Omnimaga
Omnimaga => News => Topic started by: DJ Omnimaga on April 20, 2011, 02:46:27 pm
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Not so long ago, we reported about the Boot2 that comes with OS 3.0.1 installing a strong anti-downgrade protection on your TI-Nspire that couldn't be bypassed without extra hardware. Well... this was nothing. Now you got even more reasons to run your OS through TNOC (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1922) before installing it on your calculator, because now there are at least 4 reports of calculators being bricked by unmodified OS 3.0.1 copies!
(Note that all reports are in French)
Report #1 on TI-BANK (http://tibank.forumactif.com/t6911-probleme-demarrage-nspire-touchpad)
2nd one on Univers-TI-Nspire (http://www.univers-ti-nspire.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2582#p2582)
3rd report of the bug (same thread) (http://www.univers-ti-nspire.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2592#p2592)
Yet another one (http://www.univers-ti-nspire.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=2615#p2615)
As explained in the TI-BANK news (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1060)warning people about this discovered problem, when a TI-Nspire boots, it first goes through the Boot1, then launch Boot2 around 60% of the progress bar, to finally launch the OS at 100%:
(http://i23.servimg.com/u/f23/13/23/13/53/nsboot10.gif)
However, for the the three people above, at 60%, their calculator hangs there:
(http://i23.servimg.com/u/f23/13/23/13/53/noboot10.gif)
Then after a while, it changes to this, before the calculator turns OFF:
(http://i23.servimg.com/u/f23/13/23/13/53/nsboot11.gif)
(All images are from TI-BANK (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1060) news)
In other words, it locks down on Boot2 launch, which, according to tests done by Critor in this topic (http://tibank.forumactif.com/t6911-probleme-demarrage-nspire-touchpad) means that something wrong happened to it, such as corruption or its complete deletion.
Without a Boot2, you may be able to continue using the calculator for a while, because OS 3.0 installs the new Boot image only after the first boot, but as soon as it will go back in hibernation mode due to extended non-use, you will not only never be able to use your calculator again, but also the USB port will no longer work!
This problem reminds a bit of what happened to some people calculators running version 2.0 of the OS, which prompted TI to quickly release 2.0.1. There was also a similar issue with OS 2.1, because 2.1 only booted with version 1.4 of Boot2. OS 3.0 fixed this by forcing people who have OS 1.3 or lower to upgrade to OS 1.7 prior upgrading to OS 3.0, but it seems like they once again messed up somewhere else, breaking something in the updated Boot2 code.
If this happened to you, the only possible way to fix your calculator would be through an external RS232 interface (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1038), something that is not necessarily available for everyone and that will scare away those who are not familiar with electronics:
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/13/23/13/53/downgr10.jpg)
(Image from TI-BANK (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1038) news)
In other words, we recommend against installing OS 3.0.1 until this is fixed! If you absolutely need to use OS 3.0.1, for example to run Lua games or use 3D graphing, then make sure to get rid of its Boot2 image using TNOC software (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1922) before installing the operating system on your calculator! Doing this will also remove the anti-downgrade protection reported on in a previous news.
TNOC Software download link (http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1922)
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Woah. That's such a massive fail from TI.
Way to go, TI.
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Epic fail from TI, so this has nothing to do with our hacks, it's pure TI bricking calculators. Any way to fix it so far?
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This is the 3rd reason for me to go with Casio. TI failed again. And everyone is like "OMG TI iz teh best company ever" on the Facebook page.
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Scout: yup, the way to fix the calculator is described in the first post ;)
DJ, you can make that four people: same report in http://www.univers-ti-nspire.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&p=2615#p2615 .
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Epic fail from TI, so this has nothing to do with our hacks, it's pure TI bricking calculators. Any way to fix it so far?
You need some sort of hardware mentionned in the news post to do so. To prevent this from happening you can also remove Boot2 3.0 from the OS using TNOC.
And thanks for the report Lionel, I'll add it.
