Post by: graywolf on May 31, 2007, 11:23:00 am
I just got home from school and my calculator is missing! :grr:
:flame:
I am so angry and worried. I think it might be stolen because I'm pretty sure I didn't leave it in any classroom. I hope the latter is true because I had lots of stuff on it that I cannot replace. :(
Post by: dinhotheone on May 31, 2007, 11:45:00 am
Post by: graywolf on May 31, 2007, 11:51:00 am
Post by: spengo on May 31, 2007, 12:29:00 pm
Post by: Speler on May 31, 2007, 03:08:00 pm
Post by: Spellshaper on June 01, 2007, 03:50:00 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 01, 2007, 08:02:00 am
Post by: graywolf on June 01, 2007, 10:54:00 am
And my parents refuse to buy me a new one, but maybe that will change later.
EDIT: If I do get a calculator, I think I will get a HP50g.
Post by: Speler on June 02, 2007, 04:03:00 am
Post by: spengo on June 02, 2007, 05:18:00 am
Post by: Delnar_Ersike on June 02, 2007, 06:45:00 am
1) Battery life is 2 months
2) It's a tad bit too expensive
3) Where will you find an HP calculator community?
Post by: graywolf on June 03, 2007, 08:21:00 am
| QUOTE |
| HP... bring him to the iron maidon!!! |
Lol, don't hate.
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| Actually, that HP 50g is pretty kickass. Expensive, yes, but kickass nonetheless. |
Thanks. It's not too expensive (like $200 or something like that).
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| 1) Battery life is 2 months |
Yes, it is short, but I will be using rechargables so it won't be too much of a problem. Plus, I will only use it for math. (I won't game on it because I can't imagine gaming without an 89 - especially the higher resolution and screen size.)
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| 2) It's a tad bit too expensive |
$150 (HP) compared to $140 (89) isn't too much of a price gap ;)
. I will also be buying an SD card for the calculator so another $5-$20 (probably $10) won't hurt too much (I still have to get parental approval :rolleyes:
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| 3) Where will you find an HP calculator community? |
I guess this is a major problem. Let's see, nobody helped me learn how to use my 83 (I didn't even know about calculator communities back then :oops:
). Nobody taught me how to use my 89 (everything I learned was through experimentation; I knew about online communities, but most people had a 83 anyways). And nobody will teach me how to use a HP 50g, but will it really make a difference? Not really. I will pick it up during this summer. Since I will only be using it for math, I won't need much help since a lot of the math functions are already built in (unlike an 89 where I would have to download stuff). HP lacks a large community but there is http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.hp48/topics though I don't see myself joing it in the near future.So will I be here after this? I'm not even sure. I'm seriously considering an HP 50g unless someone can convince me otherwise.
Post by: Delnar_Ersike on June 03, 2007, 08:30:00 am
The 89 Titanium is also easier to program than the HP 50g and has 700 kB more Flash memory. Oh yeah, not to mention the funky screen resolution, which is 131x80 (why 131?)
More info http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1306088.
Post by: spengo on June 03, 2007, 08:34:00 am
EDIT: oh I see you have it as $150 there too. I didn't read far enough lolz, only saw your $200 price.
Post by: Speler on June 03, 2007, 08:53:00 am
Post by: graywolf on June 04, 2007, 12:23:00 pm
| QUOTE |
| When I mean a community, I mean a programming community. |
HP calculators have a community, but it's just not as large as the TI community. In fact, I program in BASIC, but don't distribute my programs because no one needs them. This is even more so for HP calculators because of the advanced programming features (built-in support for four programming languages, including compilers and debuggers for
assembly, SysRPL, HPBasic and UserRPL). HP also has support for C, but no where near as good as TIGCC. However, I am buying this mostly for it's math functions.
