### Author Topic: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2  (Read 4423 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

#### Hot_Dog

• If you can't find a cat, look for its tail.
• CoT Emeritus
• LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
• Posts: 2966
• Rating: +445/-10
##### Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« on: February 26, 2011, 05:11:28 pm »
And I'm a zerg player, so that's saying something.

So I hear many, many people talking about how Terrans are OP and they blame a loss on that.  I was actually playing against a Terran player and lost in 10 minutes.  He made a sad face and said "Not gg" cause he was hoping for a longer game.  He also said "Yeah, Terran are OP" (which made me think "Yeah, and that's why you play them, huh?")

No.  I lost because I made mistakes.  I usually eat Terran players for breakfast.

Terrans are certainly the easiest race to use, as well as the most flexible.  The basic unit has both air and ground attack, all units have ranged attacks, bunkers and turrets can be placed anywhere, and tech switches are available simply by switching two buildings.

But everything has a counter.  Siege tanks have to get in and out of siege mode, and they splash damage on each other trying to kill one zergling or broodling.  Hellions in late game don't stand a chance against speed banelings or stalkers.  Grouped-up thors are bad against roaches with zergling support, void rays, carriers, you name it.

Of course they're the most flexible race, so if you aren't spying on them, OF COURSE you're going to die.  Like any other race, you need to spy on your opponent and find out what he's doing.  That's partly why I like zerg: overlords and overseers work perfectly against a walled-up base.

A brief word on MULEs: No, they are not OP.  First of all, it costs 150 minerals before you can even begin to build them.  Secondly, they help the terran because terran, believe it or not, need a BUFF on mineral gathering.  Protoss can chrono-boost probes, and Zerg can build 8-15 drones at a time.  Terran is stuck with build one SCV at each Command Center. If it weren't for MULEs, Terran would lose the economic advantage rather quickly.
There are people who can speak two languages, and they are called bilingual.  There are people who speak three languages and are therefore trilingual.  Then there are people who speak one language, and these people are called Americans.

#### Yeong

• Not a bridge
• LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
• Posts: 3739
• Rating: +278/-12
• Survivor of Apocalypse
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2011, 07:27:15 pm »
Damn straight...Also, they don't have anti-massive units if I remember correctly.
Also, if you don't let them wall off, they will fall really easy
And their only good defence structure(bunker) is about to fall to zerg in Heart of the Swarm with that new unit
I think ppl are saying that because MMM tactic is pretty intimidating
It really bugged a lot of people back then...(or is it still?)
2 strongest units in Terran(Thors and BCs) can be easily countered by massing stuff(Zerg)
« Last Edit: February 26, 2011, 08:43:47 pm by yeongJIN_COOL »
Sig wipe!

#### DJ Omnimaga

• Former TI programmer
• CoT Emeritus
• LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
• Posts: 55835
• Rating: +3151/-232
• CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 01:25:28 am »
Yeah a few months ago when they released patch 1.1 I thought they made Terran OP because everyone started going  Marauders/marines instead of Banshee/Reaper rushes and I couldn't figure out how to survive the first push, then people kept saying Terran was actually OP before that patch and it was fixed. When 1.1 came out I ended up demoted to Bronze because of MM pushes, then someone told me I need to out-mass him, meaning getting an expo as soon as possible and get lots of units.

Today I personally have more troubles vs protosses than terran. It's really all about learning what units counter what and also micro. Vs terran I also recommend moving your army in a map corner where he's not likely to scan, so when he scans and see only a few units he'll attack, then you bring your army. I personally try to scout often with fast overlords/seers in case he switches to another strategies.

IMHO Protoss isn't OP either, it's just that you really need to check what they're doing regularly. If they go collosus and you have no corruptors, you're dead, unless you have like 80 roaches or something.

Personally I don't like Terran much, though, because of all SCVs that ends up idling around the base after building structures and the many different upgrades, but they seem easier to learn than Zerg, since with Zerg if you don't reach T2 and people get air, you're screwed, and T2 takes a while to reach. Also they almost have no T3 units so you need to mass lots of (the right) units vs somebody.

One thing I hate with Terran is that scouting them is much harder, since they always wall, then get one marine to destroy the overlord that's slowly getting in, so you don,t have time to check everything such as if he got gas or not, and finally, some terran players will turtle, surrounding their base with like 10 turrets.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### Hot_Dog

• If you can't find a cat, look for its tail.
• CoT Emeritus
• LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
• Posts: 2966
• Rating: +445/-10
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 01:49:59 am »
and finally, some terran players will turtle, surrounding their base with like 10 turrets.

I actually wish all terrans turtled.  I gurantee, a turtling terran player is always dead against a zerg player who knows how to play.
There are people who can speak two languages, and they are called bilingual.  There are people who speak three languages and are therefore trilingual.  Then there are people who speak one language, and these people are called Americans.

