Omnimaga

Calculator Community => TI Calculators => General Calculator Help => Topic started by: ferox on January 25, 2011, 04:06:31 pm

Title: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on January 25, 2011, 04:06:31 pm: as the title says, it won't work with me, and i dont know what is wrong? (could be a lot...)
i have downloaded and sent USBDRV8X and MSD8X to my TI 84+, and i got a 2gb usb stick farmatted in FAT16.
i also got a gender changer for usb so that i could use my black link cable which is also use for calc to pc.
but it just keeps giving error 00C0, meaning that there was no usb inserted. i also noticed that, when i tried to link to my pc, my pc couldn't recognise my calc.
but when i deleted USBDRV8X it worked again. I even downgraded the OS to 2.43 (2.55MP first), but it keeps giving error 00C0
btw, what is this boot 1.00 and 1.02?

any suggestions?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 25, 2011, 04:09:26 pm: Some calculators don't work, I believe, due to missing RAM pages. At least I think that is the reason.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: TC01 on January 25, 2011, 04:10:04 pm: I believe (though I'm not sure) that msd8x will only work on the older TI-84+ calculators with extra memory (older hardware revisions). Your calculator, if it's new, likely does not have the extra memory.

Again, I'm not entirely sure though.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on January 25, 2011, 04:13:01 pm: I bought my calc in 2009...
that is pretty new, isn't it?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 25, 2011, 04:15:14 pm: Yeah. See, what apparently happened was for a short time TI made calculators with 8 RAM pages, but only 2 were used for user RAM. Somebody noticed this and they decided to start working with it. Unfortunately, TI stopped production of calcs with extra RAM without making anybody aware of this, so several awesome programs and features lost compatibility, even with the same OS and model.

Most new calcs DO have one extra RAM page which the OS makes slight use of. Still, it can be used for a little less than 16K of RAM. I'm working on making a mini VAT for this 16K to allow users to actually use that extra RAM.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 25, 2011, 04:15:51 pm: Ya, unfortunately it is. I wish I had an older calc :(
Edit: ninja'd
Quote from: Xeda112358 on January 25, 2011, 04:15:14 pm
Most new calcs DO have one extra RAM page which the OS makes slight use of. Still, it can be used for a little less than 16K of RAM. I'm working on making a mini VAT for this 16K to allow users to actually use that extra RAM.

How do we know if we have an extra?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 25, 2011, 04:21:47 pm: I think if you have a USB port, you have at least one extra page of RAM. The OS restart 28h (a.k.a B_Call) makes reference to page 83h (which is how I found out). On that page, the OS uses some memory (if you want more technical detail, I do know a little of what goes on on that page...), but otherwise it leaves most of it alone.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 25, 2011, 04:33:26 pm: how about if it has that huge port at the top?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 25, 2011, 04:45:15 pm: Erm, no clue... I know the extra RAM page is there for the USB port. Are you talking about the port that hooks up to other random equipment (besides your computer) or the serial port?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 25, 2011, 04:50:11 pm: I don't know. I just remember that my old foreign exchange (bother?.. oh well terms don't matter :P ) has this huge section on the top.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 25, 2011, 05:01:45 pm: Ah, the teacher model, maybe... I know all of my teachers had one that was supposed to hook up to a device that hooked up to a television or some other monitor. I am not sure if that one has extra RAM or not.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 25, 2011, 05:04:48 pm: Quote from: Xeda112358 on January 25, 2011, 05:01:45 pm
Ah, the teacher model, maybe... I know all of my teachers had one that was supposed to hook up to a device that hooked up to a television or some other monitor. I am not sure if that one has extra RAM or not.
How did my foreign exchange brother get one from ti's shop?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 25, 2011, 05:08:23 pm: I've no clue. I always assumed it was a teacher model. TI also makes the software that lets you view the screen on a TV or computer. It hooks up to the giant port (it is like 1/2 or 1/3 the width of the calc, if I remember correctly) and then hooks into the machine which transfers the data to the tv/computer screen.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 25, 2011, 05:10:53 pm: I think that must be it.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 25, 2011, 05:16:22 pm: Okay, well if that is the case, I am not sure if it has the extra RAM page. I am pretty sure, though, that all 84+ and all all 84+SE have at least one extra page and I am slightly less certain(but still fairly certain) that the 83+SE has an extra RAM page. The 83+ is what I am not sure about.

