your PM and am back on my old account.

I'm not sure how to use IRC. It's been quite a long time since I've used it for anything. In fact, I think I deleted the old client I had installed. Could Iambian possibly PM me here and let me know his current email? I've possibly been trying to contact him through an account he isn't using anymore.

--------

I guess I should formally post some kind of update. Since Iambian was having a lot of difficulty implementing the grayscale, I went off to the side and worked on a few ideas for a strictly black-and-white version of Escheron, in case it might be easier to implement. (on account of having to rewrite everything anyway) It's not a definite thing - at least, not unless Iambian wants to go that route.
for IRC I actually just use Mibbit nowadays or AndroIRC. I don't have an IRC client installed anymore. Getting connected can be annoying, though, since many EFnet servers only work in specific countries.

As for the duplicate account I guess Geekboy could just delete it then add 2 to your current post count, but I guess that doesn't matter much since you could connect to the old one.

Also the monochrome versions of E:SoR look nice. :D I hope that grayscale can be kept, though, since it seemed like it worked fine at first. Hopefully Iambian can find a solution. On the other hand, monochrome graphics would allow the game to look nice on every single calc and emulators and allow smoother graphics.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: tr1p1ea on June 10, 2013, 08:06:01 pm
I too liked the grayscale but thats just me ... i like grayscale :).

Either way this game has always looked awesome and i hope it comes to fruition soon.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 13, 2014, 06:55:43 pm
I'm still alive, although usually busy.

I haven't had any luck getting in touch with Iambian, but he's always welcome to contact me here. I suppose I could check in every once in a while to see if I have any private messages.

I've been messing around with the idea of a monochrome game some more lately. I came up with something a little more "elegant" in its use of memory, and something that will hopefully respect the calculator's memory restraints a lot better.

I toned down the in-game lists and inventories so that there's 16 items per table - i.e. 16 different enemies that can be encountered, 16 different pieces of equipment scattered throughout the world, 16 different character and enemy skills, etc. That should fit neatly into memory without having to cross-reference multiple pages.

Echeron's original design has too much superfluous content, and much of it feels like an afterthought. For instance, you would often have your choice of 4 or 5 different kinds of equipment upgrades at various points in the story, but the stats and abilities of these items really aren't so different from one another. If Sword A and Sword B are almost identical, why give the player a choice in the first place?

Menus have also been grossly simplified. In fact, it's pretty much a clone of Dragon Warrior's menu layout. No more portraits, no more weird scrolling, etc. The whole menu system in grayscale Escheron is a beast that probably eats up most of the program, and all the little bells and whistles that make it that way aren't so spectacular that they would even make it worth the hassle.

The party system is very different. Battles are one-on-one encounters, and Maya is the only character you control. You can take a single guest character with you, but they don't have character stats / equipment of their own. What they do is tag along and occasionally (determined by pure chance) jump in and attack an enemy, or cast a spell. Enemies can't target guest characters, but if Maya is K.O.'d at any point, it's Game Over.

Guest character attack power is actually determined by Maya's own attack power plus a static bonus. This gives the illusion of guest characters being able to "level up" right alongside Maya. Maya's own stats are increased in a fashion similar to the original system I had planned - she'll gain random stat boosts after battles, as determined by probability checks. There's a default probability for any given stat increasing on its own, but wearing certain types of equipment will increase specific stats more often.

Nothing in the actual story had to be toned down. All the changes are mostly cosmetic and technical. Maya still encounters the same characters, has the same allies throughout the story, and the same major events take place. In fact, my script writing is a little more polished this time around. I shifted everything to Early Modern English grammar (i.e. Dragon Warrior) and started elaborating on each scene in much greater detail.

(Has it really been 120 days since I last posted?)

