Omnimaga
General Discussion => Technology and Development => Other => Topic started by: fb39ca4 on November 22, 2010, 05:15:41 pm
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I decided to sync my itouch for the first time today, it made a backup, and then it started deleting apps. I unplugged the cable. Is there a way to recover those apps from the backup, and then not have itunes delete them again? (If it makes a difference, I got my apps using "questionable methods")
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The questionable methods is probably your problem. But yes, you can. In the main menu of your ipod, around where the update button is, there should be a restore button. You can restore to a previous backup that way. I would like to know more about these "questionable methods" as this may cause that method not to work.
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Installious
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Installious
Wait, you've jailbroken it. Yeah, you might not be getting that backup. Try the method I suggested, though. It should work.
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I still have the backup files. Is there another program I can use to restore my ipod with?
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I still have the backup files. Is there another program I can use to restore my ipod with?
Not that I know of.
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Is that an anti-jailbreak protection causing itunes to take revenge against you?
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No, it's probably trying to update the jailbroken device the same way a normal device is, but if he's got apps that are not signed by apple (as apple does the signing before releasing it to the app store) then they aren't valid, and so iTunes tries to get rid of them. If they are signed, then there's no problem. Apple probably uses some form of SHA-2 and RSA(some public/private key algorithm)
Note that this is just speculative right now.
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Is that an anti-jailbreak protection causing itunes to take revenge against you?
Wow, that's worse than TI O.o
I have a friend who got his apps cleared too when he updated, too. Don't know how to stop it from happening :-\
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I have a friend who got his apps cleared too when he updated, too. Don't know how to stop it from happening :-\
Don't update. It's as simple as that. Later safe procedure will probably be found.
This is another leasson IT industry is busy teaching to users: since upgrades tend to block/remove all "unapproved" features (Apple is not an exception: Microsoft, Motorola, Nintendo, SONY and others are just as guilty) users are slowly learning to distrust them. This is defenitely bad for security, but when upgrades remove even advertised features (think Playtation3) it's hard to blame users.
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Include Texas Instruments in the list above too. They added an anti-downgrade protection in TI-Nspire OS 2.1, because OS 1.1 and 1.7 allowed ASM/C programs to be ran. :P
http://ourl.ca/6358
The jailbreaking scene is a neverending war between the big greedy company and the 3rd party programmers.
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send all your ipa's to itunes, put them in a separate folder, update to the next jailbreakable version of iOS, put all your ipa's back on your device by SSH and install them because itunes might delete them, or install Installi0us and appsync, and then sync. But you shouldn't be using install0us. Morally and Ethically wrong. Buy the apps instead.
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Now hold up, companies aren't always "big and greedy". Those big companies are what makes a strong economy. They have reasons for their decisions. Think of it this way, DJ. as an admin, you make choices that affect this site. Because it is your site, you want it to do well. That is your motivation for keeping things out that you consider detrimental to your site. It's the same with companies.
Sorry, but the whole "profit and big companies are bad" thing really is a sore spot.
I wonder what method of signing it uses though. If we got a signed vs. Unsigned copy of an app, I could probably figure out.
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I guess the question boils down to is this: you said you got apps through questionable methods, did you get them for free while you would have to pay for them normally?
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Now hold up, companies aren't always "big and greedy".
Yes, they are.
They have reasons for their decisions. Think of it this way, DJ. as an admin, you make choices that affect this site. Because it is your site, you want it to do well. That is your motivation for keeping things out that you consider detrimental to your site. It's the same with companies.
Sure. They can do whatever they want. They can even ask me to obey some rules if I want to use their site. But WTF they pretend they have right to dictate what I do in my home? I've bought the TI-Nspire and fb39ca4 (http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?action=profile;u=709) bought the iPad. I have an invoice. It's mine. Why do they have the need to try to criplle the thing they no longer own? It's as stupid and immoral as the futile try of DJ to dictate what I should write in my love letters. There are few noble reasons for that (think spyware removal tools), but then main reason to do that is: to try to extort more money from me. This is greed - not noble at all. When PlayStation3 forces me to buy new controller to play online - that's greed, when TI forces me to spend money for Nspire CAS and closes the way for third-party developers to develop CAS package - that's greed, when Motorola says "no more updates for you, buy own new model" - that's greed too.
All companies start small and helful and become increasingly hostile and harmful with time because of the greed. But there are different degrees. When Intel refuses to give nVidia right to sell chipsets - it's one thing, it's greed and it's bad thing, but it does not affect me directly, but when Apple or SONY or Texas Instruments decide to say what I can and can not do in my own home - that's just over the top.
I guess the question boils down to is this: you said you got apps through questionable methods, did you get them for free while you would have to pay for them normally?
