Omnimaga
Calculator Community => HP Calculators => Topic started by: TIfanx1999 on February 18, 2008, 10:52:00 pm
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I was in Circuit city earlier today looking at the calculators and this happened to catch my eye. Upon closer inspection I found out that this was a fairly expensive calculator that supported CAS... just like the TI-89. However... this thing is a beast compared to the TI-89 . It has 512k user ram and 2MB archive (no big deal here)but, this sucker has an SD card slot . That is crazy. Like the TI-89 Titanium it also has mini usb, but it also has infared data transfer. How cool is that? Also, while the TI-89 has a 12 MHZ motoralla processor this thing packs a 75 MHZ ARM . This thing retails at 150 USD which is also the same as the TI-89 Titanium. This thing is drop dead sexy, so my question is why don't more people own these ? I'm considering getting one myself. Thoughts?
*edit* (131x80) b&w display vs. TI-89 (160x100) b&w display. So the display is smaller than the TI-89 but larger than that of the TI-86 (128x64) or the TI-83+family (96x64)
*edit*Programability: RPL,IPL,(forms of lisp, whatever that is)Hp BASIC,Saturn ASM(ASM that their older calcs use I believe),ARM ASM. hpgcc.org (http://www.hpgcc.org/) Yes, it supports C also.
Also has a built in clock function with alarms. Can be powered by battery or USB.
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because ti wins in it's user interface, when you buy a ti calculator you ain't buying the hardware you are buying the software that kicks hp and casios butt.
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By software do you mean user created software, or the TI-OS vs the HP-OS ? TI is easy to use, and I havent ever used a HP. I don't know how their OS is setup or how easy to use it is.
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HPs are harder to use, same for casio IIRC. Also the processor on Hp calcs is slowed down to something like TI speed, altough in ASM people can speed it up. It must eat batteries darn quick though.
If it's not why, then there must be another reason why so few people program for and use those. Even the Casio community is more active than the HP one (the only HP forum I ever seen has like 300 posts and Idk if it still even exists at all since the admin retired). Even the Casio community is more acitve, altough much less than the TI community.
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TI is supported by most school systems in the country iirc.
With that much hardware power, I'm surprised some kids haven't figured out a way to get HPs to play games, or maybe I'm wrong.
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@Liazon: well...
Hpcalc.org (http://www.hpcalc.org/)
Update the first post with more info as well. :)
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That's prbly the most active HP forums I could find:
http://jacques-laporte.org/forum/ (http://jacques-laporte.org/forum/)
http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi (http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/forum.cgi)
http://www.expansys.fr/f.aspx?i=139834 (http://www.expansys.fr/f.aspx?i=139834)
http://www.hp-network.com/forum/list.php?f=1 (http://www.hp-network.com/forum/list.php?f=1)
there is also a Usenet group at http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.hp48/topics (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.hp48/topics)
It has nearly 60000 topics, but it's because it has been around for 16.5 years. Half of the Omnimaga regulars weren't even born when it started. http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.hp48/browse_thread/thread/1d7bb21964ef5871 (http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.hp48/browse_thread/thread/1d7bb21964ef5871)
Most places are now calc help and support though. You may get some luck finding programmers in the Usenet newsgroup but I don't think there are much anymore because games on all sites I could find date back in 200-2001. For HP 49/50 series there are newer ones but they are still 2 or 3 years old.
