Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Discontinued => Major Community Projects => Escheron: Shadow over Ragnoth => Topic started by: Iambian on January 14, 2010, 12:03:39 am
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I'm gonna go ahead and use this thread to post varying images that have been produced for this game. They may be screenshots. They may be other things. This post will be updated each time I have something to add, though I will (if legit) bump the topic and let it be known.
( 1 ) The first contribution I've got to add is a map of Escheron in all its goodness, with markings that show all the important parts. The small airship symbol next to the names means you need to fly to get there. Courtesy of Zera.
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looks very nice ^^
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I'm glad you're not as selfish as I am in terms of posting storyline. Thank you for the info, and the map is sweet!
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That's great! Is that the full map for the game, or just part of it?
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I really like the 3d-ish look of the map. Very cool. ^^
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Is that the full map for the game, or just part of it?
This only represents the overworld. (but all of the location markers are there) There's also an underworld to explore, and various dungeons located within other maps; so they aren't indicated on the main overworld itself.
It's a fairly small world, and there are quite a few locations that are linked together by detours and alternative exits.
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Looking at it carefully, now, didn't that used to be the map for the first Lost Legends?
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Looking at it carefully, now, didn't that used to be the map for the first Lost Legends?
Oh, no. The original LL world is really... minuscule. You can still find a bitmap of it here (http://lostlegends.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Design%20Resources/maps_(calcgs)/bitmaps/gaia.bmp).
I consider LL a failed project at this point. The scope of the game was just too small for something that would demand so much attention to detail; and there was a general lack of expertise on my part. It doesn't help that our programming team went missing-in-action :P
I already decided that Escheron is an independent game at this point. There is really no relation between the two games in the first place. Besides -- Escheron is far more advanced, and has a lot more to offer than LL ever would have. I don't think anyone is missing out on anything.
I did turn the project over to Galandros, but beyond that, I have no idea how it's coming along... if at all. That's entirely up to him. As far as I'm concerned, the assets, the story -- everything -- is his to do as he pleases with.
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Oh wow I remember now. I guess I got confused. I think all old LL and LL2 images are still avaliable at http://www.omnimaga.org/images/screenshots/ and have been for ages, but they had so weird file names that I couldn't remember them.
It still sucks LL1 died, tho, that could have also been a nice RPG. It would sure have been smaller and more limited but still nice to play and would have fitted the need of people who prefer smaller file sizes
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Hah. I can't believe all those old images are still on the server. It's interesting to see how much things progress along the way.
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Since the images were always hosted on a different server than the forums during the entire time we were on Invisionfree, everything uploaded since the boards opening remained there. The folder was never open for public browsing until maybe this Summer, though, where I thought it would be cool if all these lost screenshots were avaliable again for public (even some from projects I worked on back in 2004-05). Right after the move, I moved all files on the same webspace as my MTVMG forum. Heck, I even discovered recently that one of the old board emoticon webspace is still up. I forgot the URL, though. It was in the IRC logs.
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Can't neglect this thread. I'll leave some recent screenshots here:
(http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/8573/wabbitemu5.gif) (http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/5444/wabbitemu3.gif) (http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1439/wabbitemu2.gif)
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4135/wabbitemu10.gif) (http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/9785/wabbitemu4.gif) (http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/1318/wabbitemu1.gif)
(http://img532.imageshack.us/img532/6958/wabbitemu.gif) (http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3083/wabbitemu8.gif) (http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/9773/wabbitemu7.gif)
(http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/899/wabbitemu6.gif) (http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6958/wabbitemu.gif) (http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/3383/wabbitembu.gif)
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Yay! I always loved the FF4 and Mystic Quest feel in this (and a bit of FF1-2 too)
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I was hoping to reflect a "Final Fantasy" feel. Honestly, that has been the biggest inspiration for the game.
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Wow... those look amazing. Keep up the great work!
