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General Discussion => Technology and Development => Computer Programming => Topic started by: AngelFish on April 28, 2011, 09:31:31 am

Title: Linux Help
Post by: AngelFish on April 28, 2011, 09:31:31 am

After a lot of trouble, I've finally managed to get Linux to install on my computer. However, I've noticed some problems with it. Perhaps the worst are those related to authentication: Essentially, everything about authentication and sudo is bugged for me. For example, when installing certain plugins, authentication is required to install. I can type in the password and it will accept it, but the text boxes close and the "next" and "Cancel" buttons simply stop workng . The only buttons that do work are the minimize, maximize, and close window buttons. It's even worse with sudo from the terminal, since that won't let me even type in the password to verify.

This is for Ubuntu 10.10, brand new, almost nothing on it.
Any suggestions?

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: Munchor on April 28, 2011, 09:37:32 am

This doesn't happen for me neither in Ubuntu 10.04, nor Ubuntu 10.10 nor Ubuntu 11. I don't recommend updating to Ubuntu 11 for several reasons by the way.

When you do something like this:

Code: [Select]

sudo apt-get install google-chrome-stable
You can't enter your password to confirm? Oh my, that's terrible.

However, I have no idea of what can be causing it, try other desktops (go to the login user again and try other kinds of Ubuntu desktops and see if it persists).

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: AngelFish on April 28, 2011, 09:53:44 am

Thanks for the help scout, but I think I'm just going to delete Ubuntu. I tried playing around with the login screen and tried "safe mode," where my old friend the non-working button showed up again and refused to let me get out of safe mode. If I'm going to spend >3 hours just trying to get the OS to do basic things like download software, then it's effectively useless to me. Linux is nice, but I'd rather have an OS that doesn't fight with me [as much].

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: Munchor on April 28, 2011, 09:55:20 am

Quote from: Qwerty.55 on April 28, 2011, 09:53:44 am

Thanks for the help scout, but I think I'm just going to delete Ubuntu. I tried playing around with the login screen and tried "safe mode," where my old friend the non-working button showed up again and refused to let me get out of safe mode. If I'm going to spend >3 hours just trying to get the OS to do basic things like download software, then it's effectively useless to me. Linux is nice, but I'd rather have an OS that doesn't fight with me [as much].

You can't judge Linux by using Ubuntu, I highly recommend you to try other Linux distros too. Personally, I tried Ubuntu, loved it and use it now, but I think trying more distros is very important.

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: AngelFish on April 28, 2011, 09:58:27 am

Ubuntu is the *easiest* Linux to use...

If I couldn't get that working, then how could I get something more difficult working? Plus, other distros tend to emphasize the terminal, which is exactly what I don't want to deal with.

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: Munchor on April 28, 2011, 10:00:06 am

It's so easy to install software, it really is very easy. There are two ways of doing it, through the Easy Software Installer and through the Terminal. You can also download software and install it (.deb packages).

You can also try Ubuntu 10.04, probably more stable.

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: Eeems on April 28, 2011, 11:55:21 am

Quote from: Qwerty.55 on April 28, 2011, 09:58:27 am

Ubuntu is the *easiest* Linux to use...

You could try a Ubuntu variant like Linux Mint, it adds on top of Ubuntu and makes things easier.

You might want to try an older stabler version of Ubuntu like Scout suggested. I'm just as confused as you on why the next button wont work, It might be an error with your specific build that nobody noticed?

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: alberthrocks on April 28, 2011, 03:14:19 pm

Quote from: Qwerty.55 on April 28, 2011, 09:58:27 am

Ubuntu is the *easiest* Linux to use...

That's a dirty lie. Their OS loves to crash, and with today's release of 11.04, I'm pretty sure the tables will turn with people rapidly switching to Linux Mint. (At least as indicated on distrowatch.com, anyway.) :P

The issue with you is that you might be a bit click-happy, and when you're installing a plugin, you click out of the install dialog, and won't see it ever again until it finishes. I'm thinking you also halted the install too by force quitting it, which may cause more little issues here and there. This is a bug that those guys probably don't care about fixing either - the install window needs to be an "always on top" window, at least with firefox in focus.

The other option for you is Linux Mint. I would consider this one MUCH easier to use, considering that they preinstall Flash, Java, VLC, and other libraries and utilities missing from the default Ubuntu install.

Spoiler For Linux Mint Guide/Install Instructions:

The website of Linux Mint contains many versions (unlike how Ubuntu does multiple domains/subdomains per edition, which imo is the ONLY thing they do right :P), so I'm pointing you directly to this link: http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

Take the DVD version, choose either 32-bit or 64-bit (this depends on your computer, don't just randomly pick, if you don't know, choose 32-bit to be safe) and "burn" it on a USB drive with http://www.pendrivelinux.com/universal-usb-installer-easy-as-1-2-3/.

