Omnimaga

General Discussion => Technology and Development => Other => Topic started by: Snake X on June 15, 2011, 10:05:03 am

Title: Windows 8
Post by: Snake X on June 15, 2011, 10:05:03 am
Well, it's (not too far away) that yet again Microsoft will be dishing out its latest os, windows 8. Is it just A addon to windows 7 like windows 7 to vista? No. This is a COMPLETELY redone operating system, and built from the ground up for none other than tablets. However, this does not mean it will become an android/iOS like operating system. No, this os still has the regular old functions, tied in with a completely new GUI and optimized for tablets, however still maintaining great for non-tablet PC's. This system is not only the newest os for intel/amd fans, but now they are rolling out the ARM version SoC (System on a Chip). What does this mean? I have no idea ;D. But nonetheless, this will be able to produce smaller processors that are not only more energy efficient, but cost effective as well, with better performance.

Check out the Windows 8 event here:



Also we should be seeing a Dell windows 8 laptop in Q1 of 2012.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: aeTIos on June 15, 2011, 10:06:34 am
EPIC.Knowing MS, they are maybe also creating a tablet PC. which is always epic.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Snake X on June 15, 2011, 10:07:22 am
yes, there are rumers of Microsoft creating their own tablet's as well. More on the dell tablet, price is around $300 for the wifi model
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: aeTIos on June 15, 2011, 10:08:07 am
not too high price, nice!
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 15, 2011, 10:10:59 am
This seems good, but can it beat Android? I don't know :/
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Snake X on June 15, 2011, 10:14:35 am
I would say so, because of its responsiveness, 'snap' feature (seems to work very well) and the app sharing feature. Not to mention how quickly you can switch apps and all that. All of those thinks are explained and demonstrated in the event if you want to take the time to watch the youtube video :)
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 15, 2011, 11:03:14 am
If it is just for tablets, then I don't have any real interest. I'm happy with my laptop and PC, and I have a cellphone as well.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Hayleia on June 15, 2011, 11:06:54 am
I voted no: what does a tablet do ?
Games: my calc does it ;D. Internet: my calc does it  ;D(thx KM).
The rest has no interest.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TC01 on June 15, 2011, 12:02:53 pm
I'm a little disturbed about what is known about Windows 8 so far. To try and be concise about this, since we don't know everything yet: my two main concerns are Windows 8 on desktops/laptops and development.

This (http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars) sums up my issues with development for Windows 8 quite nicely- it's primarily a lack of information and communication from Microsoft.

My concern with Windows 8 on desktops? I think the Metro-style UI is quite nice for tablets, but I can't imagine using it on a desktop or laptop. Yes, there is a Windows 7 desktop available, but the key question in my mind would be: is the Windows 8 UI intended as an alternative or as a replacement? If it's intended as a touch-focused alternative, with the Windows 7 UI (or not necessarily that but a more conventional desktop), I don't really have a problem. But if it's intended as a replacement... I don't see myself using that sort of UI with a keyboard and mouse, especially not for more complex applications like an IDE, word processor, and so on.

I don't really see the value of a tablet as opposed to a laptop for someone like myself. If I were to consider one, I'd pick up an Android tablet over this, but I don't know enough about Windows 8 to make an informed decision yet, though.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 15, 2011, 12:13:56 pm
I'm a little disturbed about what is known about Windows 8 so far. To try and be concise about this, since we don't know everything yet: my two main concerns are Windows 8 on desktops/laptops and development.

This (http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars) sums up my issues with development for Windows 8 quite nicely- it's primarily a lack of information and communication from Microsoft.

My concern with Windows 8 on desktops? I think the Metro-style UI is quite nice for tablets, but I can't imagine using it on a desktop or laptop. Yes, there is a Windows 7 desktop available, but the key question in my mind would be: is the Windows 8 UI intended as an alternative or as a replacement? If it's intended as a touch-focused alternative, with the Windows 7 UI (or not necessarily that but a more conventional desktop), I don't really have a problem. But if it's intended as a replacement... I don't see myself using that sort of UI with a keyboard and mouse, especially not for more complex applications like an IDE, word processor, and so on.

I don't really see the value of a tablet as opposed to a laptop for someone like myself. If I were to consider one, I'd pick up an Android tablet over this, but I don't know enough about Windows 8 to make an informed decision yet, though.

