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Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: persalteas on June 14, 2013, 04:35:03 am

Title: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: persalteas on June 14, 2013, 04:35:03 am
OS 3.2.4. It is not available yet on Texas Instruments' website, but the latest TI-Nspire CX made ​​come with a new OS, the 3.2.4.1237 (source (http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12304)).

The TI-OSes include an "anti-downgrade" protection, a minimal installable OS version that they write in the NAND memory between the Boot2 and the Diags, an inaccessible area to different official reset procedures.

When installing, the OS 3.1.0.392 increases this minimum version to 3.0.2.1785 if the number was lower.
Similarly, the OSes 3.2.0/3.2.2/3.2.3 increase it to 3.1.0.392.

It officially becomes impossible to reinstall an OS version prior to the programmed number.
In practice, it was possible via two methods:
According to  a report this morning (http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12356) on TI-Planet, it seems that the OS 3.2.4.1237 greatly increases the minimum number of installable version that ... to a value which now refuses to install any previous OS to date, including OS 3.1, 3.2.0 or even 3.2.3!  D:

Therefore, if your new TI-Nspire comes with OS 3.2.4 or if you update your calculator with this OS, it officially becomes impossible for you to use Ndless because requiring the OS 3.1 and this just a few days of the exams. :(

The added bonus, the CAS-engine bugs introduced with OS 3.2 and not present on the OS 3.1 such as roots quotients (http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10945) are still here, and the prohibition to return to a version with CAS that worked better is simply incomprehensible from the point of view of users, even just a few days of the exams.
(http://i11.servimg.com/u/f11/13/23/13/53/casbug11.png)

But does it remains always possible to override the anti-downgrade protection with nLaunch?

The OS 3.2.4 contains as added bonus a new version of the boot2: 3.2.4.4 against 3.1.0.16 since the OS 3.1.0.392.

nLaunch exploited a flaw in the boot2 3.1.0.16, and you can bet, I think, that it has been corrected.

Therefore it also becomes officially impossible to use nLaunch and number of legitimate applications like:
It can be assumed that this OS 3.2.4.1237 is a response to the recent use of TI-Nspire CX launching TI-Nspire CX CAS OSes to the Portuguese exams that prohibit CAS (http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12227), possibility that allows nLaunch although this has never been the goal of the authors (not mentioned in the ReadMe).

The only feasible and untested bypass to date would be the reprogramming of the boot2 3.1.0.16 via a TTL / USB adapter (called RS232) to connect to the Dock of the TI-Nspire:
(http://tiplanet.org/forum/gallery/image.php?mode=medium&album_id=4&image_id=31)

So we especially recommend you to not update your calculator to OS 3.2.4, if ever it appeared in the coming days.

And if you already have a TI-Nspire CX with OS 3.2.4, to date you must certainly not erase it. Indeed, as it is not available on TI's website and as all existing OS are rejected, you will find yourself with a calculator without any OS usable! Again, a few days of the exams, it is not very smart ...  ::)

Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 14, 2013, 05:02:44 am
Let's mention that the first post is a copy of http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12360&lang=en

I posted my own take on the matter slightly before critor did, he didn't notice my message about the fact I was going to post a news item: http://tiplanet.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12359&lang=en .

Declaring that kind of full out war to users will only worsen the attacks on the business model. Neither my explanations to TI Education's top-level executives in 2011, nor the PTTKillers (released by multiple independent persons as retaliation to OS 3.2.0.1212 closing a hole) and nLaunch (which allows running Linux, as a special case of running "any OS"), were strong enough for TI Education to stop behaving stupidly.
Attacking Linux usage is almost the worst offense a manufacturer can do to users. Sony did it for the PS3, and thereby motivated powerful adversaries who tore down the platform in a matter of months. Sony's inappropriate legal attacks against one of the tinkerers triggered a fantastically thorough and severe attack on Sony's business model, causing them at least one billion (!!) dollars of losses... TI Education's top-level executives are fully aware of those facts, I described them myself (it took me a couple days to make a thorough, well-detailed presentation).
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Streetwalrus on June 14, 2013, 05:16:08 am
That's absolutely awful. D: TI's taking the same route as Apple and I hate it.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Jonius7 on June 14, 2013, 05:28:36 am
Omg, this sounds really crazy. Before it was about ndless and TI trying to fix a few bugs, now it seems like they are fully intent on blocking out every possible source of downgrading, and even neglecting new/updated calculator content! It's like they have a full crazy team dedicated to "anti-hacking" on the TI-nspire. What do they achieve with this? Nothing beneficial much to the end user.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Adriweb on June 14, 2013, 05:53:58 am
I'm not sure to understand your reaction....

