Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calculators => Topic started by: TC01 on September 11, 2010, 07:43:40 pm
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By a shell, I mean program launcher, and not a kernel- and not this (http://hackaday.com/2010/08/23/indestructible-ti-89/).
I was talking to qazz42 on #cemetech (helping him with his new TI-89 Titanium) and he asked what shell I liked the best. Now, I don't use one at present, but I am fed up with VAR-LINK, and I was wondering what people who have an 89 think is the best one?
I personally think Einstein (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/404/40489.html) is cool (sort of like DoorsCS for the 89) except it's in French.
PCTools (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/405/40506.html) is also cool, but it's a kernel program. And it's quite possibly the only kernel program I've wanted to run thus far- which is why I use KerNO and not PreOS.
So, I would prefer to use a nostub shell- but if there's nothing very good I'll use a kernel one...
Titanium compatibility is a plus too. ;)
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Hmmm...
I have always been satisfed with the var-link menu, so I have never really looked into something like this.
Do you like the apps desktop? Here is something that allows you to add regular programs to that:
http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/284/28443.html
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Einstein just causes my calc to freeze on " Line 111 emmulator"
what do I do?
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Yeah, I like the Apps Desktop. Does ID work on a Titanium?
VAR-LINK is okay with KerNO installed because holding down the arrow keys move you up and down. But I hate the way it goes back to the top after doing any action (like moving, renaming, etc. a file).
Einstein just causes my calc to freeze on " Line 111 emmulator"
what do I do?
Don't use it- or, try running Ghostbuster on it. I thought it would work on a Titanium because it was released in 2007... but it's in French, so I never tried it out.
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bah, ok then
btw, I plan to install preOS later
I got super mario 68K working
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I personally just prefered to run all my ASM/C programs through VAR-LINK and home screen, no shell/kernel program.
Btw what's the difference between a shell and a kernel, in terms of calculators?
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I personally just prefered to run all my ASM/C programs through VAR-LINK and home screen, no shell/kernel program.
Btw what's the difference between a shell and a kernel, in terms of calculators?
On 68k calcs there are two different things- shells, and kernels. Well, and "KerNO"s, but there's only one of those.
A kernel extends the AMS allowing it to execute "kernel" programs- programs compiled to use the kernel libraries.
A shell is a file browser. Some shells are nostub, others require a kernel.
KerNO is like a kernel in that it extends the AMS, but does not provide crash protection.
On z80 calcs, shells and kernels seem to be the thing. Ion, MirageOS, DoorsCS, CrunchyOS, etc... all of these are (from a 68k perspective) kernels that contain a file browser.
The Ultimate FAQ (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~pad/faq/index.html) explains it pretty well (the 68k section (http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~pad/faq/ti89.html#7)) except it's a little out of date.
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Ah ok. Weird, I won't see much the purpose of Kernels, then, since every single game can be ran from the home screen by default (at least, on all ROMs I tried). Maybe I just used programs that uses no libraries from them, though.
As for 83+ Ion, Mirage, etc, are all called shells, for some reasons.
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I thought that KerNO and preOS had crash protection...
anywho, I decided to stick with preOS
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I think what had crash protection was something called Ghostbuster, but I'm not sure anymore. It has been a while since I last used my 89T
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:P it DOES have awsome games
preOS has in-built anti-crash stuff...
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I didn't say it didn't? That said, I did not play them as much, though, since I am a fan of RPGs and there aren't a lot for 68k :(
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If you download games from the "Assembly Games" section on ticalc.org, they will invariably work without a kernel (but some might require a library, like the FAT Engine). You need to go to Assembly Games\Kernel to get Kernel games.
Ghostbuster is a patcher, that patches programs to be more likely to be compatible with the Titanium. (More likely because it only fixes the most common issues). PreOS is a kernel with crash protection, KerNO is a TSR also with crash protection.
And yeah, unfortunately there aren't a lot of TI-89 RPGs... there is this unfinished RPG, turned RPG engine (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/426/42641.html), which looked interesting... if I ever actually make a game, I was considering giving it a try.
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I still want to know what "line 1111 emulator" meant...
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I still want to know what "line 1111 emulator" meant...
It's a common assembly error- I don't know what it actually means, though.
Unlike the TI-83+, where errors like this automatically clear RAM, the TI-89 preserves it's state and makes you do it manually.
One of the things KerNO does for you is intercepts these errors and prints them in a dialog box on the screen. (PreOS I think prints a "Crash intercepted" message to the status bar instead). But you should reset RAM afterwards, as your calc is probably in an unstable state.
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oh, and I assume that left right alpha on clears the ram?
