Omnimaga

Calculator Community => Other Calculators => Topic started by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 05:29:37 pm

Title: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 05:29:37 pm
This will likely offend you, KermM, although I have been careful to avoid that.  Read it with caution.  I also ask that no one with the power to do so edits, locks, or deletes this post.  You may not like what I have to say, but at least let me say it, and let others respond freely.
I feel like there needs to be a change on Cemetech.  It's a great board, don't get me wrong, with lots of skilled programmers.  It hosts one of the best shells ever, DCS7.  I really appriciate all of the help that myself and others have gotten from here. 

However, I feel like there are some obvious problems that have been occuring.  I do not mean to offend, but merely to be heard.
1) The anti-Omnimaga "vibe"
I feel like, although no one admits to it or talks about it, many of the people here give off an air of dislike, or even a hatred.  There is nothing wrong with Omnimaga.  It is the most active calculator board out there.  It is the home to 17+ active projects.  Yet people still look down on Omnimaga as if Cemetech is better.  I've heard the term Omninoobs more times than I can count from here.  Omni doesn't bash Cemetech.  We post news about a lot of Cemetech related things.  A lot of people who host projects on Omnimaga cross-post with Cemetech.  I've never seen KermM cross-post a DCS7 update with Omnimaga until it was completely done.  Can we try to bring the community together, instead of tear it in two?  We have a hard enough time fighting TI without our little internal conflicts.
2) Censorship
I don't think it's a coincidence that every time I have mentioned Omnimaga in a post, that it is removed.  I have been told plenty of times that it wasn't simply an anti-Omnimaga guesture, but I simply don't believe it.  Those posts haven't been spamming Omnimaga, either.  For example, Omnimaga offers file attachments to posts, so when I'm cross-posting, I will usually provide a link to the file on Omnimaga.  I provided one such link, and it was changed to serve the same purpose, but without the text "omnimaga" visible.  The most blatant abuse of censorship power is a rant I posted, in the rant board that edited out the entire rant, to the point where no one could possibly guess the contents of the topic from the title.  I fully appriciate the power an admin holds to edit posts.  However, history has shown that those with power abuse it the most.  Spam is one thing, but editing out an honest opinion because you disagree with it is wrong.
3) Encouragement
A lot of people on Cemetech are very encouraging of projects.  However, others are not.  And the admins don't do anything about it.  I think it's best to encourage more cool things for calcs, not to discourage things.  If someone is struggling with something, like I am with raw flash control, it is not time to discourage them and tell them they can't do it.  It's a good time to help them achieve their goals.  Would a school administrator stand by a coach telling a player how much they suck, without even a word?

I will not apologize for my opinion, but I do not fault anyone for disagreeing with it.  I'm not saying that Omnimaga is perfect, either.  In fact, both boards are far from perfect.  I'm simply stating my opinion, and I hope to make the community better in the process.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Munchor on November 09, 2010, 05:35:44 pm
'Omninoobs'? 'Omnoobs' would be better, people can't even insult us the good way.

I'm not even registered in Cemetech because their logo doesn't appeal me and when I go there, I leave quickly, maybe the way it is organized, the colours. I have no doubts on it being a great board with DoorsCS7 (which I use ;)) and SourceCoder (which I use) and a Final Fantasy RPG.

Also, we are both 'fighting' TI, so we shoudln't be fighting each other.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: yunhua98 on November 09, 2010, 05:37:23 pm
rated up.  I do not have an account on Cemetech, but I do lurk there very often.  I have noticed a couple people trolling and discouraging others.  In fact, a couple of days ago, Ranman was asking if one of his posts were to long, because a member had said "tl:dr" to one of his posts that were menat to help others, he was not forcing anyone to read it.  Another example is how Sir was discouraged from screating KOS.  I feel that Cemetech is a great and active board, but I beleive there is a lack of "friendship and encouragement" that exists between Omnimembers.

also, the above is NOT the reason I have not joined Cemetech, I doubt it will bother me that much, it is mainly because I lack hardware and ASM knowledge, so I generally cannot follow the discussion there.  ;)
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Netham45 on November 09, 2010, 05:40:36 pm
I respect Cemetech for it's knowledge, they have some of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to hardware and  concepts in the community, but a fair deal of their morals and ideas are just not what the community needs.

