Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calculators => Topic started by: Happybobjr on July 30, 2010, 08:26:45 pm
-
i am puting this as a code so its not googlable
I have just bought a ti-nspire non-cas click pad and i am very excited. For the past hour i have been doing research on it and was astounded that it could play game boy games on it!!! it looked so cool.
As I like to get all the information i can, i looked a little farther and found that i would be unable to do with this operating system. Somebody posted that i would need the operating system 1.2 or something to make it work. I though ok, I should be able to get that through ti. I look a little farther and see that this new os prevents downgrading to a lower os. This confuses me as why this would be done.
Is their any reason this was done? or was it an accedent by the coders of ti?
I appriciate the time you will take to respond. I am anxiously wait for an answer, thank you -james.
so will they care?
-
no. they won't care. they will just give some excuse. also, it's 1.1 and there is a news article about how to remove downgrade protection. (new on this site. hint: click news at the top)
-
do you really think i would say. haha we can get past that!!!!
i had to act ignorant.
i just want to toy with them :P
and i download 1.1 a long time ago when helping a friend ;)
[EDIT] how long do they normally take to reply?
-
It depends. sometimes, same day, sometimes you just have to wait overnight.
-
TI Cares is closed on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. You will not get a reply until Monday. :(
-
What the Heck!!
when a place says they're running 24/7 it usually means they run 24 hours 7 says a week, not 24 hours and 7 (5/7) days a week!
-
Actually, 4/7 days. But yeah, Monday is probably when you'll get a reply.
-
opps i was thinking weekend ( i don't coincider friday as weekend, its so strong :P)
-
so will they care?
nope, as usual
-
They will respond with a "I cant tell you, let me direct you to our technical group, who wont give a straight answer either"
-
They will respond with 'calculators are for math, not games'.
-
Oh, and the first e-mail you get will be no help at all, just reply to it. They are required to try everything they can to solve your technical problems, and so they must send the first e-mail to see if that helps you or not.
-
Quite ironic that TI went so against calc games when their older calcs all got a GetKey functions that is pretty much only useful inside games.
-
Quite ironic that TI went so against calc games when their older calcs all got a GetKey functions that is pretty much only useful inside games.
lmao so true :P... waiting till' monday....
-
I've found getkey useful many times for non-game programs that need a more advanced UI than just menus and input lines could provide. But it is interesting that the older Z80 calc manuals I have actually suggest video games as being an application for the getkey function.
Another thing I always thought was kind of funny was how the function reference in the back of my TI-89 manuals has an example for the NewFold command (which creates new folders) where it creates a new folder called ‘games’. :)
So TI was definitely aware of the idea of playing games on the calc and knowingly allowed it on all those models. But it seems that the Nspire is the one model that they don't want games and third-party programs to be available on.
-
James,
Thank you for contacting Texas Instruments.
I will be more than happy to answer your questions about the TI-Nspire with ClickPad.
From time to time Texas Instruments will update the Operating System (OS) of its products. This is done to enhance the features of the products. Some of these changes may require updates that will prevent the handheld from downgrading to a lower OS.
Another resource you can use to find answers to your questions, example calculations and other information is our Knowledge Base. The Knowledge Base is accessible to you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
http://support.education.ti.com
I hope that you find this information helpful. If you have further questions or comments, please feel free to send me an email.
Warmest Regards,
Cesar Lopez
is this good or should i revise it?
Thank you for your reply.
I like to do a little asm coding and other types, and i can not see how these changes would need to prevent the downgrading of an operating system. To me it seems like it would take more work as you would have to specify in newer operating systems that it would be allowed to be upgraded. What kind of features are there that require that there be no downgrades? Is it that there were permanent changes to some kind of boot to method making downgrading unstable and dangerous?
Thank you,
- james
-
lol, ask if using nleash is a good idea!
-
lol, ask if using nleash is a good idea!
Sooner or later TI is going to find out about nleash. The question is, if they haven't, do we want to tell them it exists and make it sooner for them to fix the problem?
-
lol, ask if using nleash is a good idea!
Sooner or later TI is going to find out about nleash. The question is, if they haven't, do we want to tell them it exists and make it sooner for them to fix the problem?
Considering it's on ticalc's front page, they probably already know about it.
-
sent.
-
I just sent this out:
I have noticed the lack of 3D graphing in the Nspire products.
As such, I have made my own 3D graphing program to do it.
