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Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: critor on May 29, 2012, 06:54:02 pm

Title: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: critor on May 29, 2012, 06:54:02 pm
On his TI-Nspire CX CAS, Jim Bauwens is allready running OS 3.2.0.1180! :thumbsup:

Don't ask him to send it to you: it's a development OS. It's signed by the development RSA keys and you won't be able to install it on your TI-Nspire which is "normally" validating the OS with the production RSA keys.



But don't be sad. Jim just shared the 1st video of a TI-Nspire running OS 3.2.

Let's discover together the new Lua physics engine :

[ Invalid YouTube link ]



More 3.2 informations are available from the TI-Planet news:
http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9367
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Adriweb on May 29, 2012, 06:55:10 pm
trolling pic also using physics engine :

(http://www.mirari.fr/xP6H)
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: AzNg0d1030 on May 29, 2012, 09:50:20 pm
All I can say is that with all the new updates, I REALLY WANT TO GET IT!!!  :o
But at the same time no Ndless..

Decisions, decisions.., :(
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Lionel Debroux on May 30, 2012, 01:02:17 am
No Ndless, and potentially some brand-new bugs. The previous OS 3.x versions have bugs in the CAS that are missing from AMS (for TI-68k calculators) and previous OS versions for the Nspire, and installing an unmodified OS 3.0.1 can easily brick calculators beyond repair with the standard, provided USB A <-> mini-USB B cable...
And the fact is that TI avoided most of the exam season in the USA... it's perfectly understandable that they didn't want to reiterate last year's fiasco.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Sebasu on May 30, 2012, 07:43:07 pm
well ndless will be offline some time if we install the os 3.2 but maybe a downgrade method would appear fast
the question is... when will the OS 3.2 update be available???
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Lionel Debroux on May 31, 2012, 01:38:59 am
Quote
well ndless will be offline some time if we install the os 3.2 but maybe a downgrade method would appear fast
Clickpad & Touchpad calculators that remain on boot2 1.4 (if their users make sure to transfer only TNOC'ed OS upgrades) are OK, but for Clickpad / Touchpad / CX calculators that have a 3.x boot2 version, ways to downgrade from OS 3.2 (which will certainly raise the minimum allowed OS version once again) are unlikely to appear very quickly, for two reasons:
* boot2 3.x versions are hardened against some classes of attacks, and OS 3.2 undoubtedly will be as well;
* a persistent fact is that hardly anybody cares about the Nspire series. More than two years after the initial release of arbitrary code execution, there's no Linux-based mini-distro for the Nspire series; the availability of arbitrary code execution is not near-uninterrupted; a good GFX library became available only pretty recently; etc.
So far, in more than two years, the Nspire series has not motivated anyone aiming at thoroughly pwning it; only fairly few people are aiming at exercising our basic user rights of running whatever we want on the platforms we own.

Quote
the question is... when will the OS 3.2 update be available???
Those under NDA, among whom I am not (and I do not want to join that group at any cost !), seem to have received dates belonging to next week (June 4-10) or the week after (June 11-17).
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: apcalc on May 31, 2012, 05:27:10 pm
Very nice!  Some of the new features for this OS sound somewhat useful!
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: blue_bear_94 on May 31, 2012, 07:36:52 pm
[sarcasm]Hopefully by OS 3.3 they should have native assembly capability up and running.[/sarcasm]
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: ruler501 on May 31, 2012, 10:53:14 pm
How long will it take for this to be installed by default on calcs being sold? I'd guess a month or two after its release so I wold hope that it doesn't take too much more then that for ndless. The new engine looks real nice though so I'll be sure to keep track of whats made for that to see if it might be worthwile to upgrade and lose ndless.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 01, 2012, 05:59:59 am
Quote
I'd guess a month or two after its release so I wold hope that it doesn't take too much more then that for ndless.
OS 3.0.1 was released in April 2011; Ndless for OS 3.1 was released in January 2012.