The constant trolling and complete and utter lack of administrative intervention is an issue. I don't care if it stays over at Cemetech, but when you start bringing other sites and other people into it, it becomes an issue to me, and needs to stop.

I'd also like to add KermM spamming invites to Cemetech to Omnimaga members both over IRC and through the PM system. I believe that this has stopped, but the community feud that that was fueling is ridiculous. Site affiliation is one thing, but secretly using another board for spamming and plugging your site is completely inappropriate, and will do nothing but further sever the community. Continually bashing the administrators of other sites behind their backs isn't going to help anyone either.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: nemo on November 09, 2010, 05:47:06 pm
nothing against you sir, and i think i agree with part of the things you say (the other i can't make a judgement on, since i don't visit cemetech very often), but i really think our current problem is stirring up unnecessary drama. so someone calls us Omninoobs. or someone discouraged your project. my question is: why does that matter? if someone is bringing you down on a forum, no one is forcing you to remain a member. again, nothing against you sir, but i think posts like these, by specifically targeting another forum's bad qualities, is what would potentially bring the community apart. i know you're trying to do a good thing, but i think that a simple PM to Kerm or another Cemetech admin about this would bring it to their private, sole attention to be either dealt with or ignored. and if it's ignored, like i said, you aren't forced to be a part of a forum. to reiterate: just my opinion on this.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 05:48:04 pm
That is a valid point.  But the problem is re-occurrence.  It happens all the time.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Xeda112358 on November 09, 2010, 05:50:25 pm
Jeez, this is messed up. We all program for free, we devote our time and energy and thought to a project that is much larger than any site on calculator programming that exists. Why are there programmers out there that would act that way. In order to further the development of programming skills and ability, we need to collaborate. This is ridiculous and it is not called for. I have only checked out the site a few times (back when I was a BASIC programmer) and I know there is intelligence there, so is it all devoted to the programming and none to humanity?
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Munchor on November 09, 2010, 05:51:05 pm
Jeez, this is messed up. We all program for free, we devote our time and energy and thought to a project that is much larger than any site on calculator programming that exists. Why are there programmers out there that would act that way. In order to further the development of programming skills and ability, we need to collaborate. This is ridiculous and it is not called for. I have only checked out the site a few times (back when I was a BASIC programmer) and I know there is intelligence there, so is it all devoted to the programming and none to humanity?

Affirmative, totally agree with the first sentece, very correct, indeed!
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Netham45 on November 09, 2010, 05:51:17 pm
We're not trying to say Cemetech sucks, we're just saying that we don't appreciate them saying that we suck so often.

-snip-
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 05:52:19 pm
Like I said, we have a hard enough time fighting TI without our little internal conflicts.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Xeda112358 on November 09, 2010, 05:54:42 pm
That is a valid point.  But the problem is re-occurrence.  It happens all the time.

And I do not like the sound of censorship. Anybody else? That is not something I agree with, so I am glad we know some of the possible obstacles in our way. We need to collaborate and combine our knowledge and we need to know what can disrupt that path. I am very glad this topic was added and I plan to join Cemtech soon.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Netham45 on November 09, 2010, 05:56:01 pm

And I do not like the sound of censorship. Anybody else? That is not something I agree with, so I am glad we know some of the possible obstacles in our way. We need to collaborate and combine our knowledge and we need to know what can disrupt that path. I am very glad this topic was added and I plan to join Cemtech soon.

I fail to see how censorship fits in.

Although, I do agree in collaboration being the best for the community.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2010, 05:56:45 pm
Personally, I rated down the post, because I and others have brought up problems from other sites on here or vice-versa in the past, and it only caused more problems than it should. Such matter should be discussed with the admin concerned, or the admin should discuss them with you, like I do everytime there is an issue between an Omni member and myself/my site.

