Author Topic: Our Current Problem  (Read 16132 times)

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SirCmpwn

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Our Current Problem
« on: November 09, 2010, 05:29:37 pm »
This will likely offend you, KermM, although I have been careful to avoid that.  Read it with caution.  I also ask that no one with the power to do so edits, locks, or deletes this post.  You may not like what I have to say, but at least let me say it, and let others respond freely.
I feel like there needs to be a change on Cemetech.  It's a great board, don't get me wrong, with lots of skilled programmers.  It hosts one of the best shells ever, DCS7.  I really appriciate all of the help that myself and others have gotten from here. 

However, I feel like there are some obvious problems that have been occuring.  I do not mean to offend, but merely to be heard.
1) The anti-Omnimaga "vibe"
I feel like, although no one admits to it or talks about it, many of the people here give off an air of dislike, or even a hatred.  There is nothing wrong with Omnimaga.  It is the most active calculator board out there.  It is the home to 17+ active projects.  Yet people still look down on Omnimaga as if Cemetech is better.  I've heard the term Omninoobs more times than I can count from here.  Omni doesn't bash Cemetech.  We post news about a lot of Cemetech related things.  A lot of people who host projects on Omnimaga cross-post with Cemetech.  I've never seen KermM cross-post a DCS7 update with Omnimaga until it was completely done.  Can we try to bring the community together, instead of tear it in two?  We have a hard enough time fighting TI without our little internal conflicts.
2) Censorship
I don't think it's a coincidence that every time I have mentioned Omnimaga in a post, that it is removed.  I have been told plenty of times that it wasn't simply an anti-Omnimaga guesture, but I simply don't believe it.  Those posts haven't been spamming Omnimaga, either.  For example, Omnimaga offers file attachments to posts, so when I'm cross-posting, I will usually provide a link to the file on Omnimaga.  I provided one such link, and it was changed to serve the same purpose, but without the text "omnimaga" visible.  The most blatant abuse of censorship power is a rant I posted, in the rant board that edited out the entire rant, to the point where no one could possibly guess the contents of the topic from the title.  I fully appriciate the power an admin holds to edit posts.  However, history has shown that those with power abuse it the most.  Spam is one thing, but editing out an honest opinion because you disagree with it is wrong.
3) Encouragement
A lot of people on Cemetech are very encouraging of projects.  However, others are not.  And the admins don't do anything about it.  I think it's best to encourage more cool things for calcs, not to discourage things.  If someone is struggling with something, like I am with raw flash control, it is not time to discourage them and tell them they can't do it.  It's a good time to help them achieve their goals.  Would a school administrator stand by a coach telling a player how much they suck, without even a word?

I will not apologize for my opinion, but I do not fault anyone for disagreeing with it.  I'm not saying that Omnimaga is perfect, either.  In fact, both boards are far from perfect.  I'm simply stating my opinion, and I hope to make the community better in the process.

Offline Munchor

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2010, 05:35:44 pm »
'Omninoobs'? 'Omnoobs' would be better, people can't even insult us the good way.

I'm not even registered in Cemetech because their logo doesn't appeal me and when I go there, I leave quickly, maybe the way it is organized, the colours. I have no doubts on it being a great board with DoorsCS7 (which I use ;)) and SourceCoder (which I use) and a Final Fantasy RPG.

Also, we are both 'fighting' TI, so we shoudln't be fighting each other.

Offline yunhua98

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2010, 05:37:23 pm »
rated up.  I do not have an account on Cemetech, but I do lurk there very often.  I have noticed a couple people trolling and discouraging others.  In fact, a couple of days ago, Ranman was asking if one of his posts were to long, because a member had said "tl:dr" to one of his posts that were menat to help others, he was not forcing anyone to read it.  Another example is how Sir was discouraged from screating KOS.  I feel that Cemetech is a great and active board, but I beleive there is a lack of "friendship and encouragement" that exists between Omnimembers.

also, the above is NOT the reason I have not joined Cemetech, I doubt it will bother me that much, it is mainly because I lack hardware and ASM knowledge, so I generally cannot follow the discussion there.  ;)

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Offline Netham45

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2010, 05:40:36 pm »
I respect Cemetech for it's knowledge, they have some of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to hardware and  concepts in the community, but a fair deal of their morals and ideas are just not what the community needs.

The constant trolling and complete and utter lack of administrative intervention is an issue. I don't care if it stays over at Cemetech, but when you start bringing other sites and other people into it, it becomes an issue to me, and needs to stop.