Yup. That's good question too: if it's some banned applications whuch Apple just does not like for one reason or another - it's one thing, if it's programs which are distributed against author's wishes - it's another thing.
But the end result is the same: people are trained to guard their property and reject upgrades when in doubt.
Include Texas Instruments in the list above too. They added an anti-downgrade protection in TI-Nspire OS 2.1, because OS 1.1 and 1.7 allowed ASM/C programs to be ran. :P
http://ourl.ca/6358
Hmm... The link above says that you still can use OS 1.7 after upgrade, only 1.1 is disallowed. And OS 2.1 has some new features too. Compare this behaviour with Microsoft, SONY, or Nintendo: these companies published upgrades which had one and one goal only: to cripple your lawfully-owned device.
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I guess the question boils down to is this: you said you got apps through questionable methods, did you get them for free while you would have to pay for them normally?
Yup. That's good question too: if it's some banned applications whuch Apple just does not like for one reason or another - it's one thing, if it's programs which are distributed against author's wishes - it's another thing.
Well my point being that while i do not think jailbreaking your iphone is wrong, or that apple has a right to deny jailbreaking, i do think getting paid apps for free is wrong, and that apple has the right to delete any apps they detect have been dowloaded illegally.
Likening this to TI, i do not think it is wrong to hack our devices so that we can run any software we want, and i think its wrong for them to try to prevent us from doing so. But i do think it is wrong if we distribute some of TI's own software for free, and that TI would have the right to delete the software if they caught us.
EDIT: I might also point out that Apple is not the only one benefiting from sales on the App Store. If i wanted to, i could develop games for the iphone, and distribute them for a living. I would also be a bit upset if i failed to make very much money because people were downloading my apps illegally :(
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/me stabs TI with a spoon
/me jailbreaks his soon to be casio prizm
* TI looks saddened
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Now hold up, companies aren't always "big and greedy".
Yes, they are.
They have reasons for their decisions. Think of it this way, DJ. as an admin, you make choices that affect this site. Because it is your site, you want it to do well. That is your motivation for keeping things out that you consider detrimental to your site. It's the same with companies.
Sure. They can do whatever they want. They can even ask me to obey some rules if I want to use their site. But WTF they pretend they have right to dictate what I do in my home? I've bought the TI-Nspire and fb39ca4 (http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?action=profile;u=709) bought the iPad. I have an invoice. It's mine. Why do they have the need to try to criplle the thing they no longer own? It's as stupid and immoral as the futile try of DJ to dictate what I should write in my love letters. There are few noble reasons for that (think spyware removal tools), but then main reason to do that is: to try to extort more money from me. This is greed - not noble at all. When PlayStation3 forces me to buy new controller to play online - that's greed, when TI forces me to spend money for Nspire CAS and closes the way for third-party developers to develop CAS package - that's greed, when Motorola says "no more updates for you, buy own new model" - that's greed too.
All companies start small and helful and become increasingly hostile and harmful with time because of the greed. But there are different degrees. When Intel refuses to give nVidia right to sell chipsets - it's one thing, it's greed and it's bad thing, but it does not affect me directly, but when Apple or SONY or Texas Instruments decide to say what I can and can not do in my own home - that's just over the top.
I guess the question boils down to is this: you said you got apps through questionable methods, did you get them for free while you would have to pay for them normally?
Yup. That's good question too: if it's some banned applications whuch Apple just does not like for one reason or another - it's one thing, if it's programs which are distributed against author's wishes - it's another thing.
But the end result is the same: people are trained to guard their property and reject upgrades when in doubt.
Include Texas Instruments in the list above too. They added an anti-downgrade protection in TI-Nspire OS 2.1, because OS 1.1 and 1.7 allowed ASM/C programs to be ran. :P
http://ourl.ca/6358
Hmm... The link above says that you still can use OS 1.7 after upgrade, only 1.1 is disallowed. And OS 2.1 has some new features too. Compare this behaviour with Microsoft, SONY, or Nintendo: these companies published upgrades which had one and one goal only: to cripple your lawfully-owned device.
What calcforth said. If I buy a iPod Touch, I should be allowed to do whatever I want with it at home, as long as I'm not stealing anything. Example: If I'm developing a 3rd party game for it and I need to jailbreak it.
As for the OS 2.1 link, I guess you're right, I got confused with 2.0 for a second. X.x
That said, in the case of Omnimaga site, I can decide what is allowed on it and what not, though, since it is kinda like Omnimaga territory, not yours. Basically, if someone decides to attempt starting a flame war with Java or Python users, I can warn the user in question, because I'm trying to keep the site friendly. I can even ban troublemakers or haters. This is why the site has sets of rules to respect when you arrive on it. However, I have no right to go on your own website and tell you what to write in your posts.