I disagree that the rant should have been deleted, I think it would be fine since it would clarify things, but it is Kerm's website: He has the right to decide what is allowed and what's not, and you can do nothing about it. The only thing you can do is if something wrong occurs on Omnimaga directly. It's like if someone complains that we're too strict on rude comments: Omnimaga is our site and we reserve the right to punish people who are unnecessarly rude to others. Cemetech is not Omnimaga and Omnimaga is not Cemetech. It's Kerm decision run run Cemetech how he does. I tried convincing every admin of other sites to disallow rude comments before and it gave me a bad reputation for a while, because they are not my site and admins there can run them how they want.

That said, I do not know what happens behind the scenes and I effectively saw words "omnidrama" or "omninoobs" before, but we can do nothing about it. If people notice bad things said against Omnimaga, it's up to them to decide if they mind it or not and if they want to stay or leave. If you have suggestions to improve Cemetech, you should post them in his website sub-forum. If they get censored, then at least you will have tried to post them at the right place.

I'm leaving this topic intact and open, but if it turns into an Cemetech bashing thread or an inter community dispute, I will lock it and take the usual action against those who participated. Let's learn from the community past mistakes that nearly caused its death, shall we?
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Xeda112358 on November 09, 2010, 05:57:17 pm
We're not trying to say Cemetech sucks, we're just saying that we don't appreciate them saying that we suck so often. Even KermM bitches and whines about how he thinks Omnimaga sucks.

Also, PMing their admins wouldn't resolve anything, you'd be promptly ignored.
Now is not the time to get angry. Now is the time to use our brains and resolve conflict. I am disappointed and a little irritated as well, but we will need to be calm in order to look at what is happening through a lens as unbiased as possible.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: adamac16 on November 09, 2010, 05:58:51 pm
Can't we all just get along?
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 05:59:17 pm
I agree that KermM can run his site how he wants, but I still reserve the right to make my opinion known about it.

If you have suggestions to improve Cemetech, you should post them in his website sub-forum.
I did.  The only reason it is posted here is in case it is censored or deleted.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: AngelFish on November 09, 2010, 05:59:24 pm
Like I said, we have a hard enough time fighting TI without our little internal conflicts.

The only real fight with TI is on the Nspire. TI already knows that the community has broken the 83+ series and they've pretty much given up on it.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 06:01:12 pm
Can't we all just get along?
You cannot fully comprehend how much I wish it was so.
The only real fight with TI is on the Nspire. TI already knows that the community has broken the 83+ series and they've pretty much given up on it.
Be that as it may, if they have already lost, then why do they insist on holding onto vital documentation?
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Ranman on November 09, 2010, 06:04:41 pm
I've been a member of Omnimaga for over 5 years now. I have seen the things that SirCmpwn is talking about from time to time -- although not specific to Cemetech.

I think Omnimaga is a great place for "noobs' to learn and get to know the community. I would not consider myself a noob. In fact, I'm probably too old to be a member here... but I still am... and I enjoy it!
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2010, 06:05:08 pm
You did? Well that's good then. (And I just saw now as I post this: http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=122079#122079 )

And yeah I agree that people can say their opinion. Keep in mind that on Omnimaga, people need to say their opinion with respect, though, which is why I will be watching this topic from time to time. That applies to any situation, be it project comments, help, site talk and randomness.
Can't we all just get along?
this.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: adamac16 on November 09, 2010, 06:07:20 pm
im just saying im a member of both websites and i see nothing wrong with either of them.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Netham45 on November 09, 2010, 06:08:18 pm
I do agree that we need to make sure that we keep a civil tone when talking to other people. It'll only agitate the community more if we start lashing out.

On that note, I retract my last post.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: AngelFish on November 09, 2010, 06:08:49 pm
The only real fight with TI is on the Nspire. TI already knows that the community has broken the 83+ series and they've pretty much given up on it.
Be that as it may, if they have already lost, then why do they insist on holding onto vital documentation?

Because they're in denial. But what documentation are they holding on to? We already know the drivers, the processor, the code for the OS, and pretty much everything else I can think of.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 06:09:33 pm
Arguably the most vital documentation to the whole 3rd party OS scene - the USB protocol.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: MRide on November 09, 2010, 06:14:56 pm
I don't really visit Cemetech very often, but I from my experience it is a good site.  I completely believe Sir, and wonder why the posts were deleted.  However, I respect Kerm's authority (and DJ's) to run their sites how they want to.  We all belong to a very similar, if not identical sect in society.  It's not like we're competing or anything (at least not to my knowledge).  We should all just work together and get along, with no bashing from anybody.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: AngelFish on November 09, 2010, 06:15:01 pm
Oh, that might be useful...

