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Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2010, 03:48:58 am

Title: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2010, 03:48:58 am
Despite prior information claiming that Casio's newest calculator series, the Prizm (FX-CG10/20), would come out in January 2011, the calculator started to appear on Ebay shortly before Christmas. At first, we thought they may have been leaked or that they were prototypes, but eventually, we discovered that J&R store also had them for sale already and that Casio website no longer stated it would be out in January. After further researches, we discovered that the calculator was also available on Casio's online store (http://www.shopcasio.com/product/4063). Maybe the release time frame was simply an approximate time or Casio decided to release it for Christmas time, but you can now buy the calculator online and hopefully in a few retail stores as well soon!
(http://www.omnimaga.org/images/screenshots/DispCap1.bmp)
A trial software is announced for Early 2011, as stated on this page (http://edu.casio.com/products/cg_series/fxcg10_20/). However, no SDK software is currently planned for release. While the calculator's BASIC language is much more complete than the TI-Nspire's, those who want to create ASM or C games for this new machine will either have to wait in hope that Casio will change their mind, like they did with the ClassPad 300, 2 years after its release (a SDK was released after requests from the community), or the calculator will have to be hacked.

Also, Casio have pushed back the release date for France. Instead of the first trimester of 2011, it is now going to be the 2nd. See Casio-BANK (French) (http://casio.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=10) for more info.

A new sub-forum (http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?board=146.0) for the new calculator series has been created, where hacking discussion (http://ourl.ca/8207) is already occuring.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: JosJuice on December 31, 2010, 03:50:09 am
Has anyone been able to purchase an FX-CG20, or is only the FX-CG10 released?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2010, 03:53:11 am
I think only the 10 is out. Also it's only available in america, it seems. It got delayed in France for next school year I think. I'll add a notice that in France it got delayed.

Also note that if I remember, the 20 was not planned for release in North America.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: Hot_Dog on December 31, 2010, 10:54:46 am
At least the Basic language is very good! :D  Does it allow "sprites?"
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on December 31, 2010, 11:22:27 am
Unfortunately not.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: Hot_Dog on December 31, 2010, 11:27:04 am
Ouch!  What about colors?  Can one use all 65,355, or can you only use like 16?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: Munchor on December 31, 2010, 11:27:44 am
Unfortunately not.

Also, is there C?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: Ashbad on December 31, 2010, 11:27:59 am
it think it's only RGBI in BASIC, so yeah 16 :P

I'll hold off until SDK before buying.  Or at least Prizm ndless :)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: FinaleTI on December 31, 2010, 11:29:48 am
BASIC lets you use 7 (or 8 if you count white) colors.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: JosJuice on December 31, 2010, 11:29:53 am
Seven colors, I believe. Or maybe eight.

EDIT: ninja'd D:
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: willrandship on December 31, 2010, 01:29:15 pm
If it doesn't support sprites, what's at the top of that screenshot, right below the bar? It looks like fighter from FF1. It looks like it might be as powerful a language as BBC basic, which would rock.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on December 31, 2010, 01:30:27 pm
I think that was something he edited in  :P
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: FinaleTI on December 31, 2010, 01:35:27 pm
That sprite is Desch from FF3.
I used a load of Pxl-On's to draw the thing, though once I figure out the line command, I might be able to draw it faster.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on December 31, 2010, 01:52:30 pm
Try
 F-line <X1>,<Y1>,<X2>,<Y2>

Press Shift, F3, and SKETCH to access it.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: Munchor on December 31, 2010, 01:57:27 pm
I will repeat my question: Can we use C?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on December 31, 2010, 01:59:48 pm
I'm going to say yes, but only conditionally. C compilers exist and are available for the processor. However, at the moment, we have no method of running them without rather extensive editing.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: z80man on December 31, 2010, 03:30:52 pm
It seems weird, but if you don't give a color command in a basic draw instruction the default color is green. Also a ran a speed test on the Prizm basic vs. a TI 84+ SE on basic. When the Prizm finished the 84 was only up to 230. I have yet to figure out the for loop on the Prizm.
Prizm
Code: [Select]
Cls
0->A
While A<1000
A+1->A
Black Locate 1,1,A
Wend
Ti 84+ SE
Code: [Select]
Clrhome
for(A,0,1000
disp A
end
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: willrandship on December 31, 2010, 03:34:55 pm
So, it doesn't just work like in TI-Basic? That's weird.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on December 31, 2010, 03:37:53 pm
Prizm
Code: [Select]
Cls
For 0 -> A To 1000
 Black "A
Next

