Omnimaga
Calculator Community => TI Calculators => General Calculator Help => Topic started by: yunhua98 on November 09, 2010, 04:37:33 pm
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A while ago, I decided to play Desolate again. For some reason, it said ERR: MEMORY, so I cleared my RAM, once again, I could not run the program. Then I checked my RAM. It read 21184, that was the maximum amount of RAM I've ever had afterward.
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hmm...
I've never heard of that happening before. I wonder what did that?
Maybe you have something hidden that you can't get rid of, or did some part of the OS get ruined?
maybe you should reload the OS?
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I am not familiar with the game. Is it an APP or Assembly program? Does it use a shell of any kind?
Do you have the RAM loss after clearing your RAM?
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It's a assembly program, I think it's for mirageOS.
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Hmm, how large is the program? Around 3000 bytes perhaps?
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much larger, I'd say <16K to be safe.
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@ASHBAD: its not the OS, because this happened before I installed brandonW's patched version of 2.53MP, and it was still like that afterward.
@Xeda: Its a program that takes up ~22000 bytes, its a awesome greyscale RPG/Puzzle game by tr1p1ea. ;)
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Oh, wow. Hmm, does it use any external variables? And how old is this program? If it is older, then I will be less skeptical that it is an unknown bug in the program. I am looking up the program now.
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@Xeda: Its a program that takes up ~22000 bytes, its a awesome greyscale RPG/Puzzle game by tr1p1ea. ;)
Wow, wait up. How large exactly? I am thinking that all of the memory is being removed except the memory used for the actual program...
Dang, double posted. Sorry about that.
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Oh, wow. Hmm, does it use any external variables? And how old is this program? If it is older, then I will be less skeptical that it is an unknown bug in the program. I am looking up the program now.
It's about 5-6 years old methinks. It's an old classic some would say :D
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I doubt the probklem is caused by Desolate, because its been kept archived. I've only played it on my BE calc. basically, I can't unarchive it.
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I have known MirageOS to be pretty buggy before, but I am not sure what is going on. I am still checking out the program. Which shell are you using, by the way?
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CalcUtil or MOS.
I stopped using CalcUtil for a month or so though. ;)
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Calcutil has some bugs as well. You are using MirageOS when this happens though?
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it always happenes, I never have more that 21184 bytes RAM.
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O.o if it stays like that after clear the only possible explanation I could think of is that you have A LOT of programs and appvars on your calc or something... names of programs/appvars take up a small amount of memory, even if they're in archive.
Hidden MOS/DCS programs take up even more space. For me, after RAM clear I only have ~22900 free because of all of my progs/appvars (I'd say I easily have >100 combined :P)
oh and also, I think you can't run MOS programs from archive if you don't have enough free RAM to house it.
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ooh, thanks, that explains it, I have >9000 programs. :P
last time I counted, (2 month ago) I had 493 programs, and all I've done is get more. :P
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493! That's the number of Pokémon there are!
Nice...
Lots o' program was all...
But at least I know about this game... :D
Cookies!!!!!
(>^_^)>O
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so, just a lot of programs then ;)
good to see you figured it out :P
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493! That's the number of Pokémon there are!
Actually, there are 649 Pokémon.
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493! That's the number of Pokémon there are!
Actually, there are 649 Pokémon.
WHAT??? I never heard of this! The site shows 493 in their Pokédex...
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It's cuz of Pokemon Black and White.
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Hmm... going to Serebii... Server not found?? WHY!!!
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Try Bulbapedia. ;)
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Squidgetx is completely right except for this line:
Hidden MOS/DCS programs take up even more space.
Actually, they take the same amount of space weather they are hidden or not. :)
Thanks for the answer, squidgetx! ;D
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Yeah the issue is that archived files also take some RAM in the VAT. This is why with many, you cannot play Gemini or Castlevania. I was scared that your calc got bricked or something at first. Back in the days I remember people trying to install Reuben Quest but after a fresh mem reset they only had 22 KB of free RAM on their 84+SE, which was weird.
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ooh, thanks, that explains it, I have >9000 programs. :P
last time I counted, (2 month ago) I had 493 programs, and all I've done is get more. :P
Ever tried grouping them? O.o They take a lot less RAM for VAT space than a bunch of individual programs.
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I would create two groups copy , though. Group corruptions happens, unfortunately.
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Hm, I cant play something like The Verdante Forest , 'cause i dont have enough RAM for having 1 level unarchived. its probably an 84+SE game ???
btw my ram is ~23000 bytes if I clear it.
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You can pretty much have only the level unarchived. That is a really good game, too.
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but I cant play it 'cause I have too less RAM to run TVF in it :/
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Hidden MOS/DCS programs take up even more space.
