Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calculators => Topic started by: program4 on August 04, 2010, 07:10:08 pm
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Currently I have the 2.40 OS. I didn't get 2.53MP because of the issues with it, but I am considering upgrading to 2.43. Are there any good/bad things to upgrading to 2.43?
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Not really, I don't think. But I'm pretty sure all the issues with 2.53 that we know about have been fixed in one way or another.
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2.43 is probably the best 84 OS, with good compatibility. ;)
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/\agreed/\
none of the pretty-print and all that(which you can get elsewhere if you really want it and avoid the terrible-terrible speed decreases)
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I'm not a TI-Z80 guy, but I've always heard about 2.43 as a good choice.
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Good things about 2.43: compatible, fast, no(t that many) bugs.
Bad things: yeah, there's no prettyprint, as schmibs said, but it made 2.53 slow down (a lot).
Agreed: 2.43 is the best so far.
EDIT: In case you didn't download it, here it is (http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/ASIA/nonProductMulti/singapore_apps.html) to save you time.
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Yup, OS 2.43 is the best, well except for OS 0.46. ;D
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I have it now, and I applied the patches also :D
Now I won't have to worry about ERR:VERSION! :)
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Wait, what? TI still has it on their website? I knew it was available from Web Archive, but I would have thought they would have gotten rid of it elsewhere.
I'm going to download it now, so if/when I get an 84+ I don't need to resort to other means if TI has gotten rid of it by then.
EDIT: What was OS 0.46? Was it the one that had experimental printing capabilities?
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EDIT: What was OS 0.46? Was it the one that had experimental printing capabilities?
Yup. I think we got it because when TI updated to one of the OSes on their site they accidentally uploaded .46 for about a day. We were lucky and got it. ;D
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Didn't it only half-work or something, tho? If I remember, a lot of stuff were broken :P. I would be scared of installing this on a 84+ if I had one.
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Slight bump.
I actually still use TI OS 2.22. For the simple reason that every OS since 2.30 had that "feature" of not connecting the dots on the graph screen when there is an asymptote at the cost of a 300% longer drawing time :P
Did that ever get "fixed" by anyone? I remember reading about why it was so slow and I saw suggestions to somewhat fix it, like changing Xres to 2 instead of 1. But that results in my sine functions having a slight dent into them =P
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I forgot. I think Xres was the solution but I don't remember if someone wrote a patch for that.
The slower drawing is an issue in many cases. Some people even use graphing functions in games.
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Basically, the major differences between the OSes are:
2.21/2.22 Old OSes. Lack major USB support, but are fast with graphing, and (apparently not) stable.
2.30/2.40-2.43 Latest normal OSes. They all have USB support(ignoring the nspire versions of 2.42 and 2.45). They have the slowdown with graphing, but they're still really stable, and have the most compatibility with the most things. They also introduced push-to-test, a way for teachers to lock the calculator down for tests. You might want to keep this in mind, though I've yet to hear an actual example of a teacher using it.
2.53/2.54 These have mathprint, which in the few minutes I've used it, was the slowest glitchiest crappiest thing ever.
I'm personally running 2.41 on my 84+, but I see no reason to go for 2.43. I can't stand mathprint, though.
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2.21 and 2.22 are far from stable. You shouldn't use them, ever. They have sequence graphing bugs (patched with http://brandonw.net/calcstuff/seqfix.zip if memory serves).
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2.21 and 2.22 are far from stable. You shouldn't use them, ever. They have sequence graphing bugs (patched with http://brandonw.net/calcstuff/seqfix.zip if memory serves).
Is that why they redid the graphing in 2.30 and onwards?
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Wait, what? TI still has it on their website? I knew it was available from Web Archive, but I would have thought they would have gotten rid of it elsewhere.
I'm going to download it now, so if/when I get an 84+ I don't need to resort to other means if TI has gotten rid of it by then.
EDIT: What was OS 0.46? Was it the one that had experimental printing capabilities?
It's not written on Brandon's web page, but the printing tests from OS 0.46 were also included from the beginning in OSes 2.21 and 2.22.
They've been removed in OS 2.30.
I have it now, and I applied the patches also :D
Now I won't have to worry about ERR:VERSION! :)
What patch ?
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Hm, can anyone give more details about the "sequence graphing bug"?
I'll admit that I hardly ever graphed sequence equations before.
I just tried it and didn't notice anything special even when tracing it which seems that the problem was from in the readme.
