Omnimaga

Calculator Community => TI Calculators => General Calculator Help => Topic started by: Runer112 on October 06, 2010, 10:02:27 pm

Title: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on October 06, 2010, 10:02:27 pm
A bunch of people have been pestering me about the dysfunctionality of an old sprite editor of mine, so I'm working on it again. I plan to support masked 3-color (black, gray, and white) grayscale sprites, and I want the user to be able to see transparency. To do this I'm going to display the sprite in 4-color grayscale, with transparent being represented as one shade of gray and actual gray being the other shade. The question is, which method looks better: transparency being represented as light gray (left) or dark gray (right)? I'm torn because, to me, the option on the left better portrays the sprite being over a transparent layer, but in the option on the right, the sprite itself simply looks better.


(http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/2064/maskedspritepreviewcomp.png)

Another image (also, sneak peak at the epicness that will be the new sprite editor - note the full filesystem - no, it's not just a mock-up):

(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2064/maskedspritepreviewcomp.png)

Another, with non-Zelda sprites:

(http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/2064/maskedspritepreviewcomp.png)

Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: yunhua98 on October 06, 2010, 10:12:12 pm
right, it looks much more natural.  ;)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 06, 2010, 11:12:02 pm
Yeah, but that would mean a darker gray is used for transparency, which might not look good in many situations. I vote left...

EDIT: Maybe you could post more examples? If we were to vote based on how it looks, the sprite on the right definitely looks better.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 06, 2010, 11:15:40 pm
I would go with right. I think this is what Zelda on the GB uses, but I'm not sure. It also looks better.

Btw if you finish your editor are you planning to upload it in the downloads section? It would make it much easier to find for programmers.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on October 06, 2010, 11:18:39 pm
Yeah, but that would mean a darker gray is used for transparency, which might not look good in many situations. I vote left...

EDIT: Maybe you could post more examples? If we were to vote based on how it looks, the sprite on the right definitely looks better.

Yeah, I probably should post more examples. Especially because the Zelda sprite was designed to have the coloring of the sprite on the right, so it will naturally look better.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: meishe91 on October 06, 2010, 11:30:18 pm
I can't really decide without seeing like the actual space around it (like the other textures/sprites/etc.).
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Builderboy on October 06, 2010, 11:42:31 pm
I personally like the left one better, but what about a transparent background that animated?  Like some scrolling light grey diagonal lines to show through the sprite to make everything more noticeable?
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on October 06, 2010, 11:46:12 pm
I personally like the left one better, but what about a transparent background that animated?  Like some scrolling light grey diagonal lines to show through the sprite to make everything more noticeable?

Well that would just be a pain lol.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 06, 2010, 11:46:25 pm
I personally like the left one better, but what about a transparent background that animated?  Like some scrolling light grey diagonal lines to show through the sprite to make everything more noticeable?

That sounds like a good idea. You could use L1 for a third buffer for that!
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 07, 2010, 02:25:01 am
I saw the new examples. I would definitively go with the right ones, except if your game is meant to run on a regular black 83+. On such calc, having a dark gray floor would be way too dark. On the other hand, having the entire floor filled with light gray will almost make it invisible on that calc model x.x
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 07, 2010, 06:30:41 pm
Hmm, the one on the right does look better. And this is looking awesome! Especially the filesystem. Does it search through the VAT to find pics, or are they all saved in an appvar? In any case, good luck on this. It looks like one of those little utils I'll definitely use :)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: yunhua98 on October 07, 2010, 06:39:07 pm
hey look!  its one of my sprites!  :P  but the right still looks better.  ;)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: ztrumpet on October 07, 2010, 06:39:26 pm
Looks wonderful!  I still use your old Sprite Editor to do all my spriting; it's an awesome program.
I can't wait for more info on this! ;D

I think Builderboy's suggestion for scrolling lines is the best. :)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 07, 2010, 06:41:17 pm
I think Builderboy's suggestion for scrolling lines is the best. :)

What's that?