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What calcforth said. If I buy a iPod Touch, I should be allowed to do whatever I want with it at home, as long as I'm not stealing anything. Example: If I'm developing a 3rd party game for it and I need to jailbreak it.
Precisely ^^ I think the reason apple does not like people jailbreaking their iphones is because they can also then get some of the apps for free, which deprives money from apple and developers.
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Yeah that's why I think. I am sure it's also to prevent people from writing better apps available for free, though.
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Well you don't necessarily need to have a jailbroken iphone to write apps for free, anybody anywhere can write apps for the iphone provided they have the iphone SDK, and they can charge whatever they want for their apps :)
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Ya know, I think it would be awesome if apple made a kernel so you could essentially make your own os, but they would immediately lose all control over it. There would be iphone viruses, and it would be bad. Which makes me wonder how "open" we should be with OTCalc. </slightly offtopic>
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Is that SDK free? Also are people forced to charge money for their app? On Xbox Live they do.
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They are not forced to charge money, they can make it charge whatever they want ^^ you do have to pay for the SDK though :(
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Is that SDK free? Also are people forced to charge money for their app? On Xbox Live they do.
You have to pay $99 dollars to be able to put your app in the store, but not to get the SDK. You can charge $X.99 where X is pretty much anything, or you could charge nothing at all. Apple takes, IIRC, %20 percent for each purchase.
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Well you don't necessarily need to have a jailbroken iphone to write apps for free, anybody anywhere can write apps for the iphone provided they have the iphone SDK, and they can charge whatever they want for their apps :)
Does not work this way. When you download the SDK you register your own iPhone with Apple and then program compiled with SDK can be run on that phone and only on that phone. You can not distribute it.
They are not forced to charge money, they can make it charge whatever they want ^^ you do have to pay for the SDK though :(
Actually it's free (http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action) - but it only works with MacOS. The problem here is not cost, it's question of control. The SDK is free, but you can not distribute programs developed with it except via AppStore and Apple keeps the right to kick anything from it at any time. Basically you are Apple slave and Apple decides if you projects lives or dies.
You have to pay $99 dollars to be able to put your app in the store, but not to get the SDK. You can charge $X.99 where X is pretty much anything, or you could charge nothing at all. Apple takes, IIRC, %20 percent for each purchase.
Not entirely correct. While text of agrement is not publically accessible (which is outrageous by itself since it affects so many people) the "Apple cut" is well-known: 30% (http://developer.apple.com/programs/ios/distribute.html).
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Only MacOS huh....
Guess I better get a copy and boot up good-old Virtual Box. ;D
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I was looking up a way to develop on windows, its called winChain, but it requires a 500MB prebuilt toolchain, which is apparently copyrighted, because it was not hosted on google code, but on bittorrent.
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winChain is apparently not updated frequently enough. But it can work. The best way that I know would be DragonFire SDK, but that costs $99 :/
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They are not forced to charge money, they can make it charge whatever they want ^^ you do have to pay for the SDK though :(
Actually it's free (http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action) - but it only works with MacOS. The problem here is not cost, it's question of control. The SDK is free, but you can not distribute programs developed with it except via AppStore and Apple keeps the right to kick anything from it at any time. Basically you are Apple slave and Apple decides if you projects lives or dies.
Ew this sucks. Basically, if I decide to develop apps for the Iphone, I need to pay myself a new computer OS? I sure hope it's possible to install Mac OS on any computer, now, not just their overpriced machines, otherwise I would be surprised if a lot of people developed apps distributed for free. X.x
Personally, I have no plan to develop apps for iPhone. I would rather prefer developing for a more open device or the computer. Right now I have no plan to do so, though, so I'm sticking to my good ol' 83+ calculator. :P
winChain is apparently not updated frequently enough. But it can work. The best way that I know would be DragonFire SDK, but that costs $99 :/
Is that in any way affiliated with the now-defunct IRC network and programming team that used to host United-TI IRC channel? ??? They were called Dragon-Fire Programming.
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Android, FTW. I love my android phone. I also wish I had time to make apps. ;-) Maybe an omnimaga app or something.
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Do you mean like a post notifier or something?
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They are not forced to charge money, they can make it charge whatever they want ^^ you do have to pay for the SDK though :(
Actually it's free (http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action) - but it only works with MacOS. The problem here is not cost, it's question of control. The SDK is free, but you can not distribute programs developed with it except via AppStore and Apple keeps the right to kick anything from it at any time. Basically you are Apple slave and Apple decides if you projects lives or dies.
