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Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: DJ Omnimaga on November 12, 2012, 02:49:35 pm

Title: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 12, 2012, 02:49:35 pm
Following the previous news (http://ourl.ca/17416), Adriweb on TI-Planet has managed to get more details from Texas Instruments (http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=132200#p132200) about the upcoming TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition model, which might answer some of our questions. Here is what TI wrote:

Quote
TI has begun previewing the soon to be released TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition graphing calculator. This product will be available in the Spring of 2013. The TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition has all the functionality of the best-selling TI-84 Plus family of graphing calculators - now with color and TI Rechargeable Battery.

In addition to that, as he mentions here (http://ourl.ca/17416/323256) and here (http://ourl.ca/17416/323318), Adriweb got confirmed that the calculator will feature a Z80 processor of the same family as the older TI-84 Plus series and that it will have compatibility with the older models.
(http://i.imgur.com/hX97x.png?8195)

So basically, here is what has been confirmed so far:
-Model name(TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition)
-Release date (Spring 2013)
-Z80 processor (same family as previous calcs, so most likely no eZ80)
-320x240 color, backlit display
-Native ASM support (there are Asm(), AsmComp() and AsmPrgm commands and an APPS key)
-Same rechargeable battery as the TI-Nspire CX
-At least some compatibility with the older 84+ models

More anwsers to the following questions should hopefully come soon, either from TI or from 0rac343 (http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8429)
-How far will 84+ compatibility will go? Will old ASM programs run? Will Pxl-On/Off/Change() coordinates, 8xi files and other TI-BASIC graphics become messed up due to the different screen resolution?
-What is the processor speed? There is wide speculation about Z80 processors not being able to go beyond 25 MHz.
-How much RAM and Flash/archive memory is available for the user?
-How long will the battery last?
-Is there an I/O port or just USB?
-Can it run Crysis?
-Price

Hopefully more info should be available in the near future.

Source: http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=10736
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition
Post by: aeTIos on November 12, 2012, 02:50:45 pm
First post!
I lost the game and I think this is awesome. Hope TI will make this as open as the 84+ platform is now :D
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 12, 2012, 02:53:30 pm
First post!
I lost the game and I think this is awesome.
On ticalc.org, I remember that back in 2002-06 or so, staff deleted every post that included "First post" in them, even if the post included content that is relevant to the news or great info, because every new had someone post that. :P
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: aeTIos on November 12, 2012, 02:55:43 pm
It was just me being a bit trollish. Problem?
Spoiler For Spoiler:
(http://www.brandwatch.com/wp-content/uploads/brandwatch/troll.jpg)
/me hides
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: Streetwalrus on November 12, 2012, 02:57:36 pm
-What is the processor speed? There is wide speculation about Z80 processors not being able to go beyond 25 MHz.
According to Wikipedia, the eZ80 can go up to 50 MHz and is fully compatible. Maybe this /the/ one that's in there. :P
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DrDnar on November 12, 2012, 02:58:19 pm
We're not making up a 25 MHz limit. Nobody's ever mass-produced a Z80 that runs faster than 20 MHz. The only reason we're suggesting 25 MHz is that DS staff told us long ago that the TI-83+SE was planned to support up to 25 MHz. I suppose, though, that if the eZ80 goes up to 50 MHz, it's possible TI could make a regular Z80 (based on modern fab technology) go that fast, or just use an actual eZ80.
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 12, 2012, 02:58:49 pm
Nope, because TI apparently said that it was the exact same Z80 processor as the one present in the TI-84+ models.
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DrDnar on November 12, 2012, 03:05:22 pm
The eZ80 is compatible with the regular Z80. We assembly programmers would prefer the eZ80. A 50 MHz eZ80 can easily get the performance of a 200 MHz Z80 because it can run most instructions in a single clock cycle, whereas the Z80 takes between 4 and 21 23 clock cycles for each instruction. An eZ80 could easily address all the extra memory needed to efficiently manipulate a high-resolution color display. If you want good gaming,  you better hope the suit-guy was wrong about it being the vintage Z80 design.

Addendum: One clock-cycle is one hertz, i.e. 15 MHz means 15 million clock cycles per second.
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 12, 2012, 03:10:06 pm
Something I wonder, though, is why didn't 82 and 83 ASM programs run on the 83+ or why 82 ASM programs didn't run on the 83/82 Stats? Didn't they use the same Z80 processor?

