Omnimaga
Calculator Community => TI Calculators => General Calculator Help => Topic started by: jsj795 on December 01, 2009, 01:17:24 pm
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I am thinking of buying TI 89, but found out that there are 4 versions of TI 89.
TI 89 and TI 89 titanium, and TI 89 has HW1 & HW2
TI 89 Titanium has HW3 & HW4
I was wondering which one is the best, in terms of coding/games available, and compatible.
It seems like some TI 89T is not compatible with assembly games, and also there is the patch and stuff, but I would like to know for sure before i go out and buy one ^^
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I got a 89T and generally all games runs fine with HW3Patch. Idk if there's a HW4patch, though. I don't recommend an old TI-89 HW1 because almost nothing runs on it, despite grayscale being better quality.
I also hope you don't quit TLM 83+ O.O
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I don't think he will quit programing on 83+s, but he just wants another calc. I'm that way. I asked for an 86 for Christmas. ;D
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Yeah. and I don't think Im gonna get it in at least a month
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Also I got a 89T and did not like to program much on it to be honest. I only really use it to play games lol
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I agree with DJ here. My friend let me borrow his 89 to try and make a game on it. Even though I succeeded, I didn't like the way it worked. Call me old fashioned but I prefer the 83/84+
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really? I thought it would be awesome, with its ability to use pop-up things and BASIC sprite drawings and such. And there are pretty good BASIC games at ti-calc. so i was like, OMG i so want that! Anyway, even if i might not program on it, i still want the calculator, for the gaming experience and math
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I swapped my 84+ SE for an 89t at the beginning of this year and i love it. the CAS is a really nice feature. I would have to agree that the BASIC programing isn't as good as it was on the 84. however if you are interested in trying C, you could check out tigcc. there is also an oncalc compiler available and it works well in my opinion, though it takes a long time to write anything. I think its a great calculator, definitely improved my math grade.
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I think there are barely anymore BASIC programmers for the 68k now too. Most people jumps straight to 68k C. Actually, BASIC on the 89 is better structured than on 83+, but since it's harder and not much faster, people don't find it worth learning when there's something just slightly harder but much more faster.
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Now when you say C, does that include C++?
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as far as i know it only supports C, no C++ at this point
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Yeah, only C. It also got something called ETP Studio and GFA BASIC, two BASIC-like language, but both's doc is only in french and I think they are not finished. The TI-89 also got a Gameboy emulator, altough unlike TI-Boy SE, I think it lacks sound.
Another calc that was great was the TI-86, but the thing I hated was the lack of Flash ROM :(
OH and btw welcome here TIzona :)
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Actually, BASIC on the 89 is better structured than on 83+, but since it's harder and not much faster, people don't find it worth learning when there's something just slightly harder but much more faster.
I thought the hardware was faster in TI 89 than TI 84. Well, and i did try to learn C++ but failed :P i always fail trying to learn computer language.
I want to take computer programming in college tho as a minor
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Well 89 basic has built in sprite manipulation (pictures), user defined variables, and more functions in general :P I think its still the same-ish speed though. I've seen some pretty impressive 89 basic games on the archives, but nothing compared to what they can do in asm.
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In my opinion, I found that 89 basic isn't harder than 83 basic, it's different.
If you've had an 83 for five years and then move up to the 89 thinking that you can program it just like an 83, you're going to run into issues. I know I did moving from the 85 to 92.
Top 10 Big mistakes that 83/86 -> 89/92 users make:
1 ) use output. Don't. Pxltext does the same thing with the same coordinates and you can show pictures to boot.
2 ) Never check dialogs with OK variable. OK tells the program if you canceled the dialog box or not. half of the games in the ticalc.org 89 basic archive I can crash simply by hitting esc at a dialog box.
3 ) bounds check using if statements. You can do it in one line using min( and max(
4 ) Use Labels. you're better off not using them, of course that's true with any language 83 or otherwise
5 ) Dump everything into one program. 89's hate this. split up repetitive code and code you only use once into subprograms.
6 ) Never use local variables. if it's a simple variable that's only used for that one subroutine, you should local it so it doesn't eat valuable variable space.