Ew this sucks. Basically, if I decide to develop apps for the Iphone, I need to pay myself a new computer OS? I sure hope it's possible to install Mac OS on any computer, now, not just their overpriced machines, otherwise I would be surprised if a lot of people developed apps distributed for free. X.x
Personally, I have no plan to develop apps for iPhone. I would rather prefer developing for a more open device or the computer. Right now I have no plan to do so, though, so I'm sticking to my good ol' 83+ calculator. :P
winChain is apparently not updated frequently enough. But it can work. The best way that I know would be DragonFire SDK, but that costs $99 :/
Is that in any way affiliated with the now-defunct IRC network and programming team that used to host United-TI IRC channel? ??? They were called Dragon-Fire Programming.
I was googling the subject, and I found a bunch of "make an app in 5 easy steps" tutorials, where you come up with an idea, and hire a programmer to make the app, so you wouldn't need to buy a mac. Also, if you wanted, you could use OSx86 to install OSX on a PC.
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Do you mean like a post notifier or something?
Sure. I guess. I was thinking more like a mobile version of the site.
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They are not forced to charge money, they can make it charge whatever they want ^^ you do have to pay for the SDK though :(
Actually it's free (http://developer.apple.com/devcenter/ios/index.action) - but it only works with MacOS. The problem here is not cost, it's question of control. The SDK is free, but you can not distribute programs developed with it except via AppStore and Apple keeps the right to kick anything from it at any time. Basically you are Apple slave and Apple decides if you projects lives or dies.
Ew this sucks. Basically, if I decide to develop apps for the Iphone, I need to pay myself a new computer OS? I sure hope it's possible to install Mac OS on any computer, now, not just their overpriced machines, otherwise I would be surprised if a lot of people developed apps distributed for free. X.x
Personally, I have no plan to develop apps for iPhone. I would rather prefer developing for a more open device or the computer. Right now I have no plan to do so, though, so I'm sticking to my good ol' 83+ calculator. :P
winChain is apparently not updated frequently enough. But it can work. The best way that I know would be DragonFire SDK, but that costs $99 :/
Is that in any way affiliated with the now-defunct IRC network and programming team that used to host United-TI IRC channel? ??? They were called Dragon-Fire Programming.
I was googling the subject, and I found a bunch of "make an app in 5 easy steps" tutorials, where you come up with an idea, and hire a programmer to make the app, so you wouldn't need to buy a mac. Also, if you wanted, you could use OSx86 to install OSX on a PC.
Ah, right. Although then you need to make sure the person can be trusted.
Do you mean like a post notifier or something?
Sure. I guess. I was thinking more like a mobile version of the site.
Ah ok I see. We already have a mobile version, but it's very limited.
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Ew this sucks. Basically, if I decide to develop apps for the Iphone, I need to pay myself a new computer OS?
Nope - you need to pay for a new computer.
I sure hope it's possible to install Mac OS on any computer, now, not just their overpriced machines, otherwise I would be surprised if a lot of people developed apps distributed for free. X.x
Bingo (http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/05/distimo-june-2010/)! Some people have computer aqlready and some don't think $699 (for Mac Mini) is such a big deal, but yes, you need a Mac, and yes, it means physical computer.
winChain is apparently not updated frequently enough. But it can work. The best way that I know would be DragonFire SDK, but that costs $99 :/
Hmm. From their faq (http://www.dragonfiresdk.com/faq.htm):
Can I submit my App to the Apple App Store?
Yes! Your final App is compiled on a Mac and ready for the App Store.
There are many ways to develop app for iPhone without Mac, but if you want to distribute it... it's different story. You can probably borrow Mac from you Macophile friend (if you have one), but you really need it if you want to sell (or just distribute) iPhone App.
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Ouch, no way to dual-boot either, I guess?
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Ouch, no way to dual-boot either, I guess?
I can dual boot windows with "boot camp" on my mac, but you can't boot mac from your windows.
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I can dual boot windows with "boot camp" on my mac, but you can't boot mac from your windows.
Yup. That's because Microsoft is convinced monopoly abuser and so it was forced to concede some of it's control. Apple is 100 times worse WRT to abuses, but it's not a monopoly so it gets away with such tying (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_(commerce)). We'll see what happens. Apple was lucky so far (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/09/25/european_union_ends_antitrust_investigations_of_apple.html), but next time may be different.
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Ouch, no way to dual-boot either, I guess?
I can dual boot windows with "boot camp" on my mac, but you can't boot mac from your windows.
Actually you can, but you would violate the license by installing Mac OS on a PC.
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I don't know what to say about them now...
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Ouch, no way to dual-boot either, I guess?
I can dual boot windows with "boot camp" on my mac, but you can't boot mac from your windows.
Actually you can, but you would violate the license by installing Mac OS on a PC.
Yeah, the license agreement says that OSX may only be installed on "Apple branded" hardware. It would be epic if someone installed OSX in vmware, running in a bootcamp installation of windows.