Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Discontinued => Major Community Projects => OTcalc => Topic started by: alberthrocks on September 05, 2010, 09:07:18 pm
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Well, after tallying up the results, we have a winner! :)
First, I'd like to say thanks to everyone who voted. It's a community project, so we need a solid base of features to stand and develop on. Without YOU, this project that started from an innocent IRC chat and forum post wouldn't have turned into a massive project that hopefully will bob along in the coming months. Remember, we need U in Comm_nity to make it work! ;)
Anyway, let's get to the results: about 1-2 days ago, I counted all the votes in each website and poll, and tabled them inside OpenOffice.org Spreadsheet, which is basically an open source Excel, but not as good or as fun. :P That said, it definitely wasn't hard to use, but one of my complaints was getting the charts and tables to an image. That was a PAIN to do, but I found a workflow for it:
1) Copy chart or table to OpenOffice.org Drawing.
2) Resize the page to fit it.
3) Export the entire thing as PDF - make sure to choose uncompressed. (Images, I think?)
4) Open up the PDF in GIMP, adjust any import settings (I didn't need to, but as always, mileage may vary), and then export as a PNG. (Or make any edits and then do so)
100% FOSS, with these steps. Not bad, eh?
Anyway, let's actually get to the results. ;)
Here's the graph, with separate bars for the websites:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016340/OTZ80PollResults/GraphImageSeparated.png (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016340/OTZ80PollResults/GraphImageSeparated.png)
Here's the combined (both websites in one bar):
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016340/OTZ80PollResults/GraphImageCombined.png (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016340/OTZ80PollResults/GraphImageCombined.png)
Here's the final table: (click to enlarge)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016340/OTZ80PollResults/PollResultsTable-NOWHITESPACE-Small.png) (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016340/OTZ80PollResults/PollResultsTable.png)
Let's break it down:
Wifi: Obviously it's kind of a no no for Wifi for not just the community, but the testing guys probably don't like it either. Obviously, the verdict is no (no Wifi).
Link cable: People love the port/cable size of headphones, and the fact that it's pretty common too. Yup, you guessed it: the verdict is 3.5mm.
SD card poll: This was definitely a tough decision. People loved the idea... but had to deal with licensing alternatives, and cost/implementation, plus the uses for it. Well, unfortunately for SD card lovers, the verdict is no SD card slot.
Screen resolution poll: This was quite an interesting poll. It's pretty hard to pick from 2, but this? Everyone had to pick from 4! Debates ensued, ranging from the processor's ability to handle such a screen, to having better features than the old TI-8x series. Obviously, no one chose the 96x64 screen again. In the end, there was a narrow lead for the winning feature - one that was just double of the old resolution. That's right - the verdict is 192x128.
Physical navigation poll: Apparently no one liked the touchpad (and for good reason - it's so darned small!). This final decision is old fashioned (so to speak). Obviously, the verdict is arrow keys.
Battery poll: Battery itself is an interesting poll. It's pretty significant, since that's the thing that gets the gears running inside the calc. Everybody had split decisions inside this poll, but the winner? The verdict is an AA battery (rechargeable if possible).
Keyboard/input poll: This was also an interesting poll, but pretty obvious too. It pretty much decides how you type stuff in, like when making programs. Needless to say, we love sticking to old habits. The verdict is alpha lock.
Backlit screen poll: This poll was pretty obvious. It's a pretty cool feature to have. The verdict is yes (have a backlit screen).
Battery indicator light poll: The idea itself kind of sounded shady a bit. It was an interesting idea, but as always, debates spurred questioning placement and usability. In the end, the verdict is no (no battery indicator light).
USB poll: This was also another interesting poll. Cemetech was pretty sleepy when this was posted, since there was only one vote (out of all the options, just one vote - what's up with that, Cemetech?). It basically asks "How do you want to connect your calc to the computer?" Some debates occurred with this one, but the final decision? The verdict is mini USB.
Wow.... that was pretty interesting, wasn't it? ;)
The next step in the process is getting a defined parts list that go together to implement these features. Threads/topics will be opened soon for those discussions.