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I was hoping to reflect a "Final Fantasy" feel. Honestly, that has been the biggest inspiration for the game.
the screenshots that always shock me are the crystal world type rooms like this one:
(http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4135/wabbitemu10.gif)
They are my favourite so far, it reminds me so much FFIV final dungeon areas
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They are my favourite so far, it reminds me so much FFIV final dungeon areas
The Lunar substrata was the inspiration behind this dungeon. I didn't want to produce a carbon-copy, though, so there are some distinct differences. Here are some more shots:
(http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/1439/wabbitemu2.gif) (http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1318/wabbitemu1.gif) (http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/5444/wabbitemu3.gif) (http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6958/wabbitemu.gif)
The whole dungeon is four levels long. (descending) Some of the toughest monsters in the game appear here -- including the various dragons that are otherwise rarely encountered in other parts of the game world. There's also a number of rare equipment to be found, in preparation for the final battle.
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Substrata? Do you mean Subterran?
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Substrata? Do you mean Subterran?
I can't remember what FFIV called it. It may have been "Lunar Subterrane." "Substrata" would mean the same thing, though. English has too many synonyms. :P
Maya is not the only playable character, by the way. There is a brief period where you get to control Edmund. (though, not necessarily as demonstrated in the screenshots provided)
(http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/6958/wabbitemu.gif) (http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/1318/wabbitemu1.gif)
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These looks nice ^^
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Excellent work! All the screenies look incredible. I think I like the crystal world type dungeon best. :D
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I love how everything has a kind of 'depth' to it, looks totally awesome!
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This really isn't related to Escheron, but I didn't think it merited a thread all its own.
I was kind of going over this idea earlier to give Lost Legends (1) a reboot. I don't know if Galandros is actively working on the game or not, but I figured the project was either in a permanent hiatus, or maybe he lost interest in it. Either way, it was just a random idea.
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/5606/mockup1.png)
I thought it might be interesting to try applying everything I've learned about game development up until this point, and produce the absolute most detail I can fit into 4-level grayscale. Suffice it to say, it's more detailed than Escheron is. It's not particularly robust, though. I mean, it's still just plain old 4-level grayscale. The tileset would barely be any larger than the original one used in LL, since there are only a few extra tiles for additional details.
I also thought the original ideas were just really... amateur. If I ever returned to actively developing the game, I would want to do things right this time. Maybe if and when Escheron is finished, I can just recycle the game engine to produce this.
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I don't remember if he is still working on it, but IIRC he said it was not dead. You would probably need to ask him directly via PM in case he miss this post.
But DARN! This is looking really NICE! I like the amount of details there's in this. For some reasons, this looks better with 4 level grayscale than if you used 16 colors in NES style.
The original LL1 was still quite nice, though, it would have deserved a ticalc feature if released. LL2 blew it out of the water, though. Now this is awesome too. Nice job.
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I always liked the way I handled the inventory system in LL1. I more or less replicated what Final Fantasy Legend did: A character had a personal inventory that could hold any type of item. When you went into battle, your characters didn't actually have commands - they simply selected which item from their inventory they wanted to use. This meant you could just stack a ton of swords, staves, bows, and whatever else in your personal inventory and freely select which one you'll attack with during that particular round of combat. Armor was handled a bit differently, as it wasn't something you actually used - you could drop one piece or armor (of each type) in your inventory, and that would mean you always had some kind of defense bonus. Spells were handled in the inventory the same way as weapons - you would go buy a spell book, drop it in your inventory, and use it without any sort of MP cost. (every item had a finite number of uses, or "durability" of sorts)
So, yeah... I really want to revisit that idea at some point. If this is something I end-up working on after Escheron, I'll definitely have a lot of fun with it.
EDIT: Here's a map concept of Glendale using an incomplete tileset:
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/4352/20100421034309.png)
The old map as a comparison:
(http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5476/grendale.png)
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0.o this is awesome!
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That's incredible! I hope you work on that sometime, as the graphics have blown me away. Wow! Awesome job! ;D
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wow awesome! We can see the major difference a lot. The old one was nice but new one is even better. Old one is more Dragon-Warrior style and new one more FF1 style. Nice job
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I really like the graphics for river! It doesn't look like it's tile based. Nice job!
