Author Topic: Apology about the TI-BANK incident  (Read 8305 times)

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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Apology about the TI-BANK incident
« on: March 03, 2010, 04:35:21 am »
Most of you are probably not aware of the following, but an incident occured on TI-BANK forums yesterday. Please read the following very carefully to not misinterpret it. It took me 3 hours to write so I make sure it's worded well enough, but this is important and I do hope it reaches as many TI-BANK members and Omnimaga members as possible.

People from Omnimaga who often frequent the IRC channel or have frequented the old board, as well as visitors who read this who frequent other forums since a long while ago, probably know I am a sensitive person and I am not stable. If I feel provocated and it has been a bad day, or if I get provocated several time in a short amount of time, even if by different people at different places, I may blow up. This happens once I have built up enough anger inside from previous events, then cannot take anything anymore.

Yesterday, around 3 PM afternoon, this happened on TI-BANK, building up over the previous day argument, add to this unrelated issues (such as hectic work week). It all started with usual misunderstoods resulting from text not being the best way to transmit emotions during communications, especially when smileys are not being used or not used properly and when netiquette varies from country to another (for example in France, posting in all caps is considered as yelling, while in USA it's considering as emphasis. In France, using "..." in reply to people messages is considered as pretty normal, while in USA it can be considered as rude. In France, ROM sharing is apparently legal while in USA it's not. If you notice, most french TI sites provide downloads to TI OSes and sometimes even ROMs.). Language barrier was another issue. French idioms/expressions are different from Quebec to France, to the point where I understand english better than France french (when I talk with Lionel Debroux in private, we almost always speak in english, despite french both being our native languages). Then there's my personality issue, of being too sensitive, and blowing up when pissed off. Basically, a misunderstood occured over a discussion about the legality of ROM sharing. Basically, TI-BANK website now provides GB and GBC ROMs in their TI-Nspire downloads section. Because I loved TI-BANK and didn't want Mic to get in trouble with his webhosting provider, Free.fr, which could shut down his site if he hosts something innapropriate, I asked TI-BANK admins if they knew if what they were doing was legal or not. They tried to prove me wrong, but the way parts of their posts were worded sounded like they were jumping on me, like if I was trolling or something worse. At this point I should just have started ignoring the conversation, so there would be no risk of blowing up anymore, but I did the mistake of not doing so. So now what happened is that The first post I interpreted this way was Critor post's first sentence, which was followed with a "...". Then I became angry and defended myself, saying if I was gonna be treated this way I would leave the site.

The following Critor reply seemed like an attack toward my sensitiveness, even if indirectly, then I blew up and as TsukasaZX would say, I "pulled a DJ". Basically I spammed their forums. However here's the issue: the spam contained shock sites images from Anon wiki known as EncyclopediaDramatica. These images, as most people on english internet sites know, contains extremly disgusting and possibly offensive gory images and nudity, normally not to be viewed by people underage. About 15 of them were posted, some in reply to existing topics and some as new topics. Then I got called from my job to get to work earlier. An hour later, I finally finished calming down completly but it was too late: I was not going to be able to revert the changes and apologise for the flood until 11 PM of my time. This is stuff I normally never do when I am feeling sane. It only ever happened during extreme moments of built-up anger, but unfortunately happened. I have tried to control myself in the past and tried to improve my situation since the past 19 years at least, but sadly, was unable to improve considerably even after I got help from a therapist 11 years ago, 8 years ago and from my mother 3 years ago. I overeact much less than I did as kid, but I still overeact. The only way for me to prevent this now is to avoid situations where I am at risk. Basically, online this means leaving every forum and channels where I risk having trouble and blowing up as much as possible and only visit places I feel safe at when I am feeling OK. This is why I sometimes don't frequent #ti for an entire week and sometimes even go off #omnimaga for an entire day. Yesterday afternoon, I did A HUGE mistake by continuing bothering about the ROM legality discussion. Had I not contributed anymore, this would not have happened at all and Omnimaga as a whole would not risk getting punished soon by my potential upcoming lack of internet access and lawsuits that might result from this.

Here's the TI-BANK thread where it all started:

http://tibank.forumactif.com/programmation-f21/testjeux-gb-gbc-sur-le-portail-t5159-30.htm

You can use a translator to understand if you don't speak french.

Now here's what might happen:

-Mic has taken legal action against me. I do not know the internet laws in France and Canada and do not know into how much trouble I can get for posting Goatse on a forum. What he wants is to either make me pay a fine/contravention/ticket or to force me to get institutionalized, or both.