That being said, I still won't upgrade from OS 2.22. I don't exactly know what is meant with unstable. Does it mean random RAM clears? If so, I really didn't notice unless I used buggy programs.
Really now, why should I trade in my fast graphing speed for an USB activity hook, TI peripheral support, PTT, some new features (which I don't use) and mathprint.
The first three are utterly useless to someone who uses his graphing calculator for what it is, a graphing calculator.
There are only three reasons I can think of for why you should upgrade as a "casual user":
-Noteworthy "new" features from http://wikiti.brandonw.net/index.php?title=83Plus:OS:VersionDifferences
# "manual-line fit"
# improved graphing of functions with discontinuities when Xres=1 (the reason of the graphing slowdown)
# new statistics features:
* chi-square goodness of fit test
* confidence interval for slope
* inverse student T
(excluding features from OS 2.53)
-Stability
I'll admit that it's certainly possible that OS 2.21/2.21 is more unstable than I make it seem. To be honest I really don't have any problems with it.
Maybe there is stuff that's just buggy to use but if it is, I didn't use it up until this point. Simple as that.
-OS 2.53
http://wikiti.brandonw.net/index.php?title=83Plus:OS:OS_2.53MP_Changes
This is by far the most visible change that TI has done. You hate it or love it.
I loved the way that you can have a visual representation of the function "fnint(" for one.
I hated the nagscreen after every ram clear and the extreme slowdown when using mathprint.
This was the change I actually considered. Until I wrote a program that does exactly the same thing as mathprint does with fnint(.
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D: you use a graphing calculator for math?!
that's unpossible!
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Personally I upgrade to the latest version when possible, but in the 84+ case, I would not go further than 2.43, the latest most stable OS. I do not like MP very much and due to bad experiences I had with early OSes for a new calc, I would be scared of using OS 2.21 or the like on the 84+. When the 83+SE came out, I had OS 1.13 on it and it was by far the most unstable TI-OS I ever used. (e.g: RAM Clears when scrolling the PRGM list from the BASIC editor when you have over 50 or so). However it is your choice to not upgrade. If you never use your graphing calc to program or make games, it may not matter much to you as much as for us, calc game programmers.
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I have 2.53 MP, and I'd like to mention that I haven't really experienced any slowdown, probably because I run mostly only my programs, which aren't usually reliant on speed for effective gameplay. Could anybody provide an example of a game that runs noticeably slower on 2.53 MP?
Besides, doesn't it act like the older versions if you change it to classic mode (goes faster, e.g.)?
The nag-screen is pretty annoying, though.
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Mostly it's the homescreen that got slowed down, since the OS has to update whatever you type in into its "mathprint". Also, is seems to crash randomly after I type certain sequences of tokens (in other words, instead of the classic ERR:SYNTAX, some combos (I don't remember which) just caused a RAM clear x.x).
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I have 2.53 MP, and I'd like to mention that I haven't really experienced any slowdown, probably because I run mostly only my programs, which aren't usually reliant on speed for effective gameplay. Could anybody provide an example of a game that runs noticeably slower on 2.53 MP?
Illusiat 13 or anything else that runs on the home screen. Make sure that MATHPRINT is enabled, not CLASSIC.
There are even games that won't display properly under 2.53/4 MP. Also, all xLIB games won't run on 2.53 MP unless you install BrandonW's patch (which doesn't fix the home screen issues), although now xLIB is obsoleted by Doors CS anyway.
(http://www.omnimaga.org/images/screenshots/reuben253.gif)
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I have 2.53 MP, and I'd like to mention that I haven't really experienced any slowdown, probably because I run mostly only my programs, which aren't usually reliant on speed for effective gameplay. Could anybody provide an example of a game that runs noticeably slower on 2.53 MP?
Besides, doesn't it act like the older versions if you change it to classic mode (goes faster, e.g.)?
The nag-screen is pretty annoying, though.
Try going to the equations screen (Y=) with mathprint enabled.
I don't think that the ability to turn it off salvages it. From what I remember the shortcut menus are generally unusable when mathprint is disabled. The shortcut menus are pretty much the only reason why I'd upgrade to OS 2.53 in the first place. It seems to add unneeded complexity when you need to press a switch before you can go from a shortcutmenu to the equations screen. The fact that the ability to enable/disable mathprint is hidden deep in the mode screen doesn't help either.
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And they added stuff like summation, but you could get there with sum(seq( anyway. I'd still use 0.43. It's stable enough.