I'd also like to add KermM spamming invites to Cemetech to Omnimaga members both over IRC and through the PM system. I believe that this has stopped, but the community feud that that was fueling is ridiculous. Site affiliation is one thing, but secretly using another board for spamming and plugging your site is completely inappropriate, and will do nothing but further sever the community. Continually bashing the administrators of other sites behind their backs isn't going to help anyone either.
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Offline nemo

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2010, 05:47:06 pm »
nothing against you sir, and i think i agree with part of the things you say (the other i can't make a judgement on, since i don't visit cemetech very often), but i really think our current problem is stirring up unnecessary drama. so someone calls us Omninoobs. or someone discouraged your project. my question is: why does that matter? if someone is bringing you down on a forum, no one is forcing you to remain a member. again, nothing against you sir, but i think posts like these, by specifically targeting another forum's bad qualities, is what would potentially bring the community apart. i know you're trying to do a good thing, but i think that a simple PM to Kerm or another Cemetech admin about this would bring it to their private, sole attention to be either dealt with or ignored. and if it's ignored, like i said, you aren't forced to be a part of a forum. to reiterate: just my opinion on this.


SirCmpwn

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2010, 05:48:04 pm »
That is a valid point.  But the problem is re-occurrence.  It happens all the time.

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2010, 05:50:25 pm »
Jeez, this is messed up. We all program for free, we devote our time and energy and thought to a project that is much larger than any site on calculator programming that exists. Why are there programmers out there that would act that way. In order to further the development of programming skills and ability, we need to collaborate. This is ridiculous and it is not called for. I have only checked out the site a few times (back when I was a BASIC programmer) and I know there is intelligence there, so is it all devoted to the programming and none to humanity?

Offline Munchor

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2010, 05:51:05 pm »
Jeez, this is messed up. We all program for free, we devote our time and energy and thought to a project that is much larger than any site on calculator programming that exists. Why are there programmers out there that would act that way. In order to further the development of programming skills and ability, we need to collaborate. This is ridiculous and it is not called for. I have only checked out the site a few times (back when I was a BASIC programmer) and I know there is intelligence there, so is it all devoted to the programming and none to humanity?

Affirmative, totally agree with the first sentece, very correct, indeed!

Offline Netham45

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2010, 05:51:17 pm »
We're not trying to say Cemetech sucks, we're just saying that we don't appreciate them saying that we suck so often.

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« Last Edit: November 09, 2010, 06:08:44 pm by Netham45 »
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SirCmpwn

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #9 on: November 09, 2010, 05:52:19 pm »
Like I said, we have a hard enough time fighting TI without our little internal conflicts.

Offline Xeda112358

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #10 on: November 09, 2010, 05:54:42 pm »
That is a valid point.  But the problem is re-occurrence.  It happens all the time.

And I do not like the sound of censorship. Anybody else? That is not something I agree with, so I am glad we know some of the possible obstacles in our way. We need to collaborate and combine our knowledge and we need to know what can disrupt that path. I am very glad this topic was added and I plan to join Cemtech soon.

Offline Netham45

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #11 on: November 09, 2010, 05:56:01 pm »

And I do not like the sound of censorship. Anybody else? That is not something I agree with, so I am glad we know some of the possible obstacles in our way. We need to collaborate and combine our knowledge and we need to know what can disrupt that path. I am very glad this topic was added and I plan to join Cemtech soon.

I fail to see how censorship fits in.

Although, I do agree in collaboration being the best for the community.
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Offline DJ Omnimaga

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2010, 05:56:45 pm »
Personally, I rated down the post, because I and others have brought up problems from other sites on here or vice-versa in the past, and it only caused more problems than it should. Such matter should be discussed with the admin concerned, or the admin should discuss them with you, like I do everytime there is an issue between an Omni member and myself/my site.

I disagree that the rant should have been deleted, I think it would be fine since it would clarify things, but it is Kerm's website: He has the right to decide what is allowed and what's not, and you can do nothing about it. The only thing you can do is if something wrong occurs on Omnimaga directly. It's like if someone complains that we're too strict on rude comments: Omnimaga is our site and we reserve the right to punish people who are unnecessarly rude to others. Cemetech is not Omnimaga and Omnimaga is not Cemetech. It's Kerm decision run run Cemetech how he does. I tried convincing every admin of other sites to disallow rude comments before and it gave me a bad reputation for a while, because they are not my site and admins there can run them how they want.

That said, I do not know what happens behind the scenes and I effectively saw words "omnidrama" or "omninoobs" before, but we can do nothing about it. If people notice bad things said against Omnimaga, it's up to them to decide if they mind it or not and if they want to stay or leave. If you have suggestions to improve Cemetech, you should post them in his website sub-forum. If they get censored, then at least you will have tried to post them at the right place.

I'm leaving this topic intact and open, but if it turns into an Cemetech bashing thread or an inter community dispute, I will lock it and take the usual action against those who participated. Let's learn from the community past mistakes that nearly caused its death, shall we?
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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #13 on: November 09, 2010, 05:57:17 pm »
We're not trying to say Cemetech sucks, we're just saying that we don't appreciate them saying that we suck so often. Even KermM bitches and whines about how he thinks Omnimaga sucks.

Also, PMing their admins wouldn't resolve anything, you'd be promptly ignored.
Now is not the time to get angry. Now is the time to use our brains and resolve conflict. I am disappointed and a little irritated as well, but we will need to be calm in order to look at what is happening through a lens as unbiased as possible.

Offline adamac16

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Re: Our Current Problem
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2010, 05:58:51 pm »
Can't we all just get along?