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Author Topic: Unlimited Detail!  (Read 6667 times)

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Offline Snake X

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Unlimited Detail!
« on: August 03, 2011, 09:51:50 am »


The end all of all graphics and graphical computation. Welcome to the most advanced computer graphics the world has ever known.

Spoiler For my thoughts:
I think its fake edit: real.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 12:06:22 pm by Snake X »
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Offline Michael_Lee

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2011, 10:27:23 am »
*shrug*

It could definitely be fake -- they're keeping everything 'secret', so we have no idea how it works.

Their website says that they should be releasing a demo in a few months, so I guess we'll see if they're really serious?
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Offline TIfanx1999

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2011, 10:30:27 am »
I'm generally skeptical about things, so I'll go with we'll have to see. It does look nice though. +1 for the intersting vid.

*Edit*: I'm also going to agree with what Ephan said below.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 10:31:48 am by Art_of_camelot »
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Offline Munchor

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2011, 10:30:39 am »
It can a be a fake, the word "unlimited" might be wrong, but it may be very very high.

I watched the video on 1080p on my TV and it's phenomenal, that I have to admit.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 10:30:59 am by ephan »
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Offline BlakPilar

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2011, 10:33:22 am »
I think it's possible.
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Offline Happybobjr

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2011, 10:38:23 am »
it looks like they have high graphic things just repeated everywhere.
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Offline yunhua98

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #6 on: August 03, 2011, 10:39:51 am »
The breakthrough is a little impossibly big, and their basically just using ever smaller Polygons, but they would really be screwed if this was fake, so I voted Yes.
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Offline Munchor

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #7 on: August 03, 2011, 11:01:45 am »
Quote from: yunhua98 on August 03, 2011, 10:39:51 am
The breakthrough is a little impossibly big, and their basically just using ever smaller Polygons, but they would really be screwed if this was fake, so I voted Yes.

Oh I just saw the poll, and for the same reasons I voted yes.
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Offline Runer112

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2011, 11:37:24 am »
The technology is very real, and this company isn't the only one experimenting with it. The only reason the videos this company is releasing make it seem unreal is because they never state the downsides of their rendering engine. To name a few:

  • Models built with voxels instead of polygons are incredibly large. If everything you saw in that video had the data density that they claimed, it would probably take up many terabytes, if not petabytes, of storage.
  • Following from the first point, they probably get around this by using repeated structures, and lots of them. If you look at the wide, sweeping views, you'll see what I mean. The world looks like a big tilemap. I think the wilderness of a game like Oblivion looks much more realistic and is more immersive than this, and I wouldn't be surprised if Oblivion's landscape takes up a fraction of the storage space as well.
  • Repeated structures cannot have individual entities be easily rotated, scaled, or otherwise modified, so they'll all look exactly alike. Which largely explains why the tilemapped landscape looks as bland as could possibly be.
  • Do you see any animated entities? I do not, and this seems like a big flaw. Animating polygons is easy and just consists of moving a few hundred points along paths. But animating a few million points along paths? This is something that the rendering engine, no matter how powerful, can assist with.


This is a very interesting technology and I cannot question that it produces astounding graphics. But in its current state, it has a few large problems that haven't been solved, so I don't think it's ready for use in real products yet. My hat goes off to the first company to make an immserive landscape like that of Oblivion (my favorite game ever if you haven't guessed yet) using voxels that contains less than 25GB or so of data.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 11:50:25 am by Runer112 »
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Offline yunhua98

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2011, 11:39:45 am »
well, that clears things up.  ;)
I'll stick with polygon games for now then.  :P

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Offline Lionel Debroux

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2011, 11:45:54 am »
I noticed a discussion on that topic in http://pouet.net/topic.php?which=7295 .
None of the famous demo makers I recognized in the posters' names (gloom, Navis, Gargaj, rasmus, maytz and smash, but there are certainly more) is convinced about the applicability of the "Unlimited Detail" technology to realistic usage with e.g. dynamic terrain, lighting (as opposed to the kind of highly repetitive and completely static data without lighting shown by the "Unlimited Detail" video), i.e. usage in modern video games.
This is not to say that the "Unlimited Detail" technology is fake - just that it has limited applicability (repetitive, static data).

EDIT: yeah, completely agree with Runer's post, which was written during the time I read on Pouet.net and posted my post.
EDIT2: added another famous demo maker.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 12:01:01 pm by Lionel Debroux »
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Offline AngelFish

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2011, 11:46:46 am »
Quote from: Snake X on August 03, 2011, 09:51:50 am

The end all of all graphics and graphical computation. Welcome to the most advanced computer graphics the world has ever known.

Runer is right. It's possible, but there are some pretty big downsides. It's nowhere near the ultimate graphics technology and I doubt it will even displace current methods in a lot of applications.

For one thing, you're dealing with so many discrete points, you can never hope to apply things globally. Sorry, but computers aren't fast enough now or in the foreseeable future to apply rules to trillions of points multiple times a second. Secondly, the "unlimited detail" method doesn't allow animations. It's too slow for that. Thirdly, there is a ton of repetition in that model. If each point were discrete, the resulting map would literally take petabytes of data. For comparison, a low to medium resolution polygon mesh over that same area takes somewhere between 120 MB and 1 GB.

So, it's probably real, but remarkably useless.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 11:49:56 am by Qwerty.55 »
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Offline Snake X

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2011, 12:05:14 pm »
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/8423008802/but-notch-its-not-a-scam

This is what Notch has to say about the technology.. he thinks its a scam ;_;
« Last Edit: August 03, 2011, 12:05:28 pm by Snake X »
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Offline ben_g

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2011, 02:29:14 pm »
this can be real, but it's almost impossible to make a game which can fit on any portable storage device with a realistic world in such high detail. You'll need very powerful compression techniques to put what's seen in the video on a DVD. It's possible, but until we can easly store large amounts of data on a computer, it's very unpractical.
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Offline Happybobjr

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Re: Unlimited Detail!
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2011, 04:26:25 pm »
you can't get real life quality, as the computers are in real life.
To me it is like building a computer in Minecraft, and having it as fast as the one it is running on.
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