There are a few of them avaliable in Omnimaga RPG section
As for the Casio community I just looked and it seems to have picked up a bit in the past 2 years, altough still a bit quiet:
http://www.planet-casio.com/Fr/forums/ (http://www.planet-casio.com/Fr/forums/)
http://www.planete-casio.com/forum/ (http://www.planete-casio.com/forum/)
http://www.casioexpert.com/forum/index.php (http://www.casioexpert.com/forum/index.php)
http://www.graph100.com/forum/ (http://www.graph100.com/forum/)
http://casiokingdom.org/modules.php?name=Forums (http://casiokingdom.org/modules.php?name=Forums)
http://www.casiocalc.org/ (http://www.casiocalc.org/)
The activity and the opening of new forums that succeed well could be because of Casioland.net shut down and that the Graph 100 forum (4th one in the list) is no longer really active though
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Get it if you really think it will be worth the money. HP and Casio make some pretty good calculators, and in terms of hardware, they are generally better than TI's. But do you really need it? Are there some programs for it that you really want to try? Do you plan to program for it? If so, note that you'd be programming for a much smaller user base (and, in turn, there are probably less programs available for it).
I mean, yes, it's cool, it has good hardware and an SD card slot, but think about if you going to actually use it, or just let it sit around and admire it on occasion. Whatever TI calculator you have - I'm guessing a TI-83+ or TI-84+ - can probably do whatever you need to do (and if not, then there's always the TI-89/TI-92+/Voyage 200 series, and now the TI-Nspire CAS too) and you're more familiar with it.
Also, if you still insist on buying a new calculator particularly because of its hardware, I suggest you take a look at other calculators too, such as the Casio ClassPad 330 (http://www.casio.com/products/Calculators_&_Dictionaries/Graphing/ClassPad330/) and those in the Casio fx-9860 series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CASIO_fx-9860G_Series), and also take a good look at the Casio fx-9860 Slim (http://www.casio.com/products/Calculators_&_Dictionaries/Graphing/FX-9860GSlim/). And then, of course, there is the TI-Nspire (CAS).
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I'm looking at it mainly from a programming standpoint. As far as TI's go I have the 83+ BE, 83+ SE, 86, and the 89. Unfortunatley there does not seem to be a whole lot of information available on the HP's, so that makes me wary. I havent checked into casios yet, but I think I will. My internet is acting rather funky tonight though. :( The Nspire (CAS) looks extremley sexy, but as of yet you cant do alot with it so I'm gonna wait on that one to see what develops.
*edit* Looked into casios, they don't hold any intrest for me. For the 9860 series the screen rez is only slightly larger than that of the ti-86, and the processor is sligtly under 15 MHZ. The Class pad doesnt intrest me at all, as the res is much taller than it is wide, and I just don't care for the design. I can't even find specs for the processor speed on the class pad.
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Also Casio BASIC is apparently MUCH slower than on TIs from what Casio guys told me back in the EPS days, and since most people prefer to use BASIC due to it being easier it draws people away from Casio calcs. I wonder how fast is BASIC on HP calcs (if there is such language on them)?
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I'm sure there Is but it is most likely just as slow. There is a reason no third party os's have had parser yet, its because they are very difficult to make and they take a lot of work and most likely ti's parser would still win.
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@Omnimaga: HP's have built in HP BASIC, but if I had to guess I'd say it's their old BASIC being emulated on the ARM processor. One of the two types of ASM it supports(saturn ASM) is emulated and I assume that the BASIC that runs on there is emulated as well. Don't quote me on it though. From what I've read though everything runs faster on the HP 50G than it's early predecessor, (the 48G) so despite the emulation (again I'm not entirely sure about this) it should run fairly fast. In regards to how their BASIC language is sturctured or how advanced it is I'm not sure. I'm still looking into it. =) I will update the first post as I find more info.
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Too bad they don't sell this calc here :(
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You mentioned ti supported Lisp :):):):) Just for info lisp was one of the first interpreted programing languages. Most interpreted lauanges today own most of their structure and power to lisp.
Oh and how much do these bad boys run his is really starting to sound interesting.
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*edit* Looked into casios, they don't hold any intrest for me. For the 9860 series the screen rez is only slightly larger than that of the ti-86, and the processor is sligtly under 15 MHZ. The Class pad doesnt intrest me at all, as the res is much taller than it is wide, and I just don't care for the design. I can't even find specs for the processor speed on the class pad.