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I have 2.53 MP, and I'd like to mention that I haven't really experienced any slowdown, probably because I run mostly only my programs, which aren't usually reliant on speed for effective gameplay. Could anybody provide an example of a game that runs noticeably slower on 2.53 MP?
Besides, doesn't it act like the older versions if you change it to classic mode (goes faster, e.g.)?
The nag-screen is pretty annoying, though.
Try going to the equations screen (Y=) with mathprint enabled.
I don't think that the ability to turn it off salvages it. From what I remember the shortcut menus are generally unusable when mathprint is disabled. The shortcut menus are pretty much the only reason why I'd upgrade to OS 2.53 in the first place. It seems to add unneeded complexity when you need to press a switch before you can go from a shortcutmenu to the equations screen. The fact that the ability to enable/disable mathprint is hidden deep in the mode screen doesn't help either.
I notice no slow down when mathprint is disabled, personally, but with Mathprint ON it is terrible. Also I heard there were bugs in the OS anyway so unless you absolutely need it, I really recommend sticking to another OS (preferably 2.43, or if you absolutely need faster graphing, 2.21 or something)
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Yeah, I personally would never use anything but 2.43
also, cant you just download the pretty-print app?
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The only advantage to "MathPrint" is that it's editable in real time and in said form. With PrettyPrint (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/208/20807.html) you have to edit linearly and can't evaluate the expressions.
Not that that's very important :P PrettyPrint also has copy/paste abilities ;D
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Illusiat 13 or anything else that runs on the home screen. Make sure that MATHPRINT is enabled, not CLASSIC.
There are even games that won't display properly under 2.53/4 MP. Also, all xLIB games won't run on 2.53 MP unless you install BrandonW's patch (which doesn't fix the home screen issues), although now xLIB is obsoleted by Doors CS anyway.
Ah, thanks. xLIB doesn't work? That sucks.
Try going to the equations screen (Y=) with mathprint enabled.
I don't think that the ability to turn it off salvages it. From what I remember the shortcut menus are generally unusable when mathprint is disabled. The shortcut menus are pretty much the only reason why I'd upgrade to OS 2.53 in the first place. It seems to add unneeded complexity when you need to press a switch before you can go from a shortcutmenu to the equations screen. The fact that the ability to enable/disable mathprint is hidden deep in the mode screen doesn't help either.
By shortcut menus, do you mean the F1, F2 things? (Alpha, then one of the top menu buttons?)
Because in CLASSIC, only one of them is disabled, which is the matrix one.
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Yeah it stopped working completly I think. Celtic III worked, but some xLIB functions in Celtic III has minor compatibility issues. Doors CS solve the issue, though.
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By shortcut menus, do you mean the F1, F2 things? (Alpha, then one of the top menu buttons?)
Because in CLASSIC, only one of them is disabled, which is the matrix one.
Yes, I do. Are you saying that the stuff inside the menus actually work in classic mode? I'm pretty sure it didn't but I might be wrong.
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I know I myself got the pop up asking me if I wanted to enable them when I turned my calc ON again after disabling MATHPRINT. I disabled those menus, personally, though.
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By shortcut menus, do you mean the F1, F2 things? (Alpha, then one of the top menu buttons?)
Because in CLASSIC, only one of them is disabled, which is the matrix one.
Yes, I do. Are you saying that the stuff inside the menus actually work in classic mode? I'm pretty sure it didn't but I might be wrong.
It all works, except for the matrix one (since math print is disabled you can't pretty-print enter matrices on the home screen)
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By shortcut menus, do you mean the F1, F2 things? (Alpha, then one of the top menu buttons?)
Because in CLASSIC, only one of them is disabled, which is the matrix one.
Yes, I do. Are you saying that the stuff inside the menus actually work in classic mode? I'm pretty sure it didn't but I might be wrong.
It all works, except for the matrix one (since math print is disabled you can't pretty-print enter matrices on the home screen)
I took the effort of reïnstalling it. You're right... Kinda.
Those shortcut menu's are clearly intended to be used in conjunction with mathprint imo.
seeing as "n/d" gives me a "/" symbol in classic mode. And all the functions in "FUNC" get a prettied up representation with mathprint enabled.
You probably wouldn't have noticed that if they weren't located in that menu. It's also the only reason to use mathprint imo.
I probably should've explained myself better. The only reason I'd upgrade to OS 2.53 is to use those visual representations of functions like "fnint(" which happen to be located in those shortcut menus.
I couldn't care less about the actual shortcuts themselves.