What else did you expect from TI ?

(Except the fact that this anti-downgrade protection "surprised" us by coming on a "rare" 3.2.4 and not on 3.6 as expected, granted.)


I guess the purpose of these news is to warn people that they should not update to this 3.2.4 OS if it gets available.


However, for those who already have it and tried to downgrade, and then got stuck without a OS, we've asked TI to give the OS (since it's the only installable version) so that they can at least get out of this issue.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 14, 2013, 06:05:04 am
I was not among them, but some people probably still hoped TI EdTech to lighten up and start behaving rationally, instead of keeping the wrong track of antagonizing users and treating them as enemies, leading said users to effectively behave as enemies aimed at damaging the business model (which they started doing after the release of OS 3.2.0.1212, a year ago) rather than at people just exercising their freedom to tinker.

Now, such hopes of TI gaining a clue are dashed up for good among everybody (or at least, they really need to be, people really need to wake up), and TI EdTech appears even more clearly as the greedy company that they are, more interested in safeguarding the profit they make selling underpowered devices at high price tags, than in users' best interests.
And before someone suggests fleeing to other calculator manufacturers: it's the same thing with the future Casio fx-CP400 (which is pitifully weak, worse than '2007 Nspires...) and HP Prime, both being locked-down calculators... and who seriously believes that the market leader (with excellent penetration into the education system) can be displaced easily, all the more it has other products of its own in development ?

The only choice is to fight back at TI... their umpteenth blunder temporarily makes us weaker against them, but it shall make us stronger in the longer term, since it will widen the pool of enemies.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: persalteas on June 14, 2013, 07:30:51 am
Quote
Except the fact that this anti-downgrade protection "surprised" us by coming on a "rare" 3.2.4 and not on 3.6 as expected, granted.

I think that what hapened with portuguese exams made emergency to block nlaunch. The OS 3.6 is not ready yet, so, it's a fast reaction step.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: critor on June 14, 2013, 07:39:26 am
Persy, could you please add the "width=550" parameter to your last image bbcode in the 1st post?
Thanks.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: persalteas on June 14, 2013, 08:03:19 am
Yes. Excuse me.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: critor on June 14, 2013, 08:15:06 am
No problem with me - it's great you've fixed this before a modo/admin told you ;)
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Levak on June 14, 2013, 08:45:37 am
Quote from: adriweb on June 14, 2013, 05:53:58 am
I'm not sure to understand your reaction....

What else did you expect from TI ?
To grow up and have seperate builds for Exams only and builds for Users only.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: catastropher on June 14, 2013, 09:11:58 am
This is terrible :( This will certainly cause problems for the TI-NSpire community, especially if new devices come preloaded with it. Is there any chance of getting around this?
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Hayleia on June 14, 2013, 09:30:24 am
Quote from: Streetwalker on June 14, 2013, 05:16:08 am
That's absolutely awful. D: TI's taking the same route as Apple and I hate it.
TI has some kind of a reason : they want their calcs to be accepted in exams (even though as others (like Levak) said, there are other solutions than blocking everything). But Apple doesn't even have any reason.

Anyways, the thing that shocked me is not that TI still didn't change their mind about that stupid idea of blocking everything, but the fact they made that update just before the French exams without providing a way to unbrick a calc one could have tried to downgrade.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Adriweb on June 14, 2013, 10:11:41 am
Quote from: Levak on June 14, 2013, 08:45:37 am
Quote from: adriweb on June 14, 2013, 05:53:58 am
I'm not sure to understand your reaction....

What else did you expect from TI ?
To grow up and have seperate builds for Exams only and builds for Users only.

Right. This is such a small change, it's not even the minor version that changes, but the revision (3.2.4).
:D

If they ever do that, it's going to be in another major.

