so your nSpire is locked down? if so, how can you delvelope Ndless 2.0 then? :(
It would be nice to release Ndless for OS 1.7 now...
Uh-oh this means something far more annoying. Any new Ti-Nspires most likely will have this pre-installed...
yeah.. if os 2.1 is downgradable to os 1.7 + 2.0, then whats the big deal since that's what ndless is gonna be on anyways
that is true.. i just hope my nspire doesn't come pre-shipped with it installed already! :sWhat if OS 2.1 fixed every possible exploit (there are always holes somewhere, but sometimes, we never know) allowing installing any form of Ndless? Sure, the OS allows downgrading to OS 2.0.1, which, eventually, might have Ndless, but has anyone tested the new OS on the touchpad Nspires? Can they even be downgraded from OS 2.1 like the others did (to OS 1.7 through 2.0)?
edit: just realized something.. reason of not upgrading is to downgrade to os 1.1.. but if the nspire cas with touchpad can't do that anyways, would it make a difference for the touchpad models?
What I mean is, I remember teachers complaining about the Ti-83+, Ti-84+, etc. being able to hold custom games students could play in class, so I didn't know if TI was trying to prevent it for the NspireThat could be a possibility, but I doubt it. Calc gaming has been huge for at least a decade. Over one year before I got my own graphing calc, my brother was talking about how at the school he was going to, a bunch of people were playing Tetris on their TI-82 calculators. When I started going to that school, in 2000, I saw by myself, then I got a calc in 2001 and saw even more, since I started going in classes that required a calc. Games in classes has been a problem for much longer than that I am sure, because I played TI-82 games dating from 1994 before. I am sure TI would have done something long before that if it was such a big problem to them.
the war has just begun.
Would it be possible for TI to remove assembly support on a newer version of the TI-OS (83+/84+) or AMS (68k calcs)?
Or, rather than outright do that, they could just release a really buggy OS that messes with a lot of existing assembly programs, slows down anything dealing with the home screen, introduces compatibility problems...
Would it be possible for TI to remove assembly support on a newer version of the TI-OS (83+/84+) or AMS (68k calcs)?
Or, rather than outright do that, they could just release a really buggy OS that messes with a lot of existing assembly programs, slows down anything dealing with the home screen, introduces compatibility problems...
You know what? They allready did it.
OS 2.53MP for the TI-84+ is buggy, slows down anything dealing with the home screen, introduces compatibility problems...
TI is far more evil than you can imagine, you know...
That is strange that they suddenly stopped supporting ASM programs. I would think that TI started developing the TI-Nspire in 2004, about three years before it came out. Maybe TI asked teachers what they wanted to see in a new calculator and they asked for games to be blocked?- I definitely think that is part of the reason for games being blocked. Education is a big purchaser of their products. They'd be dumb not listen to what the teachers wanted. And I know my teachers back in high school hated the kids playing calc games. However to block the functionality of a product (ASM) on the 83s/84+ would be stupid as well. The underground movement, if you will of developers, users and the forums past and present is huge. It has become a great hobby for many and for me at least made me believe that I could do this programming stuff and pushed me forward into other languages and platforms.
Would it be possible for TI to remove assembly support on a newer version of the TI-OS (83+/84+) or AMS (68k calcs)?Of course. But now that we have factored all public RSA signing keys and deduced the private keys, it wouldn't be such a big deal. And even before that, as far as TI-68k calculators were concerned (it's different for TI-Z80 calcs), the unfixable exploit to modify the OS at will has been known for 10-11 years.
Altough I am not very active right now, I just saw this after returning from work and was very dissapointed by Texas Instruments.Dug this, Can you Dig it sucka? (Translation more people dig this!)
Something I have been wondering, is this legal from them? Are they allowed by human software rights to prevent people from using the OS they want on the handheld they BOUGHT?
They are really going far, now, and IMHO, this deserves to be seen by the rest of the world, not just the community. Because of this, I have decided to submit this to Digg.