Doesn't the OS contain information on those protocols though? Brandonw posted the decompiled OS a while back.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: JonimusPrime on November 09, 2010, 06:16:07 pm
Personally, I rated down the post, because I and others have brought up problems from other sites on here or vice-versa in the past, and it only caused more problems than it should. Such matter should be discussed with the admin concerned, or the admin should discuss them with you, like I do everytime there is an issue between an Omni member and myself/my site.

I disagree that the rant should have been deleted, I think it would be fine since it would clarify things, but it is Kerm's website: He has the right to decide what is allowed and what's not, and you can do nothing about it. The only thing you can do is if something wrong occurs on Omnimaga directly. It's like if someone complains that we're too strict on rude comments: Omnimaga is our site and we reserve the right to punish people who are unnecessarly rude to others. Cemetech is not Omnimaga and Omnimaga is not Cemetech. It's Kerm decision run run Cemetech how he does. I tried convincing every admin of other sites to disallow rude comments before and it gave me a bad reputation for a while, because they are not my site and admins there can run them how they want.

That said, I do not know what happens behind the scenes and I effectively saw words "omnidrama" or "omninoobs" before, but we can do nothing about it. If people notice bad things said against Omnimaga, it's up to them to decide if they mind it or not and if they want to stay or leave. If you have suggestions to improve Cemetech, you should post them in his website sub-forum. If they get censored, then at least you will have tried to post them at the right place.

I'm leaving this topic intact and open, but if it turns into an Cemetech bashing thread or an inter community dispute, I will lock it and take the usual action against those who participated. Let's learn from the community past mistakes that nearly caused its death, shall we?
I made a more lengthy response on Cemetech but I feel DJ has summed up exactly what I was thinking. The only issue I have seen people on Cemetech have with Omnimaga is the drama that seems to stem from it, whether that opinion is justified or not. IMO there are other things that usually cause the drama in the community and it is a shame the Omnimaga seems to often get caught in the thick of it even though they are not the cause. I for one feel that terms like Omnidrama and similar are not acceptable in any community calculators or otherwise and while I have not seen that term used if I do I feel the first mod/admin to encounter such words should take care of it as they see fit in accordance with their respective sites rules.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: ACagliano on November 09, 2010, 06:17:14 pm
I am a member of both sites and I do not see a major issue, but then again I do not comb through every forum and topic. I do, however, see a division in "strong points" between the two. Generally, I find that if I am looking for anything related to Axe or gaming, Omnimaga is my better bet, but if I am looking for help with assembly routines and assembly concepts, my topics get "hit" more on cemetech (a shout out and a thank you to DeepThought, thepenguin77, and many other omnimaga users who have also helped me a great deal)
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2010, 06:19:11 pm
Also one thing to clarify:

When you arrive on a site: there's no such thing as the first ammendmnent. It's not protected by it. You can say what you want, but the admins are free to censor anything they want or punish people for whatever reason they want. The only thing you can do is if you are not satisfied with that, you need to start your own forum.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 06:19:24 pm
Qwerty: It's pretty convoluted, and we don't fully understand it.  This (http://wikiti.brandonw.net/index.php?title=83Plus:OS:84_Plus_USB_Information) page sums up our knowledge quite nicely.

Jonimus and ACagliano, fair enough.

Also one thing to clarify:

When you arrive on a site: there's no such thing as the first ammendmnent. It's not protected by it. You can say what you want, but the admins are free to censor anything they want or punish people for whatever reason they want. The only thing you can do is if you are not satisfied with that, you need to start your own forum.
That is true, however, I was merely expressing my opinion on the matter.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: JonimusPrime on November 09, 2010, 06:27:09 pm
Qwerty: It's pretty convoluted, and we don't fully understand it.  This (http://wikiti.brandonw.net/index.php?title=83Plus:OS:84_Plus_USB_Information) page sums up our knowledge quite nicely.

