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Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: critor on August 31, 2013, 08:13:43 am

Title: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on August 31, 2013, 08:13:43 am
In a previous news (http://ourl.ca/19460), we announced you the arrival for back to school 2013 of a new TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless and anti-Nlaunch.

Indeed, Nlaunch and Ndless require respectively 3.1 versions of the Boot2 and system. These new calculators come with the latest version 3.2.4 of Boot2 and system, and feature a new hardware revision 'J' as engraved on the back (11th version) on which Boot2 3.1 is doesn't run properly. It is therefore impossible to install Nlaunch there, which prevents to put system 3.1 and then consequently forbirds to use Ndless. :(
(http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image.php?mode=thumbnail&image_id=2876) (http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?image_id=2876)

Strangely on the old TI-Nspire CX hardware revision A to I, even after upgrading to the latest 3.2.4 version it is possible (painfully) to reinstall the 3.1 Boot2. So new TI-Nspire CX hardware J must include something new we are going to discover together:
(http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image.php?mode=medium&image_id=2878) (http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?image_id=2878)

You don't see anything special? The board looks like previous boards? Wait a minute, we will compare to compare them thoroughly for the TI-Nspire CX CAS:
Hardware revisionMotherboardASICBoot1NANDKeyboardDockboardPhoto
AFirebird Color MB 6422ET-NS2010B-13.0.0.99Samsung K511F12ACA-B075Firebird Color KB EVT 4421Firebird Color BTB EVT1.2 2412(http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image.php?mode=thumbnail&image_id=1229) (http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?image_id=1229)
BFirebird Color MB 6422ET-NS2010B-13.0.0.99Samsung K511F12ACA-B075Firebird Color KB EVT 4421Firebird Color BTB EVT1.2 2412(http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image.php?mode=thumbnail&image_id=2634) (http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?image_id=2634)
CFirebird Color MB 6422ET-NS2010B-13.0.0.99Samsung K511F12ACA-B075Firebird Color KB EVT 4421Firebird Color BTB EVT1.2 2412(http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image.php?mode=thumbnail&image_id=1227) (http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?image_id=1227)
DFirebird Color MB 6422ET-NS2010B-13.0.0.99Samsung K511F12ACA-B075Firebird Color KB EVT 4421Firebird Color BTB EVT1.2 2412(http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image.php?mode=thumbnail&image_id=2397) (http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?image_id=2397)
FFirebird Color MB 6430
(http://i.imgur.com/mLK7DOk.gif)		ET-NS2010B-13.0.0.99Samsung K511F12ACA-B075Firebird Color KB EVT 4421Firebird Color BTB EVT1.2 2412(http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image.php?mode=thumbnail&image_id=2398) (http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?image_id=2398)
JNSC CR MB 4440
(http://i.imgur.com/mLK7DOk.gif)		ET-NS2010B-13.0.0.99ESMT FM60D1G12A
(http://i.imgur.com/mLK7DOk.gif)		Firebird cas Color KB DVT 4424
(http://i.imgur.com/mLK7DOk.gif)		Firebird Color BTB EVT1.2 2412(http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image.php?mode=thumbnail&image_id=2878) (http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image_page.php?image_id=2878)

Despite the similar architecture, the new HW-J does actually provides many new features.

Some things didn't change like the Boot1 (still version 3.0.0.99) or the ASIC chip (still en ET-NS2010B-1).

But besides that we have many new things:
The internal J04 connector did offer access to the RS232 serial console like the lower J01/Dock connector. It was therefore particularly useful on the TI- Nspire CM calculators which don't have the Dock connector. But its presence on the TI-Nspire CX is not an absurdity, as it is supposed to give access to the JTAG protocol. It can be particularly useful during the manufacturing process in order to perform the initial programming of chips, but also for reprogramming the chips of a TI-Nspire which no longer boots. To my knowledge, it has never been used by the community and so we are surprised by this removal. But apparently TI prefers to remove some way of repairing the TI-Nspire in order to secure it, and might just scrap and replace new TI-Nspire CX if they're ever returned for repair instead of reinitializing.

So there is a new NAND chip by ESMT which replaces the Samsung chip which was thete since the beginning. It is certainly possible that this chip is responsible for the Boot2 3.1 error, but normally it's a 128MB NAND chip like the old one.

But the most surprising thing is the new motherboard with a completely new reference. After Firebird_Color_MB_6422 and Firebird_Color_MB_6430 we get a NSC_CR_MB_4440, a hint of big changes
Precisely, we think we had already discovered an previous version of this new motherboard in a previous news (http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11628) on a chinese TI-Nspire CX sample which had a sticker on the back suggesting the use of 4 layers:
(http://imgur.com/WYpggcxs.jpg) (http://imgur.com/WYpggcx.jpg) (http://i72.servimg.com/u/f72/13/23/13/53/th/2_210.jpg) (http://i72.servimg.com/u/f72/13/23/13/53/2_210.jpg)

Although it was supposed to be a hardware revision C the motherboard was different than the above revision C. Even if the NAND chip remained the Samsung one, the J04 connector was missing and the reference was already similar to the hardware revision J one: NSC_CR_MB_4420 instead of NSC_CR_MB_4440.