So for a quick roundup of features:
No Wifi
3.5 mm link cable/port
No SD card
192x128
Arrow keys
AA battery (rechargeable if possible)
Alpha lock
Backlit screen
No battery indicator light
Mini USB
Final features (as in excluding the "nos"):
- 3.5 mm link cable/port
- 192x128 screen
- Arrow keys for directional input
- AA battery (rechargeable if possible) for power
- Alpha lock for alphanumerical and symbol input
- Backlit screen for viewing in dark places
- Mini USB for file transfers between calc and PC (or calc to calc)
All the source files (including the spreadsheets, both in Excel and OpenDocument format) are located here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016340/OTZ80PollResults/index.html (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1016340/OTZ80PollResults/index.html)
Again, thanks to everybody who voted! :D Let's hope that this project doesn't become vaporware... ;) (And I'm being serious too! Hopefully it'll be like the Pandora, without the downfalls and failures...)
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Interesting results!
Thanks for all of your hard work on this, alberthrocks! :D
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every single one of the things i voted for are the winners (: except the battery indicator light.. but that's not a huge part of a calculator. looks solid, nice work alberthrocks!
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I was kinda hoping for the regular size usb (for absoutely no reason except I don't really like mini usbs), but other than that, I think everything I voted for won!
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im happiest with the screen resolution.
it will allow all the detail of 16*16 tilemappers without the incredibly crowded feel they cause on ti models. it will also make spriting easier(for me, at least) because i can only make sprites look decent when they're small. furthermore, 4 times the screen seemed fitting for 4 times the processing power =D.
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For those that are curious, the results are posted on the wiki here (http://otcalc.wikidot.com/z80-features)
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I voted for everything that won!
This calc will be awesome when it is finally done!
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for those who don't go to cemetech, you may want to read this thread (http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=110205#110205). it basically suggests we should redo the screen and backlight polls. why? because the chances of us finding exactly what we want is very slim. i tried to find a 192 x 128 backlit 4 bit grayscale LCD, and google returned a ton of links to Omnimaga and Cemetech talking about some OTZ80 calculator. i'm suggesting we should redo the poll. instead of having hardware features to vote on, we should have the actual LCD's to vote on. that way, when we come to a consensus on what to buy, we already know where to find it. if you're against this idea, i have a challenge for you. try to find the 192 x 128 16 level grayscale with a backlight LCD that we want. if you can't find it, my case in point. if you can, that's wonderful, and we can move on.
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Lol
(http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/1996.png)
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Interesting results and nice breakup summing up what people want. Nice post Alberthro. As for the LCD size issue, if it becomes too hard to find the size suggested, I guess the solution could be to use the size that is the closest and if there aren't any, then use the second place poll choice or any close LCD size.
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I just heard from my math teacher that when he went to a TI conference they said that the screen was the most expensive part of the calculator and that doubling the pixels in the screen would more than double the price of the calc (((83/84)+)SE) series.
Not entirely sure i believe it though, a computer has more processing power and has so many times more pixels, yet an average computer ranges from $500-$1000.
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My computer uses one of the old cathode ray screens, which are cheaper than lcd screens
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I actually prefer the crts- I think they look a lot better.
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I don't like CRTs much because the display is a bit distorted. The thing I dislike about LCDs though is that they look crappy when not used in their native resolutions.
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USB poll: This was also another interesting poll. Cemetech was pretty sleepy when this was posted, since there was only one vote (out of all the options, just one vote - what's up with that, Cemetech?). It basically asks "How do you want to connect your calc to the computer?" Some debates occurred with this one, but the final decision? The verdict is mini USB.
Well, I'm new here but can anyone explain why the most logical choice was not even included in pool? I mean micro USB, of course.
You'll probably ask: why do I think the only choice is the choice which is not even known to many? Simple: mobiles. If history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_(console)) is any indication we'll not see the finished product all that soon - and mobiles are switching to microUSB. The change happened recently and suddenly (http://www.interconnectionworld.com/index/display/article-display/1016522770/articles/connector-specifier/communications-connectivity/wireless-connectivity/2010/february/Industry_Associations_Endorse_Micro-USB_Standard_for_Mobile_Handsets.html) - but if you'll check new models... the change actually happened (I was sceptic at first too). All new mobiles come with microUSB. Samsung and Nokia, Motorola and HTC, LG and ZTE... everyone (except Apple) are supporting microUSB nowadays.