7 ) never use matrices or use them for only numbers. They can also store strings directly unlike 83/86 and you can name them like variables.
8 ) avoid pictures. you can have as many as your want, you can put them anywhere on the screen and size them. so why not use them as sprites?
9 ) never set mode or graph settings. One wrong setting will crash your program and you can never count on one calc's setting to be the same as yours.
10 ) never use indirection. #( is easily the most powerful command on the 89. Not using it to your advantage is asking for pain.
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9) would be also true on the 83+. I can't count anymore how many 82/83+ programs I tried that forgets to turn axises off on startup. It's annoying.
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Yeah. it's still true with the 83/86, but there's a lot more settings on the 89 that when changed, will cause numbers to display wrong, disable draw functions, or just really be a nuisance with your program layout.
Most of the 92 programs get axes off, but forget things like setting the graph to something other than 3D or disabling any graphs defined. I think most of the ff7 patches dealt with these settings.
It's got to the point that the Landel engine is going to have 2 programs that only deal with loading and restoring graph/mode settings when the game is run. I figured I can't miss one if I change them all to default settings, then set them back when you close the program. The only issue I see with this is it might force me to require AMS 2.0 or higher to handle multiple languages, but since all 89's support higher than AMS 2.0, that shouldn't be a problem.
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9) would be also true on the 83+. I can't count anymore how many 82/83+ programs I tried that forgets to turn axises off on startup. It's annoying.
It's also incredible the number of programs that don't turn the Stat Plots off. I normally have to add that in myself.
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One thing I dislike about 68k BASIC too, altough this can be remedied to by using ASM libraries, is how you can't get rid of the TI-89 menu bar at the top and the status bar at the bottom (where it says RAD AUTO and battery status, for example)
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Yea, I agree completely. Really limits the benefit of the higher resolution. >_<
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158x76 screen size should be enough for anybody. :)
In the older Ti-92 AMS's, there was a bug that would hide the toolbar, but if I remember correctly, you couldn't get it back without a calc reset.
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Nah, I want it all!(although Kevin said you can utilize it all with an ASM lib anyway) That, and 158x76 isn't divisible by standard 8x8 12x12 or 16x16 sprites. 160x100 is better as the horizontal is divisible by those(except 12) even though the vertical isn't. By the way, is that gif in your sig a preview of your upcoming game? I'm liking the Slayers inspired graphics.
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I don't mind smaller resolution, I just kinda hate when I make a game HUD/gui/layout to be stuck with that default bar. As for the TI-92, I had this glitch happen when triggering a self-test once, altough I did not run the self test, just went on its main screen
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158x76 isn't divisible by standard 8x8 12x12 or 16x16 sprites.
while that's true, it's never been that serious of a problem. I know Nene's adventure used sprites, although I tend to avoid tilemaps on the 89 and stick with full screen pictures since there's enough memory to go around, especially on the titanium. You'll probably hit the 2400 variable limit before you fill the archive on one of those.
If you want box like sprites, the Voyage 200 is probably the way to go, its got a 238x102 screen and 17x17 tiles will work just fine there. I'd get one if I didn't already have a Ti-92. That, and if other people actually had them.
By the way, is that gif in your sig a preview of your upcoming game? I'm liking the Slayers inspired graphics.
That's was one of the animation cutscenes for the original Legend of Landel project. Hiryu did a great job making up that animation, and he made that over 7 years ago. He's redrawing a lot of those graphics since his drawing style has gotten better over the years, so the actual game should have even better ones.
As for Slayers, A lot of Legend of Landel is influenced by that anime. Even the engine it uses was going to be used to make a Slayers game once FF7DE fell through, but the project was scrapped for Punisher X-Treme, then PunXtreme got Canned for LoL. There's also the Slayers RPG for the 92 that Hiryu Made.
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1 ) use output. Don't. Pxltext does the same thing with the same coordinates and you can show pictures to boot.
I don't see anything wrong with using Output if you only need to display text. This way you don't have to mess with graphing modes, saving/restoring GDBs, etc. I've only used Pxltext and graphics commands when actually using graphics.
You give some good pointers, though.
