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Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: DJ Omnimaga on November 11, 2007, 10:03:00 pm

Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 11, 2007, 10:03:00 pm
While Liazon and Halifax are currently working on Lost Legends coding, grendel is designing the future sequel of the game. Here are new screenshots:
user posted image
http://omnimaga.org/index.php?showforum=144 to view the lastest project progress.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: spengo on November 12, 2007, 09:57:00 am
wow that looks really nice too! Metroid 2 also. All these new 83+ games coming out... maybe I will use wabbitemu on the nintendo DS to play them, hehe.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Speler on November 12, 2007, 12:04:00 pm
So many RPGs are being made these days... it's awesome.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: kalan_vod on November 12, 2007, 12:40:00 pm
Very nice, and it seems like it is moving quite well!
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Liazon on November 12, 2007, 01:12:00 pm
airship... wow... O_Oshocked2.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: JonimusPrime on November 12, 2007, 02:21:00 pm
QuoteBegin-spengo+12 Nov, 2007, 15:57-->
QUOTE (spengo @ 12 Nov, 2007, 15:57)
wow that looks really nice too! Metroid 2 also. All these new 83+ games coming out... maybe I will use wabbitemu on the nintendo DS to play them, hehe.

Wait you have wabbitemu on your DS?
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: kalan_vod on November 12, 2007, 02:32:00 pm
QuoteBegin-TheStorm+12 Nov, 2007, 20:21-->
QUOTE (TheStorm @ 12 Nov, 2007, 20:21)
QuoteBegin-spengo+12 Nov, 2007, 15:57-->
QUOTE (spengo @ 12 Nov, 2007, 15:57)
wow that looks really nice too! Metroid 2 also. All these new 83+ games coming out... maybe I will use wabbitemu on the nintendo DS to play them, hehe.

Wait you have wabbitemu on your DS?  

 http://www.revsoft.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=748
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 12, 2007, 05:55:00 pm
QuoteBegin-Liazon+12 Nov, 2007, 19:12-->
QUOTE (Liazon @ 12 Nov, 2007, 19:12)
airship... wow... O_Oshocked2.gif

 yeah at least now the Reign of Legends 2, The Reign Of Legends 3, Illusiat 4 and Mana Force 2 aren't the only calc RPGs with an Airship now
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Zera on November 12, 2007, 06:14:00 pm
Lots of ships in this game. One of them is an explorable dungeon.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Xphoenix on November 12, 2007, 06:33:00 pm
Large ship then!

I think this is going to be the first game I've seen where it uses "procured" instead of "you have obtained."
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Zera on November 12, 2007, 07:20:00 pm
"PROCURED" tends to save space in the dialogue window. ;)wink.gif

It also sounded a lot fancier, for some reason...

It was actually something of a quirk I borrowed from a Final Fantasy II translation.

Oh, and don't forget:

user posted image

:Ptongue.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: spengo on November 12, 2007, 07:46:00 pm
lulz I want glass swords. Those were l33t.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Halifax on November 13, 2007, 09:33:00 am
Wow...

*Halifax
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Liazon on November 13, 2007, 02:03:00 pm
i guess you need something that goes over both land and sea ^^
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Ranman on November 13, 2007, 02:18:00 pm
QuoteBegin-DJ Omnimaga+12 Nov, 2007, 4:03-->
QUOTE (DJ Omnimaga @ 12 Nov, 2007, 4:03)
While Liazon and Halifax are currently working on Lost Legends coding, grendel is designing the future sequel of the game. Here are new screenshots:
user posted image
http://omnimaga.org/index.php?showforum=144 to view the lastest project progress.

:gah:fou.gif

Those are some nice screenies! :)smile.gif


Here is one concern of mine...

On the 68K calcs, light gray tends to be the color that is very susceptible to flickering. It is not that noticable in small amounts, but large amounts of contiguous light gray may be hard on the eyes. Do the Z80 calcs experience the same thing?

Hopefully, I won't get chastised too much for my thoughts this time. <_<dry.gif



Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: JonimusPrime on November 13, 2007, 03:50:00 pm
It depends on how they are doing the gray scale but the reason light gray flickers the most noticeably is because of the fact that is is on the screen for the shortest amount of time.  
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: TIfanx1999 on November 13, 2007, 04:05:00 pm
Light gray would be on the screen the shortest amount of time? That doesnt make any sense to me. with 4 level gray there are 3 layers arent there? IIRC; for light gray you would have 2 layers of white and one of black, and for dark gray 2 layers of black and one of white. I could be wrong though as I'm not all that familar with grayscale but i thought that's how it was done. :???:confus.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Liazon on November 13, 2007, 04:13:00 pm
QuoteBegin-Ranman+13 Nov, 2007, 20:18-->
QUOTE (Ranman @ 13 Nov, 2007, 20:18)
On the 68K calcs, light gray tends to be the color that is very susceptible to flickering. It is not that noticable in small amounts, but large amounts of contiguous light gray may be hard on the eyes. Do the Z80 calcs experience the same thing?

