Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 22, 2011, 08:22:35 pm
-First of all, after OS 3.0.2 caused a scandal with its Lua blocking and anti-downgrade protection, TI-BANK posted this news article (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1109). In summary, what it says is that many TI-BANK developers were recently contacted by Texas Instruments and that they would be allowed to beta-test a pre-release of a tool allowing people to create TNS files that includes Lua code. However, TI doesn't want them to tell any more information for now.
-Afterward, the TI-BANK team launched a new website called Inspired-Lua (http://www.inspired-lua.org/), meant to be a neutral reference for TI-Nspire Lua programming. It will include both French and English documentation. At this point, TI-BANK also revealed (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1110) extra informations regarding Lua and what TI told them: There is nothing confidential about Nspire Lua documentation and releasing tools generated with the beta-testers version of the tool discussed about would be allowed.
-Next, on Omnimaga, ExtendeD discovered a website (http://ourl.ca/11123) hosting a tool to generate Lua files, along with plenty of Lua samples for the TI-Nspire. Those files were apparently not meant to be made publicly available. The related page and files were taken down, but most tns samples remained online. It appeared that the samples might have been produced using an actual SDK, which is currently not available for the public.
-And today, TI has allowed them to host two of the Lua samples from there on TI-BANK (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1120), after TI-BANK team asked them permission.
It seems that TI could possibly be re-opening the door to third-party development on their calculators and it seems like there could be an official SDK at the horizon!
Here comes a new problem, though: Texas Instruments is a company and companies' main goal is to make money. Because of the growing interest towards Nspire development and the arrival of the TI-Nspire CX, could they be eventually attempting to put the Lua SDK for sale, trying to make money from TI community developers?
It seems very likely, because back in 1999, this is exactly what they did with the TI-83 Plus: First of all, a 8 KB executable code limit was added to 8xp assembly files, a limit that was not present in Flash applications (8xk). Secondly, the TI-83 Plus Flash Debugger (the name of the SDK) costed money. Basically, this meant that to create programs using more than 8 KB of executable code, you were pretty much forced to pay for TI's software (no, Crabcake did not exist back then, unfortunately)! As a result, most large ASM games like RPGs were severely limited in content and lenght and since the average calculator programmer still goes to school and have no way to buy softwares online, very few people in the TI community programmed Flash Applications.
Eventually, the SDK became free, but today, in this era of iDevices, gaming console online services and online software downloads, creating small application and games for those devices became very popular, and it could be very possible that TI decides to test this market with the TI-Nspire series in the future. The problem, though, is that if a TI-Nspire SDK was not free, then a lot of people in the TI community, especially Omnimaga, which got a younger userbase in general, would not even be able to grab it, as they would not have a credit card or even money to afford it, not to mention that not everyone might be willing to spend extra money to develop calculator games. Also, how much would such SDK cost? Knowing TI, I am quite worried that the price would be in the high hundreds of bucks...
If the SDK ever becomes a reality and becomes available for free or for any TI-Nspire owner, then a whole load of new possibilities will open for the TI community, even if it's not the full power of assembly and C. If it has a price, however, then I guess the community will still need to constantly fight new protections against third-party development tools.
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 22, 2011, 08:46:54 pm
Post by: ruler501 on May 22, 2011, 08:48:08 pm
I can only partially blame TI. they are a company after all. As long as they don't try to control the programs we make with the SDK when/if it is released.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 22, 2011, 08:50:40 pm
Post by: qazz42 on May 22, 2011, 09:10:04 pm
just wondering... I could write stuff if it is alike (during offtime, if any)
Post by: ruler501 on May 22, 2011, 09:12:25 pm
Hopefully TI will start caving in a lot more. Even though it really isn't caving in if its a paid SDK
Post by: ralphdspam on May 23, 2011, 12:35:58 am
Post by: aeTIos on May 23, 2011, 01:08:12 am
Post by: Lionel Debroux on May 23, 2011, 01:40:06 am
By the time TI releases anything, chances that the compression+encryption will be fully nullified, fully reimplemented independently, or both, are nonzero.
Post by: Jim Bauwens on May 23, 2011, 03:07:34 am
I'm starting to think that something happened at TI, maybe the pressure started to build up with all the negative stuff, and then the leaked documents. I hope they will become again more open to developers. And I think there is a good chance that that happens :)
Post by: Lionel Debroux on May 23, 2011, 03:13:41 am
Sure, it would be an excellent, if belated, thing... but remember, we've had a major testimony to the contrary this very week, with OS 3.0.2.
