Omnimaga
Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: Eeems on March 11, 2012, 11:16:00 pm
-
Alrighty, so big update time.
First off, clean up time. We have noticed that a few ARS have been inactive for a long time and while the 10 post rule doesn't count for their position we no longer believe that they are able to fulfill their duties and so we have demoted them from their ARS position.
Meishe91, z80man, calcdude84se and TsukasaZX we will miss you guys on the team and maybe if you are more active in the future we can give you back your position.
Secondly the administration team ( Deep, Netham and me ( Eeems ) ) have decided that while the voting system is nice, downvoting has caused too much controversy in the past due to people not understanding how it is suppose to be used. Because of this we have decided to remove the downvote option. Now you can only upvote posts.
Our third and last update is that we have hired two new administrators to bolster our dwindling numbers so without further ado, please welcome shmibs and qwerty to the manager team!
-
Congrats to everyone who got a promotion! :)
(And for those demoted, I hope you guys come back!)
It should be reminded that if you want to take away an upvote, just click on the thumb again and it will toggle the uprate off. :)
Just curious, will this change increase our ratings in any way?
-
Congrats to everyone who got a promotion! :)
(And for those demoted, I hope you guys come back!)
It should be reminded that if you want to take away an upvote, just click on the thumb again and it will toggle the uprate off. :)
Just curious, will this change increase our ratings in any way?
No. Previous downvotes are not being removed, there will just be no future ones.
-
It should be reminded that if you want to take away an upvote, just click on the thumb again and it will toggle the uprate off. :)
Just curious, will this change increase our ratings in any way?
Thanks for noting that for us and no it will not change anything else other than the fact that there is no longer a downvote
-
Hm, I guess that might be why Facebook don't hace a dislike button.
Also congrats shmibs and Qwerty, hope you can fulfill the hole I, Hot_dog and ztrumpet left.
-
yeah i noticed lately that as soon as a newcomer sounds like a bot or asks oslauncher help or his post has typos such as accidental caps lock, he gets -2 or so. I also noticed more waves of downvotes lately.
However, IMO if downvote is removed, you should replace the thumbs up icon with a "like" thumbs up modified image and make the report option more visible, since some less mature members will most likely restrain themselves less from trolling with downvoting removal (although those are usually the ones complainingabout downvotes . )
also it sucks that those staff do not post anymore. Hopefully they come back as member later.)
Also I really hate focus-stealing while typing on ipod touch
x.x
-
Question: are the demoted ars members being replaced?
-
Grats on promotion Qwerty and Shmibs
I'd say they deserve it :D!
-
Awesome, congrats, guys!
-
btw what happened to Michael lee? O.O He's still listed as CoT with z80man, even though they didnt post in 2 months...
-
I wonder, can somebody remove their downvote on a post?
-
Nope, too late D:
-
You can press the upvote button, which would remove the downvote, then remove the upvote.
-
Congraulations to shmibs and qwerty on their promotion! :D
It's a nice change of pace from the past few weeks.
Also, I agree with the removal of the down-vote button. It would be nice to have a simple way of letting someone know they've made a mistake or have said something distaseful without making a big deal out of it or getting off topic, though.
-
For that we usually let the person know publicly, but if it continues it's best that a PM is sent. Members can publicly warn, too, but only as long as they do not make up rules based on relious motives or something.
-
Question: are the demoted ars members being replaced?
No, we already have a bunch of ars still and managers, so we don't need to appoint more. We only had so many cause of ndoom anyways.
-
^this (we even had 20 at one point if I remember).
What about the inactive Cot members such as Michael_lee and z80man, though? Are they getting demoted and replaced?
-
Secondly the administration team ( Deep, Netham and me ( Eeems ) ) have decided that while the voting system is nice, downvoting has caused too much controversy in the past due to people not understanding how it is suppose to be used. Because of this we have decided to remove the downvote option. Now you can only upvote posts.