-Critor, Marco and possibly other TI-BANK moderators and members has reported me to my ISP, Vidéotron, for posting these pictures on their forum.

-Mic is planning to tell what I did on every existing TI calculator forum, to turn everyone against me.

Basically, this means this might be one of my last Omnimaga post ever, as I may completly lose access to the internet or my home. It seems like my overeactions has finally gotten me in deep trouble.

From now on, all I can do is the following:

-Remove the said images: done. I was planning to remove them as soon as I return from work, even if no one would have told me to do so via e-mail. Had I not gotten work earlier, they would have been gone within minutes.

-Try to get Mic and Critor to not go to such extents (legal actions) and let us solve this the same way as other forums did: permanent forum ban, hating me or understanding me, then moving on: not fully done. There is slim chances this happens now that some of the legal actions were alerady taken and that this stuff seems taken much more seriously in Europe than in America.

-Apologise. See below:

So I want to apologise now for all the trouble I have caused at TI-BANK forums and the damage the adult content I have posted might have done to their reputation, especially if parents were browsing the site at the time, critor/Mic having recommended it to many. I would like to be given a chance, though, and ask Critor and Mic to stop their legal actions and to simply leave me with a ban. Because I am not a stable person, I need to avoid places where I am at risk of similar things happening, so even if I was unbanned, I would be leaving TI-BANK. And since what's done is done, I still think I do not deserve to be allowed back at TI-BANK. I still hope they understand, though, that some people can take comments the wrong way eaiser, and to take in consideration misunderstandings can happen, especially oversea, and that I acknowledge my blowing up on the forums was uncalled for and that I blew things up out of porportion before even exploding.

I also want to apologise to Critor for banning him from the forums and the channel even thought he did nothing here, and for calling him a hater in my ban message.

Should legal actions still continue against me anyway, I want to apologise in advance for my inactivity on Omnimaga forums due to no more access to it.

Regardless of what happens in the next days, week or months, I have taken as resolution to withdraw from every other TI calculator forum, to prevent such thing from happening again. I will remain active in #omnimaga and Omnimaga, and for the time being, in #ti, unless I am asked to leave.

So I hope I can get this solved in an easy way and that we can simply all move on, like we do in the english community. Otherwise, goodbye everyone in advance, in case I get disconnected before being able to say so, and please keep Omnimaga strong while I am gone. Hosting bill is paid automatically so this shouldn't be a problem

P.S: There is one thing I would like to comment on, about ROMs, though: I have never said I am against sharing them online. I was just worried about TI-BANK future so I wondered if it was legal or not. In fact, I even wish we could distribute these old ROMs on Omnimaga too. All the games that are no longer sold, almost no more money can be done from them and because they're so hard to find, few people can enjoy them anymore. Why make stuff some companies no longer care about illegal when it can still server some use without harming the gaming industry?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 01:22:10 am by DJ Omnimaga »

Offline Eeems

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Frik I hate web misunderstandings...I hope they stop the legal actions...
/e

Offline Galandros

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When someone has a weakness, some will attack it directly when they want the person away. Especially on Internet where you will never probably see and recognize the other person. I have seen this happening to another user, actually with comparable behaviour.

Anyway, I am curious to see if net etiquette has anything to say about the 3 points. About capitalization, the net etiquette says to avoid it. Anyway, net etiquette is not standardized varies from community and can be confused with common-sense.
Hobbing in calculator projects.

Offline Zera

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Don't read into this the wrong way, as I do mean well...

First off all, this is nothing to worry about. You haven't done anything illegal. On the Internet, you're are liberty to express whatever you like -- whether that be offensive or pornopgraphic. It only crosses the border of legality when you're making serious threats against someone's life or well-being -- and there is reasonable belief that you may act upon it -- or you are posting or exchanging illegal materials; (child pornography, warez, and so forth) or you are hacking the site and causing serious damage. Any given site is going to have its own rules, just as a private home or business-owner would have their own rules when it comes to their own property. Legally, you can't be obligated to abide by those rules -- only to acknowledge that you *must* leave someone's property when they tell you to do so, for whatever reason they deem appropriate. Within reason, you can only be expected to follow national laws, and whatever sort of legal contract you might have with your ISP. ISPs commonly don't care what you express, as long as you aren't using their services to spam advertisements or exchange anything illegal that might get them in trouble. Just imagine all these political hate-mongers who make a living blogging some Neo-Nazi nonsense every single day. Obviously, their ISPs don't care. Most don't. I'm sure they're in much deeper water than you, as far as libel and harassment goes. You should see some of the things *I've* posted in my bitter and spiteful campaigns against Wikipedia. I admit I'm not perfect. :P

Just remember that the Internet is mostly a disorganized and lawless zone. There's no central guiding oversight that maintains a harmonious order, or imposes consistent restrictions about what may be expressed or shared therein. Just obey your national laws, and don't violate whatever contract you might have with your ISP. The rest is of no consequence.