In the end, I think I've brought more questions than answers and we still need to pull the puzzle pieces together. But such hardware security enforcement may be followed by a software security enforcement in the next 3.6 system.



Source:
http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12898&lang=en
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Sorunome on August 31, 2013, 12:57:46 pm
They do everything they can to block ndless out x.x
That sucks.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: njaddison on September 01, 2013, 12:40:47 am
Arggghhhh...
Why must TI do everything in their power to stop us?
osLauncher doesn't half-work, yet they still want to stop us.
If TI were smart, they would embrace ndless. It's another sad example of third party programmers achieving more than the actual company is. ndless allows password protection, overclocking, and games, all of which have limited (games) to no support (password, overclock) on the normal nspire. I'll always love ndless, and if TI wants to try to stop that, then screw them!!!
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 01, 2013, 12:51:04 am
Nah, if TI were smart, they would instead spend more effort on:

-Fixing old bugs that have been around for years, if not decades (on certain calcs)
-Rather than locking ASM/C programs entirely, work harder on locking down the teacher mode and such stuff, so that even ASM programs can't tamper with them (then the TI community would unite to discourage people from posting cheating programs).
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on September 01, 2013, 03:26:19 am
Anybody's got a TI-Nspire CX with the missing hardware revisions E, G, H or I?
Could you take a photo of the boards?
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Lionel Debroux on September 01, 2013, 03:28:24 am
Quote
osLauncher doesn't half-work, yet they still want to stop us.
While OSLauncher does indeed not work well, nLaunch (January 1st, 2013) / nLaunch CX (April 1st, 2013) / nLaunchy (the improved version) works very well ;)
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Streetwalrus on September 01, 2013, 05:59:32 am
Quote from: critor on September 01, 2013, 03:26:19 am
Anybody's got a TI-Nspire CX with the missing hardware revisions E, G, H or I?
Could you take a photo of the boards?
Apparently Legimet has E.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on September 01, 2013, 08:05:24 am
Then it would be interesting to check if Legimet already has the new Firebird_Color_MB_6430 motherboard, still the old Firebird_Color_MB_6422, or something intermediate.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Legimet on September 01, 2013, 01:17:40 pm
Yes, my TI-Nspire CX which I received this May has hardware revision E. I could open it up and check when I have time.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on September 01, 2013, 01:18:19 pm
Great! :D
Title: Re:
Post by: binly on September 02, 2013, 02:19:14 am
I have I, I could probably open it up if I knew how to.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 02, 2013, 02:21:48 am
Aren't the screws located inside the battery case?
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on September 02, 2013, 04:24:32 am
Once the battery cover is removed, there are 6 remaining screws.

2 screws are on the bottom and need a torx screwdriver.

The remaining 4 screws have an uncommon head type, but you can use a flat-head screwdriver with them.
2 of them are inside the battery case.
The other 2 are hidden under both top pads.


Once all screws are removed, you just have to firmly press the board inside the battery case in order to separate it from the back case.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Legimet on September 02, 2013, 10:25:37 am
In my Nspire, there are 6 screws right under the battery pack, which I unscrewed. Now i need to find a torx screwdriver...

EDIT: What type of screwdriver is required for the screw under the top pad?

(http://img.ourl.ca/IMG_0502.JPG)

EDIT 2: It looks like a One-way (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-way_screw#One-way) screw, which needs a special tool to remove it. :(
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Lionel Debroux on September 02, 2013, 10:29:54 am
Sometimes, a hexagonal screwdriver which has the exact right size can unscrew a Torx screw.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on September 02, 2013, 11:32:40 am
Quote from: Legimet on September 02, 2013, 10:25:37 am
EDIT: What type of screwdriver is required for the screw under the top pad?

(http://img.ourl.ca/IMG_0502.JPG)

EDIT 2: It looks like a One-way (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-way_screw#One-way) screw, which needs a special tool to remove it. :(

As written above, a thin enough flat-head screwdriver can be used with those screws.
I've had no problem with this on many CX ;)
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Legimet on September 02, 2013, 11:57:38 am
I'm trying a flathead screwdriver and its not opening.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on September 02, 2013, 12:03:45 pm
Do you have another size ?
It just has to be thin enough and to be pressed firmly at the center of the screw while turning it.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on September 02, 2013, 05:39:30 pm
At least, can you tell us if Ndless/Nlaunch work on your HW-I ?
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Legimet on September 02, 2013, 06:00:18 pm
Mine is a hardware E, and Ndless and Nlaunchy both run on it ;)
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on September 02, 2013, 06:48:31 pm
Thanks - perfectly normal on HW-E, as Ndless+Nlaunch work on HW-F too.

I'm wondering about hardware revisions G, H and I.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on September 03, 2013, 11:25:27 am
So up to now, we've been reported hardware revisions J manufactured in march and april 2013.


We've just been reported on the TI-Planet chat a new hardware revision K, manufactured in june 2013 - and would gladly accept pictures from its motherboard too.
Of course it did came with OS/Boot2 3.2.4 preloaded too.