Hopefully, I won't get chastised too much for my thoughts this time. <_<dry.gif

 I think so.  I duno whether 68ks use an interlaced routine, but the z80s flicker a bit but not too bad on the light gray.  RGP masks bytes so it's not like you're switching between entire layers.  you're switching between every other pixel i think.  not sure which masks Jim used, but it's close to being that.

@art_of_camelot:

I think you're a bit confused.  For gs, you show the dark layer for twice as long as the light layer.  what ever is on the dark layer looks darkgray, and whatever is on the light layer is light gray.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: JonimusPrime on November 13, 2007, 04:13:00 pm
NO you can do it with two layers and then just have one layer on the screen for 2/3 of the time allowing you to have white light gray dark gray and black.
Edit Liazon beat me  :banghead:banghead.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: TIfanx1999 on November 13, 2007, 04:22:00 pm
Ah, ok. So using 2 layers is the standard? And for light gray u just display it for a lesser duration?Hmm... I really need to study up on grayscale :Ptongue.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Liazon on November 13, 2007, 04:25:00 pm
it's all an illusion ^^

note that real grayscale LCDs don't need to do this.  we have to do this because calc LCDs only support black and white.  it's a pretty good illusion i must say ^^
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: TIfanx1999 on November 13, 2007, 04:53:00 pm
Ya, i know. Would be nice if they gave as a pallet of gray. Heck even the old gameboy had a 4 shade pallet of gray (green ^_^).

P.S. I've heard the new ti inspire does, but as it isn't programmable it doesnt count :Ptongue.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: AaroneusTheGreat on November 13, 2007, 05:34:00 pm
Not programmable yet I emailed them a while back and their PR person told me they were planning it, but they needed to improve the operating system first, so don't discount it yet. Hopefully they weren't lying to me or something  :knight:knight3.gif

This lost legends thing looks freaking amazing, I must say. :)smile.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: nitacku on November 13, 2007, 06:27:00 pm
I'm going to see if I can create 4 lvl grey in basic now :lol:bounce2.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: JonimusPrime on November 13, 2007, 06:29:00 pm
Uh.. Four level in basic will be really hard but maybe doable if you can make it fast enough.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 13, 2007, 06:51:00 pm
the hard part is to draw the sprites, cuz it works a bit like in ASM. The grayscale need to be dithered so the flickering effect is less visible. However, in BASIC you need to dither the sprites manually and store each layers possible (3 for 4 levels, 4 for 5 levels, etc) in pictures, then switch through them quickly. However doing the dithering by hand is a total hassle

The last time I tried there was no speed difference though, but at 5 levels it flickers a lot on the 83+ black edition and it starts to make a whole load of pics. I recommend staying with 3 or 4 level for BASIC.  
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: TIfanx1999 on November 14, 2007, 07:02:00 am
QUOTE
Not programmable yet I emailed them a while back and their PR person told me they were planning it, but they needed to improve the operating system first, so don't discount it yet. Hopefully they weren't lying to me or something

LIES! ALL LIES! :Ptongue.gif It would be REALLY nice if they made it programmable, in additon to the grayscale (built in) I think it had a very high res display as well.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Zera on November 14, 2007, 08:05:00 am
Don't worry, Ranman -- I've had a lot of concerns about my choice of grayscale. While it's something I would like to do, I still have to go through some testing to see if it's plausible. If not, I'll get around to making some changes.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 14, 2007, 09:31:00 am
light gray on 89t flickers very bad if contrast is set too high, on 83+ series it doesnt because of the way grayscale is drawn. On 68k you just flash between two layers quiclky to create gs effect and the light gray one is shown for a shorter amount of time. On 83+ gs is interlaced so its barely visible unless you have a crappy LCD driver like leofox and threefingeredguy
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Halifax on November 14, 2007, 09:57:00 am
Yeah, why has no one tried interlaced grayscale on the 68K? (I have always wondered this)

Either way, good question Ranman.

Yes the NSpire will be programmable, but don't think it is anything close to low-level. There will be no ASM, BASIC, C, or C++, but instead it will be programmable with Java/C# running on a VM. :(sad.gif

Which I have heard can be pretty slow with the Nspire.

