Omnimaga
Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: Jim Bauwens on April 13, 2013, 07:22:37 am
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Today, I'm proud to release a port of Mini vMac for the TI-Nspire! Now you can run Mac System 7 on handheld, use applications such as MacPaint and more!
(http://i.imgur.com/S6h11IX.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/kBLcT0h.jpg)
Recently Mini vMac was ported to SDL, which allowed me to port it to the TI-Nspire using nSDL. This is another good example showing the power of nSDL.
EDIT: Touchpad support for mouse control
Download it here:
Mini vMac for the TI-Nspire (http://tiplanet.org/forum/archives_voir.php?id=12534)
TI-Planet news article (http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?short=1&p=138333#p138326)
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Very nice Jim. :P
I had fun playing the slide-game on it yesterday. :)
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Very cool! ^^ Is there some reason you didn't put this in news?
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it's definitely newsworthy :D
Also, any way to move the mouse faster ? :P
(Also, can i haz HyperCard on it ?)
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Very cool! ^^ Is there some reason you didn't put this in news?
Well, I wanted to wait and see what the others thought about it^^
it's definitely newsworthy :D
Also, any way to move the mouse faster ? :P
Well, as soon as I get the touchpad working ;P Currently the mouse moving is done by the OS itself, and I have no control over it. Although I could try some tricks ^^
(Also, can i haz HyperCard on it ?)
http://www.emaculation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5700
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O.O
...
...
...
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Wow, it is really great !
But is there any way to make scroll the screen ?
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HOLY CRAP this is AWESOME. So this will run any software compatible with Mac OS7? Awesome! (Now all we need is OSX...)
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That looks pretty cool, Jim!
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this is so cool, how do i get the mouse faster? AMAZING. :) :) :) and how do i get files on it
Edit: Got it renaming it to .DMG :)
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Ok this got me from, hey some sort of text editor perhaps :) then I saw mac and was like >_> and then I saw the screenies and was lik o.o This is a pretty awesome job :D I must definitely check this out.
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but....it's apple D:/me is anti-apple :P
Still awesome, though
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but....it's apple D:/me is anti-apple :P
this is from the time apple was different then now
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but....it's apple D:/me is anti-apple :P
this is from the time apple was different then now
Oh, from that time? then it is pure awesomeness :D
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I saw this and I immediately thought, "but it's not April fools, what is this doing here?". This is pretty much the coolest thing I've ever seen.
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Awesome job Jim! I'll be sure to load this on today!
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Faster mouse? Go to Easy Access and set the delay short and the max speed to high! it's workable :)
Edit: (there is a ROM file in it.. isn't that illegal??)
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Is there a way to make a bigger disk file? I'm having too much fun with this
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Update everyone, there is a new version that has touchpad support! :D
Now you can move the mouse easily around.
Edit: (there is a ROM file in it.. isn't that illegal??)
As far as I understand, this isn't illegal were it's hosted now.
Is there a way to make a bigger disk file? I'm having too much fun with this
http://minivmac.sourceforge.net/extras/blanks.html
Install Mini vMac on your computer, and migrate your disk to a bigger one (you can download empty disk images in the above link).
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Is this just a gimmick?
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Nope, mini vmac is an actual Mac emulator
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Sarcasm?
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There is no sarcasm or gimmick about it. Like TheNlightenedOne said, mini vmac is a Mac emulator. This IS a Mac OS to run on your nspire (not directly but from the documents screen).
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If you don't believe it, why not download and try it? ;)
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HOLY GOSH BALLS! It's real! I can't wait to try this!
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This is so beautiful! :thumbsup:
I just noticed that Jim and Steven may be brothers?
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yes, discovered the same thing an hour ago they are (same website got you :P)
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@Dapianokid, Stefan and I are brothers ^.^
I still need to work a bit on improving the speed, as that dropped slightly (although it's still very usable) when adding touchpad mouse control support.
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Touchpad support's working pretty well, considering it's emulating a computer operating system. ;)
Never used one of the old macs before, so figuring it out as I go :P
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it seems a lot slower with touchpad support.