Jonimus and ACagliano, fair enough.

Also one thing to clarify:

When you arrive on a site: there's no such thing as the first ammendmnent. It's not protected by it. You can say what you want, but the admins are free to censor anything they want or punish people for whatever reason they want. The only thing you can do is if you are not satisfied with that, you need to start your own forum.
That is true, however, I was merely expressing my opinion on the matter.
But there is a difference between saying, "Our Problem with your site" and constructive criticism. Its not what you mean to say but how you said it that is part of the issue.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: AngelFish on November 09, 2010, 06:28:25 pm
Qwerty: It's pretty convoluted, and we don't fully understand it.  This (http://wikiti.brandonw.net/index.php?title=83Plus:OS:84_Plus_USB_Information) page sums up our knowledge quite nicely.

Hm, that page looks like the documentation on the last pneumatic system I designed: vastly overcomplicated. Couldn't they have used standard networking protocols?
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 06:28:52 pm
The title of the post was a last minute decision, I could not for the life of me think of a good title.  It is the least important part.  Omnimaga is not attacking Cemetech with this post.
Hm, that page looks like the documentation on the last pneumatic system I designed: vastly overcomplicated. Couldn't they have used standard networking protocols?
Can we find a more appropriate medium to discuss this than this topic?
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: JonimusPrime on November 09, 2010, 06:30:01 pm
The title of the post was a last minute decision, I could not for the life of me think of a good title.  It is the least important part.  Omnimaga is not attacking Cemetech with this post.
But you continued that tone throughout the post, that was my point, the topic was just an example.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 06:31:18 pm
I appreciate your point, but the tone of the post is not as important as the idea.  My opinions are hard to get across in a tone that will not offend anyone.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Raylin on November 09, 2010, 06:32:31 pm
It's been a while since I've broke the meanness restraints I put on myself long ago.
But, congratulations. You get to see what Raylin really believes.

Personally, I don't give a damn what drama happens where.
I could care less about Kerm's PR plugs for Cemetech and DJ's fervent sustaining of forum activity.
(Ha. Fervent is putting it nicely. By the way, both Kerm and DJ are wrong on this front.)

I joined both of these forums once upon a time because I was a noob in calculators and needed help.
I needed something to do and most importantly, I needed people as nerdy as I.

tl;dr: Kerm and DJ: Get your shit together and get along. You can't change forums. So, stop trying to change each other's.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2010, 06:33:24 pm
Qwerty: It's pretty convoluted, and we don't fully understand it.  This (http://wikiti.brandonw.net/index.php?title=83Plus:OS:84_Plus_USB_Information) page sums up our knowledge quite nicely.

Jonimus and ACagliano, fair enough.

Also one thing to clarify:

When you arrive on a site: there's no such thing as the first ammendmnent. It's not protected by it. You can say what you want, but the admins are free to censor anything they want or punish people for whatever reason they want. The only thing you can do is if you are not satisfied with that, you need to start your own forum.
That is true, however, I was merely expressing my opinion on the matter.
But there is a difference between saying, "Our Problem with your site" and constructive criticism. Its not what you mean to say but how you said it that is part of the issue.
Yeah I think that's the issue. SirCmpwn expressed his opinion, commenting on the site and what should be improved, but it was done in a way that sounds like an attack on the site.

It's like if I made a calc RPG and someone said "Nice, but what I hate about your game is that the graphics are horrible and they should be changed". A negative tone can negate a positive comment as a whole. It would be better if the person said "I think your graphics need some improvements but otherwise good job". Exactly the same thing is being said but the different tone can make a huge difference in the end.

