Author Topic: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE  (Read 2842 times)

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Offline Eeems

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As seen over on Cemetech, TI has removed native code support from the CE line of calculators. This means that programs written in assembler, or compiled with languages like C will no longer work on the latest OS. If you want to continue using natively compiled programs, you will want to avoid updating for the time being. We will continue to post major updates and information as this evolves.

What is your opinion on this change by TI?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2020, 11:35:59 am by Eeems »
/e

Offline Jonson26

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Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2020, 06:21:13 am »
In my opinion, that's really sad, because it kind of nullifies the effort so many people have put into making all those cool programs for the CE range. For example, a project like TI-BOY CE will now be much less useful.
Apparently they want to replace ASM with python (potential vurnerability?), which unfortunately isn't a viable replacement for ASM, because it's an interpreted language.  :(

Offline Eeems

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Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2020, 02:58:48 pm »
In my opinion, that's really sad, because it kind of nullifies the effort so many people have put into making all those cool programs for the CE range. For example, a project like TI-BOY CE will now be much less useful.
Apparently they want to replace ASM with python (potential vurnerability?), which unfortunately isn't a viable replacement for ASM, because it's an interpreted language.  :(
As much as I'm excited for native support of python on a calculator, I'd much rather still have the option to compile anything to native code for the performance boost.
/e

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2020, 06:25:32 pm »
From what I could understand, a TI-83 Premium CE python program cannot be larger than 17.7 KB of executable code and there are a few commands that are proprietary rather than actual python. Speed is also a problem. Here is a video of the same program running on different calculator models:




Don't expect a CE python port of Reuben Quest anytime soon.
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Offline Eeems

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Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2020, 06:49:39 pm »
From what I could understand, a TI-83 Premium CE python program cannot be larger than 17.7 KB of executable code and there are a few commands that are proprietary rather than actual python. Speed is also a problem. Here is a video of the same program running on different calculator models:

Don't expect a CE python port of Reuben Quest anytime soon.
That's really disappointing to hear :( My understanding was that it supports python through a separate arm chip. I would say I'm surprised at how bad the performance is, but this is TI we are talking about :/
/e

Offline Jean-Baptiste Boric

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Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2020, 10:27:34 am »
What is your opinion on this change by TI?

We haven't seen them doing something that stupid since the TI signing key legal mess a decade ago. They've truly outdone themselves this time. Throwing their community off a cliff without a warning by removing an advertised feature and deciding that the squeaky toy that is their Python port shall be a replacement of ASM/C, no take-backs.

Vote with your wallet. Don't buy TI. They do not care about anything but money.

From what I could understand, a TI-83 Premium CE python program cannot be larger than 17.7 KB of executable code and there are a few commands that are proprietary rather than actual python.

You'd be lucky to get a Python script bigger than ~5 KiB running. MicroPython scripts on calculators tend to require 2 to 4 times their size in heap in order not to run out of memory.
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Offline ACagliano

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Open letter to TI
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2020, 01:50:20 pm »
I posted this to Cemetech and now am here and will also on Codewalrus.

Quote
I would even propose calling TI's bluff on something. Write TI a letter, signed by a EVERY major calc development community - Cemetech, Omnimaga, Codewalrus (unity is important on this), informing them that if they do not revise their decision on C/asm, and implement exam security in a way that is conducive to teaching, learning, and doing programming, we the community will be designing, releasing and marketing our own calculator to compete with them. And if they do not walk it back.. actually follow through.

There is no action legally they could take to prevent this: it would be our own hardware and programming, no copying of names, symbols, anything. Free market, people can compete with whoever they want.

Offline Eeems

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Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2020, 02:17:39 pm »
I posted this to Cemetech and now am here and will also on Codewalrus.

Quote
I would even propose calling TI's bluff on something. Write TI a letter, signed by a EVERY major calc development community - Cemetech, Omnimaga, Codewalrus (unity is important on this), informing them that if they do not revise their decision on C/asm, and implement exam security in a way that is conducive to teaching, learning, and doing programming, we the community will be designing, releasing and marketing our own calculator to compete with them. And if they do not walk it back.. actually follow through.

There is no action legally they could take to prevent this: it would be our own hardware and programming, no copying of names, symbols, anything. Free market, people can compete with whoever they want.
What bluff? We don't make up enough of their customer base for them to care. Not to mention, we'd need to be competing with them in a space that they already have competition in (HP & Casio). We would need to get the calculator we create to be approved for use on standardized tests, which is not easy, or cheap.
/e

Offline E37

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Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2020, 09:20:00 pm »
I posted this to Cemetech and now am here and will also on Codewalrus.

Quote
I would even propose calling TI's bluff on something. Write TI a letter, signed by a EVERY major calc development community - Cemetech, Omnimaga, Codewalrus (unity is important on this), informing them that if they do not revise their decision on C/asm, and implement exam security in a way that is conducive to teaching, learning, and doing programming, we the community will be designing, releasing and marketing our own calculator to compete with them. And if they do not walk it back.. actually follow through.

There is no action legally they could take to prevent this: it would be our own hardware and programming, no copying of names, symbols, anything. Free market, people can compete with whoever they want.
What bluff? We don't make up enough of their customer base for them to care. Not to mention, we'd need to be competing with them in a space that they already have competition in (HP & Casio). We would need to get the calculator we create to be approved for use on standardized tests, which is not easy, or cheap.
If we would be able to make any threats it would be that we would circumvent test security. But since that is (likely) more possible with assembly and basic I don't see that we would have any leverage. Wouldn't our best option to be to hope for an exploit to make custom cracked OSes that allow assembly?
I'm still around... kind of.

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Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2020, 09:47:48 am »
That't demo was hilarious DJ Omnimaga! God I hate how TI has gone and jabbed a knife in our backs!
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: TI removes native code support from TI-83 Premium CE/TI-84 Plus CE
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2020, 03:45:09 pm »
TI has now added a warning about OS 5.5/5.6 removing ASM and blocking downgrades on their website. https://education.ti.com/en/software/update/84-ce-software-update/84ce-download?q1=84-ce&count=1
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF



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