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Wow, OS 3.0 has brought epic fail for TI. :P
-Downgrade protection "broken" with TNOC
-Free game development with Lua
-Broken CAS Engine
-Bricking Nspires with boot 2 3.0
I can only imagine what is next... :P
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Well free game dev isn't necessarily intentional nor bad, though. :P However when they find out I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to prevent it in OS 3.1 or later
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Unbelievable.../me can understand why people kill(j/k)
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/me is scared.
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Epic fail from TI, so this has nothing to do with our hacks, it's pure TI bricking calculators. Any way to fix it so far?
You need some sort of hardware mentionned in the news post to do so. To prevent this from happening you can also remove Boot2 3.0 from the OS using TNOC.
And thanks for the report Lionel, I'll add it.
Yeah, hardware! I saw it now.
Perhaps TI will warn clients on their website. If they don't, it's too bad.
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This is a reason why I'm sticking with my TI-86.
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I just wish the 86 had an ARM9 inside :P
Man.....they should just give up. Maybe release the OS keys :P
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This is the 3rd reason for me to go with Casio. TI failed again. And everyone is like "OMG TI iz teh best company ever" on the Facebook page.
they delete negative posts and try to bann the person who wrote them...
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This is the 3rd reason for me to go with Casio. TI failed again. And everyone is like "OMG TI iz teh best company ever" on the Facebook page.
they delete negative posts and try to bann the person who wrote them...
So true...
I'm seriously waiting for this to turn into brown text. Like seriously? This couldn't be more of a fail from TI if it's true.
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I saw Critor post it on ticalc.org and other sites. I'm afraid it's real!
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Man, they really messed up this time x.x
I saw Critor post it on ticalc.org and other sites. I'm afraid it's real!
He did? I don't see it...
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Wow... This is absolutely terrible. :(
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Man, they really messed up this time x.x
I saw Critor post it on ticalc.org and other sites. I'm afraid it's real!
He did? I don't see it...
He definitely told about on ticalc.org. Here's a screen shot.
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Oh, I thought you meant it was posted as news. Which it should D:
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\o/
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/me stabs Levak
But he has a point. It might actually help our cause. Huh.
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/me stabs Levak
=(
But he has a point. It might actually help our cause. Huh.
=)
This evening was particulary epic on http://www.univers-ti-nspire.fr/forum/ (fr) about those destructions. (3 in 2 days)
So yeah, this is my point of view :
\o/
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It's the official french TI forum.
Some T3 teacher said (probably without reading/understanding anything) we were responsible for all this, as we were using unauthorised OSes and encouraging their use on TI-Bank...
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That's just silly x.x Do we know exactly how it goes wrong?
Critor, wait, what? It seems that they definitely did not understand anything. :(
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They're just stupid. I guess they put blames on us whenever stuff happens.
Well... they'll see in a few years if we unite with Cemetech boycott of the TI-Nspire CX and that almost no game are being produced for the new OS and students decides to go with calculators that they heard there were games for, such as the Casio Prizm or older TI-Nspire calcs.
(http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7943.0;attach=7446;image)
Do you REALLY run Windows 3.1??? O.O
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Win3.11
Looks like he does...
Cemetech's boycotting the CX?
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I'd rather run Windows 3.1 than TI-Nspire 3.0 :P
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Wow, I just read the thread on Cemetech. I think I'll get a Prizm instead of a CX...
(If anyone else didn't read it, it's right here: http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5861 (http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5861))
If anyone who has a Prizm could answer the following questions, it would be greatly appreciated.
1. Can it simplify fractions like (1/2)+(32/7)=71/14?
2. Can it do prime factorizations like factor(221)=13*17?
3. Can it add nth roots like (3*root(2,8))+(5*root(2,2))=11*sqrt(2)?
4. Is input handled as well as it is with mathprint on the TI calcs?
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This is just sad. Texas Instrument's quality control has been lacking for years, and it only seems to be getting worse. It amazes me how many issues they've had with the Nspire since it's release.