EDIT: Btw, planning a release anytime soon? It looks amazing!
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Magic Banana on October 07, 2010, 06:44:31 pm
Hmm, well in the preview, the left uses a nicer shade of gray on the sprite itself, but in dealing with transparencies the right has a much more distinguishable transparency layer. Is what is seen in the preview going to be what they look like if used in-game or will they use the same gray in-game and this is just for the sprite editor?
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 07, 2010, 06:53:47 pm
Well, transparent would be transparent in-game :P

EDIT: Darn, can't change my vote. Is voting closed, or are we not allowed to switch?
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Magic Banana on October 07, 2010, 06:58:38 pm
Well, transparent would be transparent in-game :P

EDIT: Darn, can't change my vote. Is voting closed, or are we not allowed to switch?
Ha ha, yeah, I figured that. I was wondering if the gray in the preview will be the same shade of gray in a game or if both grays will end up looking the same when used in-game.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 07, 2010, 07:05:38 pm
Oh, I see. I'd assume in-game gray would be lighter than the one used in the sprite on the left and lighter than the one on the right.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 07, 2010, 07:24:53 pm

EDIT: Darn, can't change my vote.
Fixed.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 07, 2010, 07:26:02 pm
Thanks! Still pretty even...
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Magic Banana on October 07, 2010, 07:41:00 pm
Oh, I see. I'd assume in-game gray would be lighter than the one used in the sprite on the left and lighter than the one on the right.
Ah, alright, that definitely clears things up, in which case I'd much rather have the one on the left because a lighter transparency layer is much easier to work with than a dark one.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 07, 2010, 07:46:27 pm
It can get kinda hard to differentiate between white and transparency in that case. It's more important to tell the difference between them than between white and gray because you sometimes don't notice the small difference between white and transparency.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: shmibs on October 07, 2010, 07:47:19 pm
/\dittoed
(hmm... 6 to 6)
EDIT: deep thought keeps jumping in front of me :P
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 07, 2010, 07:49:58 pm
/\dittoed
(hmm... 6 to 6)
EDIT: deep thought keeps jumping in front of me :P
/me is FAST ;D
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on October 07, 2010, 09:23:16 pm
6-7, damn, this is making it hard to decide :o I think I'll probably just add support for both display modes and let the user choose which mode they want to use on a sprite-by-sprite basis. However, it would be nice if were the vote were leaning a bit one way so I can at least choose a default display mode.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: yunhua98 on October 07, 2010, 09:40:20 pm
lol, 7-7 now, although I like support for both modes, sounds like a plan.  ;)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 07, 2010, 09:54:21 pm
6-7, damn, this is making it hard to decide :o I think I'll probably just add support for both display modes and let the user choose which mode they want to use on a sprite-by-sprite basis. However, it would be nice if were the vote were leaning a bit one way so I can at least choose a default display mode.

Maybe you could flash all the transparent blocks on and off? It doesn't take much code.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: calcdude84se on October 07, 2010, 09:56:04 pm
I could see that getting somewhat distracting and difficult to use. :P
I like the idea of being able to choose which mode to use :)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Madskillz on October 07, 2010, 09:57:37 pm
This was tough...I chose the one on the right mainly because it made the sprites look more like they actually are. But then again the grays wont be the same shade color as in the preview so it really could go either way.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 07, 2010, 09:57:50 pm
I could see that getting somewhat distracting and difficult to use. :P
I like the idea of being able to choose which mode to use :)

Good point. So basically this vote is now on the default...
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: qazz42 on October 07, 2010, 09:58:31 pm
meh, the right looks way better
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Darl181 on October 08, 2010, 12:03:57 am
Voted the left.  To me, it makes sense for something transparent to be a light color.
Nice to see this being updated.  I still use the old one all the time
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Quigibo on October 08, 2010, 12:11:57 am
Why not just have white be transparent?  Then light gray would be white, dark gray would be gray, and black would be black.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on October 08, 2010, 02:06:19 am
Why not just have white be transparent?  Then light gray would be white, dark gray would be gray, and black would be black.