Link below:
http://digg.com/software/Texas_Instruments_takes_control_of_their_TI_Nspire_customers
If enough people digg this article, it will show up on Digg front page and more people will see it, then it will get spread among other sites, if they consider this as worthy as the similar crap Apple and Sony has been doing with their products.
Does anyone know the french equivalent of Digg? It should be submitted there too, linking to TI-BANK. I wonder if it would be Slashdot-worthy?
Anyway critor, I am moving this on front page. The 30132 posts in a year record breaking can wait. Thanks a lot for letting us know about this. I am gonna edit your news, adding a third link, to the Digg article.
Please, people, do not upgrade, even those with the Touchpad! What if TI blocked every possible ways to install Ndless on this OS?
I would imagine in March when the next version of the
OS is realsed, you would see some things to get excited about.
This. is. WAR!
I could imagine what a lot of talk in that google group is like :P
Some of their discussion makes me sick because they praise some of the useless features of the nspire and say bad things about ndless. I only read it to find out news about the Nspire, like this. This is also where I found out about OS 2.1.Well, they are teachers :P (lol, j/k, I've had some really good teachers)
You are right, this is war. The community has to do something to stop this. Maybe we can prepare a ton of C/ASM programs for the Nspire to be released at the same time and then get a large feature on ticalc.org to try to lure users into sticking with OS 1.1?Interesting idea. Possibly better is to create programs for OS 1.7, and when Ndless is released for that OS, release them all at once, since new Nspires will come with 2.1
Some of their discussion makes me sick because they praise some of the useless features of the nspire and say bad things about ndless. I only read it to find out news about the Nspire, like this. This is also where I found out about OS 2.1.Well, they are teachers :P
1. Thhis iss, baad
2. I didnt try it out, but it seems all that "new math functions" is a bunch of hyped up crap, only feature is the block
3. Damnit, just damnit
I have applied for membership on that Google group. If people there are posting too many uninformed or hostile crap, then we should try gently fixing them :)
Nspire has BASIC, actually, albeit in a limited form, w/o getkey and such. Not good for making games without getkey, though. (TI probably did this on purpose)
What input? I only have disp and the variables you define at the begining, or did I miss something?
Will anyone slashdot this? I don't know how, but the "Submit story" button at the top right looks promising. Actually, I think Critor should do it, since he was the one who found the 'bug'.
The TI-Nspire Docking Station which needs OS 2.1 will be the 3rd attack... and the next OS in march with 3D graphing and maybe a paying sdk will be the 4th and 5th attack.
We have to strike back before that...
critor, when you say "paying sdk" do you mean a sdk that can be used to develop programs (games) in ASM/C or one that can only be used to create TI-Nspire documents like on calc.
When something's submitted to Slashdot, do you give a link to the article so we can vote it up? Or is it up to the admins there?It can be up-voted and down-voted by those who have an account (or maybe just the subscribers ? I am subscribed, in any case) and by the mods.
Also, I hope there's a way to modify the TI-Nspire OS header to remove the downgrade protection or allowing an older OS to be installed (maybe changing the version number of an old OS?) without having to go through the whole 1024 bit key factoring process...
Unless, of course, we somehow convince TI that Ndless isn't evil.
"This is not about copyright infringement. This is about running your own software on your own device -- a calculator you legally bought,"- EFF Civil Liberties Director Jennifer Granick
Yeah, but why not at least start the factoring of the keys with boinc like we did last time, and eventually as computing power increases (Well GPUs are really the powerhouses now) we will have it .... ok still in a looong time, but at least eventually we'll have it!I don't disagree with that- I'm just saying that concentrating all the community's resources on it right now might not be a good idea. Because in the short term, hacking 1.7, or 2.0 or 2.1, will be much more beneficial. And probably easier/faster to do, too.
critor, will this menu help in allowing downgrades?