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On my Touchpad it didn't seem to slow down too much, just slightly.
Anywho, I made a 8 MB disk. Works very nicely! Thanks Jim
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when i make a disk it is missing all the files :s the icons are in place but it said is was missing :(
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You have to install Mini vMac on your computer, boot it with the system.dsk file, take a blank one, load that one in as well, and then just copy. (that worked for me, at least)
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oh i did an install
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Man, Im antimac, but still I need this
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Wait... there's no brown text
Wait... there's an actual download
Wait... my mind just exploded
This looks awesome O.O
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CAn this run any mac OS 7 program?
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I thought I saw jim say that it only runs 68k programs. Quoting (tnx dxl) "look for 68k stuff / the 68000 is emulated / so higher or powerpc will not work".
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Why is the screen resolution wrong for me?
Edit: Also when I try to launch a file it says: The document "name" could not be opened, because the application program that created it could not be found.
Edit2: Turns out it's just the messages
Also I can't use drop down menus because I can't move the mouse enough. Solutions?
Edit3: Also the window size default is too big
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OS7, and in turn the original emu, was written with a larger screen in mind.
actual size of screen (http://minivmac.sourceforge.net/screens/Win7.gif)
E: for the drop-down menus, you could enable mouse keys by pressing tab and hold the 5 key while using the touchpad.
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OS7, and in turn the original emu, was written with a larger screen in mind.
actual size of screen (http://minivmac.sourceforge.net/screens/Win7.gif)
Ok, so can this be changed?
E: for the drop-down menus, you could enable mouse keys by pressing tab and hold the 5 key while using the touchpad.
Please explain more, what do you mean by "using the touchpad" do you mean holding click.
What keys are the mouse keys?
And "pressing tab" does that mean I am supposed to press it but not hold it?
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Hi, I tried to use the following disk : http://www.mediafire.com/?nmymty24z5t
Not only didn't it work, but also the file can't be deleted anymore.
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Edit: Sorry it acctually works on the PC
No idea why it doesn't work
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Please explain more, what do you mean by "using the touchpad" do you mean holding click.
What keys are the mouse keys?
And "pressing tab" does that mean I am supposed to press it but not hold it?
Might help to read the readme ;)
you can use the number keys to control the mouse. If you press TAB, Mini vMac will send Command-Shift-Clear to the emulator and Mac OS will enable number key mouse control. Use 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9 to move the mouse and 5 to click
Update everyone, there is a new version that has touchpad support
So, to use the menus, enable number key mouse control, put the mouse over the menu, hold 5 (mouse click) and move the mouse with either the touchpad or the keys. Releasing 5 selects whatever the mouse is above.
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Few problems I have encountered:
Figuring out how to use drop down menus is a hassle.
There is no "controls" section of the help.
Rebooting/shutting down and turning back on causes the system to be unable to locate/read/initialize it's disk image. So rebooting is a nono.
There are no save states, and instead of control, I suggest using a button like docs to pull up the emulator controls.
I was thinking of porting Mac 9 to the calcs after GNesis (spelled it that way on purpose) is at least stable. :) This is so cool
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Oh.
My.
God.
This.
Is.
BEAUTIFUL.
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Darn this is cool. I wonder if it's legal to distribute, though? Or has it become abandonware over the years?
By the way, does this include all 7.x systems and would it be able to run softwares from a Flash Drive like Linucx? Because Starcraft can run on Mac System 7.6 so I wonder if it could actually run it? O.O I suppose the fact that old versions requires the CD might be seriously problematic, though, unless there's a way to make a Flash drive act like a CD drive and have a game read from it.
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Hi, I tried to use the following disk : http://www.mediafire.com/?nmymty24z5t
Not only didn't it work, but also the file can't be deleted anymore.
Well, at the moment my port can open only one disk image. That image has to have a system folder in it, in order to boot. But it doesn't, and that is why it fails.
Install Mini vMac on your computer, and drag the system.dsk onto the emulator (so it will boot), and then drag the 1988.dsk image on it. You will see two floppies on your desktop, and now you could for example copy the system folder to the 1988.dsk.