Anyway, assuming Escheron TI never comes to fruition, there's always RPG Maker. It wouldn't take me very long to put this game together in VX Ace considering the limited number of resources I'd have to port. One way or another, I'll tie this project up and post something for you guys. It's been way too long a wait.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on January 13, 2014, 07:01:58 pm
Hiya zera! Honestly the best way to reach Iambian is a PM on the forums but send me a PM to tell him as I think he logs in rather randomly and I know he stinks with his email from experience lol.  If you can idle on Efnet we have a channel for our insane ramblings so hit me on IRC and I will invite you to it.   The idea seems good buy I don't think Iambian is quite ready to scrap the original escheron he is just to much of a perfectionist :p
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: chickendude on January 13, 2014, 10:55:44 pm
Wow, i love the new stuff. Well, maybe minus the one-on-one battles, but even that could be interesting if different characters (side-kicks?) have different effects, perhaps some occasionally block for you, or do damage, or heal you, etc. I also like the new screens, i've always been more a fan of B&W, so... :D

EDIT: And also please feel free to post more often! :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: annoyingcalc on January 13, 2014, 11:15:46 pm
Zera is back? I thought you quit. I must say, I was really impressed by this, I am very glad there is progress.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 13, 2014, 11:39:54 pm
This looks very nice :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 14, 2014, 07:16:22 am
Hey Zera, good to see you around. As always, your work and attention to detail is beautiful. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 14, 2014, 11:53:36 am
Wow, i love the new stuff. Well, maybe minus the one-on-one battles...

I thought so too. The battle dialog window to the right looks a bit cramped, so I played around with the idea of smaller enemy sprites and a larger window on the bottom.

The only problem is finding decent 32x32 sprite rips to use for the enemies. Some of the larger enemies (and bosses) could consist of 64x32 sprites, since they would appear alone.

I'm not a very good artist, so I can't draw the enemies myself.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Matrefeytontias on January 14, 2014, 12:11:44 pm
You call that not being a good artist ? :w00t: I'm more in a sub-category of stupid self-called artist then ;D

That looks awesome for sure !
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 14, 2014, 02:15:12 pm
You call that not being a good artist ?

Oh, I didn't actually render any of those sprites - they're all rips from early Final Fantasy games.

Maya's sprite was thrown together using little sections of various sprites, as to give the appearance of being custom work. I didn't use any straight up rips for the characters, but I don't have much choice as far as the enemy sprites are concerned.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Matrefeytontias on January 14, 2014, 02:18:41 pm
Oh okay, I thought it was your original work :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Sorunome on January 14, 2014, 02:19:57 pm
woooo, that is looking awesome!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: shmibs on January 14, 2014, 03:05:51 pm
Wow, i love the new stuff. Well, maybe minus the one-on-one battles...

I thought so too. The battle dialog window to the right looks a bit cramped, so I played around with the idea of smaller enemy sprites and a larger window on the bottom.

The only problem is finding decent 32x32 sprite rips to use for the enemies. Some of the larger enemies (and bosses) could consist of 64x32 sprites, since they would appear alone.

I'm not a very good artist, so I can't draw the enemies myself.

hmm, that still looks a bit cramped. maybe you could cut the text box to only two lines tall?

also, hello again! =)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on January 14, 2014, 04:39:19 pm
After a brief talk with iambian he seems to like the concept :P

also to quote my self

If you can idle on Efnet we have a channel for our insane ramblings so hit me on IRC and I will invite you to it. It is really the best way to get a hold of him when he actually joins
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 14, 2014, 04:53:41 pm
That reminds me, although there is no RPG programmer for it yet, there is now a new TI-84 Plus calculator with a color screen and twice more Flash memory (although it has 3 fewer KB of RAM). xLIBC hybrid BASIC games use a 160x120 resolution with double-buffering support, while ASM games can use anything from 160x120 to 320x240, passing by 160x240 as well. xLIB only has two shades of gray among the 254 colors, though.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 14, 2014, 05:03:36 pm
I guess I could use a second opinion on some of the bitmaps I threw together. Attached is a full bestiary consisting of all enemy bitmaps that appear in the game. 64x32 bitmaps are split into two parts, so that puts the total bitmap count at 16. Since there are also 16 enemies in the enemy table, a few entries use the same bitmaps. I tried to keep the selection diverse, at any rate.

From left to right, descending order:

Chimera / Rhyos, Gremlin, Wasp, Vampire Bat, Lost Soul / Shrieker, (!)Labolas, (!)Shadow Lord, Zombie / Revenant, Skulldier, (!)Sea Serpent, Piranha, Bomb / Destroyer

"(name) / (name)" indicates different enemies that use the same bitmap, and
boss enemies are marked with (!). In a few cases, regular enemies such as Chimeras will pop out of treasure chests or appear as mini bosses.

hmm, that still looks a bit cramped. maybe you could cut the text box to only two lines tall?

The game uses verbose text to detail every action taken, similar to Dragon Warrior. Trying to fit all that information into just two lines could be challenging. I think I have about 22 characters per line.