Short term yes, but TI will just as easily release a new update blocking it again.Yeah, but why not at least start the factoring of the keys with boinc like we did last time, and eventually as computing power increases (Well GPUs are really the powerhouses now) we will have it .... ok still in a looong time, but at least eventually we'll have it!I don't disagree with that- I'm just saying that concentrating all the community's resources on it right now might not be a good idea. Because in the short term, hacking 1.7, or 2.0 or 2.1, will be much more beneficial. And probably easier/faster to do, too.
@critor Good job! You must tell how you found that.
DJ, I am afraid so, if it wasnt for the fact you can put Cas on a non-CAS, all legal issues would be easily defeated, and ndless2 would be out.
oh man... this does not sound good
critor, do we know if the touchpad is compatible with OS 1.1. I have a touchpad for my clickpad. Would you like me to test it?
DJ, I am afraid so, if it wasnt for the fact you can put Cas on a non-CAS, all legal issues would be easily defeated, and ndless2 would be out.
The thing is, that would require someone else breaking the law ... not us. If what were doing is completely legal then why does that affect us? If I made a blueprint for making a baseball bat then why cant I share it with my friends? because someone might use that to kill someone? I think thats ridiculous.
Piracy is everywhere ...(analogy time again!) Just because you can have custom firmware for the PSP that *can* allow piracy and ripped isos, far more people use it for legitimate reasons and to add ridiculously awesome new features that Sony would never take the time to add.
Fear of other people using it to break the law shouldn't stop us as long as WE don't! :)
Apparently yes, but please realize that it is illegal.
So what is? ???
*calcdude is confused
Right, but being the same hardware, it would probably be easier. I think you are paying for software here, but I don't really know. If the CAS os were to easily update onto the non-CAS, then that could be a problem for TIhttp://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/homePage/nspire-exam-acceptance.html
I have actually not seen any Nspires being allowed at standardized testing facilities. Then again, I haven't seen them banned either. Does anyone know if they are legal or not?
Apparently yes, but please realize that it is illegal.
I think you are paying for software hereWe do, otherwise the TI-Nspire CAS would be cheaper than the regular Nspire (since it doesn't come with an additional 84+ keypad)
By installing a CAS on a non-CAS you would kinda be stealing $45 from TI, depending of where you bought your machine.Or looking at it the other way round, we could say that TI is charging a premium of [$45 + price of 84+ ClickPad keyboard] from those who buy a Nspire CAS.
I would love to have the CAS OS on the non CAS.Indeed. And TI's attacks on the community are making it more likely that this occurs.
It is one of the most anti-TI things we can do. ;)
Btw I think that Nelson Sousa guy on the TI-Nspire Google group is not any better than the people who commented on Slashdot. He bashes TI-BANK claiming the forums is useless (quite ironic considering it's listed in his website links section http://www.nelsonsousa.pt/index.php?lang=en&cat=4&subcat=0&article=0 ). To me, though, he seems like a troll, so he should probably be ignored. I think the way he replied to TI-BANK admin speaks by itself: http://tibank.forumactif.com/blabla-f18/crachons-sur-ti-bank-t5814.htm
It kinda reminds me someone with the initials KK, who always seemed against Nspire dev. As the guys on TI-BANK said, I think the guy is just jealous TI-BANK is successful. I could not find his forum, though, if he has one.
"Not a whole lot to say other than download it when you can. The TE
software has changed a TON!! Looks like amazing file management
possibilities. More stuff to figure out during the summer!
Also looking forward to the new ways to sort bar graphs! I was
putting together TI-nspire notes for my AP Statistics class at the end
of the school year, and there was an example I was putting in that I
wanted the ability to sort alphabetically to show a point....and I
couldn't at the time. PERFECT TIMING TI!!
What are your thoughts and impressions on the new update?"
"Slider improvements, YAY!"