Why not just have white be transparent? Because then light gray would be white, lol :P
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Quigibo on October 08, 2010, 02:28:05 am
But then the shades of the colors would still be in order i.e. the lightest color is the lightest and the darkest color is the darkest instead of a middle color.  Also, it would be easier to convert since I think this is how its actually implemented in Pt-Mask().
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Builderboy on October 08, 2010, 03:23:26 am
I was thinking something like this and get the best of all worlds :D

Of course this might be a bit big, but i think the animating transparency is the way to go.  You could have a flashing light grey maybe, or a rolling light grey by pixel for example
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on October 08, 2010, 04:11:07 am
I was thinking something like this and get the best of all worlds :D

Of course this might be a bit big, but i think the animating transparency is the way to go.  You could have a flashing light grey maybe, or a rolling light grey by pixel for example

Something like that would be nice for editing the individual sprite, but it would be difficult to implement in the filesystem. Unless you have some ideas about how to make it easy and not interfere with other things on the screen.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Builderboy on October 08, 2010, 04:14:00 am
I think for the filesystem, transparency isn't necessarily a must for display, and it would probably look best without.  Since the user already knows the 'page' of the filesystem is white, having a different color represent transparency makes it seem like there is actually something there.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 08, 2010, 01:46:42 pm
Voted the left.  To me, it makes sense for something transparent to be a light color.

If this had been taken out of context, I would have thought we were talking politics :D

EDIT: And we're being racist here XD

Why not just have white be transparent?  Then light gray would be white, dark gray would be gray, and black would be black.

That actually sounds like a good idea ... as in "really" white for transparent.

I think for the filesystem, transparency isn't necessarily a must for display, and it would probably look best without.  Since the user already knows the 'page' of the filesystem is white, having a different color represent transparency makes it seem like there is actually something there.

Exactly! The filesystem doesn't need to draw the sprites perfectly. It just gives us a rough idea of which sprite it is. For sprite editing, a rolling/flashing background transparency thing sounds best.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on October 08, 2010, 06:16:51 pm
Lol nice one Deep Thought x.x, although if someone really said that in a political context it might sound a bit racist :P. I lol'ed, though, at how much different the meaning would be, if taken out of context ;D

@Runer112 how is it progressing btw? :)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: yunhua98 on October 08, 2010, 06:50:13 pm
are you still going to implement both? or which ever one wins?  it's really close though, it'll probably end up being your choice.  ;)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on October 08, 2010, 06:51:23 pm
Lol nice one Deep Thought x.x, although if someone really said that in a political context it might sound a bit racist :P. I lol'ed, though, at how much different the meaning would be, if taken out of context ;D

@Runer112 how is it progressing btw? :)

Slowly...

are you still going to implement both? or which ever one wins?  it's really close though, it'll probably end up being your choice.  ;)

I've already implemented both, the user could choose which one looks best on a sprite-by-sprite basis.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: yunhua98 on October 08, 2010, 06:52:30 pm
ah, ok, cool.
this is going to great for oncalc spriting

EDIT: 500th post!
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on October 08, 2010, 09:20:45 pm
are you still going to implement both? or which ever one wins?  it's really close though, it'll probably end up being your choice.  ;)

I've already implemented both, the user could choose which one looks best on a sprite-by-sprite basis.

...and the default choice? :D

ah, ok, cool.
this is going to great for oncalc spriting

^ Agreed.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on October 08, 2010, 10:18:37 pm
are you still going to implement both? or which ever one wins?  it's really close though, it'll probably end up being your choice.  ;)

I've already implemented both, the user could choose which one looks best on a sprite-by-sprite basis.