Quote
The new engine looks real nice though so I'll be sure to keep track of whats made for that to see if it might be worthwile to upgrade and lose ndless.
Losing the power of native code and the possibilities it provides (so many things that TI's proprietary, two-way incompatible Lua cannot do) is never worthwhile ;)
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Adriweb on June 01, 2012, 07:51:32 am
Quote
The new engine looks real nice though so I'll be sure to keep track of whats made for that to see if it might be worthwile to upgrade and lose ndless.
Losing the power of native code and the possibilities it provides (so many things that TI's proprietary, two-way incompatible Lua cannot do) is never worthwhile ;)
Well at least the good side of "official" stuff is that it will work on any Nspire 3.2. ( I mean, whenever Ndless 3.2 comes out, programs for it will only work on jailbroken devices which only represent a tiny fraction of the whole worldwide %) But that's always been like that, for any device....
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: willrandship on June 01, 2012, 04:47:13 pm
adriweb, it's only like that for devices that actually need jailbreaking. look at the ti-84.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: blue_bear_94 on June 01, 2012, 05:19:11 pm
Look at the TI-89 too. The world needs more 68k programmers.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: willrandship on June 02, 2012, 12:15:01 am
the world needs more assembly programmers
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: critor on June 02, 2012, 03:35:15 am
Quote from: Adriweb
Well at least the good side of "official" stuff is that it will work on any Nspire 3.2.

Well, sorry Adriweb but it's not my fault if nDoom and mViewer are going to stop working in the next two weeks.
And such programs cannot be developped in Lua.

You can't present such a limitation as a good side, sorry.



Quote from: Adriweb
( I mean, whenever Ndless 3.2 comes out, programs for it will only work on jailbroken devices which only represent a tiny fraction of the whole worldwide %) But that's always been like that, for any device....

I take such sentence as quite disrecpectful for people who have worked hard or are still working hard on Ndless.

Are you trying to discourage people from going on?
For what purpose? TI?
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 02, 2012, 04:05:04 am
Quote
Quote
Well at least the good side of "official" stuff is that it will work on any Nspire 3.2.
Well, sorry Adriweb but it's not my fault if nDoom and mViewer are going to stop working in the next two weeks.
And such programs cannot be developped in Lua.

You can't present such a limitation as a good side, sorry.


Quote
( I mean, whenever Ndless 3.2 comes out, programs for it will only work on jailbroken devices which only represent a tiny fraction of the whole worldwide % ) But that's always been like that, for any device...

I take such sentence as quite disrecpectfull for people who have worked or are still working on Ndless.

Are you trying to discourage people from going on?
For what purpose? TI?

Adriweb's behaviour with his peer community members, on the topic of Nspire native code, is indeed disrespectful, all the more it's not the first time he's behaving this way.
He doesn't seem to care about your and my repeated notifications that such behaviour is only going to tarnish his reputation in the open development community... Therefore, I think that, sooner rather than later, you, me and us all will have to assume that he his stated wish of becoming employed at TI, at some point in the future, carries more weight to him that the rights of his peer community members... and we'll have to act accordingly wrt. him.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Jim Bauwens on June 02, 2012, 05:28:54 am
I think Adrien was just trying to defend TI because Lionel was being so negative about (and rightfully so, because it will block Ndless again) OS 3.2 while he/we were trying to show some good. But I don't think Adrien wanted to be disrespectful, he was just defending to defend .. something I also did a few times (and I was wrong).

I think Adrien respects the Ndless coders enough, and I'm sure he did not mean it this way. However, it's important that stuff like this don't happen any more, as it will just help destroy the community more.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Adriweb on June 02, 2012, 06:02:25 am
Come on, not this again. I'll try to make a short post, because yeah, long posts aren't necesarily good anyway.

I feel you're all trying to jump on me whenever i say something to promote both sides (my goal ealier on this topic was to present the good and bad about OS 3.2).
Indeed, Lionel only told the bad side of 3.2, and me, to balance it, promoted the good side.
How is that bad behavior / disrespect ???   Jim summed it up pretty well.

Seriously... >.>

And you (also Lionel) know more than a lot of people that I love Ndless (why do you think I have it since version 1.1 and on all my Nspires ?).

But I love Lua too, so that's why I am here to also show people TI doesnt make *only* bad things.