HTML 5 and Javascript apps only? Oh that sucks :P

Android++
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Spyro543 on June 15, 2011, 12:32:15 pm
THAT IS AWESOME. (How do you close out of apps?)
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Juju on June 15, 2011, 12:33:45 pm
Hm, seems it's the current trend, redesigning the UI of a desktop OS so it's optimized for small devices such as tablets and netbooks. Hope they won't do like Ubuntu, many people hate Unity because of that. And I see this from here: many people gonna hate Windows 8 because they changed everything.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Keoni29 on June 15, 2011, 12:37:17 pm
I don't want my pc to be a smartphone D:
"There are no windowed, but screen filling applications." Sow... Why is it called windows again?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 15, 2011, 12:37:44 pm
THAT IS AWESOME. (How do you close out of apps?)

What's awesome about it? I can't see it :P This is yet another tablet, like Android or iPad or HP, or Blackberry. I think the design looks gorgeous though, but that's all they invested in :P
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Juju on June 15, 2011, 12:41:18 pm
I don't want my pc to be a smartphone D:
"There are no windowed, but screen filling applications." Sow... Why is it called windows again?
Lol. They are already failing here. Haters gonna hate just because of this.

And how will Windows 8 Professional look like? I hardly imagine workplaces or even servers using this UI. Hope they won't kill these good ol' windows, or else Windows won't be Windows.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Keoni29 on June 15, 2011, 12:47:34 pm
Does windows 9 support mind controll?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Snake X on June 15, 2011, 01:53:08 pm
I'm a little disturbed about what is known about Windows 8 so far. To try and be concise about this, since we don't know everything yet: my two main concerns are Windows 8 on desktops/laptops and development.

This (http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/html5-centric-windows-8-leaves-microsoft-developers-horrified.ars) sums up my issues with development for Windows 8 quite nicely- it's primarily a lack of information and communication from Microsoft.

My concern with Windows 8 on desktops? I think the Metro-style UI is quite nice for tablets, but I can't imagine using it on a desktop or laptop. Yes, there is a Windows 7 desktop available, but the key question in my mind would be: is the Windows 8 UI intended as an alternative or as a replacement? If it's intended as a touch-focused alternative, with the Windows 7 UI (or not necessarily that but a more conventional desktop), I don't really have a problem. But if it's intended as a replacement... I don't see myself using that sort of UI with a keyboard and mouse, especially not for more complex applications like an IDE, word processor, and so on.

I don't really see the value of a tablet as opposed to a laptop for someone like myself. If I were to consider one, I'd pick up an Android tablet over this, but I don't know enough about Windows 8 to make an informed decision yet, though.

HTML 5 and Javascript apps only? Oh that sucks :P

Android++

Yes, you can see that this is just an alternative really for the tablets. Tablet's are really for people who want to surf the web, do email, watch movies, and that sort of stuff.. like an entertainment device. With a touch screen. Also, yeah I would not like to upgrade my $1500 gaming rig to a tablet-optimized OS, so I think its safe to say that your better off getting a tablet with OS 8 on it. The GUI is much simpler than that of android being that the apps are there instantly, and no 'icons' so to speak. I think that windows 8 is an ingenious design for this market and I think that it will be a great success for those who seek the tablet market. Something this can do that the Android doesn't very elegantly is true side-by-side apps. But what do I know? I haven't played with side-by-side apps on android. Maybe it's better on it? Android is a wonderful os upon itself but I think that windows 8 might be a serious competitor because of the engineering they put into it and also not to mention how there is still the classic desktop available, something that lacks on all android/iOS touch devices. I also plan to buy the 'dell peju' tablet supposedly for $300 with wifi.

And scout, dont forget CSS. Also, just because these are only developed with these languages, doesn't mean that they are necessairly arn't good. Take a look at what google did with their logo that one day when they made the balls bouncy and when you put your courser near the balls they moved away from it. That was (to some people) very fun, and (others hated it).
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: z80man on June 15, 2011, 02:26:32 pm
I'm still a little concerned about this. I happen to have a quite powerful desktop computer that I use for gaming. Unless Windows 8 proves to show greater performance then Windows 7 I won't upgrade. I find this unlikely as Windows 7 was the first Microsoft OS ever to have greater performance than its predecessor. But there is the possibility with this OS being optimized for lower power PC's that performance might be increased. I really don't care for all the fancy UI features that Vista brought in and were luckily dropped when 7 came out. It appears that Windows 8 will also hopefully lower the UI appearance in order to allow lower end PC's run the OS. My last concern I have with Windows 8 is that there appears to be no big technical advantage. Windows Vista allowed Directx 10.0 which only the most recent games use and Windows 7 allowed Directx 11.0 which even fewer games use. I don't see any Directx 12.0 yet nor any other major advances in the OS.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 15, 2011, 03:04:49 pm
So, my question is if this is geared primarily for tablets, why the hell are they calling it Windows 8? That suggests that it is a direct upgrade/follow-up to Windows 7. Wouldn't calling it something like Windows Tablet Edition make more sense and be less confusing? ??? I also find it strange that a Windows based OS won't be using windows for the GUI.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Snake X on June 15, 2011, 05:12:22 pm
Z80, keep in mind that the main focus is for the tablet users and with such, there is the advancement of compatibility and battery life, so that is taken into major account. I Completely agree with you when you say that you wouldn't upgrade your pc desktop to windows 8, I'm not going to do it myself. However, dont you think that it's time the tablet user's get some attention? The marketshare is really taking off now with the asus transformer, hp slate, samsung slider series, xoom, playbook, g-slate, and more coming out so recently. so microsoft is doing their part in it to catch up with everyone.

