Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calculators => Topic started by: Stefan Bauwens on February 25, 2011, 09:41:31 am
-
I don't think this will help someone who wants to use the getkey command on an nspire but because I was interested to know if there would be an update(ever) to have the getket command, I contacted TI.
This is what I wrote:
---- Original Message ----
Country: BelgiumDutch
Name: Stefan
Email: [email protected]
Type of Service: CalcOrProcedure
Computer Software Setup/Usage:
Product Group: GrphHH
Product: TI-Nspire with ClickPad
Purchase Time: nomonth/noyearselected
Customer Type: NotSelected
Product Serial#:
Computer OS: NotSelected
Comments: HI,
I have a question about the ti-nspire.
I heard that you can program for it. But I also have heard that you can't use the function 'getkey()'.
This is quite important in many programs. I program 68k basic programs and I see this as a very negative point.
Isn't the ti nspire supposed to be more 'advanced' than the 68k calcs?
I would be pleased that in a future update this function can be used.
Waiting for a reply,
Stefan
And this is what I received:
Dear Stefan,
The TI-Nspire indeed does not have the getkey() programming function.
Actually, the only I/O command is 'disp'.
In general, programming on the TI-Nspire was not meant for real programming, but more for writing small programs requiring one input (entered before program execution) to e.g. automate calculations which need to be done frequently. There are currently no plans to make changes in the programming abilities of the TI-Npsire and TI-Nspire CAS models.
The TI-83/84 Plus series, Voyage 200 and TI-89 Titanium have greater programming capabilities. They do support a full range of I/O commands, hence being the better calculators to suit your needs.
Kind regards,
BERT VERMEIREN
Texas Instruments
Education Technology
This all happened today in case you would want to know.
Also because I'm from Belgium, it looks like the guy is too.(He has a dutch name.)
NOTE: I do not have a ti-nspire, but I was thinking I could ever buy one because I heard it has almost the same language as the 68k family.
I just post this in case any of you guys were interested or were expecting TI to make an update 'fixing' that function.
-
The CX might have better programming capabilities. He specifically said the the Nspire and Nspire CAS don't have that function, so the CX and CX CAS might...
-
But doesn't os 3.0 go for all 6 types of nspires?
-
But doesn't os 3.0 go for all 6 types of nspires?
I also thought so, but I hope the CX has better programmign capabilities, like Ndless.
-
Well TI has plans to eventually add more programming capabilities, but maybe they don't plan to add getKey. getKey really isn't needed to make math programs and functions, though.
-
Lets hope they do! Then I would consider buying one(ever).
-
I answered the guy with this message:
Thank you for your answer.
Is there a chance that the ti nspire CX might have this function?
Greetings,
Stefan
If he answers, it'll probably be on monday.
-
I hope it does, otherwise then it will be clear they have no plan for it in the future.
Someone should make a parser hook style app that adds extra BASIC commands, like Flib on 68K calcs or Doors CS on z80 calcs (or the discontinued Omnicalc, xLIB and Celtic III apps).
-
Ok, I got an answer:
Dear Stefan,
With the new upcoming TI-Nspire CX line are made no huge changes in the programming abilities.
I have forwarded your concerns to our product developement team for evaluation. I can't however promise that changes will be made with future updates. Although, if more similar inquiries reach our developement team, they might consider implementing some changes in future updates of the OS.
Kind regards,
BERT VERMEIREN
Texas Instruments
Education Technology
Lets wait and see...
-
Looks like TI's endgame is eliminating calculator games altogether, honestly. I can't really blame them as a company for trying to lock down the CX (refusing to add such a basic command is really the only way I can interpret that), but it's still frustrating. If a truly programmable Nspire CX was produced, odds are it would end up getting widespread distribution via class requirements, and given what's already happened with the existing calculators, would see epic development. Look at what's happened with the 83 series.
It's nice to see that you got a response. Maybe TI does care a little. :)
-
No surprise here, and we didn't expect any better from ti-doesn't-care anyway...
-
@Justcause: Well, in Belgium at least. :P
In my oppinon; the Nspire CX would likely do equally well with or without better programming. Most educators don't seem to much concerned or enticed by such things. It also doesn't help that TI has a considerable hold on the market.
-
Wouldn't more people buy ti nspires if it had more program capabilities?
TI's gotto think about that.
-
Wouldn't more people buy ti nspires if it had more program capabilities?
TI's gotto think about that.
The CX is the most powerful piece of hardware TI has yet produced. As such, given programming capabilities, there's a chance that teachers may decide its usefulness in the classroom is outweighed by its potential for distraction. This is TI's worst nightmare--their most expensive piece of hardware getting locked out of schools. By making the calc un(reasonably)programmable, they can pretty much avoid this, telling schools that "it's better than the 83 series because you can't game on it" or something.
As a community, calculator programmers and calculator gamers are a very small percentage, and one without much power at that (given that most of us are school-age and can't actually muster the cash to buy the calcs). We were never a part of TI's business strategy.