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Some ideas for the menu system...
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5606/mockup1.png)
So far, I was thinking a pseudo-transparent window constructed of 4x4 pieces. The main font would be 8x8 - which is kind of large. There was no other way to practically display the number of colors I needed to make the font stand out, in lieu of having a pseudo-transparent window.
This is all just a concept at this point. I would still need to add equipment icons and such to the font, and a sub-font to be displayed within window frame elements. (such as to indicate which menu you're in)
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ooh that would be nice. The fonts would need to be thick enough (or have a border) to be certain to stand out and be easy to read, like the Broadsword text
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Well, at least the current text is legible. I was kind of worried it might look like it blends-in with the window too much.
If I go with a sort of comic font like that, I may actually try to design something that's animated. (such as the text initially being smaller, but increasing in size when you hover over it)
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animated would be nice ^^
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That map is an epic win!
As for the menu, I'm not too fond of the pseudo-transparent windows. Animated text would be cool, though.
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You should PM me.
Now I saw the pictures. That are revamped graphics of the original LLI design. It was the first thing I though without reading the text. The tiles are familiar to me. :P
I don't have for now the experience and skill to deal with a engine complex like the Escheron that Iambian works.
The current LLI is enough challenge to me and I feel capable with time. I still work a bit on it through the asm routines I write. Some of them were specifically target to LLI like the optimized DispHL_game I share on forums and WikiTI.
But if you give the updated graphics I will surely use them. ;) I think the mock ups keep the 64x64 sprites. They really look cute.
We can talk more through mail.
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You should PM me.
Now I saw the pictures. That are revamped graphics of the original LLI design. It was the first thing I though without reading the text. The tiles are familiar to me. :P
I don't have for now the experience and skill to deal with a engine complex like the Escheron that Iambian works.
The current LLI game is enough challenge to me and I feel capable to finish but taking my time. I still work a bit on it through the asm routines I write. Some of them were specifically target to LLI like the optimized DispHL_game I shared on forums and WikiTI.
But if you give the updated graphics I will surely use them. ;) I think the mock ups keep the 16x16 sprites. They really look cute.
Borders are actually piece of cake if you put them in the custom font. ;) That is what I am doing in LLI, already.
My limitations: I can not write my own 4x4 engine. It is too hard for me...
We can talk further. Maybe do its own topic or via mail.
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I bet you could pull off a 4x4 routine, just a small rethink is all.
Id be glad to give you some pointers if required :).
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You should PM me.
Now I saw the pictures. That are revamped graphics of the original LLI design. It was the first thing I though without reading the text. The tiles are familiar to me. :P
I don't have for now the experience and skill to deal with a engine complex like the Escheron that Iambian works.
The current LLI game is enough challenge to me and I feel capable to finish but taking my time. I still work a bit on it through the asm routines I write. Some of them were specifically target to LLI like the optimized DispHL_game I shared on forums and WikiTI.
But if you give the updated graphics I will surely use them. ;) I think the mock ups keep the 16x16 sprites. They really look cute.
Borders are actually piece of cake if you put them in the custom font. ;) That is what I am doing in LLI, already.
My limitations: I can not write my own 4x4 engine. It is too hard for me...
We can talk further. Maybe do its own topic or via mail.
Well, it's a redesign of the game from the ground-up. I don't think any of the current systems would be compatible. It does borrow from some of the original ideas, but some changes are going to be so radical that several things will need to be rewritten. The inventory is slightly different: Instead of a general item inventory and personal character inventories, you have a character inventory with up to six items, (weapons, potions and shields of any kind) and a static inventory that displays your currently-equipped armor, as well as key items. You don't manage a large inventory of armor - you only have a single "slot" where armor is placed, and grabbing new armor replaces the one that's currently equipped. There's no general inventory where items that aren't in use can be stored away for later. In fact, the number of items available has been significantly reduced, as there is only one playable character.
I'm still drawing-up many of the details, though. Pretty much all existing assets are going to be replaced. I can contact you with more details.