That reminds me, although there is no RPG programmer for it yet, there is now a new TI-84 Plus calculator with a color screen and twice more Flash memory

That's very interesting. I didn't know TI was still supporting older models. I'll have to check it out sometime.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 14, 2014, 05:12:33 pm
I think TI just failed to kill the old z80 line with the locked-down Nspire. People probably still begged for 84+ updates despite TI trying to force everyone to switch over to the Nspire so they decided to throw a bone at us. Of course, the color 84+ is still 15 MHz, so to draw a 320x240 image with 65536 colors it takes 240 times longer than a 96x64 monochrome image. Horizontal scrolling support, like on the NES, lets you create side-scrollers, though, and the 160x240 resolution mode lets you use the entire screen twice faster at the cost of some quality. Vertical scrolling at half-res mode in pure ASM would look like MSX/PC-8801 scrolling.

By the way those sprites look great!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on January 14, 2014, 05:42:56 pm
I think the enemy bitmaps look fine. :)
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on January 14, 2014, 06:53:55 pm
I Think they look good I can also say we can definetily include A lot more then that. Iambian is seemingly infatuated with pucrunch so that honestly wont even take up that much space.

I just took the time to run it through pucrunch this is what it spits out with out file position optimizations(pucrunch is a RLE/Lz twophase compressor and just a change in the order of the sprites can make a difference.)
Code: [Select]
In: 14112, out: 2651, ratio: 18.79%, gained: 81.22%
So as we add more data the saving will continue to show.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 14, 2014, 06:59:44 pm
I expanded the world map to 64x64 tiles. I believe it was previously 32x32. This allows for much more exploration, which is especially important since you gain access to vehicles at different points in the story.

The geography is more or less the same, but Asnoth is now on an isolated continent, whereas it used to be directly north of Ragnoth Province. This makes more sense story-wise. Set before the events of the game, Ragnoth Castle was destroyed by Asnothian military forces using an airborne assault. Since Ragnoth didn't have access to airship technology at the time, they couldn't defend themselves against the invasion. An airborne counterattack would have been the only way for them to retort against Asnoth, since there's a large sea separating the two kingdoms.

There's also a small underworld to explore, still forthcoming. I originally planned to allow an airship to fly underground, but the underworld area is too small. Everything there can be explored on foot instead.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on January 14, 2014, 07:03:47 pm
Well that looks awesome. And its nice to actually see some more content for this game :P as I have no troubled my self to reread the entire 40+ page thread :P  hopefully the towns/castles have nice maps to them to. This could shape up to be a fun rpg!
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 16, 2014, 01:39:02 pm
I had to restructure the overworld due to zoning issues. I have encounters spread across 16 different regions of the map, so some continents had to be brought closer together or moved farther apart. I doubt players want to see overpowered enemies spilling over from Asnoth into the early areas of the game. The game is on the difficult side, but definitely not that cruel.

On that note, I also finished the tileset. I managed to fit everything neatly into a 64-tile binary. There's quite enough to design villages, dungeons, castles - everything. To keep things simple, village maps will be one ubiquitous area (e.g. Dragon Warrior-esque villages) instead of requiring the player to enter buildings and warp to new maps. It's just a lot easier than creating so many back and forth warps for buildings that may contain only a item vendor, or something equally insubstantial. Given the calculator's small screen, it will also probably look a lot better. Some of the structures I used before were frankly too big, and a lot of the detail was always off-screen.

This time around, I'm going to be much more thorough with the dungeon layouts. I think Escheron's original dungeons were too linear, so I'm going to be throwing in several new floors and dead-ends. On the other hand, there's really no pressure to explore every nook and cranny. Treasure chests respawn once you leave an area, and if you ever discard any unique items from your inventory, they re-appear back in their original locations for recollection.

____________


Here's an example map with some of the village tiles I decided to use. This is what will be Ragnoth Outpost. There's a blacksmith, magic guild, inn and tavern. Tucked away in the northeast corner is an underground passage to Ragnoth's resistance base, where Maya receives orders and gets her starting provisions.