...and the default choice? :D

I have no idea lol
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Darl181 on November 02, 2010, 12:53:15 am
*bump*
I really hope this is still going.  Are there any updates?
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: fb39ca4 on November 02, 2010, 09:03:52 pm
Is the background still being displayed in full 4lvl grayscale?
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on November 02, 2010, 09:09:25 pm
I have like 10 different things I want to do, and I keep jumping from project to project. This is high on my list of priorities though, so I'll probably jump back to this pretty soon.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 02, 2010, 09:18:59 pm
That's good to hear. I also hope your other extremly massive project is still progressing a bit. :D
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Darl181 on November 02, 2010, 09:19:19 pm
Awesome ;D
Can't wait to see it finished so I can upgrade the one from June
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on November 02, 2010, 09:28:15 pm
That's good to hear. I also hope your other extremly massive project is still progressing a bit. :D

That's been on hold until I can finish up other projects. When I start working on that I don't want to have other projects distracting me so I can focus solely on it.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 02, 2010, 09:35:12 pm
Ah ok I see :P

I'll have to see about making a pink nickname usergroup for people who don't work enough on certain projects. ;D
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Darl181 on November 02, 2010, 09:35:28 pm
Oh, you're doing one of those secret projects?
Good luck on that.

Ah ok I see :P

I'll have to see about making a pink nickname usergroup for people who don't work enough on certain projects. ;D
Calc84maniac of f-zero? :P
j/k
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: MRide on November 02, 2010, 09:46:48 pm
Ah ok I see :P

I'll have to see about making a pink nickname usergroup for people who don't work enough on certain projects. ;D
Which probably means I'll have one then. :P
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Darl181 on November 02, 2010, 09:49:49 pm
Wait...but lobsters are already pink
Brown, maybe?
hmm...there are like 10 colors possible...
RandInt(1,10)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: MRide on November 02, 2010, 09:52:26 pm
Or maybe...rainbow? (http://omnimaga.org/images/rainbowsmiley.gif)
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 02, 2010, 10:01:40 pm
Lol I remember that emoticon. I should really read some doc on how to add more smileys to a SMF forum... it seems 100 times harder than learning assembly.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: fb39ca4 on November 03, 2010, 03:48:26 pm
How about white being used as the transparent color-I don't see it used that much in GB sprites, and the light gray is fine when a light color is needed.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: TIfanx1999 on November 03, 2010, 04:00:15 pm
Voted left. It seems more clear that way to me.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: ASHBAD_ALVIN on November 03, 2010, 04:03:50 pm
same, I voted left.  The gray looks weird that dark on the sprite, but it is much more obvious in my opinion. 

Also runer--- this is a cool project! keep up the great work :D
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Darl181 on November 03, 2010, 06:23:18 pm
Voted the left.  To me, it makes sense for something transparent to be a light color.
Nice to see this being updated.  I still use the old one all the time
I still like the left better.
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Jonius7 on November 04, 2010, 07:00:44 am
i like the left better, because of the transparency, and the right darkness looks too contrasting.
but looks like opinion is nearly divided
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on May 22, 2011, 10:18:02 am
I wonder if this is sti
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 22, 2011, 04:14:34 pm
I wonder if this is sti
Um, missing part of your sentence here? :P
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: ztrumpet on May 22, 2011, 04:16:57 pm
I wonder if this is sti
Um, missing part of your sentence here? :P
He may be, but I think it's easy enough to figure out what he was tryi
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Deep Toaster on May 22, 2011, 04:18:33 pm
I wonder if this is sti
Um, missing part of your sentence here? :P
He may be, but I think it's easy enough to figure out what he was tryi

Yeah, and I didn't want to type nine mo
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 22, 2011, 04:40:04 pm
I am suddenly reminded of the spam topic where Netham45 was killing people before they could finish their sentences...

Anyhow, I wonder if this was ever completed?
Title: Re: Which color palette is better?
Post by: Runer112 on May 22, 2011, 07:03:56 pm
No, it was not. I eventually plan to pick it up again, but not right now.