Secondly, you are a prisoner to your own emotions. Whatever you feel may be responsible for the existence of these emotions, or what might be the driving catalyst behind your inability to control them, is very likely beyond your direct influence. Because we cannot reasonably control or influence the actions of other people, it is futile to take offense to anything they express, or allow ourselves to react to things that are negative or intended to harm us -- we can only control ourselves, and what we feel. Emotions and things that are external to you (coming from other people, for instance) cannot touch you in any way, or influence your own thoughts and feelings. By willfully internalizing these things, you are shaping yourself in their image.

Imagine for a moment that your mind is your own universe, where you formally exist. Your eyes are a mirror, which reflect the limitations of your own knowledge, experience and emotion within this universe. The world you are observing outside of you takes its shape from these reflections. We can only see things from a biased perspective. If I'm a generally negative person, then I am going to find negative conclusions in most situations -- just as a generally positive person would do the converse. It all depends on what I am on the inside; but it always comes back to me. I am not necessarily being negative because something unfair is actually being done to me -- it may be entirely my doing if I create negative emotions about a situation that isn't negative to begin with. If negativity is all I know, then negativity is the only perspective my eyes will ever reflect as I am observing this world; but even if something blatantly hateful and negative is being directed at you by another person, you don't have to internalize it and allow it to control you. You have the choice to actively reject such emotions and perceptions, and prevent them from polluting your universe. It starts with awareness of these emotions.

Think about this: I am a victim to my own emotions. I am surrendering my will to these emotions. Anger, frustration, negavitiy, sorrow and regret have consumed my life. Why? What is the benefit of harboring such emotions? Each is necessary to our survival, to divert us from harmful situations, or to allow us to reflect on mistakes and change our behavior to avoid repeating them; but when these emotions are so constant that they feel more like an affliction, then you need to separate yourself from them to avoid causing internal harm.

Here is something for you to consider, Kevin. This is the first step in taking control of your emotions and finding your own peace in this life.

Offline Madskillz

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I learned a long time ago not to let things bother me. I may be pissed about how something went down or what was said, but I tend to not bring it up with that person again. I live by this when I'm at work and it has served me well....when I walk out those doors its done. Whatever crap happened back there to get me upset it isnt worth it, you often make mistakes and ruin your standings with someone.

Kevin, I have known you for a long time, I have also seen you blow up many times. Often rightly so, but other times the situation is often murky. First off dont worry about legal issues, they wont be able to do anything unless those nude pictures were of underage people and then you might be in some serious hurt. As Zera said there are plenty of hate groups with their own websites that are definitely watched but that is because they could be a danger to society. I will say this when you blow up it pisses a lot of people off. I know a lot of people in the community that were sick of all your blow ups and I know you have been banned from forums in the past. RevSoft included. And I hated to do it, but what you did on the forums (exactly what you did to TI-BANK) was more than deserving. You are a great guy and a great asset in the community. You create a welcoming environment here and I think it clearly shows because people keep coming back and you guys are one, if not the most active forums in the community however. These blowups are a huge issue, and I no people that wont step foot here because of what you have done on other forums. I was pretty pissed myself, but like I said it was in the past and I am not going to stop my presence because of some argument. Our community is too small for that, we all have to be willing to talk and work with each other.

As you said yourself Kevin you should have just left, you realized that but you didnt do that. Nobody can help you but you. Until you come to the conclusion that you yourself, can control your emotions. You'll have these blowups forever. I know you can grow from this Kevin, you are definitely a strong willed person. Let it go, you'll be fine.

Offline critor

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Hi.

This will be my only post in this thread.


-Try to get Mic and Critor to not go to such extents (legal actions)

I don't know about Mic, but I'm not going to do that.


By the way...

I have never said I am against sharing them online. I was just worried about TI-BANK future so I wondered if it was legal or not.