I kind of like the 68k BASIC better since it seems easier to me (I like being able to indent code and give variables descriptive names and so forth) and can do a lot of things that I wished I had back in my 82/85/86 BASIC days. It's not perfect, though, and I have lots of gripes about it after working with it for many years. And like others have said, it sucks that you can't use the whole screen. If the menus were optional like on the 86, the effective screen resolution would have been even better and you could eliminate the clutter of the inactive menu bar which might confuse users who are new to the calculator when they run your program.
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I don't see anything wrong with using Output if you only need to display text. This way you don't have to mess with graphing modes, saving/restoring GDBs, etc. I've only used Pxltext and graphics commands when actually using graphics.
Most of what I was talking about was specific to gaming. if it's all text based then output is fine, but I wouldn't use it for any kind of gaming when you got advanced grahpics to play with.
I kind of like the 68k BASIC better since it seems easier to me (I like being able to indent code and give variables descriptive names and so forth) and can do a lot of things that I wished I had back in my 82/85/86 BASIC days. It's not perfect, though, and I have lots of gripes about it after working with it for many years. And like others have said, it sucks that you can't use the whole screen. If the menus were optional like on the 86, the effective screen resolution would have been even better and you could eliminate the clutter of the inactive menu bar which might confuse users who are new to the calculator when they run your program.
About the only gripe I've had when it comes to the 89/92 is that you can't use all three built in fonts for text output, Especially on the 89 and it's smaller screen. Frankly that would solve a lot of screen issues for me almost immediately.
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So I am thinking of buying the HW4, since there seems to be patches for me to be able to play games, and have fastest processor (or so TI-Edu claim) and biggest memory ^^
How much is it tho, in staples and such? I want the new one, with the CD and instruction manual, not one of those used ones in ebay o.o
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Over here in Canada:
TI-83+: $128
TI-84+: $147
TI-84+SE: $177
TI-Nspire: $185
TI-89T: $187
When school year begins, sometimes the TI-83+ is only like $90 and the TI-84+ $128, though. Also, back in 2008, we could get the TI-Nspire for like $160 then eventually $170 until it rose back to $185
I got some calcs, like my Nspire, on Ebay, though.
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I don't know if they package them with instruction manuals anymore, If I remember right, when my brother got his ti-84+SE 2-3 years ago it didn't come with one. It shouldn't be that big of a deal though. They should all be available for Texas Instruments website in pdf format. Personally I prefer my Old TI-89. Grayscale looks the best on the old one. =) It does have less memory though. As far as price goes I'm not sure. I haven't priced them in a while, but they were around 150 USD last time I checked.
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Now they put smaller instructions manuals with new calcs. You need to either use a TI CD or go on their site to access the full one. I think the TI-83+ still comes with a large manual, though, but I could be wrong.
That said, if you checked another topic by me on the forums, the TI-84+ manual, while being much smaller than the 83+ one, is far less bad than the TI-83+SE one
As for 84+ it's best to get an old one as much as possible, so TI-Boy SE, RealSound, Omnicalc( RestoreMem and Emu8x works on them. You have to get one where the serial number at the back of the calc ends with the letter G or lower, because there was a RAM chip hardware change afterward
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yeah... Well, in that case, i might just as well get the calc cheap online.
Thanks guys for all the help!
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Question: Can you install newer OSes like in the 2.xx range on HW1 calcs? I am wondering, because if you can, I do not suggest getting a HW1 calc. If you're planning to only play ASM/C games on your calc, the early OSes (in the 1.xx range) can run NOTHING. I tried dozens of ASM/C games and all would give errors
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I have no idea, but I'm planning to buy TI-89T HW4 or if i can't then HW3
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Mine is Hardware Version 1.00 running OS Version 2.09. The most recent game I put on there was Lachprog's Metroid. The only time I had trouble running a game was Arroneus the greats Doom I think. I don't remember. It was one of his First person games.
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mine's an HW1 too. also running 2.09. That the highest AMS HW1 and HW2 will go.
Only big difference is that there's less flash to work with on the HW1. HW2 basically doubled the flash and did some different hardware tweaks particularly with the display routines.
the 89Ti HW3 and HW4; I don't know what was changed there. I know both of them tripled the flash from the HW2.
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That's good that HW1 can use OS 2.09 at least.