Author Topic: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming  (Read 12489 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Darl181

  • «Yo buddy, you still alive?»
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
  • *
  • Posts: 3408
  • Rating: +305/-13
  • VGhlIEdhbWU=
    • View Profile
    • darl181.webuda.com
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2012, 10:35:08 pm »
Topic split. ;)

I don't have much else to add to this discussion :P other than that it would be interesting to see where TI's education department ends up in a few years..
Vy'o'us pleorsdti thl'e gjaemue

Offline alberthrocks

  • Moderator
  • LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
  • ********
  • Posts: 876
  • Rating: +103/-10
    • View Profile
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2012, 10:50:14 pm »
Casio has expressed concerns about 3rd party developement before and have no plan for a SDK. They didn't expect add-ins to be made by the community, but they have decided to give us one chance and they won't block them unless we start publishing softwares such as image converters for the american models, tools to cheat in tests and stuff that can permanently damage the calc.
That, or the Casio Prizm gets popular and teachers start whining about games and such. :/

Also Alberthro I know Lua isn't like BASIC, I was saying it's kinda like between ASM/C and BASIC. Not too slow and limited, but not offering 100% speed/freedom either. Basically, good enough to make somewhat cool games, but not enough to pull a gbc4nspire in Lua that will draw hundreds of members to Omnimaga, TI-Planet and ticalc.org whenever Ndless is useable on the latest OS. More programming examples and routine examples (such as map engines, collision detection and data management) could possibly improve Lua audience, though, because the language, while being limited, is kinda underused lately.
Actually, the focus doesn't necessarily have to be on emulators. Even emulators can be written in an upper-level language (though it will be harder, and the results will be slower). I was thinking about porting Angry Birds, Cut the Ropes, etc. that are already popular in the mobile world! :D Particularly Angry Birds... "Angry Birds ported to TI-Nspire" would certainly elicit an nDoom-like response, if not much bigger. With the new physics engine coming up, it'll be much easier to port those fun little games! ;)

(By the way, that "Lua != Basic" thing was directed to everyone - I know you already knew about the potential. It's just that some people (probably not at Omni, but elsewhere) like to bash Lua to bits and pieces. I like C/C++ better, but even then I still find it pitiful that people could bash it without doing some proper benchmarking.)

I personally should apologize for not contributing much to the Nspire community - even though I made promises back then to write some bFLT loader, I should've realized that I would need time to do such a thing, and I lack it a lot due to my studies taking precedent over everything else. I'm a man of words, not actions it seems... :P

So... there is a project that I’m planning to work on with a friend here at Omni that I believe will boost Nspire dev significantly.... but it’ll only be during the summer, and ONLY if I have time. Because of that, I’ll let it remain a secret, and offer no guarantees of its completion. If it succeeds, it’ll be released with fanfare. If it doesn’t even get a line of code, it’ll die in secrecy. That way, we won’t disappoint anyone if it doesn’t make it out the door.

(If you want a hint, the project is similar to what Adriweb suggested earlier... which I am also going to try and attempt to do before attempting the secret project I’ve mentioned above.)
Withgusto Networks Founder and Administrator
Main Server Status: http://withg.org/status/
Backup Server Status: Not available
Backup 2/MC Server Status: http://mc.withg.org/status/


Proud member of ClrHome!

Miss my old signature? Here it is!
Spoiler For Signature:
Alternate "New" IRC post notification bot (Newy) down? Go here to reset it! http://withg.org/albert/cpuhero/

Withgusto Networks Founder and Administrator
Main Server Status: http://withg.org/status/
Backup Server Status: Not available
Backup 2/MC Server Status: http://mc.withg.org/status/

Activity remains limited due to busyness from school et al. Sorry! :( Feel free to PM, email, or if you know me well enough, FB me if you have a question/concern. :)

Don't expect me to be online 24/7 until summer. Contact me via FB if you feel it's urgent.


Proud member of ClrHome!