This is what the *entire* usable item selection looks like:
Qt. (quantity / durability / # of uses)
Act (item initiative / rate at which character acts)
-- (infinite quantity)
x1 (normal initiative)
x2 (double initiative)
** (critical initiative / first to act)
.. (no initiative / last to act)
/2 (half initiative)
(S) sword
(L) lance / spear
(A) axe
(M) staff / magical device
(W) shield / ward
(P) potion
Item | Qt.| Act| Effect
----------+----+----+-----------------------------------------------------------
(S)BROAD | 40 | x1 | STR = DMG (full efficiency)
(S)KATANA | 20 | x2 | AGI = DMG (full efficiency)
(S)STURDY | -- | x1 | STR = DMG (half efficiency)
(S)RUSTED | 1 | x1 | Fixed DMG = 1
(S)GLASS | 1 | ** | Fixed DMG = 99
(L)GLAIVE | 30 | .. | Random DMG = 12..24; 1/4 chance for 2x attack
(A)RENDER | 30 | /2 | STR = DMG; (full efficiency) ignore DEF
(M)DEVOUT | 10 | ** | Magic: Restore HP (base MAG efficiency)
(M)HADES | 10 | /2 | Magic: Damage (base MAG efficiency)
(W)DRAGON | 10 | ** | +20 DEF for 3 turns
(W)AEGIS | 10 | ** | halve all damage for 3 turns
(P)POTION | 3 | ** | Restore HP (12..24)
(P)ELIXIR | 1 | ** | Restore all HP
(P)REMEDY | 3 | ** | Heal status
Some items can be bought, and others are unique. I kept it limited because the character will be required to swap existing items out if his inventory is full when acquiring a new item. Items are also destructible, so they eventually wear-out and have to be replaced, keeping the inventory from cluttering.
EDIT: Menu mock-up, take-2:
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/7471/image1pz.png)
The "BROAD" string is larger, to indicate it's highlighted in the menu. There won't be a cursor this time - item strings just appear larger to indicate which item you're on.
Also working out some battle details. I'm thinking about a system where you don't even transition into a battle sequence; instead, conflicts are resolved directly on the map. Enemy sprites would randomly appear in front of the player, and obstruct his path. The player would then register commands, and both the player and enemy sprite would take turns exchanging blows. (this would consist of short animations between the two) Once conflict is resolved, the player goes back to normal exploration.
Perhaps it's a bit difficult to explain on paper, but I will try to have some mock-ups soon.
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I wonder if it would be better if the top part of the fonts also was black bordered? Because at the moment it seems a bit hard to read and looks a bit cut-off. Nice looking fonts, though, and I like the icons on the side.
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I bet you could pull off a 4x4 routine, just a small rethink is all.
Id be glad to give you some pointers if required :).
I can get the theory. It is just question of shifts and masking.
But I have hard time implementing more complicated things in assembly. It is very hard to not destroy registers or mess up somewhere. So is better to start practising with simpler things first. I moved from TI-BASIC to assembly, so I don't have any C background to help me.
Anyway I accept you offer, when I need some help I will try to find you in IRC or email. Thanks. :]
@Zera: I don't mind writing a engine from scratch for the new graphics but only after I finish the old engine so I have more practise.
But I still would enjoy code the original LLI design with some balance changes and better map graphics.
I understood the battle system in the map, that is actually a good idea.
I would really like to release LLI this year.
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I hope LL1 gets revived eventually. I would immediately play it as soon as it comes out.
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I wonder if it would be better if the top part of the fonts also was black bordered? Because at the moment it seems a bit hard to read and looks a bit cut-off. Nice looking fonts, though, and I like the icons on the side.
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/8499/image1cq.png)
Added pixels to the top row of the smaller font. I can't add any to the larger / highlighted font, as it already uses the entire column.
Does this seem more legible?
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I can read it but it's a tad difficult to do so. Also, to me, it's kind of difficult to tell that the highlighted entry is bigger. Buuut, that's just me. If everybody else loves it, roll with it. Don't change it up just because one guy with horrible eyesight complains :P
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I have some additional space to the left and right. I could extend the width of the border around some of the text.