If you look closely, you can notice a monolith in the north section of the map. This is how the game records the player's progress. You'll find eight monoliths scattered throughout the world, mostly found in villages and various dungeons. If Maya is KO'd at any point, she'll be resurrected at the last monolith she used. The penalty for being KO'd is half your gold, a random item removed from your inventory and -1..4 to a random ability score.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 17, 2014, 12:53:20 am
This looks pretty good. The village reminds me a lot of Dragon Warrior 4 (I got the actual NES cartridge btw).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 17, 2014, 01:04:07 am
I'm glad it conveys a Dragon Warrior feel. That's exactly what I'm going for. In fact, I'm using some of the DW series' maps as a reference, and trying to design similar structures throughout Escheron's villages.

By the way, Dragon Warrior IV is a pretty expensive cartridge! The only games in the series that I own (in cartridge form) are DW1 and 2 for the original NES, and DW2 alone set me back $30.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 17, 2014, 01:07:57 am
Yeah I know, it was pretty expensive when I saw it. I didn't mind much at the time, though, considering I had more money and liked that game.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Sorunome on January 17, 2014, 08:18:52 am
I like the sprites & the world, it is looking awesome :D
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 17, 2014, 07:40:42 pm
The first dungeon in the game, the cave in Dredmoor Swamp. The black tiles with white speckles are sections of swamp. Each time Maya steps in them, she's poisoned. In order to make it to the cave, Maya will have to trek through the swamp leading to the cave. Poison damage will kill Maya outside of battle, so she won't actually have enough HP to walk through the cave while under the poison's effects.

Note that there are no curative items in the game. What the player will have to do is spend a little time grinding for 400 gold and pay the magic guild in Ragnoth to scribe the "Whispering Wind" spell in Maya's spellbook. This will allow her to neutralize her poison status as soon as she makes her way into the cave.

Any chests marked "Gold" will always contain a random amount of GP between 24..48, and will respawn when Maya leaves the dungeon and returns. This is always the case, even for chests found much later in the game. If you don't mind trudging through poisonous swamps and random battles, this is a good way to grind for gold early on.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 18, 2014, 12:16:18 am
Nice. Try to avoid making dungeons where chests are too close from an easy respawn, tho, in case people abuse them. :P

Some RPGs have some weird tricks that can be abused to get stronger or richer very easily. Eg the Lete River+Ductaped turbo gamepad trick in FFVI or how in Illusiat 11 it only takes 8 hours to get from LV 10 to LV 99 from Chapter 2 (out of 5), probably due to certain monsters giving too much exp.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 18, 2014, 12:56:31 pm
Indeed. I've made a mental note to place gold-bearing chests into the deeper sections of each dungeon so the player can't make a quick trip in, grab some loot, then exit and repeat. Some of the early dungeons are bound to be on the shorter side, but there will usually be obstacles such as random encounters and swamp tiles to make the trip much more tedious. Even so, gold will need to be somewhat plentiful. If you're K.O.'d at any point, you lose half the gold in your possession.

No worries about experience grinding, though. The growth system is similar to FF2j for the Famicom. Instead of gaining experience points, there's something like a 16/256 probability that any of Maya's ability scores will increase by 1 point after a battle. The probability for certain score increases goes up when Maya is equipped with certain items. e.g. Outfitting her with clothing or robes will help her boost her Agility score more quickly, while giving her much heavier armor will boost her HP instead.

To keep the player from getting perpetual increases from weak enemies like Gremlins and Wasps, there's an enemy ranking system in place. Each enemy has a rank from 1 to 8. What this does is determine exactly how many increases Maya can receive from fighting particular enemies. For instance, once all of Maya's ability scores reach a value of 32 or higher, she won't gain any more increases when fighting enemies below rank 3. Gremlins and Wasps are both rank 2. By the end of the game, the only way Maya will be able to gain any additional score increases is by fighting very tough rank 7 and 8 enemies, such as Chimeras.
Title: Re: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 18, 2014, 02:03:35 pm
For such exp system I think that for example, the increase chances should slightly increase the more an attribute/ability is practiced during battle, with a cap. Else if some isn't lucky, he could find himself 100 battles in a row with no increase for a certain attribute and get frustrated.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 21, 2014, 01:13:37 am
Although it will definitely be frustrating, it's necessary to ensure end-game balance. To be fair, I'll explain the ranking system in the game's manual so the player will at least know what to expect.

On that note, I guess I should go ahead and say that Escheron will be an <i>ostensibly</i> difficult game. There will be no hand holding of any kind. It's geared toward only the most seasoned RPG fans, or at least the most masochistic among us who enjoy a good challenge.