If I remember correctly, kucalc had a very helpful post on the old Omnimaga forums that said that the Fx-9860 could be over clocked to over 70MHz or something like that. In addition, I think the Classpad and the FX-9860 series can be programmed in C.
Also, check out these calculator benchmarks (http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=700) (it's no surprise that they're on an HP website).
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Meh that chart just confused me How baout a chart full of the stats of each calc like ccock speed and display resolution and programing capibilitys.
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@ TheStorm Suggested retail is $150, about the same as the TI-89. Though looking online I've seen anywhere from $119 at amazon.com - $150 elsewhere . Havent checked Ebay yet. I'll post some side-by side stats later for the HP 50G in comparison to the TI-89 Titanium. Are there any other calcs I should include?
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the nspire and maybe the best casio.
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It is all about user base, more people working on TIs than HPs...Schools have a greater standard with TIs being in the classrooms, therefore more people to play the games :)
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i luv the AMS interface on the 68ks, though I find myself gaming on my calc more often.
oh ya, does casio/hp make viewscreens like TI for overhead projectors? maybe that's another reason why schools prefer TI. you can easily show kids how to use their calcs for stuff other than games on the white board.
edit:
I think all the calcs are pretty good, though when making games, I think I'd like to be able to share it, so user base is big.
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------TI- Nspire---------------Casio Classpad 33----------------Casio9850FX/Slim----------------HP50G
CPU:150MHZ ARM---------NO INFO AVALIBLE -----------------Super H 3 14.75MHZ-------------75MHZ ARM
MEM:16MB RAM------------500KB RAM-----------------------------64KB RAM---------------------------512KB RAM
20MB FLASH----------------5.4MB FLASH--------------------------1.5MB FLASH-----------------------2MB FLASH
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------SD slot up to 1GB-----------------SD slot up to 2GB
Res:240x320 grayscale-160x240 black and white------------128x64 black and white--------131x80 black and white
COM:Linkport/Mini USB--USB port---------------------------------USB/Serial I/O--------------------USB,Infared(2 units),serial
Prgm:Inspire BASIC-----BASIC,LUA,C++,ASM------------------BASIC,ASM,GCC(C)------------HP BASIC,Reverse Polish notation LISP,----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Sys LISP, Saturn ASM, ARM ASM,HPGCC(C)
MSR:$149.99-------------$149.99------------------------------------$79.99/$99.99-------------------$149.99
Misc. Info:
In additon to a key pad the casio class pad 330 has a touch screen, and yes it is 160x240 res .
Hp 50 G Also has a clock function with alarms. Reverse Polish Notation(RPN) LISP is a combination of Reverse polish notation and the LISP programming language. RPN is not a language, just a format for putting in equations (as far as I know).
Nspire's Basic is extremly basic right now, no way to detect key presses yet, disp is the only command that can display stuff.
This took a while to compile, so I hope it is useful. :)
-ART
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keep in mind the Nspire is two calculators in one too (it has 84+ integrated)
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Looks like TI actually did some good this time ;)
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Or you can get the nspire cas which has more math power but it doesn't have the 84 keypad. they just need more programing capibilty and they will pwn hp and casio.
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o.o seriously, with those specs, they seriously need to open it up to the community.
just wondering, how does the grayscale look on the nspire? is it actually used for anything like antialiasing or is everything still b/w in the menus?
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Yeah this line on ti's website scares me
Quickly and easily prepare TI-Nspire and TI-Nspire CAS handhelds for test day. Educators can simply press a reset button located on the back of each unit.
and from what I can see more of the menus are in b&w but they may use the grayscale in other areas.
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When and if programming is opened on it, that will be disabled I hope (probably not possible unless a open case mod)...
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or if we do get programing they might be stupid and allow for something as easy as a program that intercepts it and displays the mem cleared message.
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By software do you mean user created software, or the TI-OS vs the HP-OS ? TI is easy to use, and I havent ever used a HP. I don't know how their OS is setup or how easy to use it is.
I have a Casio. It is hell to use.