I personally think this is the wrong way to go. Members cannot be "slapped on the wrist" anymore for saying something they probably shouldn't have, and in the mind of the poster, there is less reprisal for saying potentially insulting or disrespectful posts. It's not going to ease hard feeling, but more increase them as now, a major part of the control factor on those kinds of posts is now gone. Also, all a regular member can do now is report a post or respond to it. With the downvote, a member could just rate down, feel better and then walk away. Now, they'd have to report the post or respond to (and feed) the troll which would potentially leave dissatisfaction, and thus, more drama. Ultimately, the downvote system was an important control on disrespectful and trolling posts and now that it's removed, the only true formal punishment that can be given is either a ban or suspension. And only a moderator or admin can do that, and the regular member can only point out the posts, but can't do anything directly to them. It's only going to increase drama and unresolved issues. That, I already foresee.
I also want to bring up the fact that, while you guys are the managers of the website, this came entirely out of the blue and was made without any sort of discussion on it by the community as a whole. (Or at least none that I have seen) I think that for major site changes like this one, the community should be notified and allowed to offer their own opinions and suggestions, because what if it's something the managers think is a good idea, but the community by and large is against? Also, you are also cutting out a lot of other valid outside opinions on the matter. Basically, I think there should have been a news poll thread suggesting the idea before it was agreed upon and implemented.
-
Secondly the administration team ( Deep, Netham and me ( Eeems ) ) have decided that while the voting system is nice, downvoting has caused too much controversy in the past due to people not understanding how it is suppose to be used. Because of this we have decided to remove the downvote option. Now you can only upvote posts.
I personally think this is the wrong way to go. Members cannot be "slapped on the wrist" anymore for saying something they probably shouldn't have, and in the mind of the poster, there is less reprisal for saying potentially insulting or disrespectful posts. It's not going to ease hard feeling, but more increase them as now, a major part of the control factor on those kinds of posts is now gone. Also, all a regular member can do now is report a post or respond to it. With the downvote, a member could just rate down, feel better and then walk away. Now, they'd have to report the post or respond to (and feed) the troll which would potentially leave dissatisfaction, and thus, more drama. Ultimately, the downvote system was an important control on disrespectful and trolling posts and now that it's removed, the only true formal punishment that can be given is either a ban or suspension. And only a moderator or admin can do that, and the regular member can only point out the posts, but can't do anything directly to them. It's only going to increase drama and unresolved issues. That, I already foresee.
I also want to bring up the fact that, while you guys are the managers of the website, this came entirely out of the blue and was made without any sort of discussion on it by the community as a whole. (Or at least none that I have seen) I think that for major site changes like this one, the community should be notified and allowed to offer their own opinions and suggestions, because what if it's something the managers think is a good idea, but the community by and large is against? Also, you are also cutting out a lot of other valid outside opinions on the matter. Basically, I think there should have been a news poll thread suggesting the idea before it was agreed upon and implemented.
actually removing the down vote has been on the todo list for a long while. it just was never done for a multitude of reason.
secondly this is not out of the blue. if you had not noticed people have gotten demoted in the past few days as well as some other site drama. were just doing what we deem the best course of action for the site as a whole. if you really want to dispute it take it up on the site feed back subforum we will gladly listen thats why we have that subforum. we don't want to anger anyone we are just trying to make the site better as a whole for old and new members alike.
as for z80man and michael lee i believe we are giving them one more month to come back before removing them from there positions
-
Yeah, I think removing the downvotes were discussed in a thread a while ago.
-
Yeah, I think removing the downvotes were discussed in a thread a while ago.
its been on the back burner for a good half a year iirc
-
I personally think this is the wrong way to go. Members cannot be "slapped on the wrist" anymore for saying something they probably shouldn't have, and in the mind of the poster, there is less reprisal for saying potentially insulting or disrespectful posts. It's not going to ease hard feeling, but more increase them as now, a major part of the control factor on those kinds of posts is now gone. Also, all a regular member can do now is report a post or respond to it. With the downvote, a member could just rate down, feel better and then walk away. Now, they'd have to report the post or respond to (and feed) the troll which would potentially leave dissatisfaction, and thus, more drama. Ultimately, the downvote system was an important control on disrespectful and trolling posts and now that it's removed, the only true formal punishment that can be given is either a ban or suspension. And only a moderator or admin can do that, and the regular member can only point out the posts, but can't do anything directly to them. It's only going to increase drama and unresolved issues. That, I already foresee.