Actually, they take the same amount of space weather they are hidden or not. :)
O.o really? I never knew that; it seemed that when I would unhide things RAM would free up....I guess I was wrong there. Thanks for pointing that out :)
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It's still in normal RAM, and that's why RAM clears clear hidden prgms.
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some of my programs are hidden, and they never get cleared after RAM clears. ???
I unhid them but I dson't gain more RAM, as expected. ;)
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Weird, can you get a screenie? RAM clears always delete hidden prgms for me. Unless they're archived, of course. Maybe you archived them before hiding?
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Yes, they're archived. :)
If you archived them before hiding them, bad things can happen on the next Garbage Collect (i.e. Ram Clear). Please Hide then archive to retain RAM after your next Garbage Collection. ;D
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THis happens with Mirage, right?
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THis happens with Mirage, right?
Yup, basically any program that lets you hide things. Well, except for this little know never used (by anyone) shell: http://ourl.ca/3809/69361
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Wow I totally forgot about that. It was kinda interesting. I guess I kinda forgot since Eeems had a project called Oasis a while ago too.
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I'm not sure what you think the problem here is. The TIOS keeps a list of all programs---the VAT---in RAM. Each program in the archive still takes at least 7 bytes of RAM just for the OS to keep track of its existence*. The same applies for lists, appvars---everything except Applications. If you have a lot of programs, you'll have less free RAM.
This is a bit of a simplification. I believe lack of a VAT entry won't cause an item to be lost from a garbage collect cycle, but you won't be able to access it in anyway. If you hold down a certain button while rebooting, the OS will skip enumeration of the archive, and you'll have the full 24 K of free RAM. And no programs.
Edit: Whoops. Apparently I didn't notice that there's a page 2 here.
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If you hold down a certain button while rebooting, the OS will skip enumeration of the archive, and you'll have the full 24 K of free RAM. And no programs.
CLEAR, to be exact. You hold it while putting back a battery, I believe, or when pressing ON. Also I think normally when you do a regular RAM clear afterward it shows the programs again.
Edit: Whoops. Apparently I didn't notice that there's a page 2 here.
And 3 ;D
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If you hold down a certain button while rebooting, the OS will skip enumeration of the archive, and you'll have the full 24 K of free RAM. And no programs.
CLEAR, to be exact. You hold it while putting back a battery, I believe, or when pressing ON. Also I think normally when you do a regular RAM clear afterward it shows the programs again.
What exactly does holding down CLEAR when turning it on do? It doesn't seem to do anything (no message, unlike holding down DEL). And TI's guidebooks have nothing on it (not that they have anything else that's important :P).
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It only does anything when you turn the calculator on after a reset. And I'd guess it isn't documented anywhere because TI never anticipated people would ever need to use it - I think the main reason it exists is to allow you to boot the OS and reset the archive if it ever gets seriously corrupted.
Normally, for every archived variable, the OS keeps a VAT entry in RAM - i.e., the variable's name, type, and the address where it's stored in Flash. These entries are used so that the OS, and other programs, can easily locate the variable. Like DrDnar said, holding CLEAR when you first turn the calculator on stops the OS from scanning the archive and building these VAT entries; as a result, all your archived variables will be "hidden."
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Oh I believe I saw that key combination mentionned in the TI-83+ guidebook. Not much info was given, IIRC, though. Let me check...
EDIT: Here we go :P (in case TI removed that info from the online manual. We never know with them. And my manual is starting to show its age) I used ON+CLEAR to get myself out of some weird crash that caused the calc to turn OFF instead of RAM clearing. Doing a RAM clear after the CLEAR trick made the calc turn OFF and resetting arc vars froze the calc. I lost an entire project due to that (Illusiat 2002). Nonetheless, the trick can be handy. I wish it worked on the TI-Nspire...
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Interesting. So it is documented, in a way.
I'm not sure, but I think I've seen situations where some part of the archive gets so broken that neither resetting "Vars" nor "Apps" will work, and the only way to recover is to reset "Both" or "All Memory". I've never had "All Memory" fail to work, but if it does, there's always the option of a boot mode self test, which resets everything except the certificate, or you could try flashing PongOS and erasing everything by hand.
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Sadly, the newer calcs appear to no longer come with that manual. If I remember, now they distribute a thiner one, which doesn't explain all info. I heard some people bought a brand new factory-sealed 83+ and it missed the huge manual that used to come with it.
In my case, I think the broken archive was caused by MirageOS 1.1. I disabled sorting because it took too long (about 40 minutes to sort 50 programs), but it somehow messed up and did something bad preventing a regular RAM reset from working. It was a 79 KB large BASIC RPG I was working on, which I lost completly.