Also Raylin that stuff was sorted a long while ago, I'm not sure why you are badmouthing me here.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Raylin on November 09, 2010, 06:34:00 pm
Interpret it how you want.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: nemo on November 09, 2010, 06:34:38 pm
tl;dr: Kerm and DJ: Get your shit together and get along. You can't change forums. So, stop trying to change each other's.

they aren't trying to change each other's forums. this topic exists because Sir put it here, not DJ. DJ even rated down Sir's post, so take that for what you will. Kerm i cannot speak for as i haven't heard him say anything on the subject. but i haven't seen him try to influence omnimaga at all.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 06:36:06 pm
tl;dr: Kerm and DJ: Get your shit together and get along. You can't change forums. So, stop trying to change each other's.
I agree, but it is not just a problem between the two of them.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: jnesselr on November 09, 2010, 06:47:32 pm
Here's my opinion on it. Many people don't like cemetech for whatever reason. Many people don't like omnimaga for whatever reason. These are Kerm and DJ's sites. If you think you can make a better one, then go for it. Just make sure you have a set set of rules and just go for it. Hey, we like new groups inside the community.
But see, that's the thing. We are in a community. We are a group of people that share the same interests. Each site has a different way of doing things.
On cemetech, they basically make you smarter by expecting this level. It's basically that they help you by making you help yourselves, and not babysitting you like a child. I truly think they try to balance that out as best they can.
On Omnimaga, they want to help you too, but they choose to do it in a different way. Sure, they might like to play games and stuff, but they also have a somewhat friendlier atmosphere at first glance.

Either way, both communities have something in common. We are a group of people that are separate, but one. And we won't let something as silly as a flame war get us down. We will stand united.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: ACagliano on November 09, 2010, 06:47:46 pm
Cross-posting from cemetech:

Quote from: TheStorm
Quote from: ACagliano
@ nemo: If you were new to programming of any form and posted a question, would you rather be hit with a link, or given a personalized explanation?
The issue is that much of programming is learning how to solve problems not have others solve them for you. Eventually you will have to learn how to find answers yourself and users do eventually burn out from helping the new programmers day in and day out in place of getting their own work done.

Granted. But, it is nice to know that if you ever have a question, or if after reading something, you don't quite grasp it, you can ask someone to explain it to you. And that is something that is great about both Cemetech and Omnimaga. I know that I can come on here and ask Kerm Martian a question about DCS7 or about custom interrupts, and provided he isn't swamped, he will usually answer me right away, then he will make sure that I understand what he said. DJ is the same way. Now, I can't reasonably expect everyone to be that helpful ALL the time. But it is a welcoming feeling. And there are individuals on both sites who give that welcoming vibe.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2010, 07:01:35 pm
tl;dr: Kerm and DJ: Get your shit together and get along. You can't change forums. So, stop trying to change each other's.
I agree, but it is not just a problem between the two of them.
That thing was solved 3 months ago, anyway.

Anyway, can't we just agree that Cemetech and Omni are the two best TI communities around? (besides ticalc.org, but that is more a news site/archive now)
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Netham45 on November 09, 2010, 07:03:16 pm
Hey, we like new groups inside the community.

Just sayin, when we had a bunch of groups, it didn't really help. All the discussion and such was fragmented, it was really hard to get ideas down where everyone could help build on them.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2010, 07:09:05 pm
Yeah, like I said. However, if UTI was more active it would be good. Back then the community worked fine with 4 large forums around. It's just that it's best to not start plenty of small forums just for the sake of having a forum, like I saw back in 2005.

Anyway, I think this is solved. Do you guys think I should lock this topic, now, in case 4 months later, somebody necroposts in it, giving his view on the matter without having any clue what happened? That is typical on forums.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: AngelFish on November 09, 2010, 07:10:39 pm
Yes, it would probably be best if this thread were locked. I'll slip in one last comment that's not meant to be offensive: I think this is what they meant by "Omnidrama."
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 07:12:27 pm
I think that locking it is the wrong choice.  People should be able to reply.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Builderboy on November 09, 2010, 07:12:46 pm
DJ i think your first post in this topic was right on the money, Cemetech is Kerms site and its his to run.  Period.

And i don't think there is any issue with this being locked.  Any objections?

EDIT: Ninja yes there are
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Munchor on November 09, 2010, 07:13:01 pm
I think that locking it is the wrong choice.  People should be able to reply.

