Author Topic: Religion Discussion  (Read 50096 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline pimathbrainiac

  • Occasionally I make projects
  • Members
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1731
  • Rating: +136/-23
  • dagaem
    • View Profile
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #105 on: May 23, 2013, 05:16:00 pm »
Also: Christianity (Specifically Roman Catholicism) has changed to fit new discoveries and to fit the current world.

For example: Jesus's original birthday was in June/July (based on the oldest texts and such, before Roman Catholicism) but it was changed to be in December to coincide with Pagan holidays celebrated at the same time in Europe.

Also: Once you get to Roman Catholicism (in chronological order), you start to see corruption. This, at one point, was so much that the Pope was pretty much supreme ruler (or at least the guy that you went to to resolve any dispute) of Europe. Example: The Treaty of Tordesillas ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tordesillas )

Also: There are so many religions that they can't all be right. People are only sure of their religion because that is what they believe to be true.

[opinion]

Let's call Christianity a scientific theory for a minute. You can not prove Christianity or any religion because, like a scientific theory, it can be verified, but never proven for sure, but you can disprove it because, like a scientific theory, if one part is wrong, the whole thing is wrong.

Since radioactive dating has proven the earth older than any religion that puts the earth at a definitive age, and that it has a finite age (disproving religions in which the earth has already existed).

So, in essence (for Christianity), creationism/intelligent design can not be proven right, but since the religion as a whole is proven wrong because many parts have been proven wrong, creationism/intelligent design are wrong.

Evolution, on the other hand, has been verified in several labs with sexually reproducing organisms. As in: a species divided and evolved so that one group could not breed with the other and produce fertile offspring, creating a new species, by definition. It has also been observed with larger plants and animals.

That is not to say that it won't be proven wrong, but it has been verified, and is safe for the time being.

[/opinion]
« Last Edit: May 23, 2013, 05:41:00 pm by pimathbrainiac »
I am Bach.

Offline jwalker

  • LV7 Elite (Next: 700)
  • *******
  • Posts: 660
  • Rating: +13/-0
  • Almost everything I have released includes a 'WZ'
    • View Profile
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #106 on: May 23, 2013, 05:37:37 pm »
How has Christianity been proven wrong? Christianity has a definitive age but Judaism dose not, and that is where Christianity is derived.
<a href="http://www.nerdtests.com/ft_cg.php?im">
<img src="http://www.nerdtests.com/images/ft/cg.php?val=9612" alt="My computer geek score is greater than 41% of all people in the world! How do you compare? Click here to find out!"> </a>

Support Casio-Scene against the attacks of matt @ matpac.co.uk ! For more information: Casio-Scene shuts down & Matt actions threads

Offline pimathbrainiac

  • Occasionally I make projects
  • Members
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1731
  • Rating: +136/-23
  • dagaem
    • View Profile
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #107 on: May 23, 2013, 05:40:22 pm »
Quote
Since radioactive dating has proven the earth older than any religion with a definitive age, and that it has a finite age (disproving religions in which the earth has already existed)

I meant to say that has the earth at a definitive age. my bad. If you treat it like a scientific theory, you must say that if one part is wrong, the whole thing is. This was just one example.
I am Bach.

Offline Stefan Bauwens

  • Creator of Myst 89 - סטיבן
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1799
  • Rating: +162/-24
  • 68k programmer
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #108 on: May 24, 2013, 04:52:45 am »
@Pimathbrainiac I agree that the catholic church(and probably other churches as well) have made big mistakes in history. And they were definitely wrong.
I myself am not Catholic, just a Christian who bases himself on the Bible. However, it doesn't mean that if a leader of a group does something bad that the whole thing is corrupt...

The Bible is infallible: It has NOT been proven wrong. There may be translation that are wrong though.
Evolution has flaws, so according to you I may call it all wrong?

Trust me, science isn't as accurate as it may seem. It is many times flawed.(For example, putting an age on a piece of stone/other thing).

I believe in de-evolution, and that makes a lot of sense to me. Say you have a superdog, and then it's descendants have little changes and they devolve to different kinds of dogs. However, they'll never be as perfect as their ancestor was. Same with humans, are age is always getting shorter, and it's not only because of all the sicknesses.
Devolution is happening, and has been witnessed, not the opposite.


Very proud Ticalc.org POTY winner (2011 68k) with Myst 89!
Very proud TI-Planet.org DBZ winner(2013)

Interview with me

Offline squidgetx

  • Food.
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1881
  • Rating: +503/-17
  • rawr.
    • View Profile
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #109 on: May 24, 2013, 05:45:04 am »
Why is the Bible infallible?