Now, for specific messages :

Quote from: Adriweb
Well at least the good side of "official" stuff is that it will work on any Nspire 3.2.

Well, sorry Adriweb but it's not my fault if nDoom and mViewer are going to stop working in the next two weeks.
And such programs cannot be developped in Lua.

You can't present such a limitation as a good side, sorry.

You misunderstood what I wanted to say.
What I really meant is :
 -  Simple Programs/Documents created with OS 3.2 will (probably) work with other OS 3.X Nspire. By that I mean, Math documents, Graphs etc. (simple stuff)
 -  Ndless programs made with Ndless 3.2 API may not work directly for, say, Ndless 3.1 devices. That's the core of my point, since I believe there are memory-adress changes between these OS (?) and I thought there was going to be some work to adapt the programs so they are still compatible.
This thought is based on my experience with iOS Jailbreaking. The compatibility with official stuff is somewhat kept, but for jailbreak stuff, if you want some program that uses the latest version's API, you'll be forced to upgrade.

That's all I wanted to say !!

Nothing at all like something about mViewer or nDoom (or anything else) !

Quote from: Adriweb
( I mean, whenever Ndless 3.2 comes out, programs for it will only work on jailbroken devices which only represent a tiny fraction of the whole worldwide %) But that's always been like that, for any device....

I take such sentence as quite disrecpectful for people who have worked hard or are still working hard on Ndless.

I see no link at all between a fact I said (it believe it is a "fact", not something I made up to provoke people) and your reply, critor.
What I meant for my whole post (it really needs clarification, apparently) is that because it represents a small fraction, all the work will have to be re-done, which is a pity exactly because this fraction is small and doesn't have so many good programmers like the iPhone scene for example.
Also, to make sure :  I wrote   "...%)"   this should read :  "... percentage)" , not the smiley. Maybe that was another point of misunderstanding.

Anyway, you know me enough to believe I don't have any reason to be disrespectful towards anybody here, especially to you for making nDoom and mViewer which you know I have, and I use.

Are you trying to discourage people from going on?
For what purpose? TI?

That's totally not linked to whatever I posted or said, so I don't even know what to reply.
But to clarify one's mind if required : No. (I can't believe I actually have to say that. As if it weren't obvious enough.)


Quote
However, it's important that stuff like this don't happen any more, as it will just help destroy the community more.
Indeed, but Lionel apparently likes to go this way, strangely, by "enfoncer le couteau dans la plaie" (sorry english). As he apparently saw something disrespectful while it was completely not what I meant (duh) and I still can't see how my post can be seen that way.
Maybe just Critor didn't understand my message and thought it was, and Lionel "teamed up" on his side by having misunderstood too.

I dont know, maybe I also didn't write my thoughts correctly in English in the first place...
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 02, 2012, 06:54:48 am
Quote
Quote
Are you trying to discourage people from going on?
For what purpose? TI?
But to clarify one's mind if required : No. (I can't believe I actually have to say that. As if it weren't obvious enough.)
The reactions of critor and myself (among others) to your posts, on several occasions, should make it obvious to you that:
* the way you're writing your posts does not make it obvious that you're not trying to discourage people;
* you need to change the way you write your posts, in order to reduce the risk of being misunderstood. As they are, some of your posts make you sound like you drank TI's koolaid...
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: AzNg0d1030 on June 02, 2012, 11:42:30 am
How about we just stop arguing and pretend this argument never occurred? D:

This isn't what I want Omnimaga to have on its forums :(
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 02, 2012, 12:00:12 pm
If we people involved in the argument wanted to go on with it, we'd already have done so in the 5h since my previous post... and most of all, we wouldn't do it on Omnimaga.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Yeong on June 04, 2012, 08:12:53 am
so will this os be installed forcefully? (force update)
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: ParkerR on June 04, 2012, 08:14:04 am
so will this os be installed forcefully? (force update)

I haven't heard of them doing forceful installs in the past, so I wouldn't think so. It'll most likely just do a popup saying there is an update.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Jim Bauwens on June 04, 2012, 08:14:27 am
We don't know that.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 04, 2012, 10:34:58 am
It would definitively suck. As advice, when it comes out, cut your internet or something when using TI-Nspire Student Software.