Using that tool, first put a flash drive in. Then open it and accept the license agreement, then choose Linux Mint 10, and browse for the ISO. Finally, choose the flash drive LETTER, then click Create to make it work. ;) Voila! Now you can experiment with this one as well! ;) (If you are installing Linux Mint on a flash drive, "burn" it on a flash drive that you will NOT use for the installation.)

And of course, if you prefer DVDs, just burn it on there. ;)
Alternatively, you can just burn a CD version instead and click one button to convert it to a "full" version.
Then simply boot it and install! :D

The interface mimics Windows, but I should warn that the menu may seem a bit strange. It offers... a different perspective on the Windows 7 menu, and combines a bit of Mac OS X into it too. You'll know what I mean when you see it. ;)

Now, since you are new to Linux, let me tell you what it can and can't do:
1. It can have Java, Flash, Moonlight (Silverlight for Linux, made by Mono), and direct media playing plugins.
2. It can browse Facebook, Hulu, Youtube, CNN, Omnimaga, Cemetech, and pretty much almost every website with ease. You have the option of Firefox (default), Chrome, or Opera. IE is also available if you really miss it. :P
3. It can NOT do Netflix instant play (or any other SilverLight based web streaming) due to the missing DRM implementation. Regular Netflix requesting will still work, and streaming to external devices too (duh).
4. It can NOT run Shockwave - some online websites/games require it. You can attempt to bypass this limitation with #5.
5. You can (barely) run Windows programs or emulate a full Windows XP/Vista/7 system. For the first method called WINE, I say barely as in if you decide to take the latest programs, it may or may not work. (YMMV, basically.) For Shockwave, my method is to install the Windows version of FF with WINE, and then install Shockwave from there. At the same time, you can emulate a full OS with VirtualBox. As such, it requires a lot more resources, and you will need a Windows install disk to make it work. For both, you can run a limited set of games, including 3D ones. Just don't try running Crysis though. :P
6. You can do IRC with XChat.
7. You can upload files via FTP with Filezilla (not installed by default, but easily installed via package manager).
8. ??? (Feel free to ask questions! ;))

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: Eeems on April 28, 2011, 03:26:50 pm

Well written tutorial albert!
One small addition to number 7. You can also mount FTP/SFTP as a drive through the default file manager (nautilus) which makes it much easier to manage the files etc :)

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: AngelFish on April 28, 2011, 04:41:29 pm

Quote from: alberthrocks on April 28, 2011, 03:14:19 pm

The issue with you is that you might be a bit click-happy, and when you're installing a plugin, you click out of the install dialog, and won't see it ever again until it finishes. I'm thinking you also halted the install too by force quitting it, which may cause more little issues here and there. This is a bug that those guys probably don't care about fixing either - the install window needs to be an "always on top" window, at least with firefox in focus.

Wow, that's an issue? Seems like a rather important thing to fix, considering that OSes are meant to multi-task...

Anyway, thanks for the tutorial. I'll give Mint a try :)

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: Juju on April 28, 2011, 06:51:47 pm

Quote from: Qwerty.55 on April 28, 2011, 09:31:31 am

It's even worse with sudo from the terminal, since that won't let me even type in the password to verify.

It's normal. Nothing shows up when you type your password, not even *'s. That's a security feature, I guess, so people behind you won't be able to know how long is your password.

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: miotatsu on April 28, 2011, 07:11:18 pm

Quote

6. You can do IRC with XChat.

don't forget about irssi or chatzilla! :)

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: alberthrocks on April 28, 2011, 10:44:31 pm

Quote from: Eeems on April 28, 2011, 03:26:50 pm

Well written tutorial albert!
One small addition to number 7. You can also mount FTP/SFTP as a drive through the default file manager (nautilus) which makes it much easier to manage the files etc :)

Thanks! :) I consider this to be the worst of my tutorials, considering that it contains too much smilies and was written hastely in 10 minutes... :P

As for that suggestion, I was wondering where you could do that... O_O I initially thought that it was a CLI thing, but then you mentioned Nautilus, so I went to find it. I first went into the network folder, clicked randomly (both left and right), then peeked at the menu.... and voila, File > Connect to Server (take note, Qwerty!) is the one! :D This feature would've save me tons of time SFTPing back and forth files from my server!