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Looks better now ^^
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I suppose I should move this discussion over to its own thread. I'm not really sure where to place it, though. The game really isn't related to Escheron in any way. (although, I was starting to worry about the lack of activity therein :P )
Maybe I could start a thread in Calculator Projects?
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Maybe calc projects would do. You could either start a new thread or necropost in the 2 years old LL1 topic :P
and yeah I noticed an overall activity decrease. I checked the board yesterday noon time and there were maybe 10 active topics, then when I checked near midnight, only 4 had new posts in it (normally, about 15-20 do during such period).
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I'll probably start a discussion there once I have more assets. (to produce some mock-ups with) Don't want to start a project thread empty-handed. :)
In the meantime, last update on this before I get around to starting a thread later on:
(http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1820/20100422232509.png)
I'm still working on the tileset. I'm trying to give each area and dungeon its own set of tiles, as opposed to recycling them over and over. This is for the Kujata Highruin that appear later on in the game. It's based on this dungeon: (which wasn't as robustly named)
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/7420/templeofruin.png)
The area also leads to the Coliseum, where you could face two optional bosses. I've truncated it down to a single optional boss, but I'm also going to extend the coliseum into a much larger labyrinth. (more or less, to challenge the player after the normal game is cleared)
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wow huge improvement!
And I love the details on the holes. How many tiles are there for them?
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wow huge improvement!
And I love the details on the holes. How many tiles are there for them?
Uh, I think those were nine. I can't remember exactly.
I am kind of wasting space on the smaller details, but there aren't a whole lot of unique areas to be explored. I figured I could go that extra mile with the aesthetics this time. In fact, there are only 16 areas in the game:
The Grand Duchy of Glendale - village
Province of St. Agaea - essentially what you would consider an overworld, but there's not much here
The Eternal Wood - sub-dungeon
Cavern of Flame - sub-dungeon
The Corel Sea - another section of the "worldmap"
Village of Corel - village
Flowstone Passage - sub-dungeon
Temple of Lorelei - sub-village
The Apprentice's Study - sub-village
Anchorite Peaks - dungeon
Anchorite Summit - an extension of the Anchorite Peaks, which serves as a transporter hub to and from other locales
Kujata Empyrean - another extension of the "overworld"
Kujata Highruins - sub-dungeon
Coliseum - dungeon
Forgotten Pantheon - dungeon
Chimaera - village
I'm using a to-scale map design, so every area leads directly to the next. You don't have to navigate a whole overworld with little icons representing towns and dungeons. The game world is fairly small, but there are a few magical transporters that link you to and from specific locations once you reach certain points of the game. I'm hoping for a 45-minute game overall.
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Yeah I remember the original LL didn't have many areas. If you go through a similar route, you should be able to put more details in the game since you won't have as many maps.
I like the to-scale map idea. In Illusiat 2, 3, 4 and 6, there was a world map and in Illusiat 7, 9, 10 and 11 when exiting an area you ended up in a menu. However, I started to not like it as much and in Illusiat 12 I started linking each areas directly so it looks more like a huge world than stages. Illusiat 13 was that way too.
Since the game is small, you could maybe add a bit of grinding, altough not too much either, to take it above one hour. However even if it's shorter it will be sure visually pleasing.
EDIT: Oh btw nice areas titles
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While it is only supposed to be a sub-hour overall game time, what do you think the replay value is going to be? Will it be worth playing again to go with a different setup? or will it be too mundane after the first couple times?
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While it is only supposed to be a sub-hour overall game time, what do you think the replay value is going to be? Will it be worth playing again to go with a different setup? or will it be too mundane after the first couple times?
Probably no real replay value. There's not much you can do with your character. I'm not including any kind of one-time quests that disappear later on, or items that can be passed-up and missed altogether. Even if you rush through the game, you can go back and reclaim anything you missed along the way. There's a fair amount of hidden treasures, though. If you don't find them the first time you play the game, maybe you will notice them upon replaying. (or back-tracking)
I've also ruled-out random battles. Enemies will appear on the maps themselves. Many will obstruct your only available path, forcing you to confront them each time you walk that path.