Then shutdown your emulator. Now you should be able to get that disk working on your handheld.
Regarding the problem that you can't delete the file, try rebooting your Nspire. It might be that the disk is still seen as in use.
Few problems I have encountered:
Figuring out how to use drop down menus is a hassle.
You need to keep clicking while dragging through the menu's. I recommend you to press 'tab' to toggle numpad control for the mouse. Then you can use the touchpad to move the mouse, and 5 to click.
There is no "controls" section of the help.
Well, it does mention that you can use TAB to toggle numpad control, and ctrl to access the menu. The controls of Mac System 7 are out of the scope of the readme, it doesn't belong to the emulator.
Rebooting/shutting down and turning back on causes the system to be unable to locate/read/initialize it's disk image. So rebooting is a nono.
When rebooting, System 7 ejects the disk. So when boot again, the disk will be gone. So this is perfectly normal behavior. I'll see if I can add a menu to mount disk images. That will always be handy.
There are no save states, and instead of control, I suggest using a button like docs to pull up the emulator controls.
Well, I need to see if DOC allows you to press other keys simultaneously. If it does, then I'll definitely do the switch.
Darn this is cool. I wonder if it's legal to distribute, though? Or has it become abandonware over the years?
I could always remove the disk and rom image if it could present problems (although I don't think so, for example os 7.0.1 is freely available). It would just be harder though for new users.
By the way, does this include all 7.x systems and would it be able to run softwares from a Flash Drive like Linucx? Because Starcraft can run on Mac System 7.6 so I wonder if it could actually run it? O.O I suppose the fact that old versions requires the CD might be seriously problematic, though, unless there's a way to make a Flash drive act like a CD drive and have a game read from it.
Normal all 7.x (and previous versions) should boot. However, there are PowerPC versions and 68k versions. This emulator is for 68k (68000 specifically), so you need to see if the software supports that. As for USB disk support, that's quite hard .. but it is possible with very very much work ;P
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Could you please fix the resolution or is it not fixable?
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Could you please fix the resolution or is it not fixable?
I think that's a standard size, and unless you can change the OS itself, I don't think it's possible. :/
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Ah yes, I forget that this is old mac where the software was only made for one piece of hardware.
Edit: I wonder if it's legal to distribute, though? Or has it become abandonware over the years?
Well this is apple, they always love a law suit.
Edit2: The tab thing doesn't work for me. I have tried holding tab. Pressing tab then using 1,2,3,4,6,7,8,9 and 5 to click. I have tried these both so many times.
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you can add full resolution and then use scrolling to get to the right place on the screen?
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Augs,
When the OS has started, press TAB one time. Then pressing 5 will act as a mouse click. The other can also be used to control the mouse.
Floris: It's a lot of work to do that, so I'll see.
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THIS IS AWESOME!
Now port Windows
/me runs to Antarctica
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Augs,
When the OS has started, press TAB one time. Then pressing 5 will act as a mouse click. The other can also be used to control the mouse.
This doesn't seem to work for me.
I am going to try and re-download it
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THIS IS AWESOME!
Now port Windows
/me runs to Antarctica
Windows 3.1 running in DosBox. That might work.
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I'm sorry but if I can boot Debian ARM and even an old version of Ubuntu (of which both are possible) on an Nspire, Mac OSX 10 is possible.
The screen is weird, it cuts off.
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THIS IS AWESOME!
Now port Windows
/me runs to Antarctica
Windows 3.1 running in DosBox. That might work.
WinCE, perhaps?
anyone up to the challenge?
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I'm sorry but if I can boot Debian ARM and even an old version of Ubuntu (of which both are possible) on an Nspire, Mac OSX 10 is possible.
there was never a version of OS X compiled for ARM processors, so no it's not possible at all.
and since OS X is a closed source OS it might never be compiled for ARM.
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THIS IS AWESOME!
Now port Windows
/me runs to Antarctica
Windows 3.1 running in DosBox. That might work.
WinCE, perhaps?
anyone up to the challenge?
Why not PalmOS?
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Looks like we never ever need TI OS anymore :P
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Mac OSX 10 is possible.