Let me highlight a few of the features I've been working on:


 - "Trap rooms." Entering the door places you in the center of the room, as opposed to near the entrance / exit where you should be. Every tile in this room is a forced encounter with challenging enemies. It should be noted that you do have an emergency exit spell at your disposal, but it returns you all the way back to the last monolith you used.
 
 - Looping warps. You'll often find yourself walking down endless hallways, which are actually just warp tiles that seamlessly and repeatedly transport you a few steps back.
 
 - Invisible paths, especially into complete darkness, complete with looping warps.
 
 - Warps to inescapable rooms. Just make sure you have your emergency exit spell before entering a dungeon. If not, there will be swamp tiles so you can kill yourself and be resurrected at the last monolith you used.

 - Invisible warps to trap rooms and inescapable rooms; warps that take you back to the entrance of a dungeon, and look deceptively like the exit you spent 30 minutes trying to reach; trick rooms that look like earlier rooms, giving the impression that you just backtracked or went in a circle.
 
 - Enemies are fond of instant K.O. spells. There are a couple of ways to resist instant K.O. - either by grinding your HP past a certain threshold, or finding a rare item. Both methods will likely occur very late into the game. There's one method for Maya to be resurrected during battle, but it can be put into effect only once per battle.
 
 - The best equipment is outrageously expensive. You'll need to have nearly the maximum allowable gold you can carry before you can purchase anything good. On the other hand, most of these items can be found in dungeons, albeit very well hidden.
 
The save system is a bit complicated, and if not executed carefully, can cause some serious mental stress. I think I'll need a few paragraphs to explain this detail alone.

To save your game, you have to interact with one of the various monoliths found through the world, usually in towns and dungeons. What happens is Maya makes a prayer to the Fates, the three goddesses who govern time and the predestination of all things. The Fates make a record of Maya's exploits up until that point, and should Maya be killed, the Fates will transport Maya's body and spirit to an earlier point in time. In simpler terms, it's just like any typical save game scenario - you pick up where you last saved.

Now, the Fates are very particular about how the player uses this system. The Fates will instruct you to return to them and make an additional save before ending the game and shutting down your calculator. Failure to perform this procedure will screw with the very fabric of time. Suffice it to say, the Fates don't take kindly to this.

What the game does is secretly set a flag in your SRAM file the moment you load a save. This flag remains intact until you use a monolith to save the game and shut down the program from within the game itself. If you do this, then the flag is removed. If you shut down the program without going through this procedure, then the flag remains intact.

The flag lets the Fates know whether or not you followed their instructions and shut down the game within the game, or if you just abruptly turned off your calculator. If you abruptly quit, then prepare for a 10-minute lecture on why you should respect the Fates and take their powers more seriously. If you <i>habitually</i> quit the game without first saving, then the Fates will start to inflict actual punishments on you, such as removing all your items, stranding you in an inescapable room and disabling your escape spell, or wiping your SRAM data entirely.

The purpose of this is to prevent save scumming. If you find yourself in a difficult situation and death seems inevitable, you basically have no choice but to surrender to death and deal with the penalties that follow. If you simply shut down the game and try to reload from your last save file, the game <i>will</i> detect your efforts to circumvent the penalties of dying.

In the event of battery failures or other unforeseeable circumstances, the Fates will give the player a few grace warnings, but after the player screws with them several times, the Fates will no longer accept convenient "battery failures" as an excuse.

That said, be sure to follow their instructions exactly.

_____________________


I probably won't be around to provide frequent updates, but I am actively working on this project. There's just so much that goes into storyboarding, typing out pages of design documentation, hand drawing maps, porting design from paper to computer, etc. It's really a lot of work, and a huge time sink at that.

Just in case I don't post back in a little while, enjoy some of my cheesy concept work in the meantime. Yes, my art skills suck. :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Deep Toaster on January 22, 2014, 04:44:46 pm
I wish I could see these attachments... Sounds like quite a game to look forward to. And on a side note I keep spelling "echelon" as "eschelon" because I get it confused with this title :P

EDIT: Attachments back thanks to Eeems, and they look even more awesome than I thought. I wonder if you could have some sort of viewable map in the game, because the overview looks great (including the font).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 22, 2014, 07:09:45 pm
In terms of difficulty, will the game be more like the hard mode of Final Fantasy II (NES) for the Playstation, more like the hard version of FFVI or more like Ghost N Goblins hard?
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on January 28, 2014, 12:01:00 am
I don't know how I came up with the title of Escheron. I was trying to think of what to call the game world, and that's the first idea that came to mind. Awkward coincidence how it's similar to ESCHELON, the U.S. data surveillance network.