#### DJ Omnimaga

• Former TI programmer
• CoT Emeritus
• LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
• Posts: 55835
• Rating: +3151/-232
• CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 02:02:22 am »
Yeah, but it depends if while turtling they also attack non-stop. When they turtle I usually try to get brood lords asap, but by then a giant marine/marauder push can arrive. Of course there's also mass banelings+mutas. Send mutas to destroy tanks while baneling bust arrives
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### Yeong

• Not a bridge
• LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
• Posts: 3739
• Rating: +278/-12
• Survivor of Apocalypse
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 08:03:26 am »
Turtling won't work anymore in HotS because, like I said, zerg will be able to infest bunkers(with units inside)
Later, they might call that zerg is OPs after HotS...
Sig wipe!

#### DJ Omnimaga

• Former TI programmer
• CoT Emeritus
• LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
• Posts: 55835
• Rating: +3151/-232
• CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2011, 03:00:08 am »
Although I guess maybe they'll add some counters to this. I am pretty sure terran will make tanks powerful against units that can infest bunkers or the like. But usually, people turtle with tanks and turrets anyway now. I rarely ever see people using bunkers anymore in SC2 Bnet. The issue is that that kind of defense wastes quite a bit of supply, so if you aren't going marine/marauders it can be annoying to get T3 units.

IMHO I think if Terran was OP Blizzard would fix it right away because there would be even more complaints about it. The key to win is really scouting. Sure, there's unit composition, micro, macro, but even if you're pro in all of these, if you never scout, you don't know what your opponent is doing so you're dead. I myself sometimes sacrify an overlord every now and then to see what's going on in their base and I have a zergling wandering accross the map to see if he got expos/group of units elsewhere.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### Hot_Dog

• If you can't find a cat, look for its tail.
• CoT Emeritus
• LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
• Posts: 2966
• Rating: +445/-10
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2011, 03:04:28 am »
Turtling won't work anymore in HotS because, like I said, zerg will be able to infest bunkers(with units inside)

Where'd you find this out?
There are people who can speak two languages, and they are called bilingual.  There are people who speak three languages and are therefore trilingual.  Then there are people who speak one language, and these people are called Americans.

#### DJ Omnimaga

• Former TI programmer
• CoT Emeritus
• LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
• Posts: 55835
• Rating: +3151/-232
• CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2011, 03:05:57 am »
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### jsj795

• LV9 Veteran (Next: 1337)
• Posts: 1105
• Rating: +84/-3
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2011, 03:53:37 am »
IMO, terran seems OP just because zerg and protoss players in lower leagues lack the proper micro-management against terran. terran is a race that requires the least macro-management so they can concentrate on their army micro. Zerg and Protoss requires constant macro management (especially zerg, if you forget one larva spawn, it puts you 4 larvas short), so it is hard for them to both micro their army while working on their macro. When the MMM push with tank comes, the mutas are not even necessary if you know how to micro the speedlings and banelings properly. Put them into two groups, and send in the speedlings in between the tank and the MMM push. Then send in the banelings from the front, effectively sandwiching the marines in between the speedlings and banelings. The Marines will try to stim and run away from banelings, but speedlings will prevent them from running. BAM, there's the green flash (my favorite part) and all the marines+marauders are gone. Pick off the leftover tanks with the speedlings.

Spoiler For funny life mathematics:
1. ROMANCE MATHEMATICS
Smart man + smart woman = romance
Smart man + dumb woman = affair
Dumb man + smart woman = marriage
Dumb man + dumb woman = pregnancy
2. OFFICE ARITHMETIC
Smart boss + smart employee = profit
Smart boss + dumb employee = production
Dumb boss + smart employee = promotion
Dumb boss + dumb employee = overtime
3. SHOPPING MATH
A man will pay $2 for a$1 item he needs.
A woman will pay $1 for a$2 item that she doesn't need.
4. GENERAL EQUATIONS & STATISTICS
A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband.
A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.
A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend.
A successful woman is one who can find such a man.
5. HAPPINESS
To be happy with a man, you must understand him a lot and love him a little.
To be happy with a woman, you must love her a lot and not try to understand her at all.
6. LONGEVITY
Married men live longer than single men do, but married men are a lot more willing to die.
7. PROPENSITY TO CHANGE
A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn't.
A man marries a woman expecting that she won't change, and she does.
8. DISCUSSION TECHNIQUE
A woman has the last word in any argument.
Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.