I guess you can use those menus "just" as shortcuts in classic mode. My critique would be that it's extremely redundant since everything in FUNC is also located in MATH and require the same amount of key presses to get to.
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For some reasons, I believe they did this to lure TI-85/86 and Casio calc users. Those calcs only have such menus, no menu like on OS 2.43. Having both type of menus at once may accomodate Casio users while still letting people who had a 84+ for a while use the old 83+ style menus.
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yeah, but, did they have to be so sloppy in making the OS
instead of wasting time with fighting ndless and giving out DMCA orders, they should have tried to make a competent OS
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Yeah I agree on that. The OS slow speed in mathprint mode is not justified considering the TI-73 does it much faster (and runs on a 6 MHz processor)
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and the xlib bug
and asm instability
and some other stuff like random crashes
and ???
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So should I put BrandonW's 2.53MP OS patch or 2.43 OS on my new TI-84 Plus SE calc? :-\
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2.43
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Yeah, even with the patch, 2.53 MP is still horribly unstable. I'd say stick with 2.43.
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I would go with 2.43, in case 2.53 MP has more bugs that went unfixed by BrandonW's patch.
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OK, 2.43 it is. :)
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2.43, no hesitation about that.
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2.43
oh... wait
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2.43
oh... wait
What do you mean? O.o
/me is wondering since you already said 2.43 a few posts ago
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That was the point of the
"oh.. wait" :P
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By shortcut menus, do you mean the F1, F2 things? (Alpha, then one of the top menu buttons?)
Because in CLASSIC, only one of them is disabled, which is the matrix one.
That's weird. Why Matrix?
The only advantage to "MathPrint" is that it's editable in real time and in said form. With PrettyPrint (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/208/20807.html) you have to edit linearly and can't evaluate the expressions.
Not that that's very important :P PrettyPrint also has copy/paste abilities ;D
Really? So you can copy to the home screen?
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2.53/2.54 These have mathprint, which in the few minutes I've used it, was the slowest glitchiest crappiest thing ever.
lol so hard. :P
Go for 1.13 if you have a 83+/83+SE. The Equ->String( glitch made me switch (read: run away) alone. :P
2.43 all the way! ;D
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2.53/2.54 These have mathprint, which in the few minutes I've used it, was the slowest glitchiest crappiest thing ever.
lol so hard. :P
Go for 1.13 if you have a 83+/83+SE. The Equ->String( glitch made me switch (read: run away) alone. :P
What glitch? ???
2.43 all the way! ;D
Unless, of course, TI went back, fixed their 2.53 glitches, and made it several times faster. I seriously doubt that'll ever happen, though :P
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Read: http://ourl.ca/3687
Look a couple of pages in for a gif. :)
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Wow, they look like awesome glitches ;D
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I made the switch from 2.53MP to 2.43 today. All I can say is after a few minutes tinkering that it feels much faster and cleaner than the bloated MathPrint OS. :D I hope TI can eventually fix the issues in 2.53MP but like DT said, I highly doubt it. :P
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I think you mean DJ ;D
At least it's not like what happened once for the 68k series... A new OS was a few bytes into a new sector, meaning that the whole sector was unavailable to the user as archive space. :P
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[narcisso]DT as in me ;)[/narcisso]
calcdude: Wait, so every time you update the OS on a 68K, it makes the calc lose a whole sector? Why would TI do that? ???
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Sorry :P
No, just certain OS's are larger, but what's so sad about this one is it's barely over the limit. Note that whenever you upgrade a 68k calc, you lose all your flash apps etc.
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This gotta be by far the worst OS 1.13 glitch ever, though, simply because not only it causes data loss, but it's also easy to trigger compared to some others
(http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1090.0;attach=768;image)
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Wow... that's really bad x.x
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This gotta be by far the worst OS 1.13 glitch ever, though, simply because not only it causes data loss, but it's also easy to trigger compared to some others
(http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1090.0;attach=768;image)
critical failure!
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Yeah that happens when you have more than 50 or 60 sub-programs on your calc
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How long was that the standard release? Luckily most people don't have that many programs, but still...
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It was the first 83+SE compatible OS, back in early 2001. I think the next one came out in December 2001, but I could be wrong. Almost one year stuck with 1.13.
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hmm, these os upgrades by ti aren't really good then... losing flash apps and more...
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Wow, that's horrible. Are there any known glitches like that in OS 1.19?
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Glitches that causes RAM Clear? Well... there's the one when trying to paste 2 byte tokens with Rcl and you're out of mem (by a negative number)
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hmm, not much of a glitch, I mean, how much stuff can you have in your calc?