Initially, it was in TI-BASIC, but that ended up being much too
slow and cumbersome, due to the number of lines that had to be drawn.
I decided then, to use Ndless, a tool to run assembly progams
on handhelds, and write a 3D grapher in assembly language.
It runs much faster, but I am frustrated at the fact you must
use OS 1.1 to run it, therefore sacrificing all the other math features
added in later OSes. Is there a way to make this run on
later operating systems? (Also, I am not concerned about not being
able to run this in the computer software, there are plenty of other
programs to do that for PC.)
-
amazing. This is a really good excuse.. to bad we have to talk to ti-cares and not the programmers.
-
You know, I might actually make a 3d grapher, once we have text output functions.
-
It's interesting that by writing that, you're making them answer a question about a program that (chances are) they want to hear/know nothing about, let along prevent. I would be eager to see their reply to your 3D graphing question.
-
what's infuriating is they reply with what you asked them. You ask them I noticed the new OS cannot be downgraded, and then they say We will from time to time release an OS that cannot be downgraded. WTF?!
Here' what I'll try:
Last year our class was required to buy Nspires, but this year when I was uploading a Quadratic solver for Nspire I
made, I noticed that there was a new OS! I upgraded immediately! Shortly after, I lost my Nspire, so I bought a
new one. It was a touchpad, but my teacher didn't know how to use, so he required me to get a regular clickpad,
so I bought a clickpad. But then she said I must stick to the same OS everyone else was using, OS 1.3 because
she didn't know the menus very well, so I tried to downgrade, I couldn't find the OS anywhere? Could you attach
me a copy?
-yunhua
Then if they do give me 1.3, I'll say, I can't downgrade, or something.
Suggestions?
-
:P They probably won't say anything about the teacher not understanding the menus. My guess is that they will say they no longer have OS 1.3, because the newer OS's have upgrades that prevent downloading, thereby dodging your question completely. Maybe try and say you know you can't downgrade, and how should you solve this problem?
-
Look, the first e-mail is always pointless, because they are required to send it to try and solve your problems. It's just their policy.
Reply with this:
I understand that new features will require a new OS, but that still does not explain why I cannot downgrade to a lower OS if I choose. Please help me downgrade my OS, unless there is a valid reason I should not.
Thank you.
-
James,
Thank you for the reply.
You bring up a good question, one that I do not have an answer to. Since there is nothing documented it may be considered proprietary information but I will forward your question to our developers and see if I can find any information for you. If you do not hear from me within three business days it may indicate that our developers have not responded back to me, please feel free to contact me at that point for any updates that I may have for you.
I hope that you find this information helpful. If you have further questions or comments, please feel free to send me an email.
Warmest Regards,
Cesar Lopez
You have just made my day, Thank you. I really appreciate it. I love learning as much as i can, and this may turn out to be a great opportunity. I am eager for a responce.
thank you so much, -James
we might be getting somewhere! I am starting to love ti-cares. This guy is great.
-
Great? Could you explain? or are you being sarcastic? Or do you just like trying to outsmart them? :P ;D
This could get somewhere...
-
Hmm.....if he replies back, then you can start liking him. This may be a way of avoiding you.
-
Great? Could you explain? or are you being sarcastic? Or do you just like trying to outsmart them? :P ;D
This could get somewhere...
he sounds as if he is trying, but i may be wrong
Hmm.....if he replies back, then you can start liking him. This may be a way of avoiding you.
quite possibly
-
You have just made my day, Thank you. I really appreciate it. I love learning as much as i can, and this may turn out to be a great opportunity. I am eager for a responce.
thank you so much, -James
*fb39ca4 is LOLing
-
plz let him be for real and not stalling me!!! (praying)
-
plz let him be for real and not stalling me!!! (praying)
He should be, because he sent it to the devs. (Or at least said he would) I do think you will get an e-mail back. The question is, will it be what we want?
-
plz let him be for real and not stalling me!!! (praying)
He should be, because he sent it to the devs. (Or at least said he would) I do think you will get an e-mail back. The question is, will it be what we want?
i really don't care if they make downgrading possible, i just want to know why they did this too us. nleash!
-
They did it because of Ndless. I just don't think anyone will say that.
-
They did it because of Ndless. I just don't think anyone will say that.
i am aware, i am just hopeful that they may provide a better answer.
-
Here's what I got:
Thank you for contacting Texas Instruments.
I will be more than happy to answer your questions about the TI-Nspire™ and Ndless. The Ndless document that you are referring to is not a Texas Instruments created document, therefore I am not able to comment on it.