So do I, we are discussing a problem with Omnimaga Forums in general :s
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: jnesselr on November 09, 2010, 07:14:55 pm
I agree with the no lock idea.  And if someone posts in 4 months, we:
Spoiler For Spoiler:
What, did you think I was gonna rick-roll you? explain it or ignore it.  but for now it doesn't need to be locked.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: nemo on November 09, 2010, 07:14:59 pm
well, that makes this topic in the wrong forum section. am i right?
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 07:15:01 pm
And i don't think there is any issue with this being locked.  Any objections?
Objection.  That would defeat the entire purpose of this post.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2010, 07:16:35 pm
Well, I will let it open, but if someone bump it 4 months later without even checking what happened first, then attempts at instigating a fight, he's sure gonna get a -1 respect and warning from me.

I'M not a big fan of locking topics either. I was just a bit worried it could lead to that, because there are such people on the Internet.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: nemo on November 09, 2010, 07:16:42 pm
And i don't think there is any issue with this being locked.  Any objections?
Objection.  That would defeat the entire purpose of this post.

which begs the question, what was the entire purpose of the post? purely to compare cause and effect of course, no implications.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: SirCmpwn on November 09, 2010, 07:17:51 pm
I feel that there is a problem with Cemetech, and after several events that wound me up more and more about it, I felt the need to post about it, hoping that something would be done about it.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2010, 07:18:34 pm
Which post? ???

Do you mean SirCmpwn's post that was purposely intended to discuss about the purpose of this topic, defeating its purpose?
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: nemo on November 09, 2010, 07:19:33 pm
Which post? ???

Do you mean SirCmpwn's post that was purposely intended to discuss about the purpose of this topic, defeating its purpose?

the first one. when i said post i meant to refer to the whole topic in general.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 09, 2010, 07:26:12 pm
Oh I was kidding about my 2nd question. Hence the overuse of "purpose" in it.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: qazz42 on November 13, 2010, 09:52:02 am
Personally, I rated down the post, because I and others have brought up problems from other sites on here or vice-versa in the past, and it only caused more problems than it should. Such matter should be discussed with the admin concerned, or the admin should discuss them with you, like I do everytime there is an issue between an Omni member and myself/my site.

I disagree that the rant should have been deleted, I think it would be fine since it would clarify things, but it is Kerm's website: He has the right to decide what is allowed and what's not, and you can do nothing about it. The only thing you can do is if something wrong occurs on Omnimaga directly. It's like if someone complains that we're too strict on rude comments: Omnimaga is our site and we reserve the right to punish people who are unnecessarly rude to others. Cemetech is not Omnimaga and Omnimaga is not Cemetech. It's Kerm decision run run Cemetech how he does. I tried convincing every admin of other sites to disallow rude comments before and it gave me a bad reputation for a while, because they are not my site and admins there can run them how they want.

That said, I do not know what happens behind the scenes and I effectively saw words "omnidrama" or "omninoobs" before, but we can do nothing about it. If people notice bad things said against Omnimaga, it's up to them to decide if they mind it or not and if they want to stay or leave. If you have suggestions to improve Cemetech, you should post them in his website sub-forum. If they get censored, then at least you will have tried to post them at the right place.

I'm leaving this topic intact and open, but if it turns into an Cemetech bashing thread or an inter community dispute, I will lock it and take the usual action against those who participated. Let's learn from the community past mistakes that nearly caused its death, shall we?

^ this

quite frankly, I go on both sites, but in my personal opinion [/dont hurt me] I HAVE noticed that omni tends to get a few newbies that are n00bs, but al least when they act like that, they get the right punishment :D
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Munchor on November 13, 2010, 09:53:27 am
I go to both now, to get more help.

HOWEVER, Omnimaga's community replies much faster and is much bigger it seems, so we can always have help, both noobs and experienced programmers. Eitherway, I don't want trouble between sites, so qazz42, watch out
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Michael_Lee on November 13, 2010, 10:32:27 am
I've only just started frequenting Cemetech, so my understanding of this topic is fairly light.  So correct me if I'm wrong.  However,

It seems to me that Cemetech has a higher expectation of competence on its newcomers?
It also seems to met that Omnimaga has a higher expectation on its senior members to help new ones? 

(lol, it'd be funny if there's a conservative vs liberal mindset conflict here.  But the last thing we need is to inject politics into this, so I digress...)

