Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Other Calculators => Topic started by: ztrumpet on May 19, 2010, 07:39:55 pm
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I'm curious as to what you all believe "Pure" TI-Basic is. Can you use Asm programs to help write it, as long as when the program is ran it runs only basic code, or for *pure* basic you cannot use Asm at any time.
For instance, can you use this (http://www.ticalc.org/archives/files/fileinfo/391/39138.html) program while developing to use more than 10 picture variables, or just be using this program do you compromise *pure* basic? I realize this is a petty claim, but I want to know what you guys think. :)
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IMHO, pure BASIC means that the created program comes with no single line of ASM/HEX code. This means, nothing must be ran with Asm(), OpenLib/ExecLib() and no additional functions from hooks installed by APPS such as xLIB, Celtic III and Omnicalc must be used. In other words, Illusiat 13 is not pure BASIC. It's 99% BASIC. In Pure basic this game would be impossible.
Hacked pictures, strings, foreing characters, lowercase letters and the like, on the other hand, are BASIC IMHO. They may be created by ASM (or by programs originally created with the help of ASM), but to run the game, you need no single line of ASM code.
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I oppose DJ and say that pure BASIC what is type-able with the BASIC editor, which means no hacked vars. However, I guess one could say I hold a mixed opinion because I consider another version of BASIC to be what is runnable w/TI's interpreter.
So (in my levels of purity):
Pure BASIC - No hacked vars, type-able by hand
ASM-less BASIC - no libs or hooks, but hacked vars are allowed
Type-able BASIC - includes hooks, such as Celtic III and xLIB (still includes hacked vars, though)
Hybrid BASIC - anything that can be started like "prgmNAME" on the homescreen w/o a special hook
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well personally, I think that anything that runs properly with TI-BASIC interpreter and contains no ASM/HEX is pure BASIC. To me it doesn't matter if development was aided by ASM (or lib-assised BASIC programs/softwares such as SourceCoder). If the BASIC interpreter can run the code fine, then it is BASIC. While the hacked pics were created using ASM, they still run fine in the TI-OS without ASM assistance.
Otherwise this would mean that Illusiat 6, 11, 12 and Mana Force 1 are not pure-BASIC games, since I used MirageOS to enable lowercase and Francais localization APP to access greek characters. IMHO those games are still BASIC because they contains no single line of ASM code and the entire code requires no modification of the BASIC interpreter or the aid of ASM/hex libs/additional hooks to run fine.
On the xLIB/Celtic III issue, IMHO games using their hooks aren't pure-BASIC, because those game will not run if you don't have xLIB/Celtic enabled.
Axe Parser is not TI-BASIC either. Good luck trying to run an Axe source program using the prgmPRGMNAME command.
Who here agrees with Calcdude84se that Illusiat 6, 11, 12 and Mana Force 1 are not pure-BASIC RPGs?
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ASM-Less! ASM-Less! They run in the interpreter without any help! ...
(I had another really annoying conversation today about what a certain word/phrase meant. Meh.)
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Hmm calm down please with the ! marks?
Also imho ASM-less BASIC programs would also be pure BASIC
pure BASIC means 100% BASIC. ASM-less means 0% ASM. If I6/11/12 are ASM-less but not 100% BASIC, then in what programming language is the rest?
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IMO the definition of a basic program is the same as how a calculator defines Basic programs. For the calculator, there is only Basic and Assembly. Hybrid arises when you mix the two types of programs, but besides that, Basic is basic, and assembly is assembly :) Thats how i see it.
(The lowercase argument is a good one. If a program uses a single lowercase letter, i dont think it should suddenly be not pure basic)
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I think Builderboy pretty much nailed it. If you want to advertise something as pure BASIC, it means simply that. =)
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Wow, I really opened a debate, as the poll says it's almost even. :) My opinion is if at run time only basic program(s) are run. I personally think you can use lowercase letters, hacked vars, and other characters not available without Asm. This is interesting and it shows the different opinions out there. :) Time for more debating... ;D
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Well my personal opinion is that pure-BASIC entails only what is accessible on the calculator without the aid of assembly libraries, hexadecimal code, and the such. Which to me means no extra variables, pictures and the such. Not necessarily the lowercase thing though because there are still ways to use some and tricks to getting them (but any that aren't attainable I would consider bridging the gap). So things like Peggle and Exodus I would consider pure-BASIC but something like Trapped or the Reuben Quest games I would consider non-pure-BASIC. Again, this is my personal opinion and I understand that others do have different opinions.
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I think pure-BASIC just means that the program runs entirely from an interpreter without any assembly, additional libraries, hex codes, or the like. So I would include using asm "helpers" to make your program as pure-BASIC. Otherwise, that's like saying a program isn't pure basic because it uses lowercase letters since those can't be typed without an assembly helper to enable that option. Just becasue you can't type it with the TI's keyboard doesn't mean it isn't pure.
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I think we have 2 distinct categories of pure BASIC. The one where ASM is not used in development and the other where it is.
As of lowercase letters, you can get help from pure, second category BASIC programs, but is the result considered pure first or second category?
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Wow, this is really sparking a lot of debate. I think I'll revise my definition of "Pure" to allow lowercase letters, greek characters, etc.
Yeah, I guess it's kind of ridiculous to say those versions of Illusiat aren't pure BASIC.
(* calcdude apologizes for getting over-excited earlier. :-[)