Seriously, this crap makes me gag
"Not a whole lot to say other than download it when you can. The TEWhere was this? Was it on the Google group ?
software has changed a TON!! Looks like amazing file management
possibilities. More stuff to figure out during the summer!
Also looking forward to the new ways to sort bar graphs! I was
putting together TI-nspire notes for my AP Statistics class at the end
of the school year, and there was an example I was putting in that I
wanted the ability to sort alphabetically to show a point....and I
couldn't at the time. PERFECT TIMING TI!!
What are your thoughts and impressions on the new update?"
"Slider improvements, YAY!"
Seriously, this crap makes me gag
"Beware of the fact that the 2.1 version of the Nspire OS prevents downgrading to a version inferior or equal to 1.6, even though "everything you may try..." - You'd better stay on the 2.0 version of the OS."Thanks for translating. :)
Do we really have to make sure it's impossible to put the CAS OS on a non-CAS? To me, it sounds like this is the only reason Ndless 2.0 isn't out, and with TI's reaction I think Ndless 2.0 is the perfect response. :)Better not let put CAS OS into non-CAS to avoid trouble. I think is ok and I would enjoy to have CAS applications to non-CAS and a TI-84+SE emulator to CAS.
I seriously doubt the font has ever been monospaced. I might be wrong, though, seeing as I don't own an Nspire. :P
but at least keeping it minimally active to release updates after some months.They do, watch the SVN trunk :)
Do we really have to make sure it's impossible to put the CAS OS on a non-CAS?IMO, we're less bound to such moral considerations now that TI attacked Ndless twice... it would be a pretty powerful retaliation against TI. But yeah, TI would sue the trouble-makers to death.
To me, it sounds like this is the only reason Ndless 2.0 isn't outNope, it is not. Galandros pointed one of the two reasons.
Okay, I must agree with that. :)QuoteDo we really have to make sure it's impossible to put the CAS OS on a non-CAS?IMO, we're less bound to such moral considerations now that TI attacked Ndless twice...
Ah, okay. Thanks for clarifying. :DQuoteTo me, it sounds like this is the only reason Ndless 2.0 isn't outNope, it is not.
does the current ndless allow putting a cas onto a non-cas?Not as is, but yes if you have the runos program, which has never been distributed.
They do, watch the SVN trunk :)Nice. :D
IMO, we're less bound to such moral considerations now that TI attacked Ndless twice... it would be a pretty powerful retaliation against TI. But yeah, TI would sue the trouble-makers to death.
Seeing what we are getting from TI despite that (lawyers letters, evil downgrade protections, censored facebook comments, disabled facebook accounts...) I would say "let's not care anymore!".The downgrade has just one good justification: avoid downgrade to OSes with bugs, especially the shut down one. But if they did for this reason, they wouldn't disable to OSes past that bug. The coincidence of disable on OS versions that Ndless support is not ignorable.
Anyway, they'll keep striking at us, whatever we do.
Anyway... up to now, we've been avoiding putting CAS stuff into non-CAS calculators (runos developped but not released, 68k emulator developped but not released...).
So we've been very nice with TI.
Err, no, sorry DJ, I deleted my facebook 14 days before 2.1 came out, I deleted by myself, some of the friend requests that I accepted would not look goood if I applied for a job. :/Aaah ok I see. I personally just never put my personal info except my province/state/country, real name, email and age on there, because I don't really want to take chances. I don't mind as much over this forum or IRC, though, about my city. I'm glad it is not TI, though.
Heheh Funny, my FB's deletion was finally processed and executed on the day of OS 2.1
If linux does come out, it'll probably be just command-line. Programs will have to have their GUI built in. It would just be too hard to port programs with guis meant for computers.Not necessarily: Linux does support framebuffers, and we can use (or write) toolkits on top of that.
I wonder if with a new OS, the processor could actually be slowed down even more during less demanding tasks? It would help saving battery life even more.As far as I know, yes this should be very possible. It would be pretty nice too. =)