And if the connector will me Micro-AB (http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/283837096/Micro_USB_AB_type_female_usb.html) then you can connect two calcs using this (http://www.lindy.co.uk/05m-usb-otg-cable-black-type-micro-a-to-micro-b/31940.html) adapter, too...
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I think it was due to lack of MicroUSB support, but OTCalc project kinda died now that everyone is busy with school and things probably evolved a bit. I could be wrong about the reason why it was not included, but if I remember, there were many people against the idea of using MicroUSB.
Let me find the topic.
EDIT: Actually the reason why is stated in this post it seems:
The other option we have is microUSB but I'm not sure if you can have microUSB be a host like you can with Mini-A USB ports.
Edit: A quick Wikipedia check says that MicroUSB can indeed be a host but cables that would allow such use are much harder to find.
We have to keep in mind that rarer usually means more expensive, and outside United States usually means even more expensive, because companies in USA thinks the rest of the world doesn't exist.
EDIT: Poll topic: http://ourl.ca/6716
(Note, this discussion occured almost 6 months ago)
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Well, I think we like to stick to old habits for one thing and it doesn't make much difference from what I can see. I really want to see this project work, personally. I am actually going to research some LCD's now...
Edit:Oh, hey, waddaya know? DJ answered the question before me and with an actual supported reason :D
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it basically suggests we should redo the screen and backlight polls. why? because the chances of us finding exactly what we want is very slim. i tried to find a 192 x 128 backlit 4 bit grayscale LCD, and google returned a ton of links to Omnimaga and Cemetech talking about some OTZ80 calculator. i'm suggesting we should redo the poll. instead of having hardware features to vote on, we should have the actual LCD's to vote on. that way, when we come to a consensus on what to buy, we already know where to find it. if you're against this idea, i have a challenge for you. try to find the 192 x 128 16 level grayscale with a backlight LCD that we want. if you can't find it, my case in point. if you can, that's wonderful, and we can move on.
This would actually be a case where Google wouldn't be a good tool to use. Many manufacturers, particularly those in foreign countries, do not have their full catalogs available through Google's search algorithms. You generally need to contact manufacturers and get actual specs before you can get an idea about the availability of such a product.
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Sad to see this has died.
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???
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sorry I accidentally put in that link :P I meant for it in my sig, pressed ctrl+v too early
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I think it was due to lack of MicroUSB support, but OTCalc project kinda died now that everyone is busy with school and things probably evolved a bit. I could be wrong about the reason why it was not included, but if I remember, there were many people against the idea of using MicroUSB.
Well, the main reason was probably the fact that MicroUSB cables are so hard to find. Well, situation is different now - and it'll be even more different two years from now.
We have to keep in mind that rarer usually means more expensive, and outside United States usually means even more expensive, because companies in USA thinks the rest of the world doesn't exist.
Well, the Mini-A to Mini-B is not all that easy to find either. And prices are quite comparable.
EDIT: Poll topic: http://ourl.ca/6716
(Note, this discussion occured almost 6 months ago)
I see... Well, the hardware projects are much slower then software. Typical time from the idea to implementation is 3-4 years - if anything is produced at all. Perhaps closer to the release it'll be more clear if miniUSB is still viable choice.
Well, I think we like to stick to old habits for one thing and it doesn't make much difference from what I can see.
The difference is literally 2 times. Mini USB is certified for 5000 cycles of insertion and removal, microUSB is certified for 10'000. And this is not just numbers: microUSB is really more robust (that's why phone manufacturers chosen it in first place).
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it basically suggests we should redo the screen and backlight polls. why? because the chances of us finding exactly what we want is very slim. i tried to find a 192 x 128 backlit 4 bit grayscale LCD, and google returned a ton of links to Omnimaga and Cemetech talking about some OTZ80 calculator. i'm suggesting we should redo the poll. instead of having hardware features to vote on, we should have the actual LCD's to vote on. that way, when we come to a consensus on what to buy, we already know where to find it. if you're against this idea, i have a challenge for you. try to find the 192 x 128 16 level grayscale with a backlight LCD that we want. if you can't find it, my case in point. if you can, that's wonderful, and we can move on.
This would actually be a case where Google wouldn't be a good tool to use. Many manufacturers, particularly those in foreign countries, do not have their full catalogs available through Google's search algorithms. You generally need to contact manufacturers and get actual specs before you can get an idea about the availability of such a product.