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| I have also seen one of my friends use one of them before, and even if it does have a 75mhz processor, it graphs slower than the 89 Titanium AND it doesn't have as many graphing/plotting functions (Box-and-Whisker, Scatter, etc.). |
The TI-89 graphs slower than an 83 because of its Discontinuity Detection. This can be remedied by increasing xres. I don't know if the HP such options. Graphing, to me personally, is a novelty on CAS calculator. In fact, I never graphed anything on my 89 unless my teacher specifically told the class to.
The HP does have Scatter Plot AND more graphing options (plotting functions, polar plots, parametric plots, differential equation plots, conic plots, truth plots, histograms, bar charts, scatter charts, slopefield charts, fast 3D charts, wireframe plots, Ps-contour plots, Y-slice plots, gridmap plots, and Pr-surface plots) that TI lacks. The only options it lacks are Box-and-whisker and Sequence plots. Box-and-whisker downloads are available, but I'm nbot sure about sequence plots since I never use them and probably never will.
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| I also looked up the button layout and it is...not so user-friendly, to put it in a nice way (what the hell do the arrows mean?!): |
Yes, it doesn't look user-friendly, but I have all summer to learn. The arrows are like Shift and Diamond on a 89.
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| The 89 Titanium is also easier to program than the HP 50g and has 700 kB more Flash memory. |
TI-BASIC is easy to learn, but HP's support for various programming styles (especially on-calc) is ver good. Yes, the 89 has more memory, but the HP has a SD card slot for up to 2GB (which is a lot for calculators). I have yet to see usb68k.
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| Graywolf, it was a reference to an old movie... a bad one really (reference, movie was great)... |
Lol, I know, I was just playing with you.
Post by: spengo on June 04, 2007, 01:02:00 pm
It has nothing to do with their ability to run C... Anyways, I am quite happy with my 89 titanium, but if I had to buy a new calc, I would probably get an HP 'cause it has MOAR MATHS POWAZ.
Post by: graywolf on June 04, 2007, 01:52:00 pm
Post by: bfr on June 04, 2007, 02:22:00 pm
Most of these, especially the various types of 3-D graphs, are available through different settings once a "main" mode has been selected.
There are conics graphing programs for the TI-89/Titanium, such as http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/208/20869.html and http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/133/13358.html. :)
(Not that graphing conics is usually hard anyway ;))Your HP 50g is still pretty good, but I like to defend TI.
Post by: graywolf on June 05, 2007, 12:57:00 pm
| QUOTE |
| Most of these, especially the various types of 3-D graphs, are available through different settings once a "main" mode has been selected. |
I know, I was just commenting to a previous post.
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| There are conics graphing programs for the TI-89/Titanium, such as this and this. |
Yes, the TI has more programs backing it up. But becuase this is not built-in it is a pain for me because my TI-Connect didn't work and I was too late in switching to TILP so I had to ask my friend to download stuff for me every time. :(
It's not like conic graphing is a really big thing for me anyways. ;)QuoteBegin
| QUOTE |
| Your HP 50g is still pretty good, but I like to defend TI. |
I did that, too. :)
But now after researching further, I am starting to get the picture that an HP calculator is the calculator for me. Here's my reasoning:
- Different types of entry: Algebraic (traditional TI), RPN (seems complicated but I heard it is good/efficient; not sure if I will be able to use it), Textbook (similar to EQW, but on an HP it works with the OS which even the TI Flash version couldn't do; I'm not sure how often I will use it, but it is a nice feature). Overall, the HP wins here.
- Graphing: The HP has more graphing options although it lacks Box-and-Whisker. This is not too important to me so it is not crucial to have every type of graph which it defintely doesn't have. Both TI and HP are equal.
Now onto things that really matter to me:
- CAS: The HP CAS appears to be more powerful than the TI. This is due to the Erable CAS vs. Derive. More information http://technicalc.org/tifaq/ti89vshp49.pdf. I know that article is old, but I remember testing my TI-89 Titanium and it still couldn't do some of the limits/integrals, etc. That is the type of math I will encounter in my multi-variable class next year. Looks like HP wins.
