Omnimaga

Calculator Community => Other Calculators => Topic started by: blue_bear_94 on February 22, 2013, 05:31:07 pm

Title: Join the protest!
Post by: blue_bear_94 on February 22, 2013, 05:31:07 pm
As you know, TI is keeping us from using any of their stuff (including the OSes!) on emulators not from TI. (http://ourl.ca/18393)
I'm planning to protest against this injustice at my school. You can do the same.
What do you think?
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 22, 2013, 06:07:13 pm
It would be nice, but sadly since there is only 1 person per school or less who actually even care about emulating their calc, this might be hard to attract people to the protests.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Scipi on February 22, 2013, 06:30:27 pm
Actually, there are a lot of teachers that make use of WabbitEmu.

My sister actually has to use it sometimes for her math course. The ban will likely affect them as well. So it would be feasible to get the teachers themselves involved. They've got the saying power anyways, since TI caters to them.

Also, DJ, your statement just reminded me of this :P

(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/10573921/Protests_by_Shadowfang3000.png)
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: epic7 on February 22, 2013, 09:23:25 pm
And if my friends don't care about this, I'll make them care about it :P/me runs
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Sorunome on February 23, 2013, 12:09:48 am
We could send ti emails complaining :P
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: _Nicco_ on February 23, 2013, 01:02:09 am
How can we protest?  What kind of stuff can we do?

EDIT: Maybe we can have a petition thing going on then once we get a lot of signatures we can send TI a letter in actual mail with all of the signatures of the people.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Ranman on February 23, 2013, 01:35:58 am
ZZZZzzzz...

You guys are really making this a bigger deal than it really is.

Ranman ducks for cover!
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 23, 2013, 04:15:52 am
Personally I would only protest if TI was to take action against 3rd-party emulation or if the 84+CSE was really slow to the point of hindering math students, not just coders, else we can't do much. Most students and teachers could care less about calculator game programmers. Of course, though, if TI really screws up bad in the same fashion as the RSA keys, by trying to take down emulators or some other third party tools, then it might work if anonymous or some other group gets involved. Two years ago, Z80man tried to convince his school to switch to the PRIZM, but teachers didn't want to learn a new calc. I still think the calc has potential for ASM coders and to a lesser extent TI-BASIC, just not as many kind of games (especially vertical scrollers). Also this might make more BASIC coders try harder to code properly. I still see too many TI-84+ BASIC games that runs at 83+ speed because the author didn't bother optimizing them.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: shmibs on February 23, 2013, 05:40:45 am
/me agrees with ranman
it's a EULA, which means it probably wouldn't hold up in court, as there is no way to prove that you actually read and accepted the terms when acquiring the os (you may have gotten it from the calculator of a friend who downloaded it, for example, which is a possibility enabled by TI themselves with the "send OS" option). furthermore, it would only potentially affect users, as nothing at all can be said against people producing third-party emulators without a shred of code from any TI product in them. lastly, this is all assuming that they would bother paying attention and taking action against single users in the first place, which is highly unlikely.

EDIT: all that being said, the 84+SE C is a huge disappointment, and is practically the best possible move TI could have made if their intention was to dismantle the community (or the part of it focussed on the z80 series, at least).
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Keoni29 on February 23, 2013, 06:28:51 am
Nobody other than we read the terms and agreements anyways, so I don't think anything will change :P
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Lionel Debroux on February 23, 2013, 06:53:53 am
I think that pretty much everybody agrees with the fact that the practical importance of that silly move by TI is low; but the principle of attempting to restrict our freedom is loathsome in itself, and we need to fight back vigorously. One of the ways to fight back is to spread out the word :)

Who knows whether this silly license change is not the first step of a carefully planned path backwards (for us) ? If we accept the unacceptable, they'll be all the more tempted to execute the next steps...
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Stefan Bauwens on February 23, 2013, 06:59:49 am
ZZZZzzzz...

You guys are really making this a bigger deal than it really is.

Ranman ducks for cover!
True.
Quote from: from ti
By downloading the application you indicate your agreement with the terms and conditions of the License.
I assume that by now all those applications have been already downloaded before that new license was there. So, if you download it from somewhere else you shouldn't have a problem(I assume).
Also, I'm pretty sure at least someone has all the OS's downloaded. I don't think it's a problem to share them with people, who definitely own the calc.

But to be honest, if you use an emulator, all you'll really need is community apps, and your own calc's ROM which you dumped yourself.
So no problem. :D
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: blue_bear_94 on February 23, 2013, 08:33:49 am
But wouldn't the ROM include TI's OS?
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Stefan Bauwens on February 23, 2013, 10:23:18 am
Yes, but if you didn't agree to that licence, since you owned that OS before that new licence came out, I don't see a direct problem.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: flyingfisch on February 23, 2013, 10:35:35 am
My cousin's school has switched completely to casio because of the pricing... so that's a start. :)
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 23, 2013, 10:37:09 am
Are you saying the school has it's own Casio calculators, or that is what the school recommends?
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: flyingfisch on February 23, 2013, 10:55:15 am
Are you saying the school has it's own Casio calculators, or that is what the school recommends?