Optimized for ya  ;)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: z80man on December 31, 2010, 03:54:56 pm
Prizm
Code: [Select]
Cls
For 0 -> A To 1000
 Black "A
Next

Optimized for ya  ;)
How do you set the increment to something other than +1? 
I'm guessing
Code: [Select]
For 1000 ->A To 0 Step -1Also I optimized the TI code to use output instead of disp and now the TI-84+ SE finished the loop while the Prizm(with optimized for loop) was only on 740. The while loop on the Prizm though is just barely slower than the for loop
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2010, 04:12:23 pm
It seems weird, but if you don't give a color command in a basic draw instruction the default color is green. Also a ran a speed test on the Prizm basic vs. a TI 84+ SE on basic. When the Prizm finished the 84 was only up to 230. I have yet to figure out the for loop on the Prizm.
Prizm
Code: [Select]
Cls
0->A
While A<1000
A+1->A
Black Locate 1,1,A
Wend
Ti 84+ SE
Code: [Select]
Clrhome
for(A,0,1000
disp A
end
Weird about the color. Nice to see loops are faster on the Prizm, though. Did you try with For instruction?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: z80man on December 31, 2010, 04:54:13 pm
Weird about the color. Nice to see loops are faster on the Prizm, though. Did you try with For instruction?
I did try the for instruction, but it is only a little faster than a while loop. After optimizing the 84's code the Prizm was actually slower by about 25%.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: Hot_Dog on December 31, 2010, 05:01:38 pm
Sorry if this was already answered, but do we know the speed and type of processor that the Prizm has?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: JosJuice on December 31, 2010, 05:15:36 pm
Sorry if this was already answered, but do we know the speed and type of processor that the Prizm has?
SuperH 3, running at 29 MHz (speed can be increased).
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: Hot_Dog on December 31, 2010, 05:17:30 pm
Sorry if this was already answered, but do we know the speed and type of processor that the Prizm has?
SuperH 3, running at 29 MHz (speed can be increased).

How much can it be increased?  29 MHz is SO SLOW!
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: JosJuice on December 31, 2010, 05:21:04 pm
170 something, I think.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2010, 05:22:23 pm
Weird about the color. Nice to see loops are faster on the Prizm, though. Did you try with For instruction?
I did try the for instruction, but it is only a little faster than a while loop. After optimizing the 84's code the Prizm was actually slower by about 25%.
I see. Hopefully the language is not extremly slow either. I certainly hope it's not like the Algebra FX series.
Sorry if this was already answered, but do we know the speed and type of processor that the Prizm has?
SuperH 3, running at 29 MHz (speed can be increased).

How much can it be increased?  29 MHz is SO SLOW!
From what I remember, it was a bit above 100 MHz when maxed out. That said, 29 is still better than 6, though. :P
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: yunhua98 on December 31, 2010, 05:27:50 pm
Yes!  Now I'll have to wait for an emu
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: jnesselr on December 31, 2010, 06:29:31 pm
Yeah, I wonder who can get started on an emu. I don't know near enough about it, nor do I have the physical calc to start on one at all.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2010, 07:11:32 pm
yeah the hardware will most likely need to be documented completely first. I'm sure Casio will write an emu, but I am certain it will not be accurate.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on December 31, 2010, 09:43:20 pm
Sorry if this was already answered, but do we know the speed and type of processor that the Prizm has?
SuperH 3, running at 29 MHz (speed can be increased).

How much can it be increased?  29 MHz is SO SLOW!

It can be increased up to 6 times the base frequency, which is 178 MHz (although the manufacturer claims it has a ceiling of 200 MHz). You do this by manipulating the frequency control register, which is a two byte register controlling the internal clock frequency ratio, the peripheral clock frequency ratio, and the frequency multiplier. Each of those attributes is given three bits and I'll designate them A1,2,3, B1,2,3, and C1,2,3 respectively, where the lowest number signifies the most significant bit.

The register is arranged like this:
Bit1514131211109876543210
Bit controlledC1A1B1-------C2C3A2A3B2B3

EDIT: How do you add a table border?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 31, 2010, 11:01:37 pm
Is it dangerous if the calc CPU speed is increased too much?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on December 31, 2010, 11:33:04 pm
The processor starts failing to read correctly from RAM. I'd assume that means you're going to crash something.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: jnesselr on December 31, 2010, 11:58:35 pm
I don't know if table borders are allowed, unless you can do html.  You could then change the css, but it would change all tables on the page, unless "
" allows custom classes, but you would still need your own css. Maybe it has a style attribute.