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I don't think there's a limit. To see, someone would have to write a program that fills the memory with empty programs from prgmA to prgmZZZZZZZZ or something like that, until RAM is full
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no, I mean how much stuff could you have in your calc to the point where you have NO memory left :P
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Oh ok. Well I'm not sure then.
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Qazz, a lot ;D
Especially if you include Archive :P
Do you mean apps, programs, or something else, though?
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Let's go back a bit earlier in the discussion (I forgot to click Post one or two days ago, after writing my message :D)
On the TI-68k, not all OS upgrades erase FlashApps and archive. It depends 1) on whether the archive recovery system is present (AMS 2.xx, but buggy until 2.05 - perhaps 2.04 works as well, but it has another significant bug and 2.05 was released shortly after) and 2) on whether the new OS uses the same number of Flash sectors as the old one (if it does, FlashApps and archive tend to be preserved; if it does not, AFAICT, they're always erased).
And yeah, the official 2.08 and 2.09 upgrades for 89 (the 92+ and V200 are unaffected) suck up an additional whole sector of archive memory (64 KB, i.e. 10% !) due to a spill of only ~100 and ~800 bytes, respectively, onto the 0x340000-34FFFF sector.
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What if the AMS you are switching to uses a smaller amount of Flash sectors instead of more?
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hmm, what about 3.10? any problems with those?
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hm imo 2.53 seems fairly ok to me... i mean i really like the prettypt when i'm in math class, and penguin's zstart lets me have it off by default most of the time and kills the annoying popup. as far as instability goes, i lost omnicalc. but that's really about it :P
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eh, I just think TI just turned lazy with the TI-84+SE line..
missing ram pages
crappy LCD displays make me think they are on LSD
crappy OS'S
etc etc
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At least the case is better, though a bit bigger :P
EDIT: Hey, you're right, qazz. TI seems lazier than ever before. If TI's not locking down the Nspire on purpose, they're claiming that they'll be adding in BASIC features in future OS editions (I think one of the replies posted here said something to that effect). In other words, they're too lazy to do it now.
Also:
1999 - TI releases TI-83 Plus. Very different from the TI-83, but same model number.
2004 - TI releases TI-84 Plus. Hardly any changes at all (especially when compared to the TI-83 Plus Silver Edition). Just a new case and a totally different model number.
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good to hear I am right
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At least the case is better, though a bit bigger :P
EDIT: Hey, you're right, qazz. TI seems lazier than ever before. If TI's not locking down the Nspire on purpose, they're claiming that they'll be adding in BASIC features in future OS editions (I think one of the replies posted here said something to that effect). In other words, they're too lazy to do it now.
Also:
1999 - TI releases TI-83 Plus. Very different from the TI-83, but same model number.
2004 - TI releases TI-84 Plus. Hardly any changes at all (especially when compared to the TI-83 Plus Silver Edition). Just a new case and a totally different model number.
To clarify, the TI-83 Plus Silver Edition came out in early 2001. I think it is the TI graphing calc that was sold for the smallest amount of time so far.
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man I want a TI-83+SE
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man I want a TI-83+SE
Man, they're awesome, but if you have an 84+SE you're not missing much. :)
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Also some older SE's seems to break only after a few years...
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Also some older SE's seems to break only after a few years...
any reason? b/c I'm getting a ti83+ se for winning cemetech contest #7.
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Not sure why. Probably poor production or something. When bending the calc a little you hear the plastic squeeze slightly and there's a small space between both parts of the case in the middle. In the past I heard a bunch of people ending up with LCD issues after 3 years of use.
In my case after 5-6 years I ended up with battery power problem, causing the batteries to be drained even when the calc is turned OFF, like if a program was running non-stop still.
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Not sure why. Probably poor production or something. When bending the calc a little you hear the plastic squeeze slightly and there's a small space between both parts of the case in the middle. In the past I heard a bunch of people ending up with LCD issues after 3 years of use.
In my case after 5-6 years I ended up with battery power problem, causing the batteries to be drained even when the calc is turned OFF, like if a program was running non-stop still.
Wow. About the crack when you bend it, maybe it's the shiny paint...
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Nah there was no paint. It isn't cracking as in breaking, but more like the noise when squeezing something when screws are a bit loose.
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man I want a TI-83+SE
Man, they're awesome, but if you have an 84+SE you're not missing much. :)
D: the TI-83+SE'S have RAM PAGES! Extra at that!