I think both perspectives are valid.  If Cemetech's higher focus on independence perhaps leads to harsher comments, so be it.  There are benefits and downfalls to every single point of view, and people are free to frequent whichever forum they wish.  But the one thing we don't need to do is bash each other, or try to turn either forum into a clone of the other.  Some diversity is good.

Let's just all get along?  Please?  Both forums have lots to offer, and it'd be silly to start a flame war.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Munchor on November 13, 2010, 10:33:59 am
I've only just started frequenting Cemetech, so I'm not sure if what I have to say is correct.

It seems to me that Cemetech has a higher expectation of competence on its newcomers?
It also seems to met that Omnimaga has a higher expectation on its senior members to help new ones? 

(lol, it'd be funny if there's a conservative vs liberal mindset conflict here.  But the last thing we need is to inject politics into this, so I digress...)

I think both perspectives are valid.  If Cemetech's higher focus on independence perhaps leads to harsher comments, so be it.  There are benefits and downfalls to every single point of view, and people are free to frequent whichever forum they wish.  But the one thing we don't need to do is bash each other, or try to turn either forum into a clone of the other.  Some diversity is good.


We could also compare Omnimaga VS Ticalc VS UnitedTI vs TI-BANK vs Cemetech? Heinh? Tough battle,

but...

not needed

Since we all program Free to calculators, we don't need to start a war.

However, that's just my point of view :s


EDIT: 500 posts!
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: MRide on November 13, 2010, 10:36:25 am
Jeez, Scout, what is happening to your respect?  I think someone's out to get you.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Munchor on November 13, 2010, 10:37:09 am
Jeez, Scout, what is happening to your respect?  I think someone's out to get you.

So true, I have the most constantly changing respect of the forum :D
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: qazz42 on November 13, 2010, 11:42:45 am
"It seems to me that Cemetech has a higher expectation of competence on its newcomers?"

True, but I have to say, that shaped me up quite alot XD
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 13, 2010, 11:52:39 am
That said, it was solved a few days ago anyway, so no need to dwell on the issue. Omnimaga is Omnimaga. Cemetech is Cemetech. Plus a lot of members from those sites visits both, anyway, which proves that both are good in some ways.

As for the respect issue, I spotted a person that abused the rating system and he has been warned. If he continues he'll be banned for vandalism.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: NeoCrisis on November 13, 2010, 11:53:48 am
That said, it was solved a few days ago anyway, so no need to dwell on the issue. Omnimaga is Omnimaga. Cemetech is Cemetech. Plus a lot of members from those sites visits both, anyway, which proves that both are good in some ways.

As for the respect issue, I spotted a person that abused the rating system and he has been warned. If he continues he'll be banned for vandalism.

+1 (in french: je plussoie ;D)
I visit this site too, but only for SourceCoder until I get my calc back ;D
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: Munchor on November 13, 2010, 12:13:54 pm
That said, it was solved a few days ago anyway, so no need to dwell on the issue. Omnimaga is Omnimaga. Cemetech is Cemetech. Plus a lot of members from those sites visits both, anyway, which proves that both are good in some ways.

As for the respect issue, I spotted a person that abused the rating system and he has been warned. If he continues he'll be banned for vandalism.

+1 (in french: je plussoie ;D)
I visit this site too, but only for SourceCoder until I get my calc back ;D

If I succeed with my 8xp to txt I may try PHP and make an "OmniTyper" hahaha, but that would be truly hard and almost impossible, since I suck at PHP
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 13, 2010, 12:33:41 pm
Well I think SourceCoder does the job pretty fine right now and instead of making an alternative it might be best to suggest features to Kerm, who might implement them if enough people are interested.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: TC01 on November 13, 2010, 12:39:04 pm
The only point of making an "OmniTyper" would be to compete with SourceCoder.

IMO, a non-Internet program to do what SourceCoder does would be far more useful than something trying to imitate SourceCoder.
Title: Re: Our Current Problem
Post by: DJ Omnimaga on November 13, 2010, 12:41:11 pm
Yeah. That said I noticed there are quite a lot of offline ones lately too, though. There was Cooliojazz, then one year later Tokens then now ScoutDavid wants to make one. It might be best to just unite forces and create an even better one by providing suggestions. Merthsoft version seems to be progressing along nicely so it could be that one.