I also want to bring up the fact that, while you guys are the managers of the website, this came entirely out of the blue and was made without any sort of discussion on it by the community as a whole. (Or at least none that I have seen) I think that for major site changes like this one, the community should be notified and allowed to offer their own opinions and suggestions, because what if it's something the managers think is a good idea, but the community by and large is against? Also, you are also cutting out a lot of other valid outside opinions on the matter. Basically, I think there should have been a news poll thread suggesting the idea before it was agreed upon and implemented.
There's been extensive discussion on the matter, a large part of which has been public on the forums in various threads (mainly the ones where members 'rage', so to speak, about being downvoted). While there hasn't been much drama due to it recently, historically it's been rather problematic.
As far as the community at large being against it, as far as I can recall, you're the only person to really speak out against it, with most others being neutral or for it.
-
I think for now we should just see how it goes, then if trolling increases as a result of the removal of negative rating, as HOMER and myself worry about, then maybe downvoting could be implemented again, and rules enforced harder when someone whines about his negative rating?
That said, respect might not have this much of an impact, anyway, because for example it took until -31 ratings before annoyingcalc starts going up again (although there is still room for improvements there was a lot shortly after he joined)
-
Well done to qwerty and shmibs! You guys will do a great job.
So we can unvote upvotes but is it still possible to unvote existing downvotes?
-
So we can unuote upvotes but is it still possible to unvote existing downvotes?
You can press the upvote button, which would remove the downvote, then remove the upvote.
-
Ah ok then. Then it seems that i mostly agree with the up/down move though the option of scaring people/trolls to pay attention to their posts is greatly reduced. Other than that, it's fine and simplifies things
-
So we can unuote upvotes but is it still possible to unvote existing downvotes?
You can press the upvote button, which would remove the downvote, then remove the upvote.
oh right, I forgot about that trick.
-
Well, in some way, although I am not on Facebook, I noticed it didn't have an dislike.
Although this can be pretty annoying, you are basically sure it would get abused, especially on a big social network.
(Imagine Justin Bieber says something 'normal'. You can be almost sure it will have many dislikes, just because many people hate or dislike him.)
And if abuse starts happening on this forum, I can understand why this has been done. I think rating system's purpose is to show to new people, for example, who is a good/intellegent/serious/etc.. person. If someone has low ratings(and has been here already a while) they can guess that that person doesn't come a lot on the forum or doesn't have so many important/good/special posts.(or even is a troll). Then the newbie can know who to ask a question to, and almost know he can get rightaway a good answer to.
And I guess if I think a post needs a downrating, I'll just not uprate it, and probably give a post describing what I think is wrong with it. In that way, the person who got downrated, will understand what he did wrong a LOT better I think, if he instead would just have got a downrating(with possibly not even a post describing what he did wrong).
So yeah, I guess I don't mind it. :)
-
It actually happened that trolls got downvoted even in normal posts :P
But yeah.
Edit the lowest respect I got on a post was -20. I was necroposting a bit then. O.o (at the end I ended up with -35 respect XD)
-
Congrats to both Shmibs and Qwerty on their new positions. =)
Secondly the administration team ( Deep, Netham and me ( Eeems ) ) have decided that while the voting system is nice, downvoting has caused too much controversy in the past due to people not understanding how it is suppose to be used. Because of this we have decided to remove the downvote option. Now you can only upvote posts.