We don't know if it's a minor revision of hardware revision J, or if they did add some more evilness in it.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on September 05, 2013, 12:36:30 am
Or maybe an emergency update, although then a decent company would at least attempt a mass recall of J units, if they were faulty.

That said, I wonder if TI could be bad enough to mass recall all hardware revisions from 0 and A to J to get as many calc in the world replaced with K models to have even fewer people be able to use Ndless? It would be very expensive for TI, but seeing what they are doing, I wonder if they would dare going to such extent?
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Springyboy on December 21, 2013, 11:45:47 pm
I've got a cx cas hardware revision H, which used to have nlaunch and ndless on it.

Unfortunately, now i've got 3.6 on it and I can't downgrade.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 22, 2013, 02:49:28 pm
The good thing is that there could be a new Ndless at one point, as mentionned in http://ndlessly.wordpress.com/2013/09/18/on-the-way-to-ndless-3-2/#comments . It claims that it will be for the most recent OS, but the comment where it says that was written in November, before OS 3.6 officially came out. So if it's Ndless for OS 3.2.4 then it won't solve the 3.6 issue. If it's for 3.6, then YAY, but I bet that TI will release OS 3.6.1 or 3.9 within the next weeks after Ndless release. :P

Then we run into a second problem: Most Ndless 3.1 programs will most likely not run on Ndless 3.2 or 3.6, since the same thing happened to Ndless 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0 programs.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Levak on December 22, 2013, 03:51:58 pm
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on December 22, 2013, 02:49:28 pm
Then we run into a second problem: Most Ndless 3.1 programs will most likely not run on Ndless 3.2 or 3.6, since the same thing happened to Ndless 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0 programs.
This is a false statement since Ndless 1.0 didn't had a syscall manager and Ndless 2.0 didnt had bflt linker. Now with all of that Ndless programs should be portable. The only issue are for programs that uses custom Syscalls such as patches (ex : nClock, ThemeEditor, etc.).

Btw, no clue makes anyone sure ExtendeD managed to have a running shellcode on 3.2, he only said he was starting considering Nless 3.2 as a possibility, not as a working jailbreak. In other words, without a usable flaw, ExtendeD can't do anything.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 22, 2013, 03:59:00 pm
But will the user have to modify his program to run on the new Ndless? That would be the problem, since many authors who wrote Ndless 3.1 programs are now gone since long ago and will not have any interest in updating their programs. Even if the required changes were minimal, this would still be a problem for abandoned games and softwares. But of course, if Ndless 3.2 or whatever do perfectly run unmodified 3.1 programs, then we're safe I guess.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: Levak on December 22, 2013, 07:22:23 pm
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on December 22, 2013, 03:59:00 pm
But will the user have to modify his program to run on the new Ndless? That would be the problem, since many authors who wrote Ndless 3.1 programs are now gone since long ago and will not have any interest in updating their programs. Even if the required changes were minimal, this would still be a problem for abandoned games and softwares. But of course, if Ndless 3.2 or whatever do perfectly run unmodified 3.1 programs, then we're safe I guess.

If you remember correctly, when Ndless 3.1 came out, you didnt need to recompile the programs, otherwise it was because you used custom syscalls
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 22, 2013, 07:23:53 pm
I sadly don't remember that. Since almost every 2.0 programmer was gone when Ndless 3.1 came out, I thought that it was because Ndless 2.0 programs simply couldn't run at all no matter what.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: critor on December 23, 2013, 02:14:46 pm
You didn't need to recompile for ClickPad/TouchPad.

But for CX, you did need to... at least because of the different screen.
I think the confusion is coming from this.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 23, 2013, 02:16:13 pm
Oh, that might explain it, since the new models only had OS 3.x.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: rndmboyz3 on January 30, 2014, 07:12:14 pm
So will Hardwear J ever have a software exploit or hack like ndlessly? I need to know because if not I will sell or trade this device. if it is definitely possible and many people are working hard on it what would be an approximate release date? any tips or advice like, how a n00b can help and what to do in the meantime with it?-can i get anything at all?
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: trogfield on December 12, 2014, 04:39:08 pm
Quote from: Legimet on September 01, 2013, 01:17:40 pm
Yes, my TI-Nspire CX which I received this May has hardware revision E. I could open it up and check when I have time.

i know this post is old, but i have G and H boards
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 12, 2014, 09:11:22 pm
Basically, your calculator should be able to use nLaunchy and OS 3.1 through 3.9. Hardware J and higher now can downgrade from 3.9 to 3.6 but not 3.1 and they can't use nLaunchy.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: trogfield on December 12, 2014, 10:16:51 pm
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on December 12, 2014, 09:11:22 pm
Basically, your calculator should be able to use nLaunchy and OS 3.1 through 3.9. Hardware J and higher now can downgrade from 3.9 to 3.6 but not 3.1 and they can't use nLaunchy.
who are you responding to? im gonna post board pics after recovering from a long day.
Title: Re: New TI-Nspire CX anti-Ndless hardware J
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on December 12, 2014, 10:27:32 pm
To your post. I was making sure that you were aware about recent developments, since this topic is extremely old and outdated.