Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calculators => Topic started by: agent84 on November 21, 2009, 12:54:26 pm
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I have always wanted to know:
What are the point of BASIC protected programs. I get their basic point, but why keep your code hidden away from everyone?
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Well, originally, I wanted it done because it was easy for people to cheat by going into my code.
Then, there's some people that will go in to check something and delete the stuff without knowing how to fix it.
So... basically, it was to stop stupid people and accidents from happening.
Other than that, I'm fine with people learning from my code if possible.
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It's not that you can't de-lock it d:
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I am personaly against locking programs, but then again, i have never had the misfortune of anybody messing with my code and blaming me :X hope i never will!
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Well, blocking the program so no one steals your code is stupid. You can still access the protected program's code if you have the DOORS shell installed on your calculator.
AP makes a great point tho, I hate it when ppl accidentally delete a line in the code, making it useless
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hmhh
I can understand that when you put literally dozens of hour of work in a game, you don't want just anyone to scr*w with your code tho. I have the principal that I don't just copy/paste code (otherwise I'd have 'made' a lot of games), but there are people that rip codes and claim it their own. x.x
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I COMPLETELY understand that. But if those people steal codes, re-released the game as their own, you KNOW that its your own code. Even though you are one who put the time and effort into it, all that matters is the contribution you have done to the community.
Of course you would like it that you would be recognized for your work, but I don't think protecting programs is the solution.
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Well, because of that, the only programs I lock anymore are, thanks to Celtic III, programs that contain Map or Save File data on them.
I hide all subprograms though. Not for any real reason but to make people have a clean program list and don't have the issue of sifting through a lot of programs to finally run the right one.
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I have always wanted to know:
What are the point of BASIC protected programs. I get their basic point, but why keep your code hidden away from everyone?
Actually, you can easily unlock the program with the many tools around.
Forgetting that, protected in games prevents some cheating. More determined cheaters, can unlock the program or just mess with lists blindly until find it.
Protected programs can avoid problems to some users and not bloat the edit menu of programs. If it is a finished program why edit? And if you want to learn from the code, just unlock. (you should put a note on readme that it is ok to see the code)
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You seems to be lashing on people who protect their programs, though. At least, the way you are saying it almost makes it look like you are saying everyone who blocked their programs at one point are just retarded and stupid people. You need to watch out how you say things, sometimes, because some people might get offended. I give -2 to the first two posts because of this. Plus, it's not like you have the right to insult people who lock their games when you didn't even contribute anything to the TI community.
That said, I used to lock my programs so no one at school steals my code. At my school, no one knew how to unlock programs nor had a TI-PC cable to do so, so it kinda protected my stuff. Someone attempted to steal my code at school, once, but everyone figured out and he just trashed his theft copy. Later, someone asked me if he could make a game based on my Illusiat 6 game, so I unlocked it, but I told him to not send it to other people until he's done in case. Unfortunately he lost interest and didn't finish it, though.
Now about redistributing games on the Internet: TI-Graph Link software, which is the predecessor of TI-Connect, has a BASIC editor with the ability to lock/unlock any BASIC program. This software, despite being for Windows 95 and 98, still works on new OSes it seems, so if your game won't show up in MirageOs or if you don't have CODEX, then you can use TI-GL to unlock any file. Codex came out in the end of 2003, making the process even faster and easier. So now locking programs is useless unless you are distributing your game to people who barely knows anything about calculators.
There was a rumor in 2002 about a program that can permanently lock down a program, though, by hacking it or something, but the site that had the tutorials shutted down and it was only for the TI-82 and 83. I am pretty sure with ASM tools, if this was done on 83+, anyone could figure out how to unlock the files anyway. Heck, they did it with RPG Maker, they did it with Super Mario World ROM hacks. There is no way to permanently block data from someone really for that stuff.
I actually stopped locking my games around 2003 because I knew people could unlock them and they started getting complex so I thought they were better coding examples than the old ones I had before.
I am still concerned about people accidentally hitting Goto and changing something in the code without noticing then complains the game doesn'T work at all or the game crashing their calc, though (with asm libs)
EDIT: Also, about if people releases your game as their own: What, if for example, your game is unlocked, and you send a demo to school people (or someone grabs your calc while you don't pay attention then grab the game on his), but that person releases a version on ticalc BEFORE you even do so? Then if you release your own version, the other author will be able to get your file taken down for code theft cuz ticalc will not have proof that it's your own code, not to mention the thief file will have been uploaded before yours. I actually saw this happen before. This is another concern I sometimes have about keeping my code unlocked.