I personally think this is the wrong way to go. Members cannot be "slapped on the wrist" anymore for saying something they probably shouldn't have, and in the mind of the poster, there is less reprisal for saying potentially insulting or disrespectful posts. It's not going to ease hard feeling, but more increase them as now, a major part of the control factor on those kinds of posts is now gone. Also, all a regular member can do now is report a post or respond to it. With the downvote, a member could just rate down, feel better and then walk away. Now, they'd have to report the post or respond to (and feed) the troll which would potentially leave dissatisfaction, and thus, more drama. Ultimately, the downvote system was an important control on disrespectful and trolling posts and now that it's removed, the only true formal punishment that can be given is either a ban or suspension. And only a moderator or admin can do that, and the regular member can only point out the posts, but can't do anything directly to them. It's only going to increase drama and unresolved issues. That, I already foresee.
I also want to bring up the fact that, while you guys are the managers of the website, this came entirely out of the blue and was made without any sort of discussion on it by the community as a whole. (Or at least none that I have seen) I think that for major site changes like this one, the community should be notified and allowed to offer their own opinions and suggestions, because what if it's something the managers think is a good idea, but the community by and large is against? Also, you are also cutting out a lot of other valid outside opinions on the matter. Basically, I think there should have been a news poll thread suggesting the idea before it was agreed upon and implemented.
Well, our mod team and staff are pretty active, so we tend to stay on top of things. If I personally notice a member out of line I will usually politely mention to them what is wrong with their post. Sometimes myself(or other staff) will PM them. Even if you don't see these things, you can rest assured that they are being taken care of. As you pointed out their is also and "Report" button if a post or person is really out of line. When this is the case, I usually see at least 5 people report it (and thanks, we appreciate it :)). It gets forwarded to staff and we are able to handle it in a timely manner. The downvote isn't really necessary, as there are quite a few checks in place already.
-
It actually happened that trolls got downvoted even in normal posts :P
But yeah.
Edit the lowest respect I got on a post was -20. I was necroposting a bit then. O.o (at the end I ended up with -35 respect XD)
In total I have 13 downratings, and 3 upratings that got somehow lost in oblivion. :P
Yeah, I noticed what you said about the troll things. At least that can't happen anymore.
I was also wondering what if you notice a post and it has for no reason an uprating, for example a post that says "Yes, I do" or something? You can't downrate it back to 0.
-
You can report it to us or PM staff and they can look into it for rating abuse. We can see if someone is going around uprating posts for no reason.
-
what I would suggest(although it would be somewhat complicated) would be to prompt a reason for uprating or downrating...
this would still keep downrating as an option, but would also give insight as to why the post was downrated(maybe make these anonymous?)
and congrats, shmibs and qwerty :D
-
^That is exactly where I was thinking about :D
-
Hmm, the issue is that downrating will not necessarily deter a troll. A troll will see it and think it is funny and go for more. I remember back when this was being discussed a while ago (I think well over 6 months ago, actually), that DJ_O had a great idea:
Show two stats: All your upvotes and all your downvotes.
I don't pay much attention to my respect level, so under the old system, I wouldn't notice a few downvotes, so I would not notice that I had a bad post. However, if I saw a sudden spike in negative posts, I would be worried.
Plus, I know this might deter some folks from rating somebody down, especially a well respected member, for no reason. If a post had +15 uprates and a trollish person decided it wasn't really worth it and should be knocked down some, they might go to downrate it. This would be a noticeable action. I have had -5 downvotes in my history here, so I would notice if one day it went down when the only post I made got 14 uprates.
-
Hmm, the issue is that downrating will not necessarily deter a troll. A troll will see it and think it is funny and go for more. I remember back when this was being discussed a while ago (I think well over 6 months ago, actually), that DJ_O had a great idea:
Show two stats: All your upvotes and all your downvotes.
I don't pay much attention to my respect level, so under the old system, I wouldn't notice a few downvotes, so I would not notice that I had a bad post. However, if I saw a sudden spike in negative posts, I would be worried.