Regardless, fewer calculators have all 8 RAM pages (128KB), so certain apps like MSD8x or some Omnicalc functions (the virtual calc stuff) will not work.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ztrumpet on January 25, 2011, 05:21:27 pm: I believe it's reversion 'F' calcs and before. :)
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: jnesselr on January 25, 2011, 10:43:41 pm: Quote from: ztrumpet on January 25, 2011, 05:21:27 pm
I believe it's reversion 'F' calcs and before. :)
I have revision F, and it works with msd8x. The port is only hooking up to the LCD directly, if I recall correctly, so that shouldn't deal with extra ram pages or not.

The problem you are having is that you have a mini-B cable plugged into your calc, which is only for peripheral mode. I did the same thing until brandonw told me that you needed a mini-A to female-A cable, which you can find online. This is because the mini-A has the ID wire grounded, which identifies it to the calc as being host, or in other words, the calc sees that there is a cable there, regardless of what is at the other end.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 25, 2011, 10:48:36 pm: He said he got the other program working though???

I am buying a mini a male to mini b male from ti.
And a mini B female to standard a male from deakextreme.
and i already own a standard a female to standard a female coupler :P
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: jnesselr on January 25, 2011, 11:00:40 pm: I didn't get the program working, it would be impossible. USB8X seems to mess with USB a little. I assume it places a hook or something.

Anyway, you will need the mini-A cable to something to get it to work. mini-A to female A for other devices.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Darl181 on January 25, 2011, 11:21:32 pm: Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but this (http://ourl.ca/7646/142328) might help. I wasn't able to find a mini-A adapter so I just changed a mini-B to mini-A.
And you do need the extra ram pages.

Spoiler For how to check revision letter:
Look at the back of the calc. There should be a serial number. The very last charactor should be a letter. That letter is your revision.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 26, 2011, 10:10:33 am: 1. http://epsstore.ti.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?section=10431&item=58972&JServSessionIdrootdlek22=a5lb0oh031.n6LzoN8M/AzOnMTOogTxpQOUtxCLbx0Ka0--
2. http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-a-female-to-mini-usb-5-pin-female-adapter-26780

This is prety much what I am doing (still being shipped)
Wish me luck.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on January 26, 2011, 10:58:54 am: my serial number ends with P-0409L
that is later than F. is it still worth the try?
i have also access to a F revision calculator, maybe there?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: JosJuice on January 26, 2011, 11:02:50 am: Quote from: ferox on January 26, 2011, 10:58:54 am
my serial number ends with P-0409L
that is later than F. is it still worth the try?
i have also access to a F revision calculator, maybe there?
I'd say it's worth the try. Some programs will fail completely if the extra pages aren't present, but I believe MSD8x might work to a certain extent if they're not there.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on January 26, 2011, 11:09:03 am: well, if I want to try I still have to wait, the cable i need is sold out right now, i should try again in a week or so...
anyway, does anyone have a F or later revision and uses MSD8X?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 26, 2011, 12:52:10 pm: Quote from: ferox on January 26, 2011, 10:58:54 am
my serial number ends with P-0409L
that is later than F. is it still worth the try?
i have also access to a F revision calculator, maybe there?
I think the 0409 part means it was made in April of 2009. Mine has 0909. I do know that mine has one extra RAM page, but that is all (to my knowledge, anyway). I have not actually tried MSD8x on this new calculator, but the only peripheral I can hook my calc up to would be my PSP (that's all I have a cord for). Also, I personally don't need that much memory yet :D I still have about 1.25 MB of memory that I haven't touched, yet (or to put it another way, I've used 1/6 of my memory, and I still have apps that I don't actually use).
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Darl181 on January 26, 2011, 02:35:12 pm: One of the adapters in this kit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Emerge-Tech-3-USB-2.0-Universal-Cable-Kit/12575355) is mini-b male to normal-a female. Using the trick to change a mini-b to mini-a, it's useful.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on January 26, 2011, 05:13:35 pm: Quote from: Darl181 on January 26, 2011, 02:35:12 pm
One of the adapters in this kit (http://www.walmart.com/ip/Emerge-Tech-3-USB-2.0-Universal-Cable-Kit/12575355) is mini-b male to normal-a female. Using the trick to change a mini-b to mini-a, it's useful.

is there a chance that my cable will be unuseable if the trick goes wrong. more specific: could it ruin my calc usb port? btw, i already have the cable ;)
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Darl181 on January 26, 2011, 05:16:00 pm: It is very unlikely. All you do is put a small piece of aluminum foil in the plug on the adapter.
http://ourl.ca/7646/142328
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on January 26, 2011, 05:18:23 pm: ok, then ill steal some aluminium foil somewhere (not sure we have it).
i'll post the outcome in a few days i think ;D
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: DrDnar on January 26, 2011, 07:38:07 pm: Protip: you don't need MSD8X to use the MSD driver in USB8X. You can use the BASIC interface (http://wikiti.brandonw.net/index.php?title=83Plus:Software:usb8x/BASIC_Interface) to read and write files, but you have to memorize the exact file names.