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If anyone who has a Prizm could answer the following questions, it would be greatly appreciated.
1. Can it simplify fractions like (1/2)+(32/7)=71/14?
2. Can it do prime factorizations like factor(221)=13*17?
3. Can it add nth roots like (3*root(2,8))+(5*root(2,2))=11*sqrt(2)?
4. Is input handled as well as it is with mathprint on the TI calcs?
1) Yes. However you need to use the ab/c button instead of (1÷2)+(32÷7) to get your result. The calculator can display it in two different modes, so it may come out as 5(1/4) rather than 71/14 though, depending on your settings.
2) Not without a program. I've attached such a program below :)
3) Nope. It can only return the numerical answer.
EDIT:
4) It's faster if that's what you're asking :P
It uses the same textbox style entry though.
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1) Yes. However you need to use the ab/c button instead of (1÷2)+(32÷7) to get your result. The calculator can display it in two different modes, so it may come out as 5(1/4) rather than 71/14 though, depending on your settings.
2) Not without a program. I've attached such a program below :)
3) Nope. It can only return the numerical answer.
Awesome, thank you very much! I think I'll look for a Prizm in retail stores this week.
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Some T3 teacher said (probably without reading/understanding anything) we were responsible for all this, as we were using unauthorised OSes and encouraging their use on TI-Bank...
That doesn't surprise me... Soon, even TI-CARES might start blaming us for their own glitches!
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This is just sad. Texas Instrument's quality control has been lacking for years, and it only seems to be getting worse. It amazes me how many issues they've had with the Nspire since it's release.
Yeh, about now some teachers have to be wondering what they got into by buying nspires and navigator systems for their classes only to find that OS 3.0 and nspire cx made all that obsolete. I mean they could have went the safe route with 84 or the more recent Prizm and saved all those head aches.
It looks like ti's quality control problem is that they don't have any quality control. The business model seems to be "throw it out there, let the customer find out if it works, and fix it later." Wonder what cx problems will be discovered when it becomes available?
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I have installed the official release of OS 3.0. But I did battery pull more than 5 times while I was testing Lua programming. Nothing wrong happened.
My OS version is 3.0.1.1753 and Boot2 ver. 3.1.131.
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3. Can it add nth roots like (3*root(2,8))+(5*root(2,2))=11*sqrt(2)?
Will do in math mode.
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This is just sad. Texas Instrument's quality control has been lacking for years, and it only seems to be getting worse. It amazes me how many issues they've had with the Nspire since it's release.
Yeh, about now some teachers have to be wondering what they got into by buying nspires and navigator systems for their classes only to find that OS 3.0 and nspire cx made all that obsolete. I mean they could have went the safe route with 84 or the more recent Prizm and saved all those head aches.
It looks like ti's quality control problem is that they don't have any quality control. The business model seems to be "throw it out there, let the customer find out if it works, and fix it later." Wonder what cx problems will be discovered when it becomes available?
They ditched the Clickpads pretty early out, so now teachers would have to worry about multiple keyboard layouts for the TI-Nspire.
But I'm definitely sticking with System 2.0 on my Nspire. And my trusty old TI-86.
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I have installed the official release of OS 3.0. But I did battery pull more than 5 times while I was testing Lua programming.
Did you make it run out of memory or something? If you just make a plain old infinite loop, you can exit by holding down the On key for a couple seconds.
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Will the press-to-test mode do anything about this?
Just an idea...
Never mind that, the calculator is bricked :P
If only we could edit the OS by bypassing the RSA, we could fix this :(
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They're just stupid. I guess they put blames on us whenever stuff happens.
Well... they'll see in a few years if we unite with Cemetech boycott of the TI-Nspire CX and that almost no game are being produced for the new OS and students decides to go with calculators that they heard there were games for, such as the Casio Prizm or older TI-Nspire calcs.