both
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: TIfanx1999 on February 23, 2013, 10:55:48 am
Ah, I see. That's pretty nice. :)
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: flyingfisch on February 23, 2013, 11:25:48 am
Ah, I see. That's pretty nice. :)

Indeed. :)
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: blue_bear_94 on February 23, 2013, 11:27:21 am
I wish my school were like that.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: flyingfisch on February 23, 2013, 11:31:08 am
I wish my school were like that.

all the more reason to protest ;)
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 23, 2013, 06:18:27 pm
The only reason I would see a school legitimately avoid the PRIZM is if math classes make students write programs with drawing commands and that the slow commands turned them off. I mean, even though the calc runs at 58 MHz, it takes several seconds to generate this screen:

(http://img.removedfromgame.com/imgs/prizmsnake.gif)
Now compare with the 84+CSE
(http://www.cemetech.net/img/news/84pcse_review7.gif)

The PRIZM screenshot runs slightly faster than the real calc and the 84+CSE one runs about 25-30% slower.

ASM, on the other hand, is much faster.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: blue_bear_94 on February 23, 2013, 07:10:47 pm
Wait, by legitimately, do you mean that it was forced to use TI calcs doesn't count?
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 23, 2013, 08:57:01 pm
Could you rephrase your question? I don't understand what you mean.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: blue_bear_94 on February 23, 2013, 09:05:36 pm
Wait, by legitimately, do you mean (that it was forced to use TI calcs) doesn't count?
I meant to ask whether if a school was forced to use TI calcs, it would or wouldn't count as legitimate.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 23, 2013, 09:48:41 pm
Nah, by legitimately I mean that a school would refuse to use a calc model from their own will. For example, if a school decided to refuse to use the PRIZM due to brutal drawing speed hindering the calc use for math, then it would be a legit reason.

However, if a school decided to refuse to use the PRIZM in exchange of a bribe (pot-de-vin) from TI, then it wouldn't be a legitimate reason.

Some people suspected that TI did that in the past in order to retain their monopoly, but apparently it isn't the case and schools just didn't want to have to learn a new calc due to having used the 82 series for over a decade or due to having gotten hot deals from TI when buying calcs in bulk.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: blue_bear_94 on February 24, 2013, 08:55:10 am
Or maybe the school might want to use TIs because of the extra cost and difficulty of switching.
Title: Re: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 24, 2013, 02:37:18 pm
Plus some students borrow their sis/bro's TI calc and might not want to buy a new model
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Sorunome on February 24, 2013, 04:01:29 pm
My school in germany used to have casio calcs, we switched at some point because the TI 'was better', as in, was better in math.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: blue_bear_94 on February 24, 2013, 04:59:08 pm
Are the math features of TI calcs really better than those of Casio calcs?
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Sorunome on February 24, 2013, 05:00:54 pm
Of the casio calc our school had, idk which one, it is a green-white one.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: flyingfisch on February 24, 2013, 06:12:28 pm
Of the casio calc our school had, idk which one, it is a green-white one.

Probably AFX... cool!
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 24, 2013, 06:20:46 pm
I think khaki calcs were only in France, otherwise the only green-white calc was the FX-9750G or FX-9750GII.

As for math features I often heard that TI had more of them, but I'm not sure if it's true. I know that the AFX was pretty rich in features, though. Didn't it also have a CAS?
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: flyingfisch on February 24, 2013, 06:34:52 pm
I think khaki calcs were only in France, otherwise the only green-white calc was the FX-9750G or FX-9750GII.

As for math features I often heard that TI had more of them, but I'm not sure if it's true. I know that the AFX was pretty rich in features, though. Didn't it also have a CAS?

It had a cas, yes.

Also:

(http://edu.casio.com/products/graphic/afx20p/images/closeup_afx20p.jpg)

I thought it had white on it, maybe not.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on February 24, 2013, 06:44:30 pm
In France, it looked like this:

(http://www.jeuxcasio.com/modules/ChoixCasio/images/graph100.jpg)

Due to how they looked like, those calcs were the laughing stock of the French TI community.

I myself have the FX 1.0 PLUS, so I don't know if AFX games work on it. I don't know how to send files to it anyway.
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: Sorunome on February 24, 2013, 07:54:25 pm
I think khaki calcs were only in France, otherwise the only green-white calc was the FX-9750G or FX-9750GII.

As for math features I often heard that TI had more of them, but I'm not sure if it's true. I know that the AFX was pretty rich in features, though. Didn't it also have a CAS?
oh, yeah, it looks like that (no cas), when my brother got it it was the G and when my other brother got it they updated to GII
Title: Re: Join the protest!
Post by: flyingfisch on February 24, 2013, 08:50:21 pm
I think khaki calcs were only in France, otherwise the only green-white calc was the FX-9750G or FX-9750GII.

As for math features I often heard that TI had more of them, but I'm not sure if it's true. I know that the AFX was pretty rich in features, though. Didn't it also have a CAS?
oh, yeah, it looks like that (no cas), when my brother got it it was the G and when my other brother got it they updated to GII

Then it was an fx9860G. ;)