Offline Stefan Bauwens

  • Creator of Myst 89 - סטיבן
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1799
  • Rating: +162/-24
  • 68k programmer
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #110 on: May 24, 2013, 06:43:43 am »
Why is the Bible infallible?
http://lifeshandbook.wikidot.com/why-believe
See 'The Bible' section on that page. :)


Very proud Ticalc.org POTY winner (2011 68k) with Myst 89!
Very proud TI-Planet.org DBZ winner(2013)

Interview with me

Offline TIfanx1999

  • ಠ_ಠ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV13 Extreme Addict (Next: 9001)
  • *
  • Posts: 6173
  • Rating: +191/-9
    • View Profile
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #111 on: May 24, 2013, 07:42:48 am »
@Pimathbrainiac I agree that the catholic church(and probably other churches as well) have made big mistakes in history. And they were definitely wrong.
I myself am not Catholic, just a Christian who bases himself on the Bible. However, it doesn't mean that if a leader of a group does something bad that the whole thing is corrupt...

The Bible is infallible: It has NOT been proven wrong. There may be translation that are wrong though.
Evolution has flaws, so according to you I may call it all wrong?

Trust me, science isn't as accurate as it may seem. It is many times flawed.(For example, putting an age on a piece of stone/other thing).

I believe in de-evolution, and that makes a lot of sense to me. Say you have a superdog, and then it's descendants have little changes and they devolve to different kinds of dogs. However, they'll never be as perfect as their ancestor was. Same with humans, are age is always getting shorter, and it's not only because of all the sicknesses.
Devolution is happening, and has been witnessed, not the opposite.
That makes no sense at all. In fact the opposite of what you say is true. People are living longer today than they were say 50 years ago due to advances in science and knowledge. This is why many things are happening like retirement ages being continually pushed back. In Japan people aged 65 and over account for 22% of the population and are expected to account for ~40% of the population by 2050. People are continuing to get stronger and smarter. World records for physical feats are constantly being shattered and science is advancing at crazy rates. I have no idea where you would get the idea that people and other animals are devolving, and if you could believe that why believing evolution exists is so difficult to you.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 07:43:33 am by Art_of_camelot »

Offline Stefan Bauwens

  • Creator of Myst 89 - סטיבן
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1799
  • Rating: +162/-24
  • 68k programmer
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #112 on: May 24, 2013, 08:01:34 am »
Yes, that may be because of science(medicines, etc). But if we had this science back then(and less hard work), they would live longer.
The reason why retirement age is getting extended is just because there are always getting less land less children and the older people will have to work longer.

Every mutation usually is downhill and happens by an error. Sometimes these mutations can have beneficial effects, but it's still less than it was.


Very proud Ticalc.org POTY winner (2011 68k) with Myst 89!
Very proud TI-Planet.org DBZ winner(2013)

Interview with me

Offline pimathbrainiac

  • Occasionally I make projects
  • Members
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1731
  • Rating: +136/-23
  • dagaem
    • View Profile
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #113 on: May 24, 2013, 08:08:57 am »
@Pimathbrainiac I agree that the catholic church(and probably other churches as well) have made big mistakes in history. And they were definitely wrong.
I myself am not Catholic, just a Christian who bases himself on the Bible. However, it doesn't mean that if a leader of a group does something bad that the whole thing is corrupt...

The Bible is infallible: It has NOT been proven wrong. There may be translation that are wrong though.
Evolution has flaws, so according to you I may call it all wrong?

Trust me, science isn't as accurate as it may seem. It is many times flawed.(For example, putting an age on a piece of stone/other thing).

I believe in de-evolution, and that makes a lot of sense to me. Say you have a superdog, and then it's descendants have little changes and they devolve to different kinds of dogs. However, they'll never be as perfect as their ancestor was. Same with humans, are age is always getting shorter, and it's not only because of all the sicknesses.
Devolution is happening, and has been witnessed, not the opposite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiometric_dating

The science and math are both sound here. As far as we've seen rocks and fossils dated, it's hard to believe that the earth is only a few thousand or even 1,000,000 years old.

That is just at least one place where the bible is wrong: dating the earth.

The bible also places the creation of the earth as 6 (7?) days. This we know for a fact is wrong because there are supernovas (which form new star(s) and planet(s)) that have been observed for much more than 6 (7?) days and haven't formed an entire planet. It takes a very long time to form a planet (observation works, eh?).

Edit:
Yes, that may be because of science(medicines, etc). But if we had this science back then(and less hard work), they would live longer.
The reason why retirement age is getting extended is just because there are always getting less land less children and the older people will have to work longer.

Every mutation usually is downhill and happens by an error. Sometimes these mutations can have beneficial effects, but it's still less than it was.

Considering we see mutations allow species of insects to be immune to insecticide, as well as bacteria to antibiotics.

While not beneficial to us,these mutations are beneficial to their respective species.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 08:11:01 am by pimathbrainiac »
I am Bach.