Plus, I know this might deter some folks from rating somebody down, especially a well respected member, for no reason. If a post had +15 uprates and a trollish person decided it wasn't really worth it and should be knocked down some, they might go to downrate it. This would be a noticeable action. I have had -5 downvotes in my history here, so I would notice if one day it went down when the only post I made got 14 uprates.
yeah, but if a reason for downvoting is required, it would be possible to find 'bad' reasons and report them to the mods...
edit: and you can check all uprates and downrates in the recent respect page ;)
-
I don't particularly like the removal of the downrate button, but for different reasons than have been stated. If for example, there is a slightly controversial post, to which some people find encouraging and others find offensive, only the upvotes would be there, and the offended people can not do much about it.
But I guess it is a rather rare case, otherwise, I'm fine with it.
Also, I congratulate Qwerty and Shimbs, and hope those who were demoted come back. ;)
-
I guess you could post a reply saying you were offended are even report the post.
-
In response to yunhua comment, one worry I got is some people doing less effort into wording their posts properly and then sounding offensive. eg: SOMEONE ACCIDENTALLY HELPING A PROGRAMMER LIKE THIS AND SOUNDING ANGRY AT THE PERSON WHILE ALL THAT HAPPENED IS AN ACCIDENTAL CAPS LOCK KEYPRESS.
-
I think the new uprating-only system is perfect :) I think the point of the system is to give respect and acknowledgement to people who contribute to the community and make nice posts, and that reporting posts is a superior way to deal with bad posts than downvoting them.
-
I'm kind of neutral about the removal of the button, it can be the source of problems but also can be a sort of signal to the person posting. Maybe have it some sort of level privilege, after x posts or something?
At any rate, at least no more accidental downvotes XD
-
I've been downvoted on a news topic before...no idea why lol
I'm hoping that removing the button will help, but if it doesn't we will explore other options for sure.
-
I think the new uprating-only system is perfect :) I think the point of the system is to give respect and acknowledgement to people who contribute to the community and make nice posts, and that reporting posts is a superior way to deal with bad posts than downvoting them.
Yeah and despite not being able to punish bad posters anymore, we couldn't even see how many negative posts someone had and people can improve anyway. Not to mention even if we could see negative points, there are people who downvote high rated messages when they feel their rating is way too high, which could give a false view of someone's behaviour history.
I also hated how close the rating buttons were from each others too, because I always rated down posts by mistake XD .
But now me and quibigo have no more chance to return to 666 respect O.O
-
I personally think this is the wrong way to go. Members cannot be "slapped on the wrist" anymore for saying something they probably shouldn't have, and in the mind of the poster, there is less reprisal for saying potentially insulting or disrespectful posts. It's not going to ease hard feeling, but more increase them as now, a major part of the control factor on those kinds of posts is now gone. Also, all a regular member can do now is report a post or respond to it. With the downvote, a member could just rate down, feel better and then walk away. Now, they'd have to report the post or respond to (and feed) the troll which would potentially leave dissatisfaction, and thus, more drama. Ultimately, the downvote system was an important control on disrespectful and trolling posts and now that it's removed, the only true formal punishment that can be given is either a ban or suspension. And only a moderator or admin can do that, and the regular member can only point out the posts, but can't do anything directly to them. It's only going to increase drama and unresolved issues. That, I already foresee.
I also want to bring up the fact that, while you guys are the managers of the website, this came entirely out of the blue and was made without any sort of discussion on it by the community as a whole. (Or at least none that I have seen) I think that for major site changes like this one, the community should be notified and allowed to offer their own opinions and suggestions, because what if it's something the managers think is a good idea, but the community by and large is against? Also, you are also cutting out a lot of other valid outside opinions on the matter. Basically, I think there should have been a news poll thread suggesting the idea before it was agreed upon and implemented.
There's been extensive discussion on the matter, a large part of which has been public on the forums in various threads (mainly the ones where members 'rage', so to speak, about being downvoted). While there hasn't been much drama due to it recently, historically it's been rather problematic.
As far as the community at large being against it, as far as I can recall, you're the only person to really speak out against it, with most others being neutral or for it.