But I doubt it, even if we proposed that solution officially some time ago....
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: ElementCoder on June 14, 2013, 10:35:42 am
This isn't what we're waiting for TI :( It almost seems like they only see the evil and not the good(games and other tools) in what we do.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Dapianokid on June 14, 2013, 11:11:24 am
Look here, those who think TI is evil...
This happens with every device where there is a dedicated hacking community. The only time there is a community like ours surrounding a device is when it is in need of hackage and therefore requires an exploit t abuse the device. It takes some experience and the interest of multiple people to do this, generally.
If TI didn't believe in doing this stuff, they wouldn't. It costs money and resources to secure a device. The only devices people really get interested in are those that requrie hacking to use in ways they aren't designed for. People only want what they can't have. Otherwise, we'd all use a Raspberry Pi computer.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Sorunome on June 14, 2013, 11:17:11 am
why ti, WHY
This sucks, but i hope we'll still somehow be able to re-write it, maybe they accedently opened a hole somewhere with all the additional protection......
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Streetwalrus on June 14, 2013, 11:28:07 am
Their policy about exam acceptance is just stupid. Isn't exam mode already there for this reason ? They could even make it so that it disables CAS temporarily. Then everyone could benefit of their own stuff and not be worried about cheating.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 14, 2013, 11:51:35 am
The PTT mode is nothing but a half-measure. Since 2010, it shouldn't be deemed sufficient anymore by any competent standardized testing regulation authority.
If it is really important that students do not use an OS with a CAS (instead of making exams less silly and less disconnected from real-world usage...), then the only proper solution, as far as the Nspire series is concerned, is to reformat the entire NAND Flash memory, and reflash the calculator with a special OS version tailored to the exam's restrictions, right from the exam room. This removes the need for a PTT mode altogether.

Of course, proper solutions cost money, and the current half-measures are cheaper, but hey... that's where the silliness of the whole standardized testing system restrictions (which, sadly, remains the norm in many important countries), combined to the insanity of TI EdTech's management (who keep pushing in the wrong direction, despite the prospect of huge financial losses), leads.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Sorunome on June 14, 2013, 11:54:03 am
my teachers at school don't even know that PTT exist (we have ti 84+'s)
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Adriweb on June 14, 2013, 11:56:38 am
BTW, 3.2.4 is quite "nothing" for an update.

The actual real next step is this september's 3.6 OS. (And still, from what I've seen some things change and some don't.... So don't expect too much in minor versions.)
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Streetwalrus on June 14, 2013, 12:55:25 pm
Quote from: Sorunome on June 14, 2013, 11:54:03 am
my teachers at school don't even know that PTT exist (we have ti 84+'s)
Same in France.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Juju on June 14, 2013, 01:05:45 pm
That's stupid. TI knew people would try to erase their OS, the function is there and is easily accessible, and they knew by setting the minimal OS version to one more recent than the latest on the website people would effectively brick their calc. I'm pretty sure they know that, there's a brick button easily accessible people would accidently click on, at a few days of the exams. But why?

I thought about hacking the version number on an earlier OS update, but I think it would reject it because of the signature and all.

And I'm pretty sure nobody knows what is PTT in Canada.
Title: Re: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 14, 2013, 01:43:36 pm
To be honest, I'm not surprised that they do that, since they did that for 3 years now. What I find sad, though, is that they seemed to have slacked down with such move and we have been able to downgrade to an Ndless-able OS for a long while already. Maybe it's the threat of people cheating in exams by trying to install a CAS OS on a non-CAS model?

Also if they still do that with the Nspire, then why is the newer 84+CSE fully open to hacking and the possibility of a third-party CAS? We would have thought that with the CSE having built-in ASM support that they had changed their views a bit about ASM on the Nspire too.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Xeda112358 on June 14, 2013, 01:47:00 pm
Well, to be honest, the 83+/84+ series has had the possibility of a third-party CAS for a long time and it hasn't been done yet, so they probably aren't too worried.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Darl181 on June 14, 2013, 01:54:43 pm
Maybe because basically every attempt to make a CAS for the z80 fell through. :P
Also the nspire seems to be their flagship, so they're going to "protect" it or something ti-worthy like that? (http://darl181.webuda.com/other/ti.gif)

Imo this isn't exactly surprising, but disappointing nonetheless.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Juju on June 14, 2013, 03:01:47 pm
Actually, probably they intend the Nspire series for those who needs security and anti-cheating features and also advanced features like a CAS while the TI-83+ series is for those who don't care about that and only needs something simple.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: AlexisVieira on June 14, 2013, 05:53:50 pm
Quote from: persalteas on June 14, 2013, 07:30:51 am
Quote
Except the fact that this anti-downgrade protection "surprised" us by coming on a "rare" 3.2.4 and not on 3.6 as expected, granted.