Offline Stefan Bauwens

  • Creator of Myst 89 - סטיבן
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1799
  • Rating: +162/-24
  • 68k programmer
    • View Profile
    • Portfolio
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #114 on: May 24, 2013, 08:26:21 am »
Scientifically it is impossible, but don't you think that if there would be a God it could make it in a second, or in one billionth of a second? 6 Days is actually extremely long for God.
However, it is said in the Bible that one day is like a thousand years for God and a thousands days as one day, proving that for God time is completely different. These 7 days may have been 7 seconds or 7 googleplex years.


Very proud Ticalc.org POTY winner (2011 68k) with Myst 89!
Very proud TI-Planet.org DBZ winner(2013)

Interview with me

Offline jwalker

  • LV7 Elite (Next: 700)
  • *******
  • Posts: 660
  • Rating: +13/-0
  • Almost everything I have released includes a 'WZ'
    • View Profile
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #115 on: May 24, 2013, 10:31:35 am »
@pimathbraniac The people that try and date the bible are also the ones that take everything the bible says at face value, when you actually have to read deeper into it to get the actual meaning. The bible is filled with symbolism, and that frustrates me, but that is how ancient peoples wrote things.
<a href="http://www.nerdtests.com/ft_cg.php?im">
<img src="http://www.nerdtests.com/images/ft/cg.php?val=9612" alt="My computer geek score is greater than 41% of all people in the world! How do you compare? Click here to find out!"> </a>

Support Casio-Scene against the attacks of matt @ matpac.co.uk ! For more information: Casio-Scene shuts down & Matt actions threads

Offline Scipi

  • Omni Kitten Meow~ =^ω^=
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1547
  • Rating: +192/-3
  • Meow :3
    • View Profile
    • ScipiSoftware
Re: Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #116 on: May 24, 2013, 02:10:54 pm »
Human lifespans have been increasing dramatically. In ancient times, it might have been considered rare to have lived to 60 years of age. Nowadays, it's quite common to see people in their 80's and 90's.

Also, evolution and de-evolution are the same thing. Evolution says there only needs to be change between generations of organisms, it does not matter what direction thay change is in.

Imma Cat! =^_^= :3 (It's an emoticon now!)
Spoiler For Things I find interesting:
Spoiler For AI Programming:
Spoiler For Shameless advertising:

Spoiler For OldSig:





Spoiler For IMPORTANT NEWS!:
Late last night, Quebec was invaded by a group calling themselves, "Omnimaga". Not much is known about these mysterious people except that they all carried calculators of some kind and they all seemed to converge on one house in particular. Experts estimate that the combined power of their fabled calculators is greater than all the worlds super computers put together. The group seems to be holding out in the home of a certain DJ_O, who the Omnimagians claim to be their founder. Such power has put the world at a standstill with everyone waiting to see what the Omnimagians will do...

Wait... This just in, the Omnimagians have sent the UN a list of demands that must be met or else the world will be "submitted to the wrath of Netham45's Lobster Army". Such demands include >9001 crates of peanuts, sacrificial blue lobsters, and a wide assortment of cherry flavored items. With such computing power stored in the hands of such people, we can only hope these demands are met.

In the wake of these events, we can only ask, Why? Why do these people make these demands, what caused them to gather, and what are their future plans...

Offline XiiDraco

  • LV7 Elite (Next: 700)
  • *******
  • Posts: 513
  • Rating: +32/-5
  • Forget the numbers, just call me, Recreation.
    • View Profile
    • Black-Lark Games
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #117 on: May 24, 2013, 02:39:58 pm »
If you have read the bible, you can see that someone (can't remember name) lived to be 900+, wouldn't that get kinda old?

Offline squidgetx

  • Food.
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1881
  • Rating: +503/-17
  • rawr.
    • View Profile
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #118 on: May 24, 2013, 02:48:50 pm »
Stefan, I don't find what is written on that site satisfactory at all. The section on why the Bible is infallible has 3 main points:

1) The Bible has no contradictions and has never been proven wrong
What about this? As another example big bang theory/evolution disagrees with Genesis' account of creation, but seeing as how we are already talking about that I won't bother repeating the words of others on this point.
2) It is a living document and written with symbolism and hidden meanings.
So what? The Constitution (of the USA) is a living document. The Great Gatsby has symbolism and hidden meanings. How something is written has no bearing on whether it is indisputable truth.
3) Everyone says so
I don't think I need to explain why this is patently irrelevant
« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 02:50:48 pm by squidgetx »

Offline epic7

  • Chopin!
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2200
  • Rating: +135/-8
  • I like robots
    • View Profile
Re: Religion Discussion
« Reply #119 on: May 24, 2013, 03:27:20 pm »
It seems like people take the Bible literally, until they find a contradiction with science. Then they just claim that it was a metaphor, and move on.

Same with humans, are age is always getting shorter, and it's not only because of all the sicknesses.
I have no idea why you would even begin to think that. The life expectancy has exploded upward in the past century.
And sicknesses? Look at this:
Spoiler For Spoiler: