Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calculators => Topic started by: Mighty Moose on October 08, 2010, 10:43:42 pm
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I recently acquired a very ancient TI-84+SE calculator with OS 2.21 still installed. Is there any way I can get the OS from calculator to computer?
Thx.
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Mhmm I'M not sure if this is possible. You might want to check if TI-Connect got such option, or maybe check TiLP (make sure only one is installed at once)
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TILP should be able to perform ROM dumps, indeed.
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I think he wants to copy the OS to his computer, though, not a ROM.
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Yeah, I don't think any existing software can do this. To briefly outline the procedure, you'll need an ASM program that dumps each page of the OS into a 16KB appvar. Then those appvars need to be sent to a computer, and a program assembles them into a .8xk.
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How do you use the OS afterward, though? Do you just run the app and it overwrites the OS sectors?
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hm? The computer program would generate a .8xk, just like TI's official ones.
The theoretical on-calc program just reads the OS; it doesn't change it :P
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hm? The computer program would generate a .8xk, just like TI's official ones.
The theoretical on-calc program just reads the OS; it doesn't change it :P
I think you mean .8xu. .8xk is app format, .8xu is flash OS format.
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Oh, definitely. My mistake. 8xu it is.
* calcdude shouldn't have made such a silly mistake. :P
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Yeah that's why I was confused, as I thought the file would have to be a 8xu file.
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What calcdude84se is describing is a ROM dumper (albeit somewhat harder to use than your typical ROM dumper.) The OS is part of "ROM", you know. :)
Presumably the question is how to convert a binary ROM image into an 8xu file that you could install on another calculator, and the answer is, as far as I know there isn't any program to do that. But it wouldn't be difficult to write.
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Ah right, the ROM contains the OS. From what I recall, Critor had a ROM to OS converter, as he took a Flash Debugger TI-73 ROM file (clc I think) and converted it to an OS. I then installed it on a real TI-73 to see if it worked. It was a rare OS too, from what I remember.
I'll go check TI-BANK website later to see if it was hosted there.
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Here's a program that should work to convert an 83+/84+ ROM image to an 8xu file. It doesn't sign the OS or even check that the signature is valid; garbage in, garbage out.
Funny story: the first real ROM image I found to test this on was a dump of a TI-83+ running OS 1.12. So I ran the program and compared the results against os112.8xu. I was expecting to see a few differences between the two files (the date stamp is different, and TI's older OS files don't have the version number in the header.) But as it happened, the two files matched even more exactly than I had hoped... because it turns out OS 1.12 was originally released on October 11, 1999.
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Wow... 1.12, that brings back some memories. This is what my TI-83 Plus came with when I bought it in July 2001, same for my bro's calc. Is it me or was that OS slightly faster than newer ones?
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I got TI-OS 2.21 on my good old "Ti Graphing Product CD v 1.1" that came with my TI-84, maybe you do too.
It's near impossible to find it on the internet I think. The closest thing I found was the less buggy TI-OS 2.22
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Build8xu from os2tools can do it. If you get me a ROM file, I can get you an OS file.
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Wow nice. I only really saw 2.22 much so far, as well as 2.41 and 2.43. THere was also 0.41 beta or something. One other rare OS was 1.17, but it's for the 83+/83+SE. It never got released on TI site, I think, just on some calcs.
My TI CD has OS 1.13 on it, I believe. I don't remember what TI-73, TI-89 and 92 OS it has, though. I got TI-CD version 2.1 from March 2001.
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I recently acquired a very ancient TI-84+SE calculator with OS 2.21 still installed. Is there any way I can get the OS from calculator to computer?
Thx.
Some months ago, I got a TI-73 ROM file with OS 1.50.
I wanted to generate a 73u update file from it, and that's why I've developped the following tool:
http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=archives&ac=voir&id=1641
I haven't used it for months, but if I remember well:
- you give it a z80 ROM file (TI-73, TI-83+, TI-83+SE, TI-84+, TI-84+SE, or TI-84+Nspire)
- you then get an unsigned OS update file (73u or 8xu)
You then need to correctly sign the OS update file using rabbitsign or something like that with the correct key (not included)
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Didn't you grab 1.50 from TI-Flash Debugger ROM then use that tool to convert it to an OS file? You had me testing it on my TI-73 a while ago. I think my calc still have it installed.
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Didn't you grab 1.50 from TI-Flash Debugger ROM then use that tool to convert it to an OS file? You had me testing it on my TI-73 a while ago. I think my calc still have it installed.
Exactly.
By the way, my tool is command-line only.
It "could" be usefull for other things, like generating an OS update file from a basic TI-83 ROM.
(think to all the tricks you could play to your friends... :p )
Source code is included.