Anyway, The ceiling of 200 is probably as fast as the processor could go itself. Controlled is probably 178.  I'm not entirely sure, but I think it's just an rounded-up answer.  The only way to test that would be to hook it up to a clock running at 200, right?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on January 01, 2011, 12:04:26 am
Or we could have it perform some counting function and record how long it takes. It'd be interesting to see what happens if you set the Frequency to 0x111b instead of the maximum of 0x101b.
/me nominates FinaleTI's Prizm.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: jnesselr on January 01, 2011, 12:05:36 am
Or we could have it perform some counting function and record how long it takes. It'd be interesting to see what happens if you set the Frequency to 0x111b instead of the maximum of 0x101b.
/me nominates FinaleTI's Prizm.
/me seconds Qwerty.55's nomination

But seriously, the maximum it could do is set your calc on fire. I mean, what's the harm in that?  Actually, I would just hope pulling a battery resets it. I'm sure it does.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on January 01, 2011, 12:09:08 am
Rebooting would reset it. The question is whether the calculator actually turns off when you turn it off or goes to sleep  <_<
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: jnesselr on January 01, 2011, 12:10:25 am
Oh, true. Well, does the SH3 support interrupts?
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on January 01, 2011, 12:12:19 am
Yep, it does. I'd hope so, at least. The BRK command will turn the processor off until the next interrupt  O.O
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: jnesselr on January 01, 2011, 12:21:38 am
Yep, it does. I'd hope so, at least. The BRK command will turn the processor off until the next interrupt  O.O
Hey, do you have a command list? And possibly their hex equates?

EDIT: And what processor is it exactly.  I know it's the SH3, but which one?   One of the SH7700 series, I think.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: Ranman on January 01, 2011, 12:24:55 am
Prizm
Code: [Select]
Cls
For 0 -> A To 1000
 Black "A
Next

Optimized for ya  ;)
How do you set the increment to something other than +1? 
I'm guessing
Code: [Select]
For 1000 ->A To 0 Step -1Also I optimized the TI code to use output instead of disp and now the TI-84+ SE finished the loop while the Prizm(with optimized for loop) was only on 740. The while loop on the Prizm though is just barely slower than the for loop

So... are you saying that TI BASIC @ 15MHz is faster than the Casio BASIC @ 29MHz?

All of the sudden, I'm not very impressed...  but I will wait for more data.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on January 01, 2011, 12:44:22 am
I wish I had the hex equates...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on January 01, 2011, 05:29:34 am
Sorry if this was already answered, but do we know the speed and type of processor that the Prizm has?
SuperH 3, running at 29 MHz (speed can be increased).

How much can it be increased?  29 MHz is SO SLOW!

It can be increased up to 6 times the base frequency, which is 178 MHz (although the manufacturer claims it has a ceiling of 200 MHz). You do this by manipulating the frequency control register, which is a two byte register controlling the internal clock frequency ratio, the peripheral clock frequency ratio, and the frequency multiplier. Each of those attributes is given three bits and I'll designate them A1,2,3, B1,2,3, and C1,2,3 respectively, where the lowest number signifies the most significant bit.

<snip>

I've uploaded everything to the prizm wiki:

http://wiki.prizmwiki.co.cc/wiki/CPU_clocks (http://wiki.prizmwiki.co.cc/wiki/CPU_clocks)
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: fb39ca4 on January 01, 2011, 05:35:52 am
Sorry if this was already answered, but do we know the speed and type of processor that the Prizm has?
SuperH 3, running at 29 MHz (speed can be increased).

How much can it be increased?  29 MHz is SO SLOW!
The nspire has "spoiled" us. If it had never came out, we would be thinking of 29mhz as fast compared to the 84+.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 01, 2011, 08:30:47 pm
Prizm
Code: [Select]
Cls
For 0 -> A To 1000
 Black "A
Next

Optimized for ya  ;)
How do you set the increment to something other than +1? 
I'm guessing
Code: [Select]
For 1000 ->A To 0 Step -1Also I optimized the TI code to use output instead of disp and now the TI-84+ SE finished the loop while the Prizm(with optimized for loop) was only on 740. The while loop on the Prizm though is just barely slower than the for loop

So... are you saying that TI BASIC @ 15MHz is faster than the Casio BASIC @ 29MHz?