Quote
In terms of difficulty, will the game be more like the hard mode of Final Fantasy II (NES) for the Playstation, more like the hard version of FFVI or more like Ghost N Goblins hard?

The best comparison I can think of is the NES version of Dragon Warrior II + Final Fantasy II (the original Famicom game previously not released outside Japan) + some rougelike-lite elements.

FF4 Hard Type should be easier than Escheron. You can always grind your way to victory at any point in that game, whereas Escheron has a cut off point determined by so-called "safe zones."

You're not safe to leave the current area you're in until you've reached the highest stats the game will allow you to attain by fighting the enemies encountered in that area. At that point, you can move into a new area with tougher enemies, and these new enemies will allow you to resume grinding your stats to higher values. All of this is controlled by the rank system mentioned earlier.

If you try to venture into a different zone too early, not only will you not even be able to damage any of the enemies there, but they'll probably kill you with a single attack.

There are a few other things worth mentioning that really kick the difficulty up a notch:

 - A lot of enemies at different stages in the game have access to instant K.O. spells. Resistance to this effect is determined the target's maximum HP. The weaker K.O. spell is no longer effect against a target when it's maximum HP is above 40, and the strongest K.O. spell won't affect targets with over 128 HP.
 
 The early to mid-game sequences will be pretty daunting for this reason. Maya should have over 128 HP by the time she reaches the final dungeon, but due to cut offs and safe zones, she definitely won't be able to attain that much HP before then. Just hope you don't get ambushed by any spell-casters half-way into a long dungeon.

 - Armor has a weight factor that penalizes reaction speed. Reaction speed determines battle turn order, preemptive strike rate and probability of fleeing an encounter. If you aren't careful, you will not only ensure that Maya is consistently ambushed by every enemy she encounters, but that she also can't flee from them.

 - If Maya tries to attack fire-based enemies directly, she'll be burned. This is a pretty straightforward counterattack mechanism. To make things tricky, there are a few enemies that are not only fire-based, but have ridiculously high defense power.
 
 This counterattack formula is based <i>only</i> on Maya's raw attack power, not a percentage of how much damage she actually dealt to the enemy after its defense power had been factored into the equation. In other words, Maya may be able to inflict maybe 1 or 2 points of damage with an attack, but she'll suffer an upward of 120+ damage as a result of coming in contact with the enemy's flames. Thankfully, critical hits don't return additional damage against Maya.
 
 Magic spells ignore defense power since there's no special type of defense against magic, so these enemies aren't extremely challenging as long as you have plenty of MP to get you through hoards of random encounters with them. Alternatively, you can just run. You'll be doing a lot of that anyway.

 - The attack formula used by undead enemies is different from the standard attack formula used by both Maya and most typical enemies. Undead attacks shave off a direct percentage of Maya's maximum HP, ignore her defense power, and heal the enemy in return. This means undead enemies encountered in the very first areas of the game are still just as deadly even after you've been to the final dungeon and back.
 
 On the other hand, undead enemies have frail bodies, little HP and the lowest defense power in the game. As long as Maya is fast enough to get the first attack, she doesn't have to worry. Undead enemies are mostly a problem early on when they appear in large groups, because Maya won't have access to a multi-target spell until the middle of the game. But...
 
 - There are (rare) enemies that are both fire-based and undead. The counterattack damage will render your HP critical, then the enemy's actual attack will probably finish you off. If that doesn't do the trick, then their instant K.O. spells will. :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on January 28, 2014, 09:34:02 pm
So I have a question for you. Would you be against the idea of quick saves? Or if we have the ability to implement them should we? I feel that on the platform we are programming this for it would be unwise to not be able to exit ... err promptly.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 23, 2014, 07:02:55 pm
A subproject is currently being worked on, which has largely been kept a secret until now. We call it Aegis-Rin.
Try not to think too hard about the name. I didn't when I named it.

In short, it's planned to be a fully modular RPG engine. Me and geekboy has this entire project planned out and are working towards the goal of completing it in a reasonable time.