On non-Apple hardware ? Yeah, sure ;)
iOS is smaller than MacOS X is, but would nevertheless be a royal pain on such an underpowered platform as the Nspire... plus there's a small problem for making the port, the source is not available.
WinCE, perhaps?
It could indeed be a challenge, but one of little practical value :)
That Windows redux with huge incompatibilities has always sucked from a technical POV - and likewise, we don't have the source code.
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So basically we have to infiltrate in the companies to steal the source. *evil grin*
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THIS IS AWESOME!
Now port Windows
/me runs to Antarctica
Windows 3.1 running in DosBox. That might work.
WinCE, perhaps?
anyone up to the challenge?
Why not PalmOS?
Because I thought of WinCE first :P
PalmOS is a good choice too, I suppose. So long as the OS can be compiled for ARM, it's good.
/me wonders if it is possible to emulate x86 on ARM (I don't know if ARM is 16 bit or 32 bit)
Edit: WinCE and PalmOS have both been ported to ARM, so it looks like they might be possible
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Is Android an option? (i cant port is but seems interesting to me)
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Android is a modified Linux and specific userspace, but it's effectively the most popular variant of a Linux derivative out there, and would obviously be a far saner choice for porting to the Nspire than any of the proprietary, closed source OS.
However, all ports are shackled by the fact that the Nspire is very underpowered by modern standards. Heck, the Clickpad was already relatively underpowered when it hit the marketplace in 2007, and the CX isn't much of an improvement over the Clickpad/Touchpad...
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Very well put Lionel. :)
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Pretty sure Android will have a hard time running on Nspire. My current phone have something like 400 MB RAM and a 600MHz proc and it already have a hard time running. So I dunno.
Why not someone making an Nspire Linux distro?
Also back on topic, you guys should put the mac emulator on autorun. Would be fun.
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Just do MS-DOS, I bet that that could run on a potato.
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I've seen some ARM ports of DOS floating around....maybe someone could port it?
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Just do MS-DOS, I bet that that could run on a potato.
But not on an apple ;) If you guys are interested in porting DOS or an emulator such as DOSbox, you should start a new thread about it. This topic isn't really the place for it :)
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Just do MS-DOS, I bet that that could run on a potato.
But not on an apple ;) If you guys are interested in porting DOS or an emulator such as DOSbox, you should start a new thread about it. This topic isn't really the place for it :)
http://ourl.ca/17257
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By the time the next amazing model comes out (Nspire II, if you will), there will be no interest in porting the OS's of choice of today. New ones will arrive.
Mac OS X has been taken apart enough to run on Hackintoshes. So I figured...
Android would be possible.
But anyways, how do I pan to the other end of the screen? The controls are cut off and some folders I open in Mac 7 aren't fully shown
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I hope this will be like tiboy where yuo can see all of the screen by moving it around.
Also, amazing job, I thought this was going to be bad like Microsoft Bob, then I tried it, its pretty good.
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How how exactly do I move files to it? I have a .bin and .sit (i think that's what it is) of Macintosh Programmers Workshop; how do I install it onto the emulator? I have a real Mac running OSX if that helps any.
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go to http://minivmac.sourceforge.net/doc/start.html
there you can find: ImportFl binUnpk ExportFl
drag the .dsk files into the emulator and run the import program then drag you binfile on it
select a location and then open BinUnpk and open the bin file you placed on the emulator
now select the destination and thats all unpacked
hope this was where you were looking for
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I guess so, but how do i put those 3 programs on the emulator to start with?
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extract the zip file and drag the .dsk into the emulator to mount it,
i mean you have to use the the emulator on you mac to get files on it.
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So I have to install mini vMac on my computer to move files to the mini vMac on my calculator? I'm still not too sure how to open other disk files on my calculator's vMac.
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on your calculator you can only open one image, so the idea is to put all the files you want on one single image on you computer with the computer version of vMac so you can use that image on your calc
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How can I open and edit AppleScripts on this emulator?
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How can I open and edit AppleScripts on this emulator?
From wikipedia: AppleScript was released in October 1993 as part of System 7.1.1
I suppose if you have system 7.1.1 running, yes. (the one included is 7.0.1).