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Galandros: ok, thanks. Protected programs, i guess, do more good than harm. Most ppl probably aren't able to access the code if its protected.
DJ: WHOA!!!!!! I am NOT calling anyone stupid or retarded. I merely said the ACT of doing it seemed sort of pointless. I AM NOT calling anyone out, or insulting anyone, nor lashing around calling people stupid. I just wanted to know what were other functions of having protected programs in the first place. I don't think anyone feels insulted by my words, and if anyone is, please say so.
I respect ppl, and all of their contributions to anything. Sure. I haven't contributed anything to the calculator community, but I have contributed greatly to other sectors. However, I do have a right to an opinion. All I was doing was to voice out my opinion, and nothing else. I did not mean to insult anyone, and if I did, I am sorry. I understand that some ppl are more touchy with others, and this forum has strict guidelines, which is GOOD. But, please don't take away my right to an opinion, that's all I ask.
Thanks to all who have contributed to this topic. But, how can someone accidentally hit Goto, causing the code to change?
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When an error pops up, you can either "Quit" or "Goto" the spot the error was at (including hitting the [ON] button) and from there adding anything to that spot or hitting delete or clear on accident could completely mess the program up.
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ahhhhh..... how could i be so stupid :P
I do that myself sometimes. I really find it annoying when I accidentally hit Goto, and the code scrolls for about 10 mins before it finally reaches the ERROR point. Thanks for the clarification.
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I am personaly against locking programs, but then again, i have never had the misfortune of anybody messing with my code and blaming me :X hope i never will!
I stand compleatly with Builderboy on this. Locking programs prevents learning from programs and I don't know about you, but I've learned a ton from other peoples' code.
If I have a locked program I just use Doors. :D
I just want to say: Don't kill people because of thier beliefs. Unless they believe in killing people. ;D
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Galandros: ok, thanks. Protected programs, i guess, do more good than harm. Most ppl probably aren't able to access the code if its protected.
DJ: WHOA!!!!!! I am NOT calling anyone stupid or retarded. I merely said the ACT of doing it seemed sort of pointless. I AM NOT calling anyone out, or insulting anyone, nor lashing around calling people stupid. I just wanted to know what were other functions of having protected programs in the first place. I don't think anyone feels insulted by my words, and if anyone is, please say so.
I respect ppl, and all of their contributions to anything. Sure. I haven't contributed anything to the calculator community, but I have contributed greatly to other sectors. However, I do have a right to an opinion. All I was doing was to voice out my opinion, and nothing else. I did not mean to insult anyone, and if I did, I am sorry. I understand that some ppl are more touchy with others, and this forum has strict guidelines, which is GOOD. But, please don't take away my right to an opinion, that's all I ask.
Thanks to all who have contributed to this topic. But, how can someone accidentally hit Goto, causing the code to change?
ok thanks for claryfiing. It's just that some people starts topics and rant about people who does something in particular just to make them feel bad about doing it. I feel these topics can go out of hand easily. I'm not restricting anyone's opinion here (unless it involved bigotry/trolling), just the way it was said sounded more rude, but i guess i was wrong by your reply to my post.
As for Goto, on some older calcs, the Goto option is first, then Quit second. Same on TI-89. It can get confusing from time to time when you move to 83+ or 86. When I finished Illusiat 81 then started Illusiat 13, I kept pressing [2] to Quit, so it landed in the code instead and then if it broke early in the program i could accidentally change stuff. I am sometimes quick on the calc keyboard btw
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Considering all of the ways to easily unlock programs, I think that using it to protect your code has become pointless :( However, since it prevents an error from giving the option to goto the code, it significantly reduces the risk of someone accidentally breaking the code.
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If anyone really wanted to try to lock down a program, try using the prog to appvar conversion that Celtic III has, but only if you're just using it to read just data from these files. The benefit there is that it does not clutter up both the EXEC and EDIT part of the program files menu. I also realize that determined cheaters will figure out how to make the conversion back for themselves (thanks to Calcsys).
I believe the only benefit to locking down programs on the calc is, as already stated, is to keep the program menus uncluttered so people don't have to stare down at potentially hundreds of subprograms for an especially epic game. For anyone trying to learn, I would at least have instructions in the readme as to how to view these files so they, too, can learn from the way you did stuff.
If you went about trying to protect your programs in this fashion, I would suggest doing this as the last thing you do in the project and completely retest the game so that the conversion works. It's suggested to be the last thing done because I wouldn't want frustration coming from trying to look into an overprotected file.
EDIT: tl;dr : Department of Redundancy Department :P