(http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=7943.0;attach=7446;image)
Do you REALLY run Windows 3.1??? O.O
I'm afraid so.
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I'm afraid so.
O.O
How old is your PC?
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His computer was, most probably, made during the first half of the 1990s :)
At work, last year, I reassembled several ISA cards into a motherboard bearing a soldered AMD 386 SX 40, plugged one of several 52 MB HDDs with DOS 6.x & Win 3.1... and for good measure, a trackball, whose drivers are on 5"1/4 floppy disks labelled "Logitech 1989". Most parts were made in the first half of the 1990s.
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His computer was, most probably, made during the first half of the 1990s :)
At work, last year, I reassembled several ISA cards into a motherboard bearing a soldered AMD 386 SX 40, plugged one of several 52 MB HDDs with DOS 6.x & Win 3.1... and for good measure, a trackball, whose drivers are on 5"1/4 floppy disks labelled "Logitech 1989". Most parts were made in the first half of the 1990s.
Wow... It's been a while since I've seen/used hardware that old. :)
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https://groups.google.com/group/tinspire/t/709cd4b042675933
The TI-Nspire Google group is now aware of the Omnimaga topic about the OS 3.0.1 upgrade bricking some calculators, I've replied to the person who brought the matter based on the information we have.
And subsequently, "Eric Findlay" made a thoroughly silly reply, showcasing his wide incompetence and untrustworthiness on the matter: that only the calculators which had been tampered with are affected, that TI put some code to detect tampering and brick calculators, and that if one uses the software in ways condoned by TI, they shall be fine.
Yeah, sure :D
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Yeah, and CHDK (http://chdk.wikia.com/wiki/CHDK) and Rockbox (http://www.rockbox.org/) void your warranties. Nobody ever bothers to ask the engineers whether what they're saying is even plausible.
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I'm afraid so.
O.O
How old is your PC?
My desktop computer is 15, and my laptop is 17.
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O_o old. My dad's laptop is severely outdated and slow and it's 6 years old.
This is another one of the many "fails" TI has made. It's all the reason to get a Casio or HP calc. :/
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Another report here in Chinese:
http://fxesms.5d6d.com/thread-5916-1-1.html
But he said he had removed BOOT2 by TNOC.
(I woder if he only removed example files...)
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maybe he thought he did, but he might have used the original file, not the changed one :P TNOC makes an auto backup, right?
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FAIL AGAIN! They try and block us with anti-downgrade protection, just like in OS 2.1, and FAIL! We get dead calcs. Hope TI is paying compensation to these people.
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Has anyone considered the long term price for us keeping circumventing their protections without the RSA keys? I mean seriously, they keep trying to lock it down with any means possible. We need another OS or something.
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hmm... this sucks D:
more reason to not get a new nspire, as it will have 3.0.1 preinstalled
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5th case (ch) :
http://fxesms.5d6d.com/thread-5916-1-1.html
6th case (fr) :
http://www.univers-ti-nspire.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=516&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30#p2679
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2 more reports on TI-Bank.
http://tibank.forumactif.com/t6932p30-l-hecatombe-des-boot2#110119
8 reported bricked TI-Nspire since the OS 3.0 release up to now...
How many reports untill TI removes OS 3.0 from the servers?
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At which case number is TI going to remove OS 3.0 from its servers?...
2 more reports on TI-Bank.
8 reported bricked TI-Nspire since the OS 3.0 release...
Does TI even acknowledge the problem?
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At which case number is TI going to remove OS 3.0 from its servers?...
2 more reports on TI-Bank.
8 reported bricked TI-Nspire since the OS 3.0 release...
Does TI even acknowledge the problem?
No, they don't.
Maybe we should create a separate topic just to list all the cases of this happening?
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At which case number is TI going to remove OS 3.0 from its servers?...
2 more reports on TI-Bank.
8 reported bricked TI-Nspire since the OS 3.0 release...
Does TI even acknowledge the problem?