Spoiler For "My Projects! :D":
Projects:

Computer/Web/IRC Projects:
C______c: 0% done (Doing planning and trying to not forget it :P)
A_____m: 40% done (Need to develop a sophisticated process queue, and a pretty web GUI)
AtomBot v3.0: 0% done (Planning stage, may do a litmus test of developer wants in the future)
IdeaFrenzy: 0% done (Planning and trying to not forget it :P)
wxWabbitemu: 40% done (NEED MOAR FEATURES :P)

Calculator Projects:
M__ C_____ (an A____ _____ clone): 0% done (Need to figure out physics and Axe)
C2I: 0% done (planning, checking the demand for it, and dreaming :P)

Offline jwalker

  • LV7 Elite (Next: 700)
  • *******
  • Posts: 660
  • Rating: +13/-0
  • Almost everything I have released includes a 'WZ'
    • View Profile
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #32 on: April 07, 2012, 11:40:04 pm »
Well i guess its my turn... :P
First off, i believe that even though the near future for programming the Nspire in any other language except Lua and Basic looks grim, i believe its will get better. Ti might not unlock the Nspire, but we have a realy smart group of poeple working on it. Alot of poeple have started using the Nspire, we just need to get more of these poeple hacking it, me included.
Second, if the prizm does get realy big, CASIO will be trying to lock it down too. This is because teachers and Test makers/regulators will start breathing down their backs.
Lets face it, we are a small margin of the users of all calcs. at my shool where there are at least 90 other graphing calcs (mostly 84's, but some 83's) im the only one that can program them. as far as i know im the only programmer from ND, All of the schools prety much require you to have graphing calcs, thats at least 300,000 students. Companies dont listen to the minority, so we need to either send a message that we are powerful and can break through their anti-native programming attitudes, or we need to stop wasting our breath.

This is just how i see it, you may believe parts of it are right or parts of it are wrong. Hell, maybe all of it is wrong. Maybe my opinions seem to go against each other, Maybe they work hand in hand. This is for you to decide for yourself

I like my Nspire, and i love Lua, but i also like C. i think alot of you like the second one too.
<a href="http://www.nerdtests.com/ft_cg.php?im">
<img src="http://www.nerdtests.com/images/ft/cg.php?val=9612" alt="My computer geek score is greater than 41% of all people in the world! How do you compare? Click here to find out!"> </a>

Support Casio-Scene against the attacks of matt @ matpac.co.uk ! For more information: Casio-Scene shuts down & Matt actions threads

Offline Lionel Debroux

  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2135
  • Rating: +290/-45
    • View Profile
    • TI-Chess Team
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2012, 02:16:12 am »
You haven't understood, Adriweb: I'm not saying that an improved native code SDK for the Nspire would not be a good thing, but that it can't offset the major downer that the consequences of TI's boneheadedness are.

Quote
If the only way to make TI "move" is to release "bad" (as from TI's point of view) tools like a PTT Killer or a CAS on non-CAS (or whatever), it could only cause big troubles which could lead to the end of the Npsire "reign" (i.e : it wouldn't be accepted on exams for example, and TI wouldn't sell as much so they might stop produduction).
Sorry, TI's fears of seeing the Nspire being booted out of exams is a completely delusional and irrational fear. Locking down the way TI did with the PTT mode is obviously in no way required to get a platform certified for exams - otherwise, the TI-Z80 series and the Prizm wouldn't be certified - so even if the Nspire platform's lockdown were to be tampered with, there would be no consequences. Or ar least, there shouldn't be any... but this requires that the incompetents regulating standardized tests (and making them a fatally flawed scheme in many ways) be rational, and expecting rational behaviour from the incompetents to whom the Nspire was oversold as "secure" by incompetents, might be a bit too much.