(All this information comes straight from a TI Nspire OS developer.)
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 14, 2007, 10:03:00 am
good question halifax. Prbly because ppl found 68k grayscale acceptable, but if they did interlacing they could maybe attempt in-game 8 level gs
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Liazon on November 14, 2007, 11:58:00 am
QuoteBegin-Halifax+14 Nov, 2007, 15:57-->
QUOTE (Halifax @ 14 Nov, 2007, 15:57)
Yeah, why has no one tried interlaced grayscale on the 68K? (I have always wondered this)

Either way, good question Ranman.

Yes the NSpire will be programmable, but don't think it is anything close to low-level. There will be no ASM, BASIC, C, or C++, but instead it will be programmable with Java/C# running on a VM. :(sad.gif

Which I have heard can be pretty slow with the Nspire.

(All this information comes straight from a TI Nspire OS developer.)  

 what??  C! C! C! or ARM ASM.  maybe they're afraid someone will write a GBA emu or something XDsmiley.gifXDsmiley.gifXDsmiley.gif jk

ya, maybe interlacing isn't used because the LCD is memory mapped and it does take awhile to copy stuff around.  duno if interlaced would be better for whatever speed loss.  idk, maybe Kevin Kofler knows.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Ranman on November 14, 2007, 05:05:00 pm
QuoteBegin-Halifax+14 Nov, 2007, 15:57-->
QUOTE (Halifax @ 14 Nov, 2007, 15:57)
Yes the NSpire will be programmable, but don't think it is anything close to low-level. There will be no ASM, BASIC, C, or C++, but instead it will be programmable with Java/C# running on a VM.


Java? C#? :vomit:vomit.gif

:rofl:rotfl.gif

So... basically you are saying that our 12MHz calcs are going to run circles around it. :w00t:woot.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Halifax on November 14, 2007, 05:25:00 pm
Haha, yeah that was basically what I was trying to say.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 14, 2007, 06:02:00 pm
Actually Java is now actually good, quite surprising considered how it sucked only like one year ago. Now it is fast and all, Telroth on IRC even tested it. However, not everyone would like to work with it necessarly and on calc it would be really slow
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Halifax on November 14, 2007, 06:10:00 pm
A language in essence is fast or slow. It is just a language.

The implementation of that language leads to whether it is fast or not. The fact of the matter is though that a VM on the Nspire is not something desirable, and you will probably only be getting 83+ basic-like games out of it with Java/C#

Also the bottom-line on speed is that Java/C# will never be able to have the same features as C/C++ and be as fast. It is impossible.
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: AaroneusTheGreat on November 15, 2007, 11:06:00 am
Yea, but you guys are missing the big thing here, there is a virtual machine, which could be really good for us. Simply disassemble the virtual machine built into the ROM, and it'll give you every possible processor function. And in the form that the calculator understands. (you'd have to wade through a whole lot of stuff and it would take a while, but it'd be a lot faster than trial and error with a ROM dump.)

So it's like a programming guide built in for anyone who wants to hack it. Then all you'd need to do is back up the memory with a whitebread (blank, no substance :Ptongue.gif) program of some sort that you have created and then modify the pointer to the data to point to another variable that you have created, using a hex editor of some sort, so that when you run the whitebread program, it'll run the instructions you saved in this other variable instead.

That would be a way to create a shell, then all you do is create a TASM like system to write the commands to a file from a text file you write on your computer, fix the checksum (which you'd need to do with the backup too) and send it to the calc.

Then you can run the programs through this shell you made before.

Same way they made the shell for the 82. (the first was ASH and then CrASH came after that)

Or, if they decide to give it app support, you could much more simply write a shell as an app, and have that run your programs.

Wasn't this topic about Lost Legends II ? :Ptongue.gif:Ptongue.gif:Ptongue.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Liazon on November 15, 2007, 03:47:00 pm
it'd be nice if java had optimized compilers for direct compilation, instead of being JIT

i think they should have given C/ARM asm a chance.  seriously, nspire has a lot of potential hopefully.

and ya, maybe LL3 will be on nspire ^^
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Zera on November 15, 2007, 03:50:00 pm
LL3 is likely going to be planned for 83/84, like the others. It's also going to be a side-scrolling action / adventure ordeal, like Zelda II.

(but no, I'm not working on it at the moment) :Ptongue.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 15, 2007, 04:21:00 pm
QuoteBegin-grendel+15 Nov, 2007, 21:5-->
QUOTE (grendel @ 15 Nov, 2007, 21:50)
LL3  

 ._.

Plz finish LL1 first then LL2 x.x
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Zera on November 15, 2007, 06:12:00 pm
Hey, you brought it up. I was just saying I've *thought* about it. Of course, I'm still working on the first two. :Ptongue.gif
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 15, 2007, 06:24:00 pm
*DJ Omnimaga
Title: New Lost Legends II screenshots
Post by: Liazon on November 17, 2007, 01:34:00 pm
we'll get them done :)smile.gif