And yes, this means you don't need the extra RAM pages.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Darl181 on January 26, 2011, 08:06:26 pm: So it might be possible to make a probram for it, not a 16kb extensive-gui app...never thought of that.
I would probably use a program over an app any day.

Or it might be possible in Axe ;D

I think I just got an idea...
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: DrDnar on January 26, 2011, 08:48:33 pm: Quote from: Darl181 on January 26, 2011, 08:06:26 pm
So it might be possible to make a program for it, not a 16kb extensive-gui app...never thought of that.
Not quite. The BASIC interface doesn't have a file enumeration function. And I'm not sure the USB8X driver layer can be initialized from Axe. If it can't be done currently, it shouldn't be hard to add support for that functionality. IIRC, MSD8X uses the extra RAM pages for buffering, especially for the directory entry listing.

Edit: If you're wondering, the USB8X driver requires that you set aside 32 bytes of RAM for the resident driver handler routine (which uses self-modifying code). The routine to initialize that is about 40 to 50 bytes. The U_CALL macro itself is simple enough that you could inline every instance of it. Each driver also has its own memory requirements. For example, the MSD driver requires a 512 byte sector buffer, and a 254 byte internal buffer. All of these routines use pass-by-register for inputs, and many outputs.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 27, 2011, 04:43:53 pm: Quote from: ferox on January 25, 2011, 04:13:01 pm
I bought my calc in 2009...
that is pretty new, isn't it?
I got my 83+ in 2001, so yeah. O.O

But on a serious note the reason why MSD8x won't work well on calculators made after April 2007 is because their hardware changed and the 84+ series no longer have 128 KB of RAM, but rather 48. TI-Boy SE, RealSound, Emu8x and a few other programs may fail to run.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 27, 2011, 04:45:03 pm: Well, we will soon see on my calc :)
I got tire of waiting so i did the aluminum foil thing.

How can i format my flash drive to FAT16?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: jnesselr on January 27, 2011, 06:43:12 pm: Quote from: happybobjr on January 27, 2011, 04:45:03 pm
Well, we will soon see on my calc :)
I got tire of waiting so i did the aluminum foil thing.

How can i format my flash drive to FAT16?
That entirely depends on the OS, and is fairly googable (At least I found it on the first link for my mac). I don't think any OS has it officially deprecated, but most OSes won't allow you to do it with a gui.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Darl181 on January 27, 2011, 06:45:11 pm: if you're using windows, go to my computer, file/right click → format
FAT works.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: jnesselr on January 27, 2011, 06:54:00 pm: Quote from: Darl181 on January 27, 2011, 06:45:11 pm
if you're using windows, go to my computer, file/right click → format
FAT works.
FAT should be FAT 32, IIRC.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 27, 2011, 08:34:28 pm: Naa it appears that FAT is FAT16.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 27, 2011, 11:14:57 pm: /me makes a note of that
Cool, I was wondering what happened to that... is there a FAT8?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: calcdude84se on January 27, 2011, 11:34:03 pm: Nope, no such thing as FAT8 ;D
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: DrDnar on January 27, 2011, 11:35:49 pm: There's a FAT12, though. Nobody likes to write FAT12 code.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 27, 2011, 11:40:15 pm: Aww... what does that mean, anyway? the FATxx (what does the xx mean?)
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on January 28, 2011, 03:22:27 am: Quote from: Xeda112358 on January 27, 2011, 11:40:15 pm
Aww... what does that mean, anyway? the FATxx (what does the xx mean?)

long live wikipedia :D
here is a link since i also dont really know for myself :P

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_Allocation_Table
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 28, 2011, 07:56:32 am: well i just lost my 68 MB flash drive (broke)
So no testing flashdrives. :banghead:
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on January 28, 2011, 01:27:01 pm: 68MB? that should be already FAT16 i think...
anyway, it did seem to work with my 2GB (max space)
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Darl181 on January 28, 2011, 01:28:58 pm: I had a 2gig myself, but I lost it over the winter break :(
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: FloppusMaximus on January 28, 2011, 11:22:24 pm: The number in FAT12/FAT16/FAT32 is the number of bits per entry in the file allocation table, so it's the logarithm of the maximum number of clusters. As a result, FAT16 can't be used for partitions larger than 2 GB; whether it's worth using FAT32 on smaller partitions depends on what type of files you have, but usually FAT16 will be more efficient.