Texas Instruments periodically updates our products to enhance the usage of the TI-Nspire. With the latest update, version 2.1, it will no longer be possible to downgrade the OS to an earlier version below 1.7.
Another resource you can use to find answers to your questions, example calculations and other information is our Knowledge Base. The Knowledge Base is accessible to you 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
http://support.education.ti.com
I hope that you find this information helpful. If you have further questions or comments, please feel free to send me an email.
Warmest Regards,
César LópezDidn't even answer my question :(
BTW, we should have a members-only section for discussing this sort of stuff.
-
BTW, we should have a members-only section for discussing this sort of stuff.
If you like, I can put this topic in Randomness, so only people that are signed in can access it. :)
-
Though then TI might create an account here. XD
I sent TI a reply:
I understand this is not a TI-created document, but there are plenty of other documents created by Nspire users. I would like to know if there is a specific reason why we can't have assembly code. The whole point of the Nspire was to be able to share documents containing documents that users create. Allowing assembly code would enhance those documents. If you cannot comment on this, could you please forward this to someone who can?
-fb39ca4
-
Brilliant response! :)
Nice job fb39ca4. :D
-
I think that last email will once-and-for-all answer our question: Will ti-cares care.
If they don't forward the email to someone who can answer the question, they don't care. If the person who recieves the forwarded email WON'T answer the question, they don't care. They have to answer the question honestly, truthfully, and without dodging to prove otherwise
-
They don't care because development is not a function or feature that TI wants to advertise.
The TI-83 is a graphing calculator to be used for educational purposes.
If the product is used for other activities, then they're all like, OHEMGEEDUDEINMAHCALCSAPPINGMAHCODE.
So, short answer, no. TI-Cares doesn't care.
-
They don't care because development is not a function or feature that TI wants to advertise.
The TI-83 is a graphing calculator to be used for educational purposes.
If the product is used for other activities, then they're all like, OHEMGEEDUDEINMAHCALCSAPPINGMAHCODE.
So, short answer, no. TI-Cares doesn't care.
Actually, although the Ti-83+ is meant for educational purposes, they encouraged designing games using ASM (let along developing ASM programs in general). Not only is Puzzle-Pack included on the Ti-83+ Silver Edition (Or used to be), but they featured a Ti-83+ ASM game, saying something like "A game you can play--when you're not doing school, that is."
True, they don't advertise development, but the fact remains that they used to support it quite nicely. I would not have worked on S.A.D. if it had not been for their SDK that was available free of charge.
-
Yes please post in the randomness section!!!.. Maybe if ti makes an account and we find it, we can stop their ip address from coming to this site.
day number 2: i will send an email after day 3.
-
Maybe if ti makes an account and we find it, we can stop their ip address from coming to this site.
I don't think we can do that. Actually I think if someone from TI came to this site and became a member, I'd be honored for them to care about this place. :D
-
I was saying as a spy....
-
I hear where you're coming from, it's just that I don't think that's the right thing to do. TI may be trying to prevent us from doing things, but if they see us (the community) as a threat, we should pat ourselves on the back, for a small group of men has attracted the attention of a large company. That is something to be proud of. :)
-
Can admins view what users are reading? I would say an account is suspicious if it was logged in often, reading member-only posts mostly, and making very few posts of their own.
-
Can admins view what users are reading?
No easier than anyone else. :)
-
It's also hard to tell if they are just a lurker or not.
-
It's also hard to tell if they are just a lurker or not.
maybe it wouldn't be terrible having a spy here...? He/She might realize how great we are and join us!!! :P
-
lol, well I don't doubt they read our front page and stuff, but I don't think we really have to worry about a spy yet, unless we start making all the jailbreaking software for the nspire instead of other sites.
-
It's also hard to tell if they are just a lurker or not.
maybe it wouldn't be terrible having a spy here...? He/She might realize how great we are and join us!!! :P
And would then be a double agent!
-
I would be so mad.
/me asks for the b&hamma
-
I think that TI's sole purpose of releasing the OS was to block Ndless, and they just put some random features in to make the new OS look great. So, from now on, you probably shouldn't get anything TI releases, because they might mean to backfire at the community.
-
It's funny, there was once a time when there were some people that worked at TI and actually spoke with people in the community. Some community members even got hired on at TI and were able to do work there. Sadly, those days are gone, and I doubt they will return.