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man I want a TI-83+SE
Man, they're awesome, but if you have an 84+SE you're not missing much. :)
D: the TI-83+SE'S have RAM PAGES! Extra at that!
It depends... TI-84+SE revision G and older have 128Kb RAM exactly like the TI-83+SE.
TI-84+SE revision H and newer only have 48Kb RAM, and cannot run the Game Boy emulator for example.
Buy old TI-84+SE, because with TI, older is better! :p
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For some reasons, I believe they did this to lure TI-85/86 and Casio calc users. Those calcs only have such menus, no menu like on OS 2.43. Having both type of menus at once may accomodate Casio users while still letting people who had a 84+ for a while use the old 83+ style menus.
That's quite interesting. I never thought of it that way. TI 84/83's aren't exactly known for their userfriendly placements of stuff. :P
Casio on the other hand does it so much better imo.
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A lot of people say the 83+ is quite user-friendly compared to a lot of other calcs that aren't 85/86, but of course if you are a Casio fan you migth think otherwise. A lot of people prefered the 85/86 way of doing menus. I personally don't like them much because I find them hard to navigate but it's cool to be able to see the screen when selecting menu options.
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it's cool to be able to see the screen when selecting menu options.
That's why TI-85/86 menus were great! ;)
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it's cool to be able to see the screen when selecting menu options.
That's why TI-85/86 menus were great! ;)
Yeah. On the 83+ series, the menus sometimes get even more confusing than on Windows (and most of us have tried navigating, say, the Edit menu on certain programs :P), but at least you can get used to them (or find a shortcut like 2ND+[CATALOG]+T+[UP]+[UP]), and it displays them in a way that you can scroll in easily. Displaying three entries per screen was a very, very bad idea.
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I myself usually use the CATALOG for certain functions. I always forget if they're in STAT, 2nd+STAT, MATH, etc.
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Yeah, I agree with DJ, the CATALOG is the best way for me to find commands
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Except for stuff like sin( ;)
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Yeah true, those are all on the keypad lol.
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I like knowing the hotkeys. :)
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A lot of people say the 83+ is quite user-friendly compared to a lot of other calcs that aren't 85/86, but of course if you are a Casio fan you migth think otherwise. A lot of people prefered the 85/86 way of doing menus. I personally don't like them much because I find them hard to navigate but it's cool to be able to see the screen when selecting menu options.
I don't know. If a friend of mine were to ask advice for which graphing calculator to buy and he'd only use it for graphing and he has no interest in downloading any programs from the internet I probably would recommended the Casio. And that's saying alot since I'm pretty much a TI 84+ fanboy :P
Say he wants to draw a function and he has no prior knowledge of both calculators.
On the Casio he would have some sort of menuscreen, go to Graph, enter the function and press draw.
On the TI 84+ he would have to know that the equations screen is accessed by pressing "Y=" and then he would have to press "GRAPH". With other words he should've read the manual. This might be common sense but meh there probably alot of slackers out there that don't bother to read it unless they really have a problem. I was one of them. I just mashed some buttons till I got what I wanted.
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Yeah I remember the first time I graphed. I was really confused. I thought I would type something on the home screen and it would instantly graph it, like the Casio FX-7000G. In overall I found the 83+ to be more user-friendly, but from a math standpoint, I feel Casios are easier to get used to and cheaper. I got a 9750G+ for $25 2 years ago at Staples.
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A lot of people say the 83+ is quite user-friendly compared to a lot of other calcs that aren't 85/86, but of course if you are a Casio fan you migth think otherwise. A lot of people prefered the 85/86 way of doing menus. I personally don't like them much because I find them hard to navigate but it's cool to be able to see the screen when selecting menu options.
I don't know. If a friend of mine were to ask advice for which graphing calculator to buy and he'd only use it for graphing and he has no interest in downloading any programs from the internet I probably would recommended the Casio. And that's saying alot since I'm pretty much a TI 84+ fanboy :P
Say he wants to draw a function and he has no prior knowledge of both calculators.
On the Casio he would have some sort of menuscreen, go to Graph, enter the function and press draw.
On the TI 84+ he would have to know that the equations screen is accessed by pressing "Y=" and then he would have to press "GRAPH". With other words he should've read the manual. This might be common sense but meh there probably alot of slackers out there that don't bother to read it unless they really have a problem. I was one of them. I just mashed some buttons till I got what I wanted.
Yeah, and I still remember middle school when everyone was stumped by the u(n) screen in Y= XD