Author Topic: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?  (Read 21339 times)

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Offline jsj795

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #30 on: April 25, 2010, 12:21:29 am »
I just printed out. I'll give the feedback ASAP!


Spoiler For funny life mathematics:
1. ROMANCE MATHEMATICS
Smart man + smart woman = romance
Smart man + dumb woman = affair
Dumb man + smart woman = marriage
Dumb man + dumb woman = pregnancy
2. OFFICE ARITHMETIC
Smart boss + smart employee = profit
Smart boss + dumb employee = production
Dumb boss + smart employee = promotion
Dumb boss + dumb employee = overtime
3. SHOPPING MATH
A man will pay $2 for a $1 item he needs.
A woman will pay $1 for a $2 item that she doesn't need.
4. GENERAL EQUATIONS & STATISTICS
A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband.
A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.
A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend.
A successful woman is one who can find such a man.
5. HAPPINESS
To be happy with a man, you must understand him a lot and love him a little.
To be happy with a woman, you must love her a lot and not try to understand her at all.
6. LONGEVITY
Married men live longer than single men do, but married men are a lot more willing to die.
7. PROPENSITY TO CHANGE
A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn't.
A man marries a woman expecting that she won't change, and she does.
8. DISCUSSION TECHNIQUE
A woman has the last word in any argument.
Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.

Girls = Time * Money (Girls are a combination of time and money)
Time = Money (Time is money)
Girls = Money squared (So, girls are money squared)
Money = sqrt(Evil) (Money is also the root of all evil)
Girls = sqrt(Evil) squared (So, girls are the root of all evil squared)
Girls = Evil (Thus, girls are evil)
*Girls=Evil credit goes to Compynerd255*

Offline Quigibo

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #31 on: April 25, 2010, 01:16:31 am »
I think the hardest part of learning asm is the shift in paradigm.  In my opinion, someone with very little programming background will be able to learn the language and understand it better initially than someone who has exclusively programmed in higher level languages their whole lives.  I remember the concept of flags, registers, unsigned arithmetic, bit shifting, etc.  seemed so foreign to me when I was first learning.  You never cover that stuff in high level.  In my head I kept trying to make my code look and feel like the languages I was used to so then it would all be simple and I could just naturally pick it up.  But you can't do that, its impossible.  You miss all the concepts that are absolutely essential to do all the low level tasks which is the whole point.

You have to start with a very open mind.  Your knowledge of how to ride a bike isn't going to help you much when you're trying to fly a helicopter.  It took me about a whole summer to get the hang of it and it was almost a year before I could write a game with it.

Can you explain that?  Are you saying I should not talk to people with the idea of Ti-Basic, assuming that they know that language?  Otherwise, what do you mean?

Yeah that's the general suggestion I'm making.  It wasn't in response to the lesson you posted, I haven't read it yet, I was just giving my personal experience.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 01:17:37 am by Quigibo »
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Offline Hot_Dog

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #32 on: April 25, 2010, 01:17:43 am »
I think the hardest part of learning asm is the shift in paradigm.  In my opinion, someone with very little programming background will be able to learn the language and understand it better initially than someone who has exclusively programmed in higher level languages their whole lives.  I remember the concept of flags, registers, unsigned arithmetic, bit shifting, etc.  seemed so foreign to me when I was first learning.  You never cover that stuff in high level.  In my head I kept trying to make my code look and feel like the languages I was used to so then it would all be simple and I could just naturally pick it up.  But you can't do that, its impossible.  You miss all the concepts that are absolutely essential to do all the low level tasks which is the whole point.

You have to start with a very open mind.  Your knowledge of how to ride a bike isn't going to help you much when you're trying to fly a helicopter.  It took me about a whole summer to get the hang of it and it was almost a year before I could write a game with it.

Can you explain that?  Are you saying I should not talk to people with the idea of Ti-Basic, assuming that they know that language?  Otherwise, what do you mean?

Yeah its just a general suggestion I'm making.  It wasn't in response to the lesson you posted, I haven't read it yet, I was just giving my personal experience.

Thanks for explaining!  Now that I understand, I appreciate the suggestion.
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Offline mapar007

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #33 on: April 25, 2010, 01:27:18 am »
I'll give some feedback, if I'm allowed to :P

The first lesson is a great introduction. Quick revision of binary, introduction to variables etc etc. The only thing that seemed a bit strange to me, was the introduction to sprites. IMO it's better to put that in the appropriate context. (graphics lessons)

Offline Hot_Dog

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2010, 01:31:37 am »
I'll give some feedback, if I'm allowed to :P

The first lesson is a great introduction. Quick revision of binary, introduction to variables etc etc. The only thing that seemed a bit strange to me, was the introduction to sprites. IMO it's better to put that in the appropriate context. (graphics lessons)

Agreed.  Is there another example I can use describing the importance of understand binary numbers so I can avoid the sprite example?  (It wasn't an introduction to sprites as much as describing the importance of understanding binary)  Like I said, I'm polling for all this feedback so I can right better lessons in the feature
There are people who can speak two languages, and they are called bilingual.  There are people who speak three languages and are therefore trilingual.  Then there are people who speak one language, and these people are called Americans.


Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2010, 01:36:23 am »
you could always just do a small reference to sprites in lesson 1 for binary, but keep the details later.

In overall it seems quite well written and I like the different approach.
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Offline mapar007

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2010, 01:39:22 am »
Maybe you could just state that 1 is 'current' and 0 is 'no current', then explain that there are no 'other' possibilities, and therefore, numbers must be composed of 0 and 1.
Also, you could introduce hexadecimal as well, and add arithmetic exercises for both.

Just suggesting. Probably better to wait for someone else to comment, since I'm biased.

Offline theUnnamed

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #37 on: April 25, 2010, 12:11:35 pm »
ASM is fun I toke a class and learn MIPS asm.  Working with it taught me how much overhead there is to common operations. I think every programmer at one time or another should write a call stack with frame pointer, a dynamic memory manager and some simple programs just to understand the costs of the operations you do all the time. ;)
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 12:12:34 pm by theUnnamed »

Offline Hot_Dog

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #38 on: April 25, 2010, 12:25:17 pm »
Quote
I think every programmer at one time or another should write a call stack with frame pointer, a dynamic memory manager and some simple programs just to understand the costs of the operations you do all the time.

Please, don't scare away the customers I'm trying to attract!  :D
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #39 on: April 25, 2010, 12:29:49 pm »
Yeah everyone has to understand not everyone can learn the same way, else it is pretty narrow-minded IMHO.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF



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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2010, 01:15:49 pm »
I think this is an awesome idea Hot Dog!  ;D
I really like the idea, as I have a mildly good grasp of the basics of Asm, but I don't consider that I know it or feel comfortable using it.  I really would like a guide like this, and would read all of it.  I'm downloading lesson one now.  Thanks Hot Dog! ;D

Offline Madskillz

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2010, 04:46:38 pm »
Maybe you could just state that 1 is 'current' and 0 is 'no current', then explain that there are no 'other' possibilities, and therefore, numbers must be composed of 0 and 1.
Also, you could introduce hexadecimal as well, and add arithmetic exercises for both.
-I agree, I say you show some of the arithmetic things that you can do. Keep them brief and simple. Describe what the 1 and 0 represent and that they can correspond to graphics, but you'll touch on that later. I would say you devote a lesson discussing hexadecimal, decimal, binary conversion and perhaps the reasoning behind why you would use such things.


Offline Galandros

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2010, 04:59:17 pm »
Yes, a lesson about number system is needed in an assembly tutorial.

And one thing they rarely tell is why hexadecimal is used. Decimal is used because it is the number system common people learn and know, this is somewhat obvious. Binary because that it is the number system that a computer uses, this one too. (memory and registers are just lots of bits with 0's or 1's)
But hexadecimal is used, in my opinion (and no one told me so correct me or complete me if it needs), because provide a short way to represent 8-bits with 1 digit and is easy to convert between hexadecimal and binary. And not hard either to convert to decimal.

I wish less teachers, tutorials or books say you require to learn something because you need to what is next. Knowing why are you learning something, can be important to really understand what you are learning and keep you motivated.
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Offline Hot_Dog

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2010, 06:50:01 pm »

Quote
Describe what the 1 and 0 represent and that they can correspond to graphics, but you'll touch on that later. I would say you devote a lesson discussing hexadecimal, decimal, binary conversion and perhaps the reasoning behind why you would use such things.

Sounds good, will do

Quote
I wish less teachers, tutorials or books say you require to learn something because you need to what is next. Knowing why are you learning something, can be important to really understand what you are learning and keep you motivated.



Quote
I would say you devote a lesson discussing hexadecimal, decimal, binary conversion and perhaps the reasoning behind why you would use such things.



Which gets me asking: why is knowing conversion important?  I know how to convert from binary to decimal to hexadecimal, and yet I've rarely done it without a calculator.

Also, assuming it is necessary, can it be done in a later lesson?
« Last Edit: April 25, 2010, 06:52:15 pm by Hot_Dog »
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Offline Galandros

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Re: How Many People would want to learn ASM if they could?
« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2010, 07:15:14 pm »
Which gets me asking: why is knowing conversion important?  I know how to convert from binary to decimal to hexadecimal, and yet I've rarely done it without a calculator.

Also, assuming it is necessary, can it be done in a later lesson?
To convert numbers greater than 255 I always use a calculator. But is useful to convert quickly to understand code like this from mind:
 and $80 ; this bit masking is seen a bit
But this is also the kind of things you memorize with use. After a while you know $8 is %1000 which means the bit 3 is set.

So, yes, conversion is not that important. But is good to know why we are "complicating" using hexadecimal and binary instead of just decimal all the time.
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