-
There was a change in staff i think, we need the current guy to quit, so we then get a cooler president
-
lol, maybe if we crack the nspire rsa keys, then we he'll give up. jk, I doubt that.
-
Okay, sorry for the double post, but it's important.
I actually got a valid response that in no way tries to dodge the subject at all.
This is the actual quoted response. (With line breaks added)
In regards to your inquiry about Ndless and Nleash, I understand you want to know why the downgrade protection was
implemented on the calculator.
The information I received someone uses a third party application to install unauthorized operating systems, as well as
programs or applications from unauthorized sources, there is a possibility that the calculator could be permanently ruined.
This is true for many programmable calculators, not just the TI-Nspire. So the inability to downgrade was put there to
protect your calculator from becoming damaged and unusable since it is possible to put your calculator in a state that
becomes unusable using these third party apps.
So not a bad response.
-
I think they are getting sick of our e-mails since they actually gave a not too bad response.
I think we should stop constantly e-mailing them because they might get suspicious and see this topic.
-
I would agree. Really, what is to be gained by continually e-mailing them? We know what they're going to say. Or, at least, we know what they really think and are avoiding saying to be polite.
-
Okay, sorry for the double post, but it's important.
I actually got a valid response that in no way tries to dodge the subject at all.
This is the actual quoted response. (With line breaks added)
In regards to your inquiry about Ndless and Nleash, I understand you want to know why the downgrade protection was
implemented on the calculator.
The information I received someone uses a third party application to install unauthorized operating systems, as well as
programs or applications from unauthorized sources, there is a possibility that the calculator could be permanently ruined.
This is true for many programmable calculators, not just the TI-Nspire. So the inability to downgrade was put there to
protect your calculator from becoming damaged and unusable since it is possible to put your calculator in a state that
becomes unusable using these third party apps.
So not a bad response.
amazing, lol if you waited 8 more min. it would not infringe of any rules :P
-
Wait, seriously? Where did you read that?
-
nvm you were good :P
« Reply #58 on: Today at 10:48:57 »
« Reply #59 on: Today at 17:41:40 »
3: The only time double-posting is allowed (posting two messages in a row in the same topic) is either if there has been 6 hours since your last post, 3 hours if your thread has been bumped out of the New Posts page, 1 hour if it's a project update or immediately if you need to upload more than 10 file attachments at once. Otherwise, update the last post using the "EDIT" button. It will be marked as unread for all members (altough it won't bump the thread).
-
o_O you got that response? You are a hero... (not really)
-
I am glad to be a hero. TI-cares really does care! Now then. There are going to be some changes around here. From now on, you must address me as King graphmastur, the hero of the land. No disrespect will be tolerated, and any posts saying that I've totally lost my mind will be accepted as truth.
I'm truly surprised that they did give a response. I'm glad it was actually a pretty valid reason.
-
Wow, I am surprised they replied with such response. I was sure they wouldn't even be able to answer your question and just reply with a generic e-mail.
-
Wow, I am surprised they replied with such response. I was sure they wouldn't even be able to answer your question and just reply with a generic e-mail.
actually, we had gotten past the opening letter that they must send. The person I talked to actually asked someone else. But hey, I guess they have a valid reason. I replied back, but haven't received the e-mail yet. Just to be mysterious, I won't post what I said, just yet. Mostly because it would require some explaining.
Also, DJ, can we move all the nspire dev into a members only discussion group specifically for the nspire?
-
I wonder what caused their change of heart?
-
my thoughts on that email:
sure you can "ruin" you nspire.. heck you can ruin your 83+ by sending BLOD to it a jillion times with ASM.. sorry ti, but that doesn't cut it for me with that kinda possibility. Also, they said it was unstable.. yet they're the one who can make it stable if they are the ones to support it and release SDK's for it.
-
yes King graphmastur, the hero of the land.
-
I wonder what caused their change of heart?
Change in staff, probably some old guy. TI needs younger people, it is not just about the teachers, the programmers should get their own share too
-
I don't think Nspire discussion needs to be moved to a member-only forum. They'll probably just sign up anyway, not to mention it would make it sound like there's no Nspire talk to guests who browse the site, convincing them less to join, and as long as we don't release info on jailbreaking the calculator such as source code, I think it should remain public unless we are recommended by Ndless developers to keep it secret.
-
very well. It works for me, DJ.
I wonder what caused their change of heart?