Isn't it illegal for companies to force upgrade something without your permission, though? For example, every software I got has an option to disable auto-updates, yet with TI computer link software I heard past reports about that option enabling itself after updating the software...
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Jim Bauwens on June 04, 2012, 10:35:48 am
It might be, and it won't be TI's best day if they do it.

(Anyway, I have a warning system set up so everyone will be warned in time if they enable the ForceUpgrade thing)
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 04, 2012, 10:40:46 am
Ok thanks. If such thing happen, could you upload it in Omni archives, assuming it's a tool to disable that/prevent that from happening? It might be very useful. Also maybe a news might have to be done (although I am not sure since last week if I plan to continue writing calculator news)
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Jim Bauwens on June 04, 2012, 10:42:34 am
No, all I have is a warning tool. But it should be fairly trivial to block it (just need to edit host file).
Anyway, I do not think they will do it.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: calc84maniac on June 04, 2012, 11:58:42 am
Or even if it does try to auto-install, you could just unplug your calculator (considering that it takes so long to send and install)
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 04, 2012, 12:01:28 pm
No, all I have is a warning tool. But it should be fairly trivial to block it (just need to edit host file).
Anyway, I do not think they will do it.
Ok good. But even a batch file (for less computer savy people) would be a nice release if they ever did it.

Or even if it does try to auto-install, you could just unplug your calculator (considering that it takes so long to send and install)
Doesn't that delete the on-calc OS, though? That might be problematic if the person cannot find an old copy of OS 3.1 anywhere afterward.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: calc84maniac on June 04, 2012, 12:04:05 pm
I don't think anything happens to the current OS during the "send" stage, just during the "install" stage. I could be wrong though.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 04, 2012, 01:17:49 pm
Indeed, unlike the TI-Z80 and TI-68k series, the Nspire series doesn't write the OS to Flash memory until it has been fully received, and the signature has been checked :)
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Nick on June 04, 2012, 01:29:09 pm
but if you pull the usb before it has been sent totally, isn't it saved in some dark corner of the memory then? so that it's impossible to remove.. or isn't that true?
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: willrandship on June 04, 2012, 10:33:11 pm
Well, if any files are saved into unrecorded memory, then they are usually ignored and overwritten. no worries there.

Also, anything in RAM is lost on reboot, and that's where it saves it while it's sending.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: mlytle0 on June 05, 2012, 02:37:22 pm
If any of you are as annoyed as I am with the closed nature of the Nspire compared to the Casio Prizm or even earlier TI calcs, and if you happen to have bought your Nspire at Amazon as I did, write a review and let the world know.  The manufacturers DO pay attention to Amazon ratings, as that is what many people use to decide what to buy.  My own personal peeve is that I do research and write  small to medium size programs in TI-Basic to test certain ideas, some of it to do with Signal Processing.  I'm talking things like Fast Fourier Transforms.

The Nspire has the needed speed, but you can't start a graph at the end of a program run, automatically, like I could on the slower but well thought out TI-89.  Everything is manual on the Nspire.  My 'rant' is on Amazon here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A14BPYS1D1ZJS5/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview

It's best if you only do this if you bought your unit on Amazon, that way it wouldn't look like some group was stacking the cards against this product (it would look political, contrived or something).  Nonetheless, used well, the Amazon product review feedback is one way of getting manufacturers to 'listen up'.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: AzNg0d1030 on June 05, 2012, 07:49:53 pm
Oh god more spam huh.
If any of you are as annoyed as I am with the closed nature of the Nspire compared to the Casio Prizm or even earlier TI calcs, and if you happen to have bought your Nspire at Amazon as I did, write a review and let the world know.  The manufacturers DO pay attention to Amazon ratings, as that is what many people use to decide what to buy.  My own personal peeve is that I do research and write  small to medium size programs in TI-Basic to test certain ideas, some of it to do with Signal Processing.  I'm talking things like Fast Fourier Transforms.