Apparently, this is so obscure that the Linux Mint devs missed it! O_O They've made their own little tool called Upload Manager (mintUpload), which lets you set up accounts, and then in your taskbar you can load an account, which will open a little window. (Really, really small window.) You can drag files to that box, and it will instantly upload it. Obviously, there's lots of flaws to that design, but I thought it was pretty neat. Now, seeing that Nautilus has this feature but even better - you can even edit files directly as long as you maintain a live connection!! O_O_O Now if only GNOME would expose that more besides an obscure menu... :P

Oh, and I accidentally downrated you by trying to click the Quote button, so I rated you up. Consider it my token of appreciation, amplified with an uprate. :P
/me wishes there was a neutral button to undo accidental ratedowns/ups... :P

Quote from: Qwerty.55 on April 28, 2011, 04:41:29 pm

Wow, that's an issue? Seems like a rather important thing to fix, considering that OSes are meant to multi-task...

Anyway, thanks for the tutorial. I'll give Mint a try :)

Yeah, Ubuntu's idea of "fixing bugs" is to create a fancy, useless GUI to disguise any system bugs. Isn't that nice?  ::)
Hopefully the community backlash of the new 11.04 release will teach them. If not, I guess the positions for Ubuntu and Linux Mint will flip flop on Distrowatch. ;)

Quote from: miotatsu on April 28, 2011, 07:11:18 pm

Quote

6. You can do IRC with XChat.

don't forget about irssi or chatzilla! :)

Irssi? Really? He doesn't even know that typing a password in a terminal is blind, and you think he's going to be happy using that? :P
Chatzilla is OK I suppose, although it's confined within a browser. Theoretically speaking, XChat is like mIRC for Linux, just a tad bit trickier to use and customize.

To qwerty: XChat is located under the Internet section. One minor change that I would advise is to go into Settings > Preferences, under Interface, Channel Switcher, and check "Open an extra tab for server messages". This lets you distinguish between networks, and makes more sense visually (at least for me).

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: Eeems on April 29, 2011, 12:02:32 am

Quote from: alberthrocks on April 28, 2011, 10:44:31 pm

you can even edit files directly as long as you maintain a live connection!! O_O_O

I use that all the time :P

Quote from: alberthrocks on April 28, 2011, 10:44:31 pm

Oh, and I accidentally downrated you by trying to click the Quote button, so I rated you up. Consider it my token of appreciation, amplified with an uprate. :P
/me wishes there was a neutral button to undo accidental ratedowns/ups... :P

Thanks :)
Actually clicking on the same button twice undo's it :)

Quote from: alberthrocks on April 28, 2011, 10:44:31 pm

Chatzilla is OK I suppose, although it's confined within a browser. Theoretically speaking, XChat is like mIRC for Linux, just a tad bit trickier to use and customize.

I personally love Chatzilla :P

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: AngelFish on May 01, 2011, 12:14:55 am

Linux mint has almost all of the same problems as Ubuntu. I can use general services, but Sudo still doesn't work.

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: shmibs on May 01, 2011, 01:28:46 am

that's because linux mint "is" ubuntu (as in, it's derived from ubuntu). the issue is probably something related to your hardware not being supported properly. what are you running this on?
and what exactly do you mean by the "the text boxes close and the "next" and "Cancel" buttons simply stop workng "? what you should be seeing is a window which, depending on what you're trying to authenticate, either shows up on the screen with a minimize/resize/exit window bar that is always on top or a splash that is centred in the middle of the screen and darkens/disallows access to the rest of the desktop until you either select continue or cancel. for either of these, typing in your password and hitting enter (or pressing the button that is not cancel, as the text on the other varies according to the task being carried out) should make the window close and the task you were trying to carry out continue as it was.
as for the password on echoing in terminal, that's standard for -nix in general.

if you're really having trouble there are plenty of different distro's in the sea. distrowatch (http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major) like albert mentioned, is a great place to find alternatives. as a general rule, you should always search online to find other people's experiences when installing a distro on your particular hardware to find out beforehand if there are any major problems.

as for ubuntu being buggy, i've been using it for a while now and have encountered a sum total of two buggy situations, neither of which caused the machine to crash and both were easily fixable through rebooting. i've screwed myself over when messing around plenty of times, but that's always entirely my own fault and is almost always fixable via online help, either through posts from days long gone or, if none exist, new threads in support forums. after having run both mac and windows software on this same machine before switching to ubuntu, i'm very happy with the additional freedoms, even if they include the freedom to break EVERYTHING XD, and i've actually had a much more bug free experience.

Title: Re: Linux Help
Post by: AngelFish on May 04, 2011, 02:11:01 am

Okay, turns out the entire problem was, surprise, the user n00bishness. I didn't know Sudo wouldn't display the password as you typed it...

Thanks for the