Yes they do and qualified it as "frequent"...
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At which case number is TI going to remove OS 3.0 from its servers?...
2 more reports on TI-Bank.
8 reported bricked TI-Nspire since the OS 3.0 release...
Does TI even acknowledge the problem?
Yes they do and qualified it as "frequent"...
Where?
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At which case number is TI going to remove OS 3.0 from its servers?...
2 more reports on TI-Bank.
8 reported bricked TI-Nspire since the OS 3.0 release...
Does TI even acknowledge the problem?
Yes they do and qualified it as "frequent"...
Where?
Not where it matters... It needs to be on the OS download page.
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One of the victims has been said on the phone by TI-Cares France that the problem was frequent, and that they were waiting for support from TI-USA.
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One of the victims has been said on the phone by TI-Cares France that the problem was frequent, and that they were waiting for support from TI-USA.
Ouch... I hope TI replaces those calcs. Do we know what causes it?
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TI has just officially announced that a new OS will be released next month.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Texas-Instruments-France/132142133466165
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TI has just officially announced that a new OS will be released next month.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Texas-Instruments-France/132142133466165
Thats good to hear! :)
Hopefully, they won't do anything to hurt Lua (although I really doubt they will!).
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They should have corrected these bugs before they released it.
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That's not how TI runs their programming!
Seriously, they release like they're an Open Source project, but since they don't have "Alpha" and "Beta" versions the release the buggy stuff as official releases.
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Another one:
http://www.fixya.com/support/t8963413-39_ve_updated_yesterday
OS 3.0 is just like a computer virus :P
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Check this:
http://www.facebook.com/mrsmathwi/posts/201576909882941
Is my post going to be removed? :P
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I wonder what the new OS will be like. Will it just be a bug fix or will they also block Lua development without the 1024/2048 bit code
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Woah, that bug has done a lot of damage...
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Hmm I hope they are not charging for calc replacements... this would be even more terrible of them considering they are the ones who screwed up.
Also I hate how staff on a certain non-calc-dev forum (I think they're TI employees, right?) puts the blame on the TI community for these issues, claiming they're because of Ndless and that we're using innapropriate OSes (anything from OS 1.1 to 2.1? ???)
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"Inappropriate"??? That's just stupid. The calcs will come with one of those on them. :P
Just wait until ndless 3.0 :P
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Hmm I hope they are not charging for calc replacements... this would be even more terrible of them considering they are the ones who screwed up.
Also I hate how staff on a certain non-calc-dev forum (I think they're TI employees, right?) puts the blame on the TI community for these issues, claiming they're because of Ndless and that we're using innapropriate OSes (anything from OS 1.1 to 2.1? ???)
I can't figure out who you mean? How bout a good hint.
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Check the TI-Nspire Google Group logs for example...
(http://i23.servimg.com/u/f23/13/23/13/53/death310.gif)
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Well, IMO, they will probably harm Lua programming, at least harm the way we're currently using it (without having reversed and independently reimplemented their 0D compression method).
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Is that an actual screenshot critor?
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Hmm I hope they are not charging for calc replacements... this would be even more terrible of them considering they are the ones who screwed up.
Also I hate how staff on a certain non-calc-dev forum (I think they're TI employees, right?) puts the blame on the TI community for these issues, claiming they're because of Ndless and that we're using innapropriate OSes (anything from OS 1.1 to 2.1? ???)
I can't figure out who you mean? How bout a good hint.
I'M not giving out names, but on the official french TI-Nspire forum, some TI employees/teachers there blames the TI community for their OS problems. I am sure this happened on the TI-Nspire Google Group, too.
graphmastur nope, this was photoshopped.
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Yup, blaming the community for OS 3.0 + boot2 3.0 bricking calculators occurred on both the tinspire Google group and on TI's official French-speaking Nspire forum. The incompetents who blurted out such stupidities got rebutted by various people, including the problem reporters when they posted that they were not using Ndless (some of them didn't know what it was, anyway).