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Didn't notice that. I'm just using the included OS (which is apparently 7.0.1).
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Can you please make it so you can scroll to see all of the screen?
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Can you please make it so you can scroll to see all of the screen?
yes please
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I think the last operating system suported by mini vMac is Mac OS System 7.5.5, but will require a tricky installation as prescribed here:
http://minhdanh2002.blogspot.pt/2008/11/system-755-on-mini-vmac.html
:P
Howeve is very funny to use the Mac OS on a calculator, this means I can use Photoshop >:D, or even Mathematica! O.O
(Up to version 3, even it's too old, is even more powerfull than current Maxima 5.29.1 O.O).
So far, the only way to start Maxima on Nspire is to boot Linux and start the console version of Maxima. :(
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Wait, would Photoshop actually run? O.O
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I think it would actually run. The old versions, anyway.
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Yeah, that's it, I'm trying installing System 7.5.5 in minivmac using the tutorial Nosferatu posted.
Also note for Linux users, you can mount hfs images using the usual mount command as root.
EDIT: For decompressing the .smi.bin you might want to download Stuffit for Linux just here (http://web.archive.org/web/20060205025441/http://www.stuffit.com/downloads/files/stuffit520.611linux-i386.tar.gz).
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I'm trying to run this on my TI-Nspire (clickpad version) and it seems to crash shortly after booting (holding down Ctrl to get to the Control Mode doesn't even work). Am I doing something wrong? I'm using the ROM and disk image included in the download, and haven't changed anything.
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Hmm, I've successfully used in on a touchpad. What version of Ndless are you using?
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Hmm, I've successfully used in on a touchpad. What version of Ndless are you using?
I'm using Ndless 3.1 r866.
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Hmm, Mini vMac is compiled with the r6xx branch, maybe that some change is causing the issue. If possible could you try with an older version of Ndless? I don't have the setup at the moment to recompile and test under r866.
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Hmm, Mini vMac is compiled with the r6xx branch, maybe that some change is causing the issue. If possible could you try with an older version of Ndless? I don't have the setup at the moment to recompile and test under r866.
Where can I find one of these r6xx versions? All I can find are r866 and r848, both of which seem to have the problem.
EDIT: I found a copy of r643, and switching to it did not solve the problem. What do you think might be going on?
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Hmm, very strange. Are you running any other Ndless program that possibly could cause this misbehavior? Or do you have a very full device? Also, did you put the files in the correct directory (I assume you did, but you never know) ?
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Hmm, very strange. Are you running any other Ndless program that possibly could cause this misbehavior? Or do you have a very full device? Also, did you put the files in the correct directory (I assume you did, but you never know) ?
I don't think I'm running anything else at the moment, and the device should have plenty of space. I put the three Mini vMac files in /ndless, which I believe is the correct directory.
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Maybe one of the files somehow got corrupted, could you retry sending them? At the moment I don't have any idea what the problem could be. I'm thinking about it.
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Maybe one of the files somehow got corrupted, could you retry sending them? At the moment I don't have any idea what the problem could be. I'm thinking about it.
I've already tried redownloading and resending the files numerous time, even using md5sum to make sure nothing went wrong. The disk image boots fine in Mini vMac on my PC, so I know there's no problem there.
Has this program ever been tested with the clickpad? I know you said it works fine with the touchpad, but this is the only thing I can think of based on what you've said that might be causing the problem.
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Ah, I somehow misread that you had a touchpad. I have only tested it on touchpad/cx hardware. Hmm, the problem might indeed be the touchpad driver I'm using. I'll see if I can find (but that will have to be tomorrow) the version that doesn't have touchpad support. If you can't wait you could try to compile the source code yourself, it will be without touchpad support by default (because you need to patch nSDL if you want that).
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Ah, I somehow misread that you had a touchpad. I have only tested it on touchpad/cx hardware. Hmm, the problem might indeed be the touchpad driver I'm using. I'll see if I can find (but that will have to be tomorrow) the version that doesn't have touchpad support. If you can't wait you could try to compile the source code yourself, it will be without touchpad support by default (because you need to patch nSDL if you want that).