Nobody uses FAT12 anymore except on floppy disks (and I guess hardly anybody uses those anymore.) But doesn't Windows still use FAT16 by default on small partitions?

Maybe it would be useful for somebody to write a partitioning-and/or-formatting tool for the 84+ itself, since small USB disks are getting hard to find.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: jnesselr on January 29, 2011, 09:33:28 am: Can you give me a link to the full format of the FAT disks. I've been trying to find one, and can't seem to.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: FloppusMaximus on January 29, 2011, 03:21:49 pm: Wikipedia actually has a reasonably complete description (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File_Allocation_Table#Design) of the filesystem data structures. Is that sufficient?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: SirCmpwn on January 29, 2011, 03:44:51 pm: For the record, my calculator has missing pages and runs msd8x, with a few graphical glitches, but usable all the same.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: jnesselr on January 29, 2011, 06:02:42 pm: Quote from: FloppusMaximus on January 29, 2011, 03:21:49 pm
Wikipedia actually has a reasonably complete description (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/File_Allocation_Table#Design) of the filesystem data structures. Is that sufficient?
Yes, but I never liked wikipedia for full information like that. Is there a utility that I can look at the structure of devices I already have?

EDIT: I know about HxD, but something for mac/linux would be preferable.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: FloppusMaximus on January 29, 2011, 11:28:40 pm: dd and od or hd, perhaps? I don't know about any newfangled GUI tools.

(E.g., to show the contents of your MBR in hex: dd if=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 | hd)
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Xeda112358 on January 29, 2011, 11:37:42 pm: Quote from: SirCmpwn on January 29, 2011, 03:44:51 pm
For the record, my calculator has missing pages and runs msd8x, with a few graphical glitches, but usable all the same.
Hmm, maybe I can look into USB8x again, then. I never got it to work, but it would be cool if I could use it.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on January 30, 2011, 07:30:02 pm: Quote from: Xeda112358 on January 29, 2011, 11:37:42 pm
Quote from: SirCmpwn on January 29, 2011, 03:44:51 pm
For the record, my calculator has missing pages and runs msd8x, with a few graphical glitches, but usable all the same.
Hmm, maybe I can look into USB8x again, then. I never got it to work, but it would be cool if I could use it.

mine won't work at all with it
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on February 02, 2011, 06:02:36 am: today i made the calc-pc cable an a port, but now i lost my usb stick :(
as soon as i find it, i will post if it works or not with 2.55MP
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Happybobjr on February 02, 2011, 09:14:37 am: Wait, so if i go down to a lower os, it may work?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ferox on February 02, 2011, 11:18:05 am: you can try i suppose...
new os'es use more free RAM spaces, i believe (that's what the whole topic was about ;))
but i still didn't find my usb stick :(
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: ikemike on March 15, 2011, 11:02:48 pm: Does anybody here know why msd8x doesn't support .8xk files? Does it have something do with signing? Or has it just not been programmed because it is too difficult?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: calcdude84se on March 15, 2011, 11:03:24 pm: Probably the difficulty part. Signing shouldn't be a problem AFAICT.
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Darl181 on March 15, 2011, 11:08:59 pm: It will run and send single-page apps, but it doesn't have the OS validate them so they spontaneously delete after 16 runs :(
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: calcdude84se on March 15, 2011, 11:13:35 pm: My meaningless comment came from a misunderstanding about how it worked (I never used it :P)
You may now ignore it.
Darl, so it sounds like it works. Ikemike, could you elaborate?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: Darl181 on March 15, 2011, 11:14:54 pm: It isn't compatible with multiple-page apps (ie Axe) if that's what he's saying.

Spoiler For offtopic:
btw what does AFAICT stand for?
Title: Re: msd8x won't work
Post by: willrandship on March 15, 2011, 11:16:23 pm: @ferox the MP oses use 1 more page, but that shouldn't (I said shouldn't! don't take my word for it :P) really be the issue, since asm programs would still use it in exactly the same way.