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At last, TI has removed the dangerous 3.0 OS from its server. (we had to fight for a full week for that... they didn't want to believe: we were lying, we were responsible for this by using Ndless/TNOC...)
http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1068
For the non-CX Nspire, the downloadable OSes are back to 2.1.
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At last, TI has removed the dangerous 3.0 OS from its server.
Well, finally :P
(we had to fight for a full week for that... they didn't want to believe: we were lying, we were responsible for this by using Ndless/TNOC...)
Wtf... TNOC was the only way to make it work.
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At last, TI has removed the dangerous 3.0 OS from its server. (we had to fight for a full week for that... they didn't want to believe: we were lying, we were responsible for this by using Ndless/TNOC...)
http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1068
For the non-CX Nspire, the downloadable OSes are back to 2.1.
Yeh, I noticed that to. Bricked calc's are very costly to ti and to their reputation. You would think that TI would want to thank this community for the help.
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Good move from their part. Now hoping that the next OS will be stable and not contain extra protections...
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Good move from their part. Now hoping that the next OS will be stable and not contain extra protections...
Next Os? What am I missing here? When Ti changed the nspire os download from 3.0 to 2.1 I thought that was their solution to the bricking problem and they wouldn't do anything more about it. No?
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It's a huge degrade from 3.0 to 2.1 (a lot of new features), so I doubt they'd leave it like this. And there's some talk of a new OS update in May, anyway.
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It's a huge degrade from 3.0 to 2.1 (a lot of new features), so I doubt they'd leave it like this. And there's some talk of a new OS update in May, anyway.
I was thinking they would use the problem as an excuse to force people that want the new features into buying a new (cx) calc. Then they can ignore the problem and it is a win-win for them.
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Good move from their part. Now hoping that the next OS will be stable and not contain extra protections...
Next Os? What am I missing here? When Ti changed the nspire os download from 3.0 to 2.1 I thought that was their solution to the bricking problem and they wouldn't do anything more about it. No?
No, they announced on their fb page (the french one) that a fix would come out in May. I bet it will be OS 3.0.2 or something. The OS was most likely removed so people won't damage their calc with it.
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Good move from their part. Now hoping that the next OS will be stable and not contain extra protections...
I hope you are right. :)
Next Os? What am I missing here? When Ti changed the nspire os download from 3.0 to 2.1 I thought that was their solution to the bricking problem and they wouldn't do anything more about it. No?
No, they announced on their fb page (the french one) that a fix would come out in May. I bet it will be OS 3.0.2 or something. The OS was most likely removed so people won't damage their calc with it.
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I'm assuming you meant to type something after quoting Dingus? I mean outside the quote, that is. :D I see you typed "I hope you are right".
And I hope that this is because they realized they needed to fix bugs. Although, how escalated was it? I mean it wasn't slashdotted or anything. If it was because they saw it needed to be fixed, where did they see it? Maybe they watch ticalc.org?
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For information, there's been a semi-official attack against TNOC by some T3 teacher on the official french TI forum.
The T3 teacher was referring to TNOC as a modified TI OS (which means he didn't check the source: the OS, which means the TI-Nspire.img file inside the pkzip archive, is unaltered during the process), and was stating that using TNOC would void your warranty, although the generated TNC/TNO file is 100% made of unaltered TI code.
http://www.univers-ti-nspire.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=528&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30#p2926
Isn't it the duty of a teacher to take care of his students first?...
Because, it seems that for this T3 teacher, it's better for students to not use TNOC and install the full 3.0.1 OS, with the risk of bricking your calculator... I hardly understand the logic behind this...
He's the same teacher who stated we were responsible for bricked TI-Nspire by using modified OSes...
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teacher might be brainwashed by TI...
some people will just believe what they want to be true
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Wizard's First Rule
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TI-France has finally officially mentionned the 3.0 bricking bug on FaceBook:
http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=1083