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oh, and I assume that left right alpha on clears the ram?
It's 2ND, not ALPHA, but yes it does.
Anyway... back to the topic... no shell suggestions?
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I thought it was HW3Patch that fixed Titanium issues?
Anyway, Sorry, no shell suggestion from me, as I didn't knew shells existed for the 68k until this thread got started. :(
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My main “shell” that I've been using for the last several years is mainly just a combination of kbdprgms and a fairly simple TI-BASIC pop-up menu system that uses dialog boxes to configure the commands (TI-BASIC on the 68K has a function that can run strings containing TI-BASIC code in text form, which makes pure-BASIC shells on this platform a bit more useful than the ones on the Z80 calcs where the programs have to be manually edited). The drawback is that I have to add programs to the list manually, but I personally don't add new programs to my calc that often so it works fine for me.
If you don't mind using the Home Screen, another idea might be to use Complete (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/165/16568.html), which adds auto-completion with pop-up menus, which makes typing out commands and folder/program names less tedious.
I still want to know what "line 1111 emulator" meant...
It's a common assembly error- I don't know what it actually means, though.
I think it's named after the 68K opcodes that start with the bits 1111. I've read that these were designed to be opcodes for a math coprocessor, but the 68K had a feature where, if no coprocessor was installed, the opcodes could instead automatically call OS functions that emulated the coprocessor in software. AMS doesn't use them for this purpose, so I think its handler simply triggers this error when such an opcode executes. (Incidentally, TIGCC/GCC4TI has an option that allows programs to use these so-called “F-line emulator” opcodes as a way to call subroutines and ROM calls using very small code, but at a sacrifice of some speed.)
Command Post Plus (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/261/26119.html) also has crash protection/recovery, though it's actually intended to be a development tool (it has a hex editor and some nice features that occasionally come in handy for C/ASM development).
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KerNO has a crash protection indeed, but no advanced features such as PreOS has.
GhostBuster tries to patch a number of known instruction sequences that use the first ghost of the RAM (0x40000-0x7FFFF), which exists on HW1 and HW2 (89, 92+, V200) but not on HW3 & HW4 (89T).
HW2Patch and HW3Patch permanently nullify the RAM execution protection, which is required for programs that use direct execution in the base RAM. It's most useful on 89T.
Ghostbuster and HW3Patch are complementary for fixing older programs so that they work on the 89T.
A-Line ("Line 1010") and F-Line ("Line 1111") are instructions whose binary representation is 0xAnnn and 0xFnnn respectively. Motorola meant them as both provision for instruction set expansions (some of the later members of the 68k family use them) and as a way to call e.g. library or routines.
On the TI-68k, A-Line are used by AMS for throwing exceptions / errors. F-Line are unused from AMS 1.00 to 2.03 and create an error; from AMS 2.04 onwards, F800 + n calls ROM_CALL number n. Lately, other F-Line instructions were added to PreOS / PedroM (F-Line RAM_CALLs, etc.). On all AMS versions, Line 1010 or Line 1111 errors mean that the processor executed an A-Line or F-Line that was not caught by the error handlers, i.e. the calculator completely crashed (it started executing data or whatever).
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yeah, I tried some shells out
I recommend preOS :P
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Thanks Lionel for that information.
I use Command Post Plus and Super Start too, by the way (to the point that I can't remember to type closing parenthesis when I'm running something without it...). Complete sounds interesting as well.
With all those things, I could probably use the VAR-LINK menu without an additional shell except for my one remaining greivance- that whenever you perform an operation in it the cursor jumps back to the top of the menu. Could a TSR be written to at least make the cursor jump back to the current folder instead? Maybe I'll learn how to write a TSR...
And, if you are using PreOS, I think PCTools (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/405/40506.html) is a pretty good shell (and, it has an English version). I ran it in TiEmu, it worked fine (with Hw3 Patch). It is a kernel program, though.
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Some were released a month or two ago, but I don't know if they do that. It would be awesome if someone wrote one. I personally disliked that. ANother thing I dislike is how slow selecting stuff is. When holding down the down arrow, for example, it takes 2-3 seconds for quick key repeat to go under effect, versus 0.4 seconds on other calcs.
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DJ, I know, it does get rather annoying
I decided that I will use PCTools..
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Relating to scroll rate (and other things), there is AMS Extender (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/430/43017.html)
Maybe that has what you want?
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That prog might help me actually.
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KerNO also speeds up scroll rate (one reason why I like it), but if you're using a kernel that's obviously not an option. ;)
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Hmm, The preOS file browser is terrible, I prefer pcTOOLS browsers