All of the sudden, I'm not very impressed...  but I will wait for more data.
Sadly this is how slow Casio BASIC is. However, Locate is much faster than Output() and it has more functions than the Nspire, so I guess that's a start. I wish it was faster, though.
The processor starts failing to read correctly from RAM. I'd assume that means you're going to crash something.
Ok, but I am more curious at which speed the calc can continue functioning correctly.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on January 01, 2011, 08:32:41 pm
The processor starts failing to read correctly from RAM. I'd assume that means you're going to crash something.
Ok, but I am more curious at which speed the calc can continue functioning correctly.

According to the documentation, that would be 178 MHz.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 01, 2011, 08:34:36 pm
Ah ok, that's good I guess. I hope the processor won't make the rest of the circuits too hot at such heat and cause soldering to break, though. Another worry is batteries: it would suck if the calc lasted 20 minutes max in 178 MHz mode :P
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: turiqwalrus on January 06, 2011, 08:55:52 pm
very true. after all, if you have a game like Jump! on your calculator on that speed, you'd likely need to carry around a bag full of batteries(not that most of us don't carry around extras anyway)

EDIT: also, another worry is the LCD. that could break if you push it too hard.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: z80man on January 06, 2011, 09:26:25 pm
very true. after all, if you have a game like Jump! on your calculator on that speed, you'd likely need to carry around a bag full of batteries(not that most of us don't carry around extras anyway)

EDIT: also, another worry is the LCD. that could break if you push it too hard.
You don't carry an extra bag of batteries with you!?  O.O                   
but yes you would have to watch out with the LCD. On the 83+ there was a minimun amount of time you would have to wait before redrawing to the screen.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: AngelFish on January 06, 2011, 09:29:38 pm
Well, I'm sure there won't be too many calculator casualties. But the screen is Casio's Blanview LCD, if anyone can find any specs on it.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: turiqwalrus on January 06, 2011, 09:32:25 pm
very true. after all, if you have a game like Jump! on your calculator on that speed, you'd likely need to carry around a bag full of batteries(not that most of us don't carry around extras anyway)

EDIT: also, another worry is the LCD. that could break if you push it too hard.
You don't carry an extra bag of batteries with you!?  O.O                   
of course not, but a few(a set) stay in my backpack at all times.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 07, 2011, 12:52:06 am
I only ever brought an extra set batteries with me once, because I knew the ones in my calc were gonna die soon.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: z80man on January 07, 2011, 01:01:49 am
I once was coding in school and my batteries died. I was so desperate I bought the ones from my friend's 84 for $10.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 07, 2011, 01:23:53 am
I hope you lost nothing, though. O.O

I remember during my 2002-03 coding craze (when I coded 10 hours a day, even on school days) my batteries died once and I had no money to buy new ones. I was bored to death for 2 days X.x
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: jnesselr on January 07, 2011, 08:04:52 pm
I hope you lost nothing, though. O.O

I remember during my 2002-03 coding craze (when I coded 10 hours a day, even on school days) my batteries died once and I had no money to buy new ones. I was bored to death for 2 days X.x
I thank the man who invented rechargeable batteries.  I have 8, so I always have a set to switch out when I'm at home.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 08, 2011, 07:57:27 pm
Yeah, if I had more money back then, I would have bought plenty of sets of them.
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: critor on January 10, 2011, 08:26:32 pm
in a recent PDF for teachers, Casio has pushed back the release date for the Casio Prizm in France even further...

The prizm will be available for back-to-school 2011 (late june 2011 in the best case, september 2011 in the worst case...)


See news in french:
http://casio.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=15


I'm very disappointed... :(

You guys will have hacked everything before I can get one...


Guess I'm going back to hacking TI-Nspire calculators...
Title: Re: Casio Prizm FX-CG10 released
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on January 10, 2011, 08:31:10 pm
This sucks. I hope this won't end up into something like Duke Nukem Forever and Starcraft Ghost. It's the 2nd time that they push back the release date x.x.

Don't feel too bad, though: To get something shipped from USA in Canada, it takes about one month sometimes. I ordered my Casio Prizm from Ebay in mid-December from an american store and it still hasn't arrived yet. It apparently shipped on December 22nd.