I wanted this to be a very casual RPG that you could run over and over again. Maybe I will add some option to start a "New Game+" with all your previous stats and equipment intact, and a scaling difficulty that gradually increases with each subsequent play-through.
It's also worth mentioning that there is no Game-Over sequence. If you perish in battle, you're forced to retry it from the start, with all the initial conditions restored. There is practically no need for saving the game. (though I'm sure I'll include the option, anyway)
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A new game + would be cool. Maybe add a second version of the final boss in the next run, with a few more enemies on the map along your way (some that are harder), and the second final boss form could maybe be much harder, then on the 3rd run, the final boss only has one form again, but really his true form and requires maxed out stats with the best equipments?
And if I was you I would still allow game saving, even if only possible in the town, for example. I like the option to retry a battle like in FF:MQ on the SNES. Of course include the option to give up, though :P, lol
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I thought about adding a "Flee" option during battles. It would transport you back to the entrance of the dungeon if used, and would always succeed. (even against bosses) I don't want the player to get stuck in a battle they can't finish. Of course, fleeing means all the enemies on that floor reset; so you're not making it any easier on yourself if you rush right back in.
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Aaaah ok. Lol at first when I started reading this post I was afraid you would let ppl stuck in an impossible battle but then I was happy bosses would be escapable x.x. I would hate having to pull a battery everytime I ran into a boss I can't beat x.x
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Okay. Last update this time. I promise. :P
(I really will get around to another thread soon, since I almost have the tileset finished)
(http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/171/image14d.png)
This is an early mock-up from the Cavern of Flame. I've been working on a visual demonstration of some of the dungeon arrangements. I wanted it to be more diverse than "walk over to here, find exit." I'm trying to include actual labyrinths, various obstacles, things you can climb, or really narrow pathways that might lead to nowhere. This dungeon is just intended to be confusing, because you're running along very narrow rocks protruding from the lava. There will also be enemies placed along these paths.
If you notice, there are two types of chests here: The normal chests, and then a darker variation. The latter holds some of the rarer, more powerful equipment in the game. These are locked, and you have to backtrack to retreive them much later on when you acquire the key.
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wow really nice :O will it be possible to fall into lava and take damage?
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I suppose I could designate a special lava tile that you can walk into. Maybe it would reset you back to the beginning of that floor.
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that could work too. I think Final Fantasy 6 had this in the Esper Cave or something
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wow really nice :O will it be possible to fall into lava and take damage?
I like this and the greyscale, but looking at an ENTIRE map hurts my eyes. X_X
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i think it should look fine on calc.
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Zera, you are a brilliant map designer :)
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Thanks; but I think I could use a lot of improvement. I've picked up a few skills since Escheron, though. Escheron was only the second game I've made maps for.
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I don't think it should be completly rewritten, though. I like how it is right now. I feel that it can lead projects nowhere if people just rewrite over and over. They never see any progress in that case. Of course, it's fine if it doesn't require Iambian any work, though.
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Oh, I didn't mean I was going to redesign anything. I was just commenting that I've picked up some knowledge from my experience with Escheron. Escheron is going to remain as it is.
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OOoh ok I see ^^
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This is just .. amazing
I can't believe what I've been missing out on for the past half year. Good work and keep it up!
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Yes, necropost ;)
but, I could not help but look over your tiles with awe. I have never seen 4 level grayscale 16x16 tiles this good before, and I doubt illmsee anything close for a long time, if ever. They're literally a work of art. They put most 16 bit color tiles in snes RPGs to shame, for real.
Bravo :D
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Yeah I agree it's really great. I hope it won't ever die as project and gets finished one day.
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@Ashbad:They DO look very good, however, many of these tiles Zera used are from or are modified from pre-existing RPGs. I believe Final Fantasy I and Final Fantasy IV in particular were large contributors, as Zera is a fan of the series.
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Yeah true. I think no matter where they come from, they were used very well, though, in E:SoR.