I think that what hapened with portuguese exams made emergency to block nlaunch. The OS 3.6 is not ready yet, so, it's a fast reaction step.
i think that they'll force us to install that oS to the exam -.- i am praying for that doesn't happen because i'll do that exam at 25/06...
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: AlexisVieira on June 14, 2013, 06:02:57 pm
Quote from: Sorunome on June 14, 2013, 11:54:03 am
my teachers at school don't even know that PTT exist (we have ti 84+'s)
on my school(Portugal) is the same... but the most part of us uses ti-nspires...
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 14, 2013, 07:48:21 pm
I guess that for United States students who don't need a CAS, I would recommend you to get the TI-84+CSE or Casio PRIZM instead of the TI-Nspire CX if you absolutely want a color calc. Both are slower, but cheaper, and they do the job well in math.

Otherwise, just wait for the HP Prime or perhaps the ClassPad 400.

The Nspire CX already got discontinued in parts of Canada, such as where I live, as Staples has stopped selling them completely. It shows that the demand for such calc was just not here. Perhaps students heard about how locked down it is from older school friends, too?

EDIT: Try to do this in Nspire BASIC (minus the 160x240 resolution thing):

(http://illusiat.reubenquest.net/xlib.mtv-music-generator.com_imagesThatWereOn57o9WhereJujuShouldPointTheXlibMTVMGSubdomainToBeforeWeLoseTheGame/zeldalastyle.gif)

Granted, the Nspire has Lua, which is even faster than that, but many calc programmers like how easy BASIC is and built-in support  for on-calc programming, plus with Z80 BASIC you don't have to worry about your programs not running in previous or newer OS versions as much as with Nspire lua.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: joao9856 on June 14, 2013, 07:50:20 pm
I portuguese!! I'm not worried at all, here at my school no teacher knows how to work with a Nspire, silly i know but whenever a teacher of mine asks me for a calculator, i bring mine already in a calculate sheet and he just looks at the calculator and says "I don't get any of this, someone bring a normal calculator!", its just like Ti Nspire doesn't have big black number on the center witha white background, it really must be a hard job to find such keys!
So i'm fine though i wont bring the CAS to the exam.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: TIfanx1999 on June 14, 2013, 08:46:07 pm
I'm not surprised about the new update changing the minimum OS requirements and blocking ndless and the like. However, if this calculator is available for sale now, it's irresponsible for TI to not have the new OS available on their site. The reason being, if an OS gets accidentally deleted or if someone tries to downgrade not knowing about the protection, they have a broken calculator. :/ That's my biggest issue with this.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 15, 2013, 01:45:21 am
It is, indeed, flat out irresponsible.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 15, 2013, 01:54:10 am
And there's still the whole freedom issue to do what we want with the hardware we paid for. I mean, maybe they can try to prevent blocking CAS on non CAS calcs, but not if it means preventing us from installing whatever non-CAS OS we want or downgrade.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 15, 2013, 02:10:15 am
Excatly. This attempt to prevent the usage of Linux on a platform which can run it (and whose Linux support is in the process of mainlining) will almost certainly attract a new class of attackers on the platform at some point: skilled people, who have no special interest in the expensive, underpowered platform in itself, but are infuriated any kind of blatant disrespect for users' basic rights, which makes them willing to spend free time and money on punishing the manufacturer. That's exactly the type of persons who blew the PS3 castle to smithereens. Perhaps the "nLaunch team" / "nLaunch CX guy" already belong to that group, we don't know...
If TI EdTech reacts inappropriately to the inevitable future attacks, like Sony did, then they take the chance of infuriating yet another class of attackers, even more harmful to the interests they're so hell-bent on trying to safeguard. The kind of attackers who can deeply penetrate network infrastructure and computer systems. In such an event, I think that the top-level managers to whom I patiently explained all of the above and more (and their successors, since high-level management people at TI often swap jobs) will be fired for incompetence.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: pimathbrainiac on June 15, 2013, 02:51:34 am
My take on all this: TI is doing not only what is good for them, but what is good for the community as a whole.

First of all: There will be a workaround, for sure. It WILL happen, as it always does ;)

Second: TI needs to be on tests. This makes them bigger and have a larger consumer base, which means more $$ for them but also means more people could potentially be in the community, which is good for the community as a whole, if you follow. I'm willing to bet you that TI might have let a back door open for us (intentionally or not) because the testing people would overlook the "bug", but we will not. Also: the community will benefit from this because of joint efforts to get ndless and other OSs on the calc.