The Nspire has the needed speed, but you can't start a graph at the end of a program run, automatically, like I could on the slower but well thought out TI-89.  Everything is manual on the Nspire.  My 'rant' is on Amazon here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A14BPYS1D1ZJS5/ref=cm_cr_pr_auth_rev?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview

It's best if you only do this if you bought your unit on Amazon, that way it wouldn't look like some group was stacking the cards against this product (it would look political, contrived or something).  Nonetheless, used well, the Amazon product review feedback is one way of getting manufacturers to 'listen up'.
See, but most of us love the Nspire.  Go to maybe a Casio or HP website :\  Please don't post that kind of stuff on our forums.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: mlytle0 on June 05, 2012, 08:18:06 pm
Not everyone on this site loves the Nspire.  I see a lot of people frustrated by it's closed format.  I don't think you speak for everyone.

I own  a Ti-86 and two Titaniums.  I'm hardly anti-Texas Instruments, per se

Anyway, when you try and do production work with them they are very cumbersome.  Maybe o.k. for education, but they've turned their back on researchers and others who needs are different.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: AzNg0d1030 on June 06, 2012, 04:23:50 pm
Not everyone on this site loves the Nspire.  I see a lot of people frustrated by it's closed format.  I don't think you speak for everyone.

I own  a Ti-86 and two Titaniums.  I'm hardly anti-Texas Instruments, per se

Anyway, when you try and do production work with them they are very cumbersome.  Maybe o.k. for education, but they've turned their back on researchers and others who needs are different.
I realize that.  That's why I said most.

Anyways... Back to OS 3.2. I heard someone say it's coming out next week.  I thought it was delayed?
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: blue_bear_94 on June 06, 2012, 04:24:17 pm
Yay for the Nspire owner.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: jwalker on June 06, 2012, 04:28:14 pm
just to say, i love my nspires
also idk, everyone is saying something diffrent about when the os is comming out
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Adriweb on June 06, 2012, 05:19:42 pm
Anyways... Back to OS 3.2. I heard someone say it's coming out next week.  I thought it was delayed?

Release tomorrow, most probably.
News are written already, so don't bother doing that (<- message to whoever wants to :P)
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Wayne on June 06, 2012, 05:52:39 pm
Anyways... Back to OS 3.2. I heard someone say it's coming out next week.  I thought it was delayed?

Release tomorrow, most probably.
News are written already, so don't bother doing that (<- message to whoever wants to :P)
Finally, can't wait any longer :D
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Adriweb on June 06, 2012, 07:44:41 pm
3.2 OSes URLs found.

TI-Planet news here :
http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?short=1&p=125238

Good part : Looks like Downgrading to 3.1 possible !
(tested on emu + real Clickpad CAS)
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: Juju on June 06, 2012, 07:48:05 pm
Cool! News coming soon?

Also nice that we can downgrade to 3.1.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 08, 2012, 11:39:26 am
@AzNg0d1030: First of all, don't micro moderate. If you have a problem with a post use the "report to moderator button". Second of all, his post isn't spammy, it's well stated and not even rude. If anyone was out of place here it was you telling him to "go else where", so please watch that.

@mlytle0: Welcome to Omni. We have people that have all sorts of calculators here including Prizms. I myself own most of TI's models in on form or another except for the nSpire due to it's rather closed nature. Anyhow, I hope you stick around. If you haven't already, you may want to go <a href=http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?board=10.0>introduce yourself.</a>

I don't have much to say about the new OS really, I'm glad (for nSpire users) that at least Lua is getting updated and getting more toys if nothing else.
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: AzNg0d1030 on June 08, 2012, 06:27:31 pm
Well I don't think it should be posted in this thread necessarily...
Title: Re: First Nspire OS 3.2 demo on a calculator
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 08, 2012, 06:56:30 pm
@AzNg0d1030: First of all, don't micro moderate. If you have a problem with a post use the "report to moderator button".
Wow first time I hear of micro-moderation. I always called it backseat-moderating lol.

Also AzN Omni is both TI and Casio lol. There is even a Casio section on the forums. Btw people are free to rant about calc models if they want, as long as they don't join just to attempt starting calc wars like that HP fanboy did once. I myself like my TI-Nspire CX but I won't hesitate denouncing bad behaviour by TI.