Am I wrong?
ED:
In my oppinon; the Nspire CX would likely do equally well with or without better programming. Most educators don't seem to much concerned or enticed by such things.
Well, in Belgium at least. :P
-
Mmm. You've got a point.
But to check if the pupils are doing their work, and not playing games couldn't they use this:http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_nspire_navigator.html (http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_nspire_navigator.html)?
-
But to check if the pupils are doing their work, and not playing games couldn't they use this:http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_nspire_navigator.html (http://education.ti.com/educationportal/sites/US/productDetail/us_nspire_navigator.html)?
Which costs money. Game, set, match.
-
Someone should make a game blocker for in schools, this would fix it. :)
-
Something that would work is if teachers put the calcs in some sort of limited mode where only official programs are allowed during classes (programs approved by TI) so students cannot use any third-party apps. But I don't know, to me it definitively seems they have no plan to add better programming capabilities to the calcs.
Personally, if they also removed 84+ emulation from the CX, to me it will be clear they just want people to buy 2 calcs (to play games they have to buy a 84+ but for all math functions they have to get the Nspire)
-
But what if they wanna play Doom?
-
Oh right, but I wouldn,t be surprised if TI tried to block Ndless again anyway. We'll probably be able to play Doom later, though. What sucks with the lack of a getkey function is that right now BASIC fans are simply singled out from TI-Nspire development. At least on z80 and 68K we could make good BASIC games, even if they were slower than their ASM counterparts.
-
Oh right, but I wouldn,t be surprised if TI tried to block Ndless again anyway.
Did they do it allready once?
I'm sorry if that sounds stupid but I really don't know.
The thing I don't understand is that on many schools and exams you NEED a ti 83/84(+).
So why doesn't TI block programming for those calcs?
-
They did before, by attempting at blocking downgrades below OS 1.7 (2.1 installed a trojan on your calc that disallowed downgrading back to OS 1.6 or below). It even made it to Slashdot.
As for 83+/84 I guess it's too late. The community already know how to unlock everything since years ago now and the keys were factored so TI is out of luck. Their only solution would be to discontinue that entire line of calculator.
-
I guess 'trojan' is the word. Lol
-
Yeah, because it's hidden inside the OS and installs itself on the calc without any notice. I wonder if that's even legal at all. <_<
-
Probably by downloading that new update you agree to some terms which make it legal.
-
Probably by downloading that new update you agree to some terms which make it legal.
Ninja'd
-
What's ninja'd?
-
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ninja'd
Although I don't think Dman used it in the right sense. I could be wrong, though ???
-
I was about to write exactly what he did. I caught myself before doing it though.
-
Oh ok then it's not really a ninja anymore :D (thankfully this forum prevents most ninjas since it can warn of new replies while you post)
-
Thats funny. Weird actually.
-
It's not exactly a "trojan" - that implies a program. Downgrade protection has always been there, previous OSes just always had the minimum allowed version field to 1.1.9253 (non-CAS) or 1.1.9170 (CAS) - the earliest production versions - so you never saw it.
It's not illegal, because TI never said you had the ability to downgrade the OS. In fact, the manual always said you couldn't.
-
Concerning, getkey, I think it will be relative easy to implant as soon as an exploit is discovered for the nSpire. I have seen that the new OS can export to HTML, so maybe it is possible to import HTML files, and then try to insert weird/many characters to create a buffer overflow.
-
It's not exactly a "trojan" - that implies a program. Downgrade protection has always been there, previous OSes just always had the minimum allowed version field to 1.1.9253 (non-CAS) or 1.1.9170 (CAS) - the earliest production versions - so you never saw it.
It's not illegal, because TI never said you had the ability to downgrade the OS. In fact, the manual always said you couldn't.
Ah ok, it just seemed weird that it was installed in that OS but not others, then remained intact even after actually downgrading to an allowed OS.
Concerning, getkey, I think it will be relative easy to implant as soon as an exploit is discovered for the nSpire. I have seen that the new OS can export to HTML, so maybe it is possible to import HTML files, and then try to insert weird/many characters to create a buffer overflow.
That would be a nice idea if it's possible. Personally I fear the only solution for BASIC programmers will be like 83+ programmers who wanted sprites in their programs or running archived programs: ASM libs for BASIC coders.
-
I haven't received anything from ti-cares yet( maybe they wont even send anything) but I was thinking maybe someone could make an asm/c program that has the same effect as the getkey function. I guess that with asm/c you do have a getkey function. So if yo make a program that people can run in their basic program/game that has almost the same method as getkey() this would be great.
But is it possible?
-
We don't have any integration with the OS / expression stack on the Nspire, so we can't, for now, do what we've done for more than 10 years on the TI-Z80/TIOS and TI-68k/AMS series
-
Ah, I understand. I didn't know it was that bad.
-
That sucks. I wonder if we can modify some stuff, though... After all someone changed the text to 1337sp33k and there are discussions about putting Linux on the Nspire without factoring the keys.