I tried compiling it myself today, but the file produced doesn't run properly on my Nspire (just hangs with a black screen). I'm sure I'm just doing something wrong, though I'm not sure what.
Have you had any luck finding the version with no touchpad support?
EDIT: I got it to build. In the version I compiled, the mouse cursor appears in the top left corner instead of the top right corner. However, it still hangs shortly after booting.
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I think http://cloud.bwns.be/public.php?service=files&t=5a9f02b702141edfd821f92774ec523d should be the version, can you test it?
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I think http://cloud.bwns.be/public.php?service=files&t=5a9f02b702141edfd821f92774ec523d should be the version, can you test it?
This version does not hang. Thank you!
EDIT: Although it runs just fine, it isn't very usable. Pressing a number moves the mouse cursor by only one pixel, so actually doing anything requires tons of button mashing.
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That's good to know, I'll see to fix this in a future build. Thanks for testing :)
If you keep pressing, the mouse should accelerate.
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That's good to know, I'll see to fix this in a future build. Thanks for testing :)
If you keep pressing, the mouse should accelerate.
It doesn't accelerate properly. Sometimes it works, but sometimes it doesn't. I can't figure out exactly what triggers it.
EDIT: I found the problem. It turns out that at the default speed of 8x, the keystroke isn't reliably repeated continuously because the Nspire is too slow to keep up. Changing the speed to 1x fixes this, and also seems to speed things up in general. I think it would be nice if this were made the default option (Ctrl S Z switches it to 1x for now).
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I have also made some disk images for this emulator:
http://vps.stownsend42.us.to/mini-vmac/
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I see you made a 7.5.5 disk as well :) Any software coming along with it?
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I see you made a 7.5.5 disk as well :) Any software coming along with it?
There isn't much software that would work well with this emulator in its current state. Most applications from the Macintosh Plus era expected a 512x384 display, and couldn't even take advantage of larger displays let alone smaller ones. This version of Mini vMac is compiled to emulate a Macintosh with a 320x240 display, something that never actually existed. Mini vMac does have built-in support for scrolling the screen when run on lower resolution devices, but I'm not sure if this currently works on the Nspire. It is definitely a feature that should be looked into, and may require actual mouse support instead of using Mouse Keys.
EDIT: I'd like to be able to compile some Mini vMac builds for myself, but every version I compile seems to eventually crash. What might I be doing wrong?
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It is definitely a feature that should be looked into, and may require actual mouse support instead of using Mouse Keys.
adding a support to the hidn drivers can be cool... I hope someone can do that
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Using an older version of the SDK, I've now managed to compile versions that don't crash. However, the numbers are mapped to the keys at the top of the keyboard, so there is no way to move the mouse.
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The SDK should be backward compatible. Which version did you have to use?
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The SDK should be backward compatible. Which version did you have to use?
I used r695 (which I found on some Chinese website). The latest version (r866) seems to produce versions that crash.
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I wish the screen was full size too. Whenever I run MacPaint I get a screen that's been cut in half. At least tell me why this is if you can't fix it.
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First of all, the Mini vMac SDL version doesn't have support for scrolling. The reason why I can't fix it, something I mentioned before, is simply because I don't have the time to do so. At the moment I'm very busy managing all stuff in real life, while trying to keep it with some of my projects.
On a side note, Hoffa has noted that he is working again on adding mouse support to nSDL. This is great news as it means it will indirectly improve touchpad support in Mini vMac :)
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I'm using a TI-NSpire CAS running ndless 3.9 and OS 3.9.0.493, I copied minivmac.tns, system.dsk.tns and vmac.ROM.tns to my ndless folder, but the app won't open no matter what I do. I've also tried this on a classic TI-NSpire with the same results.
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I am trying to modify some settings in minivmac by re-compiling it, however, every time I compile it the resulting tns file is much smaller than the release one and the calculator says that it is an unsupported format whenever I try to run it, however, running the release version works.
Compiling and running without anything modified also doesn't work
Is there anyway in which I can compile minivmac for the TI-Nspire?