Third: We could just crack the signing keys on the boot1 and/or boot2 and/or OS itself. TI might not even come after the community this time!

(This is the optimist in me talking)
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 15, 2013, 03:17:31 am
Quote
but what is good for the community as a whole.
Oh, god... what kind of heinous crime does TI have to do for everybody to really wake up and start facing the truth, if even the current episode still isn't enough ?
TI is milking customers with underpowered products sold at very high price tags for such limited power and storage space; they're treating customers as foes; they're pissing on their basic rights.

Quote
Second: TI needs to be on tests.
TI is on tests even with open calculators, witness the whole TI-Z80 series or the Prizm. Lockdown is in no way a requirement. Their trouble with the Nspire line is because it is not open. The solution is openness.

Quote
Third: We could just crack the signing keys on the boot1 and/or boot2 and/or OS itself. TI might not even come after the community this time!
No, we could not. The topic has already been discussed (too) many times on the forum, look out for the topics... We cannot just do what we did with the TI-Z80 and TI-68k series.

Quote
(This is the optimist in me talking)
The completely unrealistic optimist who doesn't know what he's talking about, yeah. Sorry.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: pimathbrainiac on June 15, 2013, 03:19:40 am
Thanks for taking away my optimism.

I don't think raging at TI is the right thing to do right now. You don't want them hating us any more.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 15, 2013, 03:25:16 am
Quote
I don't think raging at TI is the right thing to do right now.
Raging creates resent. Resent is one of the three most powerful human feelings, one of those who get people out of their way. Another feeling of the triplet can help further: pride, for those who will make it, of slapping the silly manufacturer in the face, another time.
Getting people (and a larger number of people) out of their way, to fight back, is exactly what we need.

Quote
You don't want them hating us any more.
They do want people to hate them even more.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: pimathbrainiac on June 15, 2013, 03:31:40 am
Quote from: Lionel Debroux on June 15, 2013, 03:25:16 am
Quote
You don't want them hating us any more.
They do want people to hate them even more.

No company wants their target audience to hate them, but sadly, their target audience is not us, it's the teachers and the tests.

But they also don't want hate from the community. They just want their target audience to like them more, so they prioritized.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 15, 2013, 04:00:50 am
I'm well aware of their priorities, but they're no valid excuse for blatant disrespect towards users ;)
As a result of their actions against users, and the predictable retaliations (which, for maximum impact, should occur around the best time of the year for inconveniencing TI EdTech and exam testing), even their target audience is likely to hate them.

Spoiler For Spoiler:
In April 2011, I made and published the legal, unreliable, and harmless OSLauncher tool, after seeing an April Fools prank showing the CAS OS running on the model sold as non-CAS and telling myself "it's certainly not hard, the legendary unpublished RunOS tool was a very small program". OSLauncher was released with the DummyOS proof of concept, and the ability to launch the CAS OS on the model sold as non-CAS was advertised weeks later, in May 2011.
Being relatively close to the exam season, the news of that capability of OSLauncher completely freaked out the standardized testing regulation authorities in TI's main target country, and therefore top-level management at TI, even if not only getting rid of OSLauncher's effect was trivial (a mere reboot did the trick), but also, the combination of the then-current second generation of Ndless not being persistent across reboots (unlike third-generation Ndless) + the effect of the PTT (and thereby forbidding user access to the documents used for installing Ndless + running OSLauncher) made it harmless.
That's how we learnt that the best time of the year for publishing attacks on TI's business plans is May.
Title: Re: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 15, 2013, 10:36:37 am
I wish that anon or another big online group went after TI like they did with Sony for these reasons, that would teach them. I wonder if such group would care enough about a tiny community like us to do it, though.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Nosferatu Arucard 1983 on June 15, 2013, 05:19:03 pm
So far my concern of the TI policy to lock down the NSpire for third-party applications is only to try make alive the need of a expensive calculator in university.
However in my University (IST), the use of a CAS calculator is pointless  ;D
Even recentelly if exams that requires numerical calcultations, you can bring a smartphone to load a calculator application and use it.  O.O
It's because the professors that teaches the course can check and make caution to avoid cheating between the students, and they think now the calculators of any kind, due to cheap Android phones, are becoming an obsolete technology.
When I make the last exam of introductory Nuclear Physics for my Ph.D. graduate, I use Maxima on Android to solve the calculations with my Samsung Galaxy Mini without problems. O.O The only restrition is to use when is only needed, and then return to the desk openly to professor line-of-view to avoid cheating. (Even in convential calculators you can cheat  :-\)