edit:
Wouldn't calling it something like Windows Tablet Edition make more sense and be less confusing?

Well, yeah, I agree with you on that one.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 15, 2011, 05:19:58 pm


3:08 might be explanatory

Well, this means the windows for tablets OS and the computer windows is the same, meaning it's HUGE, right?

Old Windows is also included, they have 2 in 1.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 15, 2011, 05:29:04 pm
It looks like this is intended to be the successor to Windows 7. For a tablet, it looks fine. But for a PC pr laptop? That is a giant DO NOT WANT. I REALLY dislike the idea of that on a PC or a laptop.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: AngelFish on June 15, 2011, 05:31:36 pm
I find it strange that they're rebuilding an entire OS when they have the nice Windows CE line, which already supports ARM and many other platforms besides. Plus, developers are already used to writing for CE, since it's well documented. Furthermore, it's optimized specifically for less powerful devices like tablets.

Anyway, I won't be buying a tablet because I don't have a reason to. I want to be able to do more with my computer than check my e-mail.

EDIT: As for HTML/Javascript/CSS, good luck writing non-trivial programs in that, such as the HTML/CSS parser that Firefox uses (written in C). HTML and CSS technically aren't even programming languages, so if that source is correct, then the only real language available will be the mess that is Javascript.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TC01 on June 15, 2011, 05:31:58 pm
Yes, you can see that this is just an alternative really for the tablets. Tablet's are really for people who want to surf the web, do email, watch movies, and that sort of stuff.. like an entertainment device. With a touch screen. Also, yeah I would not like to upgrade my $1500 gaming rig to a tablet-optimized OS, so I think its safe to say that your better off getting a tablet with OS 8 on it. The GUI is much simpler than that of android being that the apps are there instantly, and no 'icons' so to speak. I think that windows 8 is an ingenious design for this market and I think that it will be a great success for those who seek the tablet market. Something this can do that the Android doesn't very elegantly is true side-by-side apps. But what do I know? I haven't played with side-by-side apps on android. Maybe it's better on it? Android is a wonderful os upon itself but I think that windows 8 might be a serious competitor because of the engineering they put into it and also not to mention how there is still the classic desktop available, something that lacks on all android/iOS touch devices. I also plan to buy the 'dell peju' tablet supposedly for $300 with wifi.

I don't disagree with you that a tablet is good for some people, just that I personally don't want it. It looks to be a nice tablet OS that could seriously compete with Android and iOS. I don't know that the Windows 7 desktop adds much to the tablet experience- it's clunky to use with touch- but all in all Windows 8 seems nice for tablets.

It's Windows 8 running on desktops that I have concerns about.

Quote
And scout, dont forget CSS. Also, just because these are only developed with these languages, doesn't mean that they are necessairly arn't good. Take a look at what google did with their logo that one day when they made the balls bouncy and when you put your courser near the balls they moved away from it. That was (to some people) very fun, and (others hated it).

That's not really what I was getting at (don't know about Scout). It's not that you can't have good applications developed through nothing but HTML5, JS, and CSS- it's that it severely limits the possibilities for application developers. I get that a lot of people know HTML/CSS/JS: what about those who don't, but know some other language that they use to write Windows software? What about those who do but prefer not to use them?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 15, 2011, 05:32:00 pm
It looks like this is intended to be the successor to Windows 7. For a tablet, it looks fine. But for a PC pr laptop? That is a giant DO NOT WANT. I REALLY dislike the idea of that on a PC or a laptop.

It's just like Windows 7, but +++++++++++++++ a Tablet OS, so basically you pay for one OS and you get two. However, that sucks in this context.