Post by: Dingus on May 23, 2011, 06:11:11 am
Post by: aeTIos on May 23, 2011, 07:49:55 am
Indeed!This. Would. Be. So. Awesome. Sigh... {Dreams about what would happen then}
I'm starting to think that something happened at TI, maybe the pressure started to build up with all the negative stuff, and then the leaked documents. I hope they will become again more open to developers. And I think there is a good chance that that happens :)
Post by: Netham45 on May 23, 2011, 08:21:54 am
I'm not sure what has motivated them to do this, but it's quite a radical departure from their track record as of late, I'd like to hope that it'd work out to be mutually beneficial.
If they've already released betas under the terms that they can give them out, I don't think that they'll be trying to charge for it either.
Can someone make a LUA script to make the LCD not suck?
Post by: JosJuice on May 23, 2011, 08:36:23 am
Can someone make a LUA script to make the LCD not suck?Nope. You can't even draw to 100% of the screen using Lua IIRC.
Post by: Netham45 on May 23, 2011, 08:48:11 am
Spoiler For Spoiler:
More reasonable, is there any way that the OS could be modded to discard all frames drawn within like 25ms of a previous frame?
Edit: obviously not through lua... I need to get some sleep.
Post by: ruler501 on May 23, 2011, 09:00:05 am
Post by: yunhua98 on May 23, 2011, 01:56:20 pm
Post by: coolrudski on May 23, 2011, 05:03:52 pm
Post by: BrownyTCat on May 23, 2011, 05:35:53 pm
I bet casio employees have infiltrated ti. :PThe RED Spy is in the base.
Post by: renatose on May 23, 2011, 09:31:38 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 23, 2011, 09:35:20 pm
If they did release the SDK, i am sure someone in the community will get their hands on it. And i mean if they are enterprising enough, one could always imitate and build a free SDK. i mean who knows how much protection they will have on it, but im sure one could get at it. Who knows maybe somebody could even create an API, and it works with Lua and the .Net framework. It would certainly make programming on the calculator a lot more mainstream and attract a lot of people to the communityI bet it will get cracked too, anyway. You'll check torrent sites and run into keygens and that crap. However the problem with that stuff is that most contain viruses so you need to watch out.
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 24, 2011, 05:37:24 am
I think we should be supportive and hopeful for TI, they may be offset by negativity towards a possibly generous move.I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt here and remain hopeful as well. We'll see.
I'm not sure what has motivated them to do this, but it's quite a radical departure from their track record as of late, I'd like to hope that it'd work out to be mutually beneficial.
If they've already released betas under the terms that they can give them out, I don't think that they'll be trying to charge for it either.
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 25, 2011, 03:46:19 pm
-A lot of people wanted more programming capabilities for the Nspire
-Their reputation was tarnished with OS 3.0.1 breaking calcs, something that made news on most TI websites. They wanted to repair their reputation
-Their reputation was tarnished with the many actions against developers, with the anti-downgrade protections. This made Slashdot several times, something very bad for their reputation, given how bad Sony reputation got.
-The Nspire did not sell enough due to bad programming capabilities vs price
Maybe it's just a change in direction, though, although not 100%, since they still don't allow ASM/C.
Post by: Munchor on May 26, 2011, 11:42:26 am
Post by: Lionel Debroux on May 27, 2011, 03:58:16 am
Therefore, in practice, it's only a minimal change.
Post by: ExtendeD on May 27, 2011, 08:00:02 am
Well, one thing I guess is the following:
-A lot of people wanted more programming capabilities for the Nspire
-Their reputation was tarnished with OS 3.0.1 breaking calcs, something that made news on most TI websites. They wanted to repair their reputation
-Their reputation was tarnished with the many actions against developers, with the anti-downgrade protections. This made Slashdot several times, something very bad for their reputation, given how bad Sony reputation got.
-The Nspire did not sell enough due to bad programming capabilities vs price
Maybe it's just a change in direction, though, although not 100%, since they still don't allow ASM/C.
Some of the Lua samples leaked were written by TI late 2010. These samples are clearly to demonstate the API capabilities to developers, so the release of an SDK was already planned. There's no link between the OS 3.0.1 fiasco and these Lua tools.
Advanced programming capabilities has probably been in TI's backlog for a long time, but implemented only now, this doesn't mean any change in TI's strategy. What's new is the collaboration with members of the community.