What we have: Text script system (fully programmable, with its own stack and registers), custom font driver, tilemap renderer and loader, tileset loader, an honest-to-god sprite routine (!), movement and collision detection.

What we don't have yet: Event system (current tile ID, current position [hotspot], timer-based (either realtime or based on steps/actions), interact-key), example scripts to recreate things such as menu systems and NPC dialog, and the PC-side tools needed to pull together the data needed for the loaders to work.

At the end of this subproject, we will have created a fully functional test RPG that does all the things that a much larger RPG (such as E:SoR) should be able to do. The test should be short, easy, and silly. Hint: It's about cherries.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 23, 2014, 11:15:23 pm
/me is really excited about the work you guys have been doing.
This is gonna be awesome! ;D
Title: Re: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on February 24, 2014, 01:54:32 am
Also the joy of the text system/script system we have in place is the ability to handle math inside of it in a lot easier fashion then pure assembly.  So we can do more complex math to give the game a better feel to it! Oh and it's probably Turing complete, mini games anyone ;p
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 24, 2014, 02:09:40 am
Seems nice. This reminds me of Zelda: Test of Courage a decade ago. The engine was re-used in E:SoR. Some Illusiat games also did that, same for Reuben 2. It can be handy since it lets you create a fully functional game engine without having to code a totally massive game right from the start (which could overwhelm you otherwise).
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Streetwalrus on February 24, 2014, 06:50:46 am
I did not catch up on this thread but it's nice to see a large RPG is being revived. :D I wish you luck guys.
Title: Re: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on February 24, 2014, 09:56:34 am
Thanks we are going to need it :p though we have goals in sight for the current project which is helping things along immensely (we aren't coding around like a monkey on a typewriter)  so progress is being made.  It's scary though how interlinked all the code aspects get.  In some shape or form.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Zera on February 24, 2014, 10:16:18 pm
Since Iambian is still poking around, there's something I wanted to ask him:

How do you feel about the direction of the project? I've done a few rewrites on account of some of the difficulty we had with the original grayscale concept. Do you think we should officially move away from the old assets and stick with the newer, more simplified design? (i.e. The recent mock-ups I posted)

So I have a question for you. Would you be against the idea of quick saves? Or if we have the ability to implement them should we? I feel that on the platform we are programming this for it would be unwise to not be able to exit ... err promptly.

I guess it could be implemented, as long as it doesn't aid in save scumming. A quicksave file would have to be erased as soon as its resumed.

an honest-to-god sprite routine

About time. :P
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on February 24, 2014, 10:37:17 pm
So I have a question for you. Would you be against the idea of quick saves? Or if we have the ability to implement them should we? I feel that on the platform we are programming this for it would be unwise to not be able to exit ... err promptly.
I guess it could be implemented, as long as it doesn't aid in save scumming. A quicksave file would have to be erased as soon as its resumed.

Yes it would be treated exactly like that. I just see kids playing this in class and not being able to quick save would make it playable during class and such which IMO is the broad user base for the game.

Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 24, 2014, 10:46:39 pm
I'm still going to keep the old assets as it's just another folder. An additional project can be made in b/w, but after the subproject is finished. People are expecting a full 4 level grayscale game, and they've been waiting for it for ages. We're gonna deliver that at some point.

Also, I wouldn't be worried about save scumming on the calcs, since most of the time, yanking a battery while running a typical assembly program results in data loss. Most people wouldn't think of doing something like that to try save scum. They might do things such as rename/copy files. If you wanted to protect against save scumming, you would want to keep something of a counter on hand to check against the version of the save file being presented. If there's a mismatch, then you could call them out on it.
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Streetwalrus on February 25, 2014, 03:33:29 am
/me suggests an md5 in smc
/me runs
Title: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Iambian on February 25, 2014, 02:01:13 pm
There was actually some suggestions in HCWP (off-day) that involved using MD5 hardware and messing around with the certificate page. I suggested writing to the boot code if the calc is a newer model, but that suggestion got shot down and I then suggested writeback to the app.

I don't think I'm going to make the protection too strong, but I am going to make it such that if you want to cheat, you're gonna have to work at it.
Title: Re: Re: Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth
Post by: Geekboy1011 on February 25, 2014, 02:20:29 pm
Kerm said cert is to unsafe to muck with, a write back of the app is better and easier to achieve safely.  Also why not just store the md5 back? Might be best :p because the chances for a collision are very hard.