- Simplification: The TI has auto-simplification which is good. The HP also has this, but it has the option to turn it on/off (I don't think I would ever turn it off, but you never know...). The TI also simplifies trigonometric expressions, but the HP's versitility overcomes TI. For example, it's trigonometric expansion/collection is probably equal to TI's, but it can display answers only in terms of sine/cosine/etc. which is actually useful because many classes say: decompose sin(x)^2*cos^(3x) into linear multiples of cosine. The only way a TI accomplishes this is by running expand/collect and rerunning the command multiple times (using intermediate results) in hope of the answer. The HP doesn't support csc, sec, cot, but the TI doesn't support them in it's simplification either unless you download Tsimplfy. Looks like HP and TI are equal.
- Catlog: TI provides a Catlog of commands with syntax and support for Flash and user commands. The HP provides support for built-in commands and user commands (no Flash to my knowledge, I'm not even sure if HPs have Flash programs). But the HP also provides a brief explanation of the command and an example. TI commands are generally intuitive for me, but I'm not sure about some people. Since there are a lot of HP commands, this is a plus for HP. Looks like HP wins here.
- Algebra: There isn't much to say here. The TI is usually fast, but it sometimes fails. The HP isn't slow, but it isn't as fast as the TI. However, it doesn't fail as ofen (if ever; don't take it literally). In the end, HP's superior CAS wins.
- Calculus: Derive uses a table to calculate integrals and derivatives. This generally results in faster answers by the TI because the HP calculates input every time. However, complicated functions confuse the TI and it sometimes fails while the HP calculates. The TI has only one series command: Taylor which doesn't expand series perfectly. The HP has more versatile tools. The HP also supports additional advanced functions for computation including Laplace, Fourier, Hermite, etc. The only come backs to this that I know of are: Bhuvanesh Bhatt's MathTools and Calculus Made Easy (CME). MathTools is extensive, but not bult-in. And the strength of the program is proportional to the strength of the CAS. CME is also extensive, but doesn't have many advanced calculus tools. Thus, the HP has a clear victory, but it is a tie considering programs available for the TI.
- Number Theory: The HP has more features, again, than TI. MathTools compensates for this. So, HP wins by default, but MathTools makes it a tie.
- Symbolic: TI supports basic symbolic calculations with very good speeds. The HP also has similar support. The HP supports larger symbolic calculations with more ease and has support for symbolic eingvectors/values which the TI lacks. Looks like the HP wins here.
- Complex: The TI and HP evaluate complex numbers equally well. However, when it comes to applications of complex numbers (as in integration), the HP has clear victory.
- Step-by-step: The HP supports step-by-step help. I?m not sure how useful this would be for me, personally, but I?m sure others might appreciate this. The only similar option for TI is Symbolic Math (which doesn?t even come close if you really think about it). CME also has step-by-step work for integration and differentiation, but the HP?s wide support is better. So the HP wins here.
- Finance: I don?t know much about this except that both calculators have some sort of program built-in.
- Statistics: The HP has basic statistics features, but TI?s use of calculation limits and wide support beats the HP?s Statistics program. However, the HP has various programs to remedy this. So it looks like a tie.
This is all I can think of at this moment and I have to do my homework anyways. :)
EDIT: I've been getting used to RPN on my friend's scientific and I like it. :)
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on August 06, 2007, 10:53:00 am
It would be cool if he returned to wow us with HP programs ^^ we hardly get HP users here x.x. Only TrN on IRC use HP
Post by: Harrierfalcon on August 06, 2007, 03:25:00 pm
Well, after sticking a couple of red speed stripes on my cover, and noticing that it spread pink residue almost everywhere, I was forced to clean it off with acetone (and there is still some O_O
). But, now that the acetone has slightly eaten away at it and there is still pink, it's almost instantly recognizable--whether that's because of the pink or the roughened texture, I don't know.