I know.
I was against uploading Game Boy ROMs (not sure you've seen my post last week).
But as they were uploaded despite that, I was asking myself some questions. I was worried too...
That's why I've answered to your post, asking for more information on various things.

The questions and examples weren't against you...
They weren't there to prove you wrong.

They were just there, so that we can better understand what's legal or not.
Although TI-Bank's server is not in America, Internet is international.
So I was looking forward to your reply, as you know the American laws much better than me.


Have courage - life is not easy.

Critor


Notice: English is not my native language. Usually, I only post technical informations in english. I didn't want to offend anyone in this post. Sorry if anything is not correctly written.

Offline TsukasaZX

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I don't recall ever coining the phrase "pull a DJ", but that's not of importance.

Zera is (or should be) correct in terms of legality and the internet. So long as you haven't violated federal or international laws by posting content such as child pornography, pirated software, malicious software, or content intended to threaten or endanger another person, you haven't really done anything to warrant legal action as a consequence. The internet is basically "let the browser beware". The internet is full of content that is offensive but by no means illegal. Outside of actual federal/international violations, the only "laws" on the internet are those that are established and maintained by the owners and administrators of the individual websites. You are only contractually obliged to obey these laws (contract with the site itself), not legally. There probably is some threshold of violation wherein the law can become involved but I am fairly certain that threshold could only be met if you went to a very extreme extent.
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Offline Silver Shadow

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Sorry to hear this DJ.
At least you apalogized and understood that you acted wrongly...

I hope that this kind of incidents won't happen on Omnimaga. It would really be a shame to lose you from the calc community.
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Offline Builderboy

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I'm going to use my 1000th post to say what I think is meaningful and true.

DJ, I haven't known you for as long as some, and indeed it took some time to get to know you for all that you are.  I've been on both sides of the fence in situations such as this, as much as i regret it, so i can say that I don't condemn you, nor should anybody else.  What Zera, Glandros, and Madskillz said have meaning as well, however there is a difference from being shown the path, and walking the path, as you implied you have started down many times.  For that, it takes courage, and I commemorate you for that.  While others may look down upon your actions, they neither know you nor understand you, as we can here.  If we all got to know each other a little better, maybe we could avoid conflicts such as these, and make this world a little happier.  As it is, you may have done some things that you are not proud of, but you realize this, and while it in no way cancels out the fact, it shows honesty to ones self, and I salute you for that.

Legal action is most likely impossible, for reasons others have already mentioned, so the only bridges to be repaired are those between people.

-We're always here to support you, we know how tough it can be sometimes, hang in there :)

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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thanks guys for the support. I think I deserved my ban punishment, though, and after having tried to control my emotions for 20 years and getting some help, I am the only person who knows if I can do it or not. Saying you can do it is fine, but it doesn't mean it,s as easy for everyone. This is why now all I can do to prevent such issues is avoiding every other forum as much as possible. Even if Mic would lift my ban on TI-BANK in a month, I would still not come back, simply because I am not confident I am stable enough to go back there. That said, since I am sometimes pretty busy I can,t really focus on other sites anymore. if you noticed, I rarely go on MSN anymore,same for AIM and yahoo. I pretty much stick to IRC now, else I get side tracked too easily and then I don't contribute on Omni enough. I'll try to check Zera link posted earlier too.

For now it seems like my internet is still here and I think Mic has stopped his legal stuff, according to a post on TI-BANK, and everyone there appears to have ended the discussion. I should be able to remain active on Omnimaga

Offline ztrumpet

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I'm glad to hear you're still here.  :D

DJ, I've talked to you for a half a year now, since two nights before you left TIBD.  You are an excellent person, yet you cannot control yourself when you get frustrated.  I know you know that, but it is important to use this knowledge to prevent future "pullings of DJs."  I do not know how to help you with this, but I will try my best.  You're too great a person to lose based on a rash decision.  Please stay around, as you are such a great asset to the community.  I am glad that you're still here, but I know you are concerned about "How long will I be around and on the internet."  Yesterday was another situation where you jeopardized this; Please stay around-I know you would be missed if you left.

No matter what, if you need to talk or anything you can post here and know there will be support.  You are held in such high regard by so many of us that your respect is almost 100.  That's over double the second highest respect, and proves how awesome you are.  Without you, Omnimaga wouldn't be as great.

I'm glad you're still here :) I'm glad you have apologized, and I hope everyone at TI Bank understands.  Like critor said, "Have courage, hang in there."  I'm sure you will eventually control your frustration, and you will feel better.