Plus, notice how some stuff got weird resolutions anyway. The Prizm got a 384x216 resolution screen.
Sad to see this has died.
It is not officially dead. It is just dormant because the two main person working on planning this are extremly busy keeping their school grades high and other life stuff. OTCalc will most likely resume in June or July 2011.
I think it was due to lack of MicroUSB support, but OTCalc project kinda died now that everyone is busy with school and things probably evolved a bit. I could be wrong about the reason why it was not included, but if I remember, there were many people against the idea of using MicroUSB.
Well, the main reason was probably the fact that MicroUSB cables are so hard to find. Well, situation is different now - and it'll be even more different two years from now.
We have to keep in mind that rarer usually means more expensive, and outside United States usually means even more expensive, because companies in USA thinks the rest of the world doesn't exist.
Well, the Mini-A to Mini-B is not all that easy to find either. And prices are quite comparable.
EDIT: Poll topic: http://ourl.ca/6716
(Note, this discussion occured almost 6 months ago)
I see... Well, the hardware projects are much slower then software. Typical time from the idea to implementation is 3-4 years - if anything is produced at all. Perhaps closer to the release it'll be more clear if miniUSB is still viable choice.
Well, I think we like to stick to old habits for one thing and it doesn't make much difference from what I can see.
The difference is literally 2 times. Mini USB is certified for 5000 cycles of insertion and removal, microUSB is certified for 10'000. And this is not just numbers: microUSB is really more robust (that's why phone manufacturers chosen it in first place).
Yeah i guess that due to the time it will take to complete this project will most likely allow us to switch to some different USB and stuff in the end.
Fortunately, both main developers are in USA. If I developed this, I would end up paying prices that are 2 years out of date or not even be able to find some stuff. Example: where I live, the TI-84+ arrived on store shelves in 2006, even though the calc came out in 2004. The TI-Nspire arrived somewhere in 2008, even though it came out in 2007.
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Have we looked at Gameboys like the GBC, GBA, or GBA SP? If we could use some of the features there, that would be pretty cool...
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Wow... nice necropost. :P
As DJ said, it will come back in full force next summer, and we'll probably have more people on the ride, especially for HW development. :) The software part of this project though is being developed - KnightOS, but on the TI calcs first.
If you have any software/hardware experience, keep them alive and bring them next summer! :)
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Yeah true a bunch of them joined around this Summer/Fall as activity was rising. Hopefully they'll still be around next Summer. :)
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@Xeda:
Well, we've suggested: (not sure which got voted in or out)
Color Screen
Backlight
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Not sure what else the GBC and gba bring to technology :P sound is not going to have an integrated speaker, maybe through the link port, one of the voted-on things.
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Yeah, as alberthrocks said, this isn't dead. I'll look into microUSB, though.
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Yeah, as alberthrocks said, this isn't dead. I'll look into microUSB, though.
As for microUSB, I'm not sure I want to write KnightOS variant for a microUSB calculator. Not a lot of people have microUSB cables, and signifigantly less have male microUSB<->female USB cables, and I feel that it would provide a bad user experience and reflect poorly on my skills as an OS developer.
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As for microUSB, I'm not sure I want to write KnightOS variant for a microUSB calculator. Not a lot of people have microUSB cables, and signifigantly less have male microUSB<->female USB cables, and I feel that it would provide a bad user experience and reflect poorly on my skills as an OS developer.
Well, the "microUSB revolution" started at the beginning of the year and average replacement time is 18 months (somewhat longer in US because if 2-year contract). By the time we can realistically expect something mass-produced they will be more common then miniUSB cables. That's the point.
What you designing today you'll have on sale few years down the road - this rule it true for both large companies and hobbyst projects alike. That's why Pandora started taking pre-orders on September 30, 2008 and shipped on May 21, 2010. Note: by the middle of 2008 they had not only bunch of specs, but some actual prototypes - it took this long to actually mass-produce things! OTcalc is slightly less ambitious, but the difference is not material.
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How about this LCD? http://www.ecplaza.net/tradeleads/seller/7212681/192x128_dots_chinese.html (http://www.ecplaza.net/tradeleads/seller/7212681/192x128_dots_chinese.html)
The model with the controller supports only 4lvl grayscale, but we can find a 16lvl controller and use it with the controllerless version.