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Do you mean like running a TI-83 on a TI-83+? ;D
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Do you mean like running a TI-83 on a TI-83+? ;D
Yes.
Although the OS would probably need some patches...
But with that tool, you can generate an update file from a basic TI-83 ROM, and then sign it for a TI-73/83+/84+.
Have fun exploring all those new possibilites! ^^
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Yeah, I guess you could. It would take some effort to get the OS to run properly on an 83+, but it could be done. (Of course, some assembly programs wouldn't work properly, but many of them probably would.)
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I remember back in the days MirageOS had TI-82 emulation, but I wonder if anyone ever got it to work and how did we convert 82 files...
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Yeah, I guess you could. It would take some effort to get the OS to run properly on an 83+, but it could be done. (Of course, some assembly programs wouldn't work properly, but many of them probably would.)
In theory, what would have to be changed in order to make a TI-83 OS run on a TI-83+ hardware/emulator?
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I wonder if that might contain a bit of info? http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/369/36923.html
From what I can guess, some memory addresses are just different between OSes.
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It's true that memory addresses are different, but that's not the issue here, since we're talking about replacing the entire OS.
The most significant change between the 83 and 83+ is how the memory mapping is controlled. The 83's hardware is based on the 82's, so it has a single port (port 2) that controls both the "bank A" and "bank B" memory mapping. But since that only allows for 8 ROM pages, port 0 is used to switch between the lower and upper 128k of ROM. In contrast, the 83+ has two separate ports (6 and 7) that independently control the mapping for banks A and B, and allow you to access all 32 pages of Flash. So all of the code dealing with port 2 would need to be revised to use port 6 and/or 7. (There actually isn't very much code you'd need to change.)
Second, the link port works differently; both models use port 0 to read and write the link port, but different input and output values are used.
Third, where the 83 reads port 3 to check the status of the ON key and interrupts, on the 83+ you need to use port 4 instead. I think the bits are the same, and writing to port 3 works the same way (writing to port 4 does something completely unrelated.)
Fourth, the 83+ prevents execution on RAM page zero by default; you'd probably want to turn this protection off in order to run TI-83 assembly programs. On an 83+ SE or 84+, this protection can't be disabled, but you could use RAM page 3 instead.
And finally, you'd need to make some small tweaks just to get the OS to boot, since 83+ OSes must contain a magic number at 0056h, and the boot code hands control to the OS at address 0053h.
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Very interesting FloppusMaximus.
Let me tell you what I have in mind.
You know that Brandon has developped a way to install a TI-83+ OS on a TI-73.
In France, we don't have the TI-73, but we have cheap calculators that aren't available in North-America: the TI-82Stats.fr and the TI-76.fr.
They are running special french-translated TI-83 compatible OSes (TI-Connect does detect them as TI-83, and TI-83 assembly programs can be run without any problem).
The TI-82Stats.fr has got the 1.11fr7 ROM version.
The TI-76.fr has got the 1.00fr5 ROM version.
But although the OS is TI-83 compatible, the motherboard is very similar to the latest TI-83+ motherboards.
And although a dump file is only 256Kb large, the calculator does include a 512kb Flash-ROM.
It would be very interesting if we could find some way to flash a (patched) TI-83+ OS in those Flash-ROM.
Unfortunately, DEL+ON doesn't seem to trigger any boot code menu.
And I cannot check if the boot code is there, because it is supposed to be at the end of the 512Kb ROM.
And using TI-83 assembly code, I cannot check anything beyond the 1st 256Kb of the ROM.
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That's very interesting. I wonder if the Flash chip is actually upgradeable. Going by this image (http://datamath.org/Graphing/Images/TI-82STATS_FR_PCB.jpg) from Datamath, it looks like the write-enable pin (pin 11) is in fact connected to the ASIC, so it's possible. But it's hard to imagine that they would have put user-upgradeable Flash in a calculator without including an 83+-style boot code.
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That's very interesting. I wonder if the Flash chip is actually upgradeable. Going by this image (http://datamath.org/Graphing/Images/TI-82STATS_FR_PCB.jpg) from Datamath, it looks like the write-enable pin (pin 11) is in fact connected to the ASIC, so it's possible. But it's hard to imagine that they would have put user-upgradeable Flash in a calculator without including an 83+-style boot code.
Seems the A17 Flash-ROM pin is not connected.
So without a hardware modification, the ASIC (which is the same as on the TI-73/83+: a TI-REF/TI-738X) cannot read/write anything in ROM beyond 0x3FFFFh.
So, if there is some boot code, the ASIC cannot access it.
So I'm wondering...
When there is a power-loss on a TI673/83+/84+, is the boot code executed before the OS?
How does the ASIC know where to look for the boot code?
Is it the boot code which checks for the "DEL" key being pressed?
Thanks.
Today, I've looked into the ASIC-Flash connections on the TI-82Stats.fr.
(probably identic to the TI-76.fr)
Here is what I have figured out:
In black, unused pins.
In white, grounded pins.
Connected pins are in the same color.
(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/13/23/13/53/82stat10.jpg)(http://i63.servimg.com/u/f63/13/23/13/53/82stat10.gif)
I've managed to un-ground the A17 Flash pin, and connect it to the ASIC pin between RESET# and A7. (don't know if it is the right one)
Anyway, I didn't manage to trigger a boot code after that using the DEL key.
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This also means the OS would not be upgradeable, right?
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This also means the OS would not be upgradeable, right?
Why?...
Physically, it can be upgraded, by pluging the Flash-chip in an EPROM programmer.
But the probability I just break the calculator doing something like that is over 99%.
I'm looking for a simpler way, a 100% software-way, or a way which would only require some minor hardware modifications.
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Oh, from what I read in your post, it seemed like we wouldn't be able to upgrade the TI-83 ROM to a TI-83+ OS, as you mentionned some flash pages were not accessible. Of course maybe it would be possible with modifications, but I specifically meant for people who don't want to modify their hardware. I migth have misunderstood you, though, but I know nothing about hardware.
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Oh, from what I read in your post, it seemed like we wouldn't be able to upgrade the TI-83 ROM to a TI-83+ OS, as you mentionned some flash pages were not accessible. Of course maybe it would be possible with modifications, but I specifically meant for people who don't want to modify their hardware. I migth have misunderstood you, though, but I know nothing about hardware.
Don't worry. I may not have found the best words to explain things.
Well, I hope we can find a way with only small hardware modifications.
(like disconnecting a pin, and connecting 2 pins...)
Anyway, I've started my own topic and given all my informations again.
It was a little off-topic here, sorry about that.
http://ourl.ca/7922
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Now if only it was as easy as on some Casio calcs, where you just black out something on the motherboard and your calc becomes a new one... (as described on Casio-BANK) ;D
(For those who understand french and are curious, this is what I mean, but the link is currently not working because Free.fr hosting provider is terrible: http://casio.bank.free.fr/modules/archives/downloads/C2Dupgrade.pdf )
Personally I'm not too good with my hands so I would be a bit scared of modifying my calcs or stuff like that, even small stuff. :(
(EDIT: Link works now, but I get a download speed of 23.7 KB/sec on my 30 megabits connection)
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Now if only it was as easy as on some Casio calcs, where you just black out something on the motherboard and your calc becomes a new one... (as described on Casio-BANK) ;D
(For those who understand french and are curious, this is what I mean, but the link is currently not working because Free.fr hosting provider is terrible: http://casio.bank.free.fr/modules/archives/downloads/C2Dupgrade.pdf )
Yes, it would be great if I could make such a "simple" tutorial to upgrade the TI-82Stats.fr and TI-76.fr.
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Indeed. If you succeed you should write one. :)
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Epic necropost ftw! j/k
Naw, I just wanted to say thank you to all as I did get this figured out (I found a copy of OS 2.21 lying around somewhere... :o).
New question on a related note: How do I dump the Nspire versions of the 84+ OS from an Nspire ROM/OS? (I have very little/limited access to a real Nspire...).
Thx in advance
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Didn't you grab 1.50 from TI-Flash Debugger ROM then use that tool to convert it to an OS file? You had me testing it on my TI-73 a while ago. I think my calc still have it installed.
Exactly.
By the way, my tool is command-line only.
It "could" be usefull for other things, like generating an OS update file from a basic TI-83 ROM.
(think to all the tricks you could play to your friends... :p )
Source code is included.
does this mean programs and apps can be [auto-]installed when the os is sent and validated?
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Epic necropost ftw! j/k
Naw, I just wanted to say thank you to all as I did get this figured out (I found a copy of OS 2.21 lying around somewhere... :o).
New question on a related note: How do I dump the Nspire versions of the 84+ OS from an Nspire ROM/OS? (I have very little/limited access to a real Nspire...).
Thx in advance
I'm not sure exactly how, but the Nspire OS's are some sort of archive, which can be opened with 7-Zip etc. Inside said OS is a file named TI-Nspire.img, which can also be opened with 7-Zip etc. In TI-Nspire.img is a folder named ti84, in which there are a bunch of files with names like "84rom15.bin". I have no idea how they are formatted, just that their names are suspicious ;D.
does this mean programs and apps can be [auto-]installed when the os is sent and validated?
I think critor was talking about the 83, but anyway:
Only reliably for a TI-83+, because the OS format only allows $20 pages, which is how many the 83+ has. For the 83+, programs and appvars are a definite "yes", while apps are more unlikely, given that their installation requires changes to the certificate.