I remember there being a thread discussing the matter a couple of months ago. However, that was still a couple of months ago and I don't think we reached any sort of conclusion. And I wasn't referring to this matter being controversial, but potential future changes. I would like to see an official discussion take place before major changes are implemented, is all. I'm just bringing that up, because I personally don't like how the matter was discussed in places other members might not see, such as myself. It would also allow for other opinions to come up and possible alternatives before a decision is reached.
Personally, I like the idea of having a negative and positive value or perhaps other limits such as a reason behind downvoting. (What if a member could see the reason behind why a post was downrated and that could potentially reduce problems with misunderstanding) Don't know how feasible that would be though...
-
But now me and quibigo have no more chance to return to 666 respect O.O
/me abuses his newfound powers to return DJ to 666 posts :P
-
Well HOMER the thing now is if staff wants Omni to be friendly, but felt that the presence of negative voting caused things to be worse in overall, then since it involves trying to make the site having less drama, it's them who have the last say in the matter. Same for bans and such. In thar case, if a member is so much against the change and is not fine with how the admins who are losing money into running the site are managing things here, then they have to find a different website or start their own. And I think leaving Omni just because negative ratings are no longer possible without giving a chance to see if it's really gonna cause problems would be as absurd (IMO) as leaving because a member likes TI-BASIC.
Besides, we had no rating from 2004 to late 2009. While there was a bit more trolling, it was just dealt with more warnings and bans. (kinda like a permanent nDoom policy, although during the nDoom policy, criticising how the site is ran was ban-worthy)
-
Congrats on the new managers! :D
I also like the change in the post rating system. :)
-
Congrats to the new managers! I hope this will help the site to run smoothly in the future! :)
-
Who are the 2 new managers now?
Was it decided?
-
See 1st post
-
Time to gain back those upvotes... :P
QWERTY congrats!
-
Oops didn't see that :P
Gratz Qwerty and shmibs
-
Nice job to new managers! :D
Down-rating removed... meh
-
But what if there are things that need to be downrated? :P
Maybe you guys should change it so that a admin has to accept the reason and stuff...
-
QWERTY congrats!
What about shmibs?? O.O
-
If there is something that needs to be downrated, you can always report it. This way punishment and reprimand can be carried out by staff members in a private environment instead of a public one.
-
But what if there are things that need to be downrated? :P
Maybe you guys should change it so that a admin has to accept the reason and stuff...
That would create a lot of unnecessary work just to keep a system in place that isn't really needed.
-
True and for that we already got the report link anyway
-
What if someone clicks the report link it also downrates?
-
If they are already reporting the post, what would the point of also downrating it be?
-
That's confusing then, it would make things more complex and undoing it isn't as easy as clicking the down button anymore. In fact, having that function is a bit redundant on removing the downvote in the first place.
-
What if someone clicks the report link it also downrates?
That could cause people mass reporting posts that may just be a little rude and not really need to be reported. It would basically have a similar effect to having the downrate button, only staff would get spammed with reported posts as well. x.x
-
Actually I didn't think of that with the mass reporting, good point AoC.
After mass reporting there would be no easy way to undo the downvotes, unless of course it was one downvote per person. But as I said, makes the removal of the downvote completely redundant.
-
So downvotes removed as it is for now, which I think makes things much simpler overall and no mass downvoting craze weird feeling option there for temptation.
-
Wait, downvotes were removed? Why? Why is there still upvotes, of there is nothing to contrast them? This doesn't make much sense too me O.o
-
It kinda does make sense if you read the first post carefully.
And this is so that the Post Ratings can continue, but that the abuse of downvotes is removed.
I know it does seem unbalanced now as you can't downvote, but that's how it is, I guess.
-
huHmmm, well I really hope omnimaga doesn't become too much like Facebook :P what of downrates became available once you had a certain amount of posts or even uprates! That would balance out more
-
That probably would work ok in most cases, we'd have to see what the managers say about that.
And I guess that's why Facebook doesn't have a dislike button, so it doesn't get abused, and people get cyberbullied using that button.