Tampering with the PTT has not been attempted yet, otherwise chances are good that we'd have found out that tampering is easy... What if the PTT mode were ridiculously easy to tamper with (access to documents, access to native code, access to forbidden math functions, etc.), and creating a new item in the long list of TI's silly mistakes over a couple decades ?
Spending several man-weeks on a crappy scheme, in order to be able to deceive the incompetents ruling standardized tests ("look, we've tried to make our platform secure"), is a very worthwhile investment :)
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TILP and TIEmu.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

Offline Dingus

  • LV4 Regular (Next: 200)
  • ****
  • Posts: 129
  • Rating: +19/-6
    • View Profile
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2012, 02:31:53 am »
Power is about influence.  A small group can exert a lot of power if they can influence the buying decisions of the larger market.  To make that point keep in mind that TI sucks up to teachers because teachers influence what kids buy.  Also keep in mind that if kids want good games and if this group provides them for prizm then kids will want prizms and TI will definitely take notice and act accordingly.  The real question is how important are calculator games to today's kids?  Is the Big calculator game demand that occurred for the 8x series there for the nspire series?  Or maybe good games on a calculator is no longer important?

Offline Jim Bauwens

  • Lua! Nspire! Linux!
  • Editor
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1881
  • Rating: +206/-7
  • Linux!
    • View Profile
    • nothing...
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2012, 04:45:22 am »
@Hoffa, TI (TI-Nspire section) does give a damn about us. They have showed it multiple ways:
- By sending email to all magor TI-Communities
- By contacting several community members, allowing them to beta test stuff
- By listening to multiple of our sugestions

@DJ, the print command was changed for something compatibilty with their upcomming SDK. TI did not think anyone would use it (Seriously, I think they never expected sound through it). I pointed them out to some nice stuff you could do with it, and they will change/revert it in the next dev cycle.

Also, the Lua platform is just becomming popular. It's important to know the Lua enviroment was quite hidden to other people than the community until T3 2012.
TI actively showed Lua (with links to the community) to many teachers, who are now started to have fun with it (you can see the trend on the nspire google group).
Also, many Lua programs are being developed 'underground'. I got some projects I haven't posted yet about, and I'm sure others too.

Now, I don't think the TI community is dying. I think it's in a special fase, as there are many factors we did not have previously.
I have to agree with Adriweb in many points too, and I don't think we have to choose a side. TI knows that many TI-Planet admins such as Adriweb work on Ndless, yet they continue to have contact with them. TI clearly isn't forcing us into choosing a side. And if the community forces us to choose .. well then I know what side I would be on.
But this isn't the case, and I'm happy to be able to work both with TI and the Ndless dev team ;)

Offline Hayleia

  • Programming Absol
  • Coder Of Tomorrow
  • LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
  • ************
  • Posts: 3367
  • Rating: +393/-7
    • View Profile
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2012, 06:57:01 am »
Or maybe good games on a calculator is no longer important?
Well in my school, a lot of students only have one TI 82-Stats and a lot of others only have one Casio Graph35+. In my class, a few have a 83+, one have a 84+ and one (not counting me) have a 84+ SE. Good games are rare. And I only know two guys who have Nspires in all my school and none of them have Ndless (one didn't know about it and the others don't manage to install it).
But for the majority of them, the bought crappy calcs because they didn't know they could have games on it (one asked me to put Tag on his 82 Stats and I lol'ed for the rest of the day).

...
The TI community is not dying but the Ndless community is. Chockosta almost gave up programming because of TI's actions. And Lua will never bring us any GBC emulator.
The only thing TI wants to avoid is OS launcher so stop updating it and we might have that "freedom to tinker" you keep asking for. And when I say "stop updating it", it is not "stop updating it during 3 weeks and TI will change, the update it", but "stop updating it".
I own: 83+ ; 84+SE ; 76.fr ; CX CAS ; Prizm ; 84+CSE
Sorry if I answer with something that seems unrelated, English is not my primary language and I might not have understood well. Sorry if I make English mistakes too.

click here to know where you got your last +1s

Offline Jim Bauwens

  • Lua! Nspire! Linux!
  • Editor
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1881
  • Rating: +206/-7
  • Linux!
    • View Profile
    • nothing...
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2012, 07:13:16 am »
The TI community is not dying but the Ndless community is. Chockosta almost gave up programming because of TI's actions. And Lua will never bring us any GBC emulator.
The only thing TI wants to avoid is OS launcher so stop updating it and we might have that "freedom to tinker" you keep asking for. And when I say "stop updating it", it is not "stop updating it during 3 weeks and TI will change, the update it", but "stop updating it".