(Btw for the newer members here, MirageOS used to have a built-in TI-82 ASM emulator, but I don't recall anyone ever saying that he managed to get any program to run)
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DrDnar on November 12, 2012, 03:13:27 pm
Yes, DJ_O, but the hardware and OS were different. Assembly programs like to bypass the OS and interact with the hardware directly. But since the hardware is slightly different, it won't work. Moreover, the OS was also different. The locations of all the safe RAM is different, the program format is slightly different, the program loading location is different, and the OS routines have slightly different functionality.
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: FloppusMaximus on November 12, 2012, 03:19:19 pm
They do use the same CPU, but the I/O ports work differently, and the RAM and ROM layout is different.  Very simple assembly programs can be made to work on more than one model, and in theory shells could have been written to make this easier, but in general it's just simpler to build separate 82/83/83+ versions of the same program than to try to make one program work on both.
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 12, 2012, 03:42:49 pm
Hmm I see. I hope that the new 84+ hardware (aside from the LCD) isn't too different so programs aren't too hard to port. And I hope that not too many people quit making programs for older models or vice-versa either. I know that about 5 years after the TI-83 Plus came out, some ASM coders were still making their games 83-only (or in two cases, 82-only)
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: Keoni29 on November 12, 2012, 03:52:22 pm
I wonder why they use the same damn cpu. The thing is too damn slow for proper graph plotting.
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: calc84maniac on November 12, 2012, 05:00:59 pm
About the I/O port, 0rac343 confirmed that here (http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=194181#194181)
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DrDnar on November 12, 2012, 05:33:59 pm
I wonder why they use the same damn cpu. The thing is too damn slow for proper graph plotting.
Actually, the Z80 is sufficiently fast enough. TI's code is just really, really inefficient. You could write quite a fast grapher using BBC BASIC.
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: Yeong on November 12, 2012, 05:46:28 pm
so it's still z80 yet color?
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: Adriweb on November 12, 2012, 07:53:15 pm
Nope, because TI apparently said that it was the exact same Z80 processor as the one present in the TI-84+ models.
Well I was not told "the exact same", but rather something like "kind of the same model", so maybe just a bit different (hopefully better frequency....)

And indeed, I/O port present.




EDIT : More info very soon thanks to TechPoweredMath !

Quote from: Tech Powered Math
Just wrapped up with Texas Instruments official Dale Philbrick, who gave me the first interview where TI went on record about the new color TI-84+ C Silver Edition graphing calculator. I've got a ton of information for all of you, including what this means for the future of the TI-Nspire, and I plan to post later tonight."
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DrDnar on November 12, 2012, 08:49:39 pm
Quote from: Zilog documentation
Zilog’s eZ80® CPU is a high-speed, 8-bit microcontroller capable of executing code four times faster than a standard Z80 operating at the same clock speed. The increased processing efficiency of the eZ80 CPU improves available bandwidth and decrease power consumption. The eZ80 CPU’s 8-bit processing power rivals the performance of competitors’ 16-bit microcontrollers.

The eZ80 CPU is also the first 8-bit microcontroller to support 16 MB linear addressing. Each software module, or each task, under a real-time executive or operating system can operate in Z80-compatible (64 KB) mode or full 24-bit (16 MB) address mode.

The eZ80 CPU’s instruction set is a superset of the instruction sets for the Z80 and Z180 CPUs. The Z80 and Z180 programs are executed on an eZ80 CPU with little or no modification.
[emphasis added]
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 13, 2012, 12:52:44 am
Nope, because TI apparently said that it was the exact same Z80 processor as the one present in the TI-84+ models.
Well I was not told "the exact same", but rather something like "kind of the same model", so maybe just a bit different (hopefully better frequency....)

And indeed, I/O port present.




EDIT : More info very soon thanks to TechPoweredMath !

Quote from: Tech Powered Math
Just wrapped up with Texas Instruments official Dale Philbrick, who gave me the first interview where TI went on record about the new color TI-84+ C Silver Edition graphing calculator. I've got a ton of information for all of you, including what this means for the future of the TI-Nspire, and I plan to post later tonight."
Glad to hear. At least we should probably still be able to transfer some programs to 83/83+ users or vice-versa (which lacks an USB port).

Also anyone willing to be that the first ever 84PCSE-only program will be a quadratic solver?
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: calc84maniac on November 13, 2012, 01:02:17 am
No, WFRNG must be the first thing we port.
Title: Re: More info on the TI-84 Plus C Silver Edition: Z80 CPU & rechargeable battery!
Post by: willrandship on November 13, 2012, 01:20:02 am
I'm betting it's a distance formula.