I find it strange that they're rebuilding an entire OS when they have the nice Windows CE line, which already supports ARM and many other platforms besides. Plus, developers are already used to writing for CE, since it's well documented. Furthermore, it's optimized specifically for less powerful devices like tablets.

Anyway, I won't be buying a tablet because I don't have a reason to. I want to be able to do more with my computer than check my e-mail.

Did you see the video I posted in the minute I posted?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: AngelFish on June 15, 2011, 05:35:25 pm
Nope, my bandwidth is dying :/
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Ashbad on June 15, 2011, 05:37:08 pm
Microsoft can only go downhill from this.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: ralphdspam on June 15, 2011, 05:38:22 pm
They're trying too hard to be Apple.  :\
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TC01 on June 15, 2011, 05:38:57 pm
Since I just posted it on IRC, I might as well link it here. This article (http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/06/microsoft-gives-the-first-official-look-of-windows-8-touch-interface.ars) has the video Scout linked above, and talks a bit about it.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: AngelFish on June 15, 2011, 05:41:43 pm
Okay, I watched the video and all I can say is that it doesn't answer my question in the least: Why did Microsoft choose not to extend the well developed, debugged, supported, documented and accepted version of their OS developed specifically for low power systems and instead try to build an OS for all computers (which is pretty much doomed to fail)?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 15, 2011, 05:44:51 pm
Okay, I watched the video and all I can say is that it doesn't answer my question in the least: Why did Microsoft choose not to extend the well developed, debugged, supported, documented and accepted version of their OS developed specifically for low power systems and instead try to build an OS for all computers (which is pretty much doomed to fail)?

To make it support all computers, I guess they want that.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 15, 2011, 05:45:00 pm
It looks like they are attempting an all inclusive rebranding of Windows. More info is needed, but this is what I see just looking at the short video Scout posted. :/
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: ralphdspam on June 15, 2011, 05:50:15 pm
It seems really awkward to have that new interface side by side with the old (tested and perfected) UI.  I thought Media Center was bland and useless, but this seems like taking Media Center, iOS, and Windows 7 and smashing them all together. 

But then again, it could be the best thing since sliced bread.  It is a little too early to draw large conclusions.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Deep Toaster on June 15, 2011, 05:54:12 pm
I heard Windows 8 will support live CDs O.O

And this is one popular thread. Last thirteen posts reported by SpyBot (now 14) were all from here :crazy:
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Netham45 on June 15, 2011, 06:08:17 pm
They're developing this more for tablets than phones.

Also, the reason they scrapped WiMO is because it was based off of outdated NT4 code, and lacked low-level support for quite a few devices and features(such as multi-touch, for one.)

And the UI is switchable, classic or metro-ui.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 15, 2011, 06:51:47 pm
And the UI is switchable, classic or metro-ui.

That at least is good news. Hopefully classic is the default.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Netham45 on June 15, 2011, 07:32:31 pm
Also, voting 'Other' for the poll, I'ma install it on my existing android tablet. `-`
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 16, 2011, 12:41:31 am
I hope it will not be overly expensive like Mac stuff.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Snake X on June 16, 2011, 09:50:08 am
I'm pretty sure that it's not going to be.. well.. See the thing about mac stuff, the iPad is actually half-reasonably priced at $500 for what it can do.. and *only* at that price point because you can see with like the asus transformer being the same price for a keyboard and the tablet itself. Yeah it's not gonna be really badly priced, 99% sure. Also guys, this is a reply for page 2:

This. Is. A. TABLET. OS. created. FOR. Tablets.

You don't have to bash it for being that way, they are only looking at a different spectrum of the pc realm, something that is important so that all the other guys can be happy.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Spyro543 on June 16, 2011, 08:46:57 pm
It can't run EXEs in normal Windows 7 desktop mode, can it?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Broseph Radson on June 16, 2011, 09:30:15 pm
It should. The guy had word running on it.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Deep Toaster on June 17, 2011, 12:55:22 am
This. Is. A. TABLET. OS. created. FOR. Tablets.

So the tablet side is now more important to them than PCs? O.O Or was this meant to be an OS for tablets only?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Netham45 on June 17, 2011, 01:01:15 am
This is a -DESKTOP- OS that has TABLET support. The desktop still runs just fine.

The tablet will not run desktop EXEs, because it is ARM-based.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 17, 2011, 03:33:14 am
I'm pretty sure that it's not going to be.. well.. See the thing about mac stuff, the iPad is actually half-reasonably priced at $500 for what it can do.. and *only* at that price point because you can see with like the asus transformer being the same price for a keyboard and the tablet itself. Yeah it's not gonna be really badly priced, 99% sure. Also guys, this is a reply for page 2:

This. Is. A. TABLET. OS. created. FOR. Tablets.