Girls = Time * Money (Girls are a combination of time and money)
Time = Money (Time is money)
Girls = Money squared (So, girls are money squared)
Money = sqrt(Evil) (Money is also the root of all evil)
Girls = sqrt(Evil) squared (So, girls are the root of all evil squared)
Girls = Evil (Thus, girls are evil)
*Girls=Evil credit goes to Compynerd255*

#### DJ Omnimaga

• Former TI programmer
• CoT Emeritus
• LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
• Posts: 55835
• Rating: +3151/-232
• CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2011, 04:08:33 am »
I am Bronze and I recently played vs a Gold terran who had a similar amount of games and win ratio and I noticed his APM was lower than mine. He also only had one base for a major part of the game, while I had 3 expansions (and eventually 4). I don't know if it's because he didn't play at his highest level, but I eventually won, since I could defend his many mmm drops generally well and I had a huge army of hydras hidden somewhere he's less likely to scan (and far from his sensor tower things). But everytime I play vs Terran, even diamond ones in team games, they almost always have lower APM than me (Around 40-70 while I have 55-80). Zerg definitively requires a lot more units and expansions because of the crappy AA in T1.

Also thanks for the MMM tank tip. I always try to detect his push before it reaches my ramp so I can surround him before his tanks goes in siege mode, but I always surrounded everything, so it was hard for my blings to reach his marines.

I definitively think Terran is the easiest to play aside from trying to not forget idle SCVs all around the base (with zerg you lose the drone and with protoss the probe can warp in multiple structures at once). Also in lower leagues we have troubles surviving mmm+tank pushes when not prepared. I think this is why there are so many Terran players in Bronze and Silver and why Zerg tend to have more trouble getting in higher leagues when this is the only race they play because it's so much harder to learn.

In SC1 I think Zerg is easier to play because Hydras are in T1 instead of 2 and overlords won't need to be morphed into an overseer to detect cloaked units. Also, in SC2, everyone wall their bases, so even in Bronze, if you're zerg, forget about rushing unless you're 6-pooling (which is risky)
« Last Edit: March 02, 2011, 04:10:11 am by DJ_O »
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### Yeong

• Not a bridge
• LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
• Posts: 3739
• Rating: +278/-12
• Survivor of Apocalypse
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2011, 07:28:46 am »
I usually play toss. You can easily prevent MMM rush if you scout early and push with zeal early in the game.
Well, according to everyone who posted here, everyone calls terran ops because they don't scout!(or scout late that is too late by the time you find out their plan)
Also, Terran isn't ops because they left out firebats and medic
Sig wipe!

#### DJ Omnimaga

• Former TI programmer
• CoT Emeritus
• LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
• Posts: 55835
• Rating: +3151/-232
• CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2011, 04:50:22 am »
Yeah. Of course scouting is essential in every game, but with Terran it seems like the early scouting is even more important. One thing is that they just have to scan you instead of sacrifying an overlord or having to build an observatory and observer that risks getting killed by turrets, so they just gotta scan you every few minutes or so, and when they see nothing wrong, they attack.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF

#### jsj795

• LV9 Veteran (Next: 1337)
• Posts: 1105
• Rating: +84/-3
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2011, 06:06:23 am »
Actually, that scan is money, cuz terran could've made a mule instead of the scan, and one mule I believe can mine about 270 minerals in its usage time. So arguably the scan is 270 minerals
« Last Edit: March 03, 2011, 06:06:46 am by jsj795 »

Spoiler For funny life mathematics:
1. ROMANCE MATHEMATICS
Smart man + smart woman = romance
Smart man + dumb woman = affair
Dumb man + smart woman = marriage
Dumb man + dumb woman = pregnancy
2. OFFICE ARITHMETIC
Smart boss + smart employee = profit
Smart boss + dumb employee = production
Dumb boss + smart employee = promotion
Dumb boss + dumb employee = overtime
3. SHOPPING MATH
A man will pay $2 for a$1 item he needs.
A woman will pay $1 for a$2 item that she doesn't need.
4. GENERAL EQUATIONS & STATISTICS
A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband.
A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.
A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend.
A successful woman is one who can find such a man.
5. HAPPINESS
To be happy with a man, you must understand him a lot and love him a little.
To be happy with a woman, you must love her a lot and not try to understand her at all.
6. LONGEVITY
Married men live longer than single men do, but married men are a lot more willing to die.
7. PROPENSITY TO CHANGE
A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn't.
A man marries a woman expecting that she won't change, and she does.
8. DISCUSSION TECHNIQUE
A woman has the last word in any argument.
Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.

Girls = Time * Money (Girls are a combination of time and money)
Time = Money (Time is money)
Girls = Money squared (So, girls are money squared)
Money = sqrt(Evil) (Money is also the root of all evil)
Girls = sqrt(Evil) squared (So, girls are the root of all evil squared)
Girls = Evil (Thus, girls are evil)
*Girls=Evil credit goes to Compynerd255*

#### DJ Omnimaga

• Former TI programmer
• CoT Emeritus
• LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
• Posts: 55835
• Rating: +3151/-232
• CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
##### Re: Imo, Terrans are not OP in SC2
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2011, 03:53:29 pm »
Oh, right, true. THankfully if the terran expands it isn't as much a problem, but if he scans often I guess he can hurt his economy in long terms. The issue against such terran, tho, is that they usually send the first mm push so early that you barely survive it and when the second one arrives you don't have an army ready.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF