Omnimaga
Omnimaga => Completed => Our Projects => Hot Dog's TI-83+ Z80 ASM for the Absolute Beginner => Topic started by: Hot_Dog on March 06, 2011, 04:29:30 pm
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There have been a lot of people that have asked me why I choose to use .org 40339 to start ASM programs in my lessons. I wrote this up because I hope that people who read it will understand why, even if they themselves don't like it.
I know that most of the time, RAM addresses are stated as hexadecimal, and indeed, when hexadecimal is introduced in my ASM lessons, I switch to .org $9D93.
But is it absolutely necessary? Will the universe or the person's calculator explode if I use 40339? These lessons are for the absolute beginner! BEGINNER! Why on earth does it matter whether I use hexadecimal or decimal at the beginning? Let me repharse: why am I making a big deal out of this?
Well, do you know why my lessons are successful? Because I expalin to people exactly how everything works and I make it easy for them. Read my third lesson on RAM addresses, where I explain and help people understand what ram addresses are. Then ask yourself: Which is easier to understand, that the ASM program starts at the 40339th byte of the calculator? Or that the ASM program starts at the 9D93th byte? When I show what compiled ASM programs look like, is it easier for a beginner to count in decimal, or in hexadecimal?
You can disagree with me as much as you want, but if you read this, please don't bug me on the "method to my madness." No hard feelings, but I just hear it so many times that I start to feel like I'm an idiot for not "following the rules." Whatever the case, my lessons have not lost popularity from choosing to use decimal numbers.
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I actually like that style. I up-rated your post, but I think it could have been done slightly nicer. When you say this, it makes you seem like an expert on everything. (Granted, you might just be.) Anyway, I would just say something along the lines of $9D95 would work too, but we'll get to that later. I love concepts that build up, because it reinforces and gives use to the knowledge you have.
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I up-rated your post, but I think it could have been done slightly nicer. When you say this, it makes you seem like an expert on everything.
Interesting. Yeah, it could be nicer, and I knew it even while I was typing it up. But it's not me seeming liking an expert. It's frustration because everyone's telling me "No, you need to do it this way!" as if THEY are experts on everything.
EDIT: Thanks for pointing this out, though, because I tried to be a good sport, and I know now that I wasn't
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I up-rated your post, but I think it could have been done slightly nicer. When you say this, it makes you seem like an expert on everything.
Interesting. Yeah, it could be nicer, and I knew it even while I was typing it up. But it's not me seeming liking an expert. It's frustration because everyone's telling me "No, you need to do it this way!" as if THEY are experts on everything.
oh, I totally understand. 9D95 is just easy to learn methinks. Instead of 40339. (Wait, I just memorized it in like 2 seconds, hey, look at that). I think a lot of ASM programmers mentalities are "we'll tell you this, and you'll just go with it, but we'll explain it later".
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Anyway, yeah. I think I'm gonna change my avatar, the thing is starting to freak me out. ;-)
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I'm in the $9D95 camp. I just feel everything works out better for everyone if we use the accepted and widely-held convention of hex for addresses. :) No hard feelings that you disagree.
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I'm in the $9D95 camp. I just feel everything works out better for everyone if we use the accepted and widely-held convention of hex for addresses. :) No hard feelings that you disagree.
Hmmm, you have a point, because when people ask for help it is easier for people they ask to see $9D95. I think I'll make a note of that in Tutorial 4
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These tutorials are yours, and you are free to do what you want. However, my opinion is that decimal has little place in assembly, and no place whatsoever when referring to addresses. Do what you like with your tutorials, but the standard is hexadecimal.
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I've had several users ask me for help, and be confused that I wrote .org $9d95, and mention that they also saw the $9D95 in lots of example code and don't understand it. I would definitely advise that, although as you said, if you don't want to change your tutorials, that's your perogative.
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By the way, thank you all for your comments and for listening to my side of the story, and I apologize if I offended anyone
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Well, I suggest to begin with .org 40339, then explaining thing about the 40339 byte, then switch to hex, explaining everyone uses hex because it's easier, while explaining hex, then never talk of the decimal form again.
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Well, I suggest to begin with .org 40339, then explaining thing about the 40339 byte, then switch to hex, explaining everyone uses hex because it's easier, while explaining hex, then never talk of the decimal form again.
This is a good idea - you can even introduce it with this:
So you're coding away, and you start noticing this weird thing in other people's ASM programs:
.org $9D95...and you're wondering - WHAT IS THIS WEIRD THING? WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?
Fortunately, you're doing nothing wrong - it's just .org $9D95 is the same as .org 40339! :)
This will definitely clear up any ASM beginner confusion :D
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Yeah, something like that. +1 for both of you
But I won't be able to do it immediately, sadly, I have a lot going on
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As an ASM learner (from your lessons), I don't mind if it starts with 40339 or $9D95. (But then I already knew Hex)
The person learning ASM can always substitute one for the other, like how I use bcall() instead of B_CALL.
EDIT: Woa, double Ninja'd
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Hot Dog, the topic title is a little... harsh, but I understand where you're coming from. I'd give you a +1 and a -1, so looks like I'm not doing anything. :-\
Well, I suggest to begin with .org 40339, then explaining thing about the 40339 byte, then switch to hex, explaining everyone uses hex because it's easier, while explaining hex, then never talk of the decimal form again.
This is a good idea - you can even introduce it with this:
So you're coding away, and you start noticing this weird thing in other people's ASM programs:
.org $9D95...and you're wondering - WHAT IS THIS WEIRD THING? WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?
Fortunately, you're doing nothing wrong - it's just .org $9D95 is the same as .org 40339! :)
This will definitely clear up any ASM beginner confusion :D
This is the way that I'd do it. ;)
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Well to be honest I negated one of the vote, since I felt it was kinda rude, especially if someone never asked before and is new, but I don't feel it deserves under +1 so if it was 0 I would probably have uprated it.
Personally it's your tutorials so you can do what you want with them. I agree with Juju's and Alberthro's idea, though. It might clear things up. If you use .org 40339, simply explain that other tutorials might use $9D95, but that's it's basically the same, just in hex.
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Well to be honest I negated one of the vote, since I felt it was kinda rude, especially if someone never asked before and is new, but I don't feel it deserves under +1 so if it was 0 I would probably have uprated it.
Actually, I didnt' feel that it even deserved +1
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Ah ok. Personally there was the rude side that didn't, but the other side where it's obviously annoying to get asked the same thing over and over despite the fact you wanted the tutorial that way. It was kinda like in 2004-05 when people kept bugging me non-stop asking "Why don't you learn ASM" and later "Why don't you use BasicBuilder?". In the ASM case it almost became harrassment.
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Ah ok. Personally there was the rude side that didn't, but the other side where it's obviously annoying to get asked the same thing over and over despite the fact you wanted the tutorial that way. It was kinda like in 2004-05 when people kept bugging me non-stop asking "Why don't you learn ASM" and later "Why don't you use BasicBuilder?". In the ASM case it almost became harrassment.
Good point.
Whatever the case, I really do appreciate it when you give me +1 whevenever you think about it ;D