You don't have to bash it for being that way, they are only looking at a different spectrum of the pc realm, something that is important so that all the other guys can be happy.

I wouldn't exactly call $500 reasonable for a limited function tablet when I can spend that same $500 and get a pretty kickass laptop. Just my opinion.

Also:
This is a -DESKTOP- OS that has TABLET support. The desktop still runs just fine.

The tablet will not run desktop EXEs, because it is ARM-based.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Snake X on June 17, 2011, 08:50:14 am
well remember, there's a big difference in touch screen and non-touch screen AOC.

At deep thought: well, right now the technology that is really taking off now is the tablet industry (hence all the new android tablets and playbook) and microsoft is playing catch-up.

If you buy a non-arm tablet with windows 8, it should be able to run all your desktop apps fine. On arm.. you might be able to dual boot with the nspire OS XD

@ netham: Not just 'has tablet support', its built from the ground up for tablets and optimized for tablets. I'm not trying to say this in a mean tone in any way.

edit: then again.. I see what your saying because it is supposed to be the successor to windows 7 and all.. though still....
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: TC01 on June 17, 2011, 11:19:29 am
Perhaps this would say it better:

This is an OS intended for both desktops and tablets. The OS has been re-optimized for tablets and most of the new features in the OS are focused at tablets, but is nevertheless intended to be the main Windows OS running on desktops.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Snake X on June 17, 2011, 04:26:20 pm
well said.

edit: err.. sorry for the 2 worded post
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Netham45 on June 17, 2011, 07:13:15 pm
It's not built from the ground up, it has a new UI that was partially built from the ground up(and relies totally on IE10, which I am honestly afraid of).
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Snake X on June 17, 2011, 07:31:53 pm
well, im just going on what they said in the press conference. Also yea, I agree about the IE10 part
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 17, 2011, 07:37:04 pm
This. Is. A. TABLET. OS. created. FOR. Tablets.

So the tablet side is now more important to them than PCs? O.O Or was this meant to be an OS for tablets only?

Deep Though and Snake X, I posted a video that answers your questions.

You can find it here (http://ourl.ca/11589/219641).

What happens is this is an OS that works for both tablets and PCs. Got it? It's quite simple to understand.

I highly think though that they'll release different builds to avoid a huge size OS.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Deep Toaster on June 17, 2011, 10:35:51 pm
Tablets and desktops are very different though. I saw that vid already, and that's partly why I think they're starting to put the tablet UI ahead of the classic one. It looks more like a native tablet OS than a comp one.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Netham45 on June 17, 2011, 10:43:36 pm
I highly think though that they'll release different builds to avoid a huge size OS.

If it's anything like the leaked builds, you'll be able to toggle it.
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 19, 2011, 12:43:30 pm
Tablets and desktops are very different though. I saw that vid already, and that's partly why I think they're starting to put the tablet UI ahead of the classic one. It looks more like a native tablet OS than a comp one.

The Computer Version of Windows 8 didn't remind me of tablets, can you explain your point?
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: fb39ca4 on June 19, 2011, 12:47:03 pm
I wonder if they are finally going to drop 32 bit support now? (I mean for PCs, not tablets)
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 20, 2011, 08:39:25 am
Quote
"Microsoft is obviously trying to learn from Apple, but they clearly don't understand why the iPad runs iOS, and not Mac OS X."
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Spyro543 on June 20, 2011, 09:47:56 am
Now I think that an OS that would work for both tablets and computers would be UNR 10.10, but that's just my opinion ;)
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Deep Toaster on June 20, 2011, 02:20:48 pm
Quote
"Microsoft is obviously trying to learn from Apple, but they clearly don't understand why the iPad runs iOS, and not Mac OS X."

++

Now I think that an OS that would work for both tablets and computers would be UNR 10.10, but that's just my opinion ;)

I think Unity's just a couple steps away from being an awesome tablet OS. I mean you can already drag the dock around and everything!
Title: Re: Windows 8
Post by: Munchor on June 20, 2011, 03:38:57 pm
Now I think that an OS that would work for both tablets and computers would be UNR 10.10, but that's just my opinion ;)

I think Unity's just a couple steps away from being an awesome tablet OS. I mean you can already drag the dock around and everything!

Dragging the Dock around? I don't really care about that, I care about the search and the apps and the stuff, Unity is indeed a good example for a Table OS. As long as it runs C/C++ Programs as Apps :)