Post by: Lionel Debroux on May 27, 2011, 08:03:17 am
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 27, 2011, 10:35:11 am
Advanced programming capabilities has probably been in TI's backlog for a long time, but implemented only now, this doesn't mean any change in TI's strategy. What's new is the collaboration with members of the community.
Actually, that's how things used to be waaaay back in the day, so it's not really new per se, it's just ground they've decided to venture into yet again. We've yet to see how far they will go though, it's quite possible they'll go back to giving no info at all again. Only time will tell.
Post by: BrownyTCat on May 27, 2011, 02:56:57 pm
Post by: ExtendeD on May 27, 2011, 06:01:45 pm
Post by: TIfanx1999 on May 28, 2011, 08:59:14 am
Post by: ruler501 on May 28, 2011, 08:14:18 pm
Post by: Lionel Debroux on May 29, 2011, 02:27:47 am
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on May 29, 2011, 02:54:06 am
I hope we'll be able to bring an on-calc editor to make it even better.Yeah. It also needs to be user-friendly. This is partially what made Axe Parser so successful on the 83+.
Post by: ruler501 on May 31, 2011, 01:13:08 am
I think thats a little too much for us too ask of the new TI.We'll probably just have to hack one in nowI hope we'll be able to bring an on-calc editor to make it even better.Yeah. It also needs to be user-friendly. This is partially what made Axe Parser so successful on the 83+.
Post by: JosJuice on June 02, 2011, 10:20:26 am
http://education.ti.com/nspire/scripting (http://education.ti.com/nspire/scripting)
But they mainly call it "scripting". :P
Post by: Jim Bauwens on June 02, 2011, 10:28:17 am
Its official! No paid sdk :D
Edit:
Quote
We selected Lua because it is a mature language. It's been around since 1995, has mainstream acceptance and has been used in other applications. For example, it has been adopted by the gaming community in other products such as World of Warcraft®O.O
Post by: Stefan Bauwens on June 02, 2011, 12:53:18 pm
And they give the tools to convert to tns!I almost was going to be ninja'd, but realized the quote. xD
Its official! No paid sdk :D
Edit:QuoteWe selected Lua because it is a mature language. It's been around since 1995, has mainstream acceptance and has been used in other applications. For example, it has been adopted by the gaming community in other products such as World of Warcraft®O.O
Post by: JosJuice on June 02, 2011, 03:17:25 pm
Post by: ruler501 on June 02, 2011, 03:26:56 pm
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 02, 2011, 03:31:04 pm
TI has acknowledged Lua on their website...
http://education.ti.com/nspire/scripting (http://education.ti.com/nspire/scripting)
But they mainly call it "scripting". :P
Well, it was only a matter of time. I'm just glad they are offering it for free.
And they give the tools to convert to tns!
Its official! No paid sdk :D
Edit:QuoteWe selected Lua because it is a mature language. It's been around since 1995, has mainstream acceptance and has been used in other applications. For example, it has been adopted by the gaming community in other products such as World of Warcraft®O.O
I can't believe they mentioned World of Warcraft and gaming in an article related to programming on the Nspire.
HEY TI, HAVE YOU LOST IT? YOU HAVE A NO GAMING OR FUN PROGRAM STANCE REMEMBER? WHAT'S WRONG WITH YOU?
Post by: ruler501 on June 02, 2011, 03:39:10 pm
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 02, 2011, 04:31:13 pm
TI has acknowledged Lua on their website...Yeah I saw on ticalc earlier. I posted a news about it too. Hopefully Lua gets more popular.
http://education.ti.com/nspire/scripting (http://education.ti.com/nspire/scripting)
But they mainly call it "scripting". :P
Now I hope they don't port WoW to calcs! O.O
Post by: ruler501 on June 02, 2011, 04:57:42 pm
Post by: Ashbad on June 02, 2011, 05:05:43 pm
Post by: ruler501 on June 02, 2011, 05:16:54 pm
Well, the reason it's called a "scripting language" is because it is usually embedded in a normal programming language's code, such as in Lua interpretation inside of a C program. I don't know how many people are familiar with it, but the reason I started learning Lua (and programming) ~2 years ago was because a world creating game called "Roblox" had Lua as its embedded scripting language, that I began using very often. It's not as often that Lua programs are made as stand-alone programs.My brother is absolutely obsessed with Roblox. He is always telling me that scripting is a level above programming and I tell him its below. It appears that they aren't so far apart after all
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 02, 2011, 07:56:12 pm