This means one big thing: why wasting almost €200 for a NSpire CX with a poor CAS, since you can use a smartphone that cost less than €100 which you can install a much better CAS (Maxima), and you can use during classes other powerfull applications ?!  ::)
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on June 16, 2013, 02:20:19 am
Quote
This means one big thing: why wasting almost €200 for a NSpire CX with a poor CAS, since you can use a smartphone that cost less than €100 which you can install a much better CAS (Maxima), and you can use during classes other powerfull applications ?!
Completely agreed. Calculators are severely obsolete, especially at such high price tags.
TI saw it coming and already has solutions for the new education market with the iPad (and likely Android) apps; other manufacturers would be well advised to follow suit, unless they can bribe exam testing officials for long enough in some countries and still pull out a profit on the obsolete hardware and software...
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Streetwalrus on June 16, 2013, 10:15:44 am
Well, in France you can't use a phone in high school, so you're forced to buy a crappy TI-82 Stats for €50 (at least).
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 16, 2013, 11:23:06 am
To be honest, I wonder if TI just didn't decide to always set the lowest downgrade version to one versions lower, from now on, or if it isn't just automatic when they compile a new OS?

As for the calc prices, over a TI-Nspire CX was $194.99 before it got heavily discounted before its discontinuing ($149.99 was the lowest I saw). I doubt that this made parents very happy. Just besides that calc, there was a nice Casio PRIZM for $129.99 (still overpriced, tho), while both the 84+ and 84+SE are around $140-150. I bet that over here, if another company released a calc as great as the 84+ with every feature and teachers were willing to learn how to use it, they would start recommending that calc to students instead, because over here, people always want to pay as less as possible.

However, I think the fact there are so many games on the 83+ probably played a role, too.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Streetwalrus on June 16, 2013, 11:46:24 am
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on June 16, 2013, 11:23:06 am
because over here, people always want to pay as less as possible.
Everypony wants to pay as few as possible. :P
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 16, 2013, 12:03:28 pm
Not necessarily. What i mean is that some people will prefer to pay a bit more to have more features. For example, some kids will ZOMGZOMGHOLYF#@$WANT!!!1!1one the second they see the color screen calc and the parent will buy that instead of the cheaper alternative.

(By the way, I am talking as if the CSE didn't exist yet, because the CSE isn't even available for purchase offline yet anyway. With the CSE it might be a different story because the calc is only like $10 higher than the 84+SE and about $20-30 lower than the Nspire CX non-CAS)
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Streetwalrus on June 16, 2013, 12:06:32 pm
Quote from: DJ Omnimaga on June 16, 2013, 12:03:28 pm
Not necessarily. What i mean is that some people will prefer to pay a bit more to have more features. For example, some kids will ZOMGZOMGHOLYF#@$WANT!!!1!1one the second they see the color screen calc and the parent will buy that instead of the cheaper alternative.
Yeah of course we always look for the best compromise.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: crazyracer98 on June 17, 2013, 03:27:42 pm
What the hell is TI going to do? Because I think TI know that the omnimaga-community find a way to go around the protections
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: Sorunome on June 17, 2013, 04:10:38 pm
Quote from: crazyracer98 on June 17, 2013, 03:27:42 pm
What the hell is TI going to do? Because I think TI know that the omnimaga-community find a way to go around the protections
Well, I don't think so.
I think that they are ignorant about it that their project is now perfect and that we can't get past their new security mesurments even though we will be able to do so.
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: AlexisVieira on June 17, 2013, 04:16:00 pm
Quote from: crazyracer98 on June 17, 2013, 03:27:42 pm
What the hell is TI going to do? Because I think TI know that the omnimaga-community find a way to go around the protections
well, as I can see, if our genious coders can do that, it will take a lot of time and maybe a useless work because the 3.6 will be release on the summer...
Title: Re: OS 3.2.4.1237 attacks nLaunch, Linux and Ndless!!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on June 18, 2013, 01:14:43 am
True. Often fixes for such thing comes half a year later. TI is just trying to make it to discourage people from making hacks for this calc and to ensure that people have them installed less often or such things.