Well, I believe it was the way I worded my question. That's all I'll say about it for now. ;-)
my thoughts on that email:
sure you can "ruin" you nspire.. heck you can ruin your 83+ by sending BLOD to it a jillion times with ASM.. sorry ti, but that doesn't cut it for me with that kinda possibility. Also, they said it was unstable.. yet they're the one who can make it stable if they are the ones to support it and release SDK's for it.
Yeah, but you have to realize, that they don't want a bunch of people saying that their calc is ruined, and blame it on TI. Even though they really have no control over it, so I can see where there coming from.
yes King graphmastur, the hero of the land.
Thank you. Since you respect my authority, you are now prince happybobjr.
It would be really weird if everyone started calling me king, because it would definitely go to my head. (Oh, wait, too late. lol)
For what I responded, I do believe that they will give me a straightforward answer. Basically, I said that I knew TI wouldn't be responsible if I bricked my calc, and asked them why they don't have their own dev stuff.
-
Not to mention if they were really afraid that people may brick their calcs, then why did they wait 16 years to protect their calc from 3rd party dev? 13 years ago, they even added the Asm( command on the TI-86.
-
Well, to answer that question:
I understand you would like to know why we do not provide support for a wider array of development for the TI-Nspire. The TI-Nspire handheld has built in the ability to implement programs via TI-Basic. I can understand that this may be viewed as a limited program editor; it is limited to ensure the proper operation of the calculator.
On earlier Texas Instruments graphing calculators which you could compile and develop assembly programs there were third-party shell programs and third-party operating systems which have been known to cause the calculators to lock up or malfunction. Third-party shell programs include, but are not limited to: MirageOS, DoorsOS, UniversalOS, Ion, and have been known to cause issues with the operation and implementation of the calculator.
-
So why don't they release an OS to lock up the Z80 calcs? not to give any ideas.
And on a side note, What's UniversalOS? btw, they put DoorsOS is that referring to the 68k one, or a fail spelling DoorsCS?
-
Now the next thing we know we will see a locked up OS for Z80 and 68k calcs.
Although they could not do too much damage as we already have the keys! :)
-
We have keys for 68k as well?
I doubt anyone's going to fall for one on 68k though, since they haven't updated in so long, they already give the impression they don't care about 68k anymore.
But then again, everyone may download since they're so eager after so long.
<offtopic>I just loaded OS 0.46 on WabbitEmu. ;D</offtopic>
-
UniversalOS is an old 68k kernel like DoorsOS. Both are incompatible on the Titanium.
I find it interesting that they mentioned some pretty old kernels and shells. MirageOS is probably the most commonly used of them, but that's not actively developed anymore, is it? I wonder why?
Yes, we have the 68k keys as well.
-
Well, to answer that question:
I understand you would like to know why we do not provide support for a wider array of development for the TI-Nspire. The TI-Nspire handheld has built in the ability to implement programs via TI-Basic. I can understand that this may be viewed as a limited program editor; it is limited to ensure the proper operation of the calculator.
On earlier Texas Instruments graphing calculators which you could compile and develop assembly programs there were third-party shell programs and third-party operating systems which have been known to cause the calculators to lock up or malfunction. Third-party shell programs include, but are not limited to: MirageOS, DoorsOS, UniversalOS, Ion, and have been known to cause issues with the operation and implementation of the calculator.
I have never had these shells affect the functioning of my calc. True, there's that program BrandonW made to destroy certificates, but there was a clear warning with that.
-
I had issues with Mirage, but that's back when I used Mirage 1.1...
-
Those shells can lock up the calc, but most contains or are around documentation to help you unlock your calc if a crash occurs. There's no way those shells can permanently damage the calc unless you run a program that writes to the wrong section of flash and deletes the certificate and OS. Such program, however, is hard to find in the TI community and they're hidden well for obvious reasons.
Maybe TI should just go the same way they did with 3rd party 83 OSes: installing 3rd party ASM/C software voids the warranty. Use at your own risk. This would warn people who are less experienced with calc stuff while still giving freedom for developers and those who want to use the calc for games.
-
I won't put the e-mail in yet, but basically, the person suggested to their superiors about releasing the source code of the os, and they should get back to me.
-
I kinda have doubts this company will release the source code of stuff they sell, though. I hope they eventually get open-minded again toward 3rd-party development, though.
-
I doubt we will get so lucky King graphmastur, the hero of the land, but we can still hope. Truthfully i am just glad that we are on speaking terms with ti-cares.
- prince happybobjr