I'm not the developer of OS launcher, and I'm not the one who is constantly asking for "freedom to tinker".
I think you might have mixed me with someone else.

Offline Lionel Debroux

  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2135
  • Rating: +290/-45
    • View Profile
    • TI-Chess Team
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2012, 07:20:34 am »
As I mentioned above, OSLauncher is perfectly harmless. And there's no valid reason to stop updating this kind of tools: they're perfectly legal.
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TILP and TIEmu.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

Offline linuxgeek96

  • LV3 Member (Next: 100)
  • ***
  • Posts: 99
  • Rating: +4/-0
  • ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
    • View Profile
    • Personal Site
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2012, 07:50:17 am »
Just my 2 cents...

Currently, I am using both an 84+ and a CX CAS for development (Terraria 2%). Why am I still using the 84+, you might ask. Because it is easier to program on-calc and has more reach, at least in my school. The CX is great for impressing people, but when it comes to reach, I'm the only one who has one in the entire school. Also, as I don't have access to a computer most of the time, the only way I can develop for it is through oclua, which is certainly not an easy solution. This is the ONLY REASON that I am not using C, or some other compiled language for it. I think that more effort should be focussed on trying to make on-calc IDEs/compilers, as I know I'm not the only one who codes with my calculator as the primary devenv.

Offline Yeong

  • Not a bridge
  • LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
  • ************
  • Posts: 3739
  • Rating: +278/-12
  • Survivor of Apocalypse
    • View Profile
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2012, 08:28:18 am »
I totally agree with linuxgeek96. If somebody make a full-functional lua on-calc editor (I know few of them is getting worked on), many people will start to learn Lua (including me) :)
Sig wipe!

Offline Hayleia

  • Programming Absol
  • Coder Of Tomorrow
  • LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
  • ************
  • Posts: 3367
  • Rating: +393/-7
    • View Profile
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2012, 10:45:19 am »
I'm not the developer of OS launcher, and I'm not the one who is constantly asking for "freedom to tinker".
I think you might have mixed me with someone else.
I was not talking about you, but "you" in general ;)

As I mentioned above, OSLauncher is perfectly harmless. And there's no valid reason to stop updating this kind of tools: they're perfectly legal.
Yes but TI hates us for this.
I own: 83+ ; 84+SE ; 76.fr ; CX CAS ; Prizm ; 84+CSE
Sorry if I answer with something that seems unrelated, English is not my primary language and I might not have understood well. Sorry if I make English mistakes too.

click here to know where you got your last +1s

Offline Lionel Debroux

  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2135
  • Rating: +290/-45
    • View Profile
    • TI-Chess Team
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2012, 10:49:31 am »
Quote from: Hayleia
Quote from: Lionel Debroux
As I mentioned above, OSLauncher is perfectly harmless. And there's no valid reason to stop updating this kind of tools: they're perfectly legal.
Yes but TI hates us for this.
Their loss :)

We have collectively been very (overly ?) kind to them...
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TILP and TIEmu.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

Offline Dingus

  • LV4 Regular (Next: 200)
  • ****
  • Posts: 129
  • Rating: +19/-6
    • View Profile
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2012, 10:51:05 am »

[/quote]Yes but TI hates us for this.
[/quote]
Why is that?

Offline Jim Bauwens

  • Lua! Nspire! Linux!
  • Editor
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1881
  • Rating: +206/-7
  • Linux!
    • View Profile
    • nothing...
Re: The Future of TI-Nspire Programming
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2012, 11:06:27 am »
I don't think TI hates us ..
They just don't like it.