DJ, thanks for everything you've done for me and for the community.  I'm 100% sure that my calc-community experiences are better because of you.  Thank you.  :)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 09:02:07 pm by ztrumpet »

Offline Zera

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Saying you can do it is fine, but it doesn't mean it,s as easy for everyone. This is why now all I can do to prevent such issues is avoiding every other forum as much as possible.

It's not easy for anyone, but you have to start somewhere. It's like developing any other skill -- time and practice. Don't tell yourself that you can't control your emotions. Think about how you can develop this control, and start actively working toward it. Have patience, and don't punish yourself for your mistakes along the way. Learning is a messy process.

Here is a quote to consider: "I am formed by nature for my own good: I am not formed for my own evil."

I generally interpret this as meaning we should remain secure in the knowledge that we exist only to do good in this world, even if our words or actions are sometimes miscontrued. What other people think of you, your accomplishments, or your values is of absolutely no importance. We often seek some kind of validation, sanction or approval from other people by changing ourselves to appease their values. This is completely futile. There is no universal opinion of what good is -- there is only internal good. That is all that matters. If you are secure in what you are, what you feel and believe, and what you express, then external observations and judgments should not matter to you. If someone else doesn't like you, it's their problem to deal with -- not yours. You cannot change the limits of their perception. If they are negative, then they are negative by their choice alone. If you allow their negativity to cleave to you, then you are surrendering your own will to these emotions. This is where control is assumed. This is done through detachment from the things that normally disturb you. You said you avoid these situations rather than confront them. That is the general idea, but you shouldn't avoid the situation -- only the emotions that follow. Don't allow yourself to care about feelings that would only enslave you. What actual harm is done to you by placing yourself in the situation? None -- only the perception of harm that you conceive in your own mind. "Get rid of the judgment, get rid of the 'I am hurt,' you are rid of the hurt itself."

We are all our own worst enemies. The important thing to remember is that we are the sole owners of these bodies. We're the ones behind the wheel, and we can steer ourselves in whatever direction we please.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2010, 09:51:24 pm by Zera »

Offline DJ Omnimaga

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My issue, though, is that if my progress on controlling my emotions over the past 20 years has allowed me to be about 30% less worse, how long will it take me before succeeding it completly? Will I have to spend 60-70 years on this issue? Altough, thanks for the help, maybe it migth help me in the future about this

Offline Zera

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If you create the expectation to fail, then you'll only hinder your ability to advance in this life.

In logic, there is a fallacy called perfect solution. "The perfect solution fallacy is a logical fallacy that occurs when an argument assumes that a perfect solution exists and/or that a solution should be rejected because some part of the problem would still exist after it were implemented. This is a classic example of black and white thinking, in which a person fails to see the complex interplay between things, and as a result, reduces complex problems to a pair of binary extremes."

In other words, don't look at things in black-and-white extremes. Your experience may vary significantly from the expectations you've set. Are you wagering any losses? Not at all. Limiting yourself isn't going to spare you from anything; but you're creating the illusion that it is either hopeless, or will spare you from the disappointment of failure. This, in itself, is a concession to negative emotion.

Offline Madskillz

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Zera speaks a lot of truth and a lot of philosophy that I myself live by. Kevin you are extremely strong willed, you will go above and beyond on something that you believe in. Which is good because you eventually will over come this issue.

If you expect to fail...you will.

There are a lot of gray areas in everything, as Zera said you cant look at things as just black and white issues. It sounds like you are working to over come this problem and I truly wish you the best of luck my friend. I know you like music, creating it and listening to it. I do as well, most of you dont know this but I play guitar. What I found, and I know this is true for a lot of other people/musicians too is that music can really free you. It can help you think clearer and forget about everything and more often then not you can get some pretty cools sounds/songs from your emotions. I often turn to my guitar when I just get pissed off and it helps immensely. So what I suggest to you is this, when somebody ticks you off instead of spamming their boards and hurting your reputation...take a break, put on some music or make your own. Everybody has issues to deal with and its hard for everyone...but yet people still over come their issues and live healthy, productive, and often happier lives. You just gotta learn to let things go, and if you cant handle them in a mature manor. No psychiatrist, doctor or anyone else can "fix" you, its up to the individual to learn to handle these problems in a mature way.

We are all here to help, you got a great deal of support in this forum...and I'm always just a IM, email, PM away. Now lets put this behind us and move on to brighter greener fields.