Omnimaga
Calculator Community => Discontinued => Major Community Projects => S.A.D. (Seek and Destroy) => Topic started by: Hot_Dog on July 05, 2010, 11:34:53 am
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This is a discussion/development area for the Ptaloid race (but since priority goes to S.A.D. iteslf, you won't find, say, one update every two days or so). You'll find out in the manual and story-setting information that the humans and Ptaloids are complete allies around the time of S.A.D.
The Ptaloids are big on cloaking technology. Of course, this means they have the Balkstone (which was their invention), but a few of their buildings and many of their units can cloak as well.
Ptaloid ships and buildings heal themselves over time. In addition, all buildings can increase their HP for a price, and culmulitivly. The strategy here is that you can upgrade buildings in strategic areas, but you lose money if you do it incorrectly when your opponent chooses to attack something else.
Most Ptaloid ships have relatively light armor and weak weapons. There are about 3 that are able to stand by themselves against other ships, but most require "swarming" in an unofficial sense of the word. The Ptaloids are the only race where one can add many of the same unit--and only the same unit--together in a group. These units are joined together, combining weapons and armor. This means that you're really fighting "one" unit rather than a bunch. All in all, the player can make his group of ships as powerful/expensive or as weak/cheap as he wants. Balkstones and 2 other units are not capable of this.
Ptaloid buildings must be placed next to each other. If a ptaloid building is left by itself, with the exception of defense and "Operation" Centers, it will not operate. Power generators are also required to be next to a least one of these "chained" buildings.
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Can buildings be upgraded forever? Or is there a level cap for upgrades (like in SC default settings, upgrades max level was 3)
I like the race so far. This one seems a bit close to the Zergs in some ways, but futuristic of course.
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Can buildings be upgraded forever? Or is there a level cap for upgrades (like in SC default settings, upgrades max level was 3)
I like the race so far. This one seems a bit close to the Zergs in some ways, but futuristic of course.
Actually, I borrowed ideas from both the zerg and the protoss, since Ptaloids are insect-like. Cloaking was entirely a brand new idea, as well as requiring structures to be built as chained buildings. I was thinking of having shields, but felt that was too protoss-like, and shields would also be too hard on the engine.
I'm debating about the buildings being upgraded forever, although there is of course a limit of 65535 :) But it's only the HP that gets upgraded on the buildings, so with money being involved, I don't see any imbalances
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I don't exactly remember, but wasn't chaining building how the first Command and Conquer worked? Maybe my memory is bad, but I recall not being able to build stuff too far from my completed buildings in that game.
And yeah make sure if you make upgrades unlimited, that it won't go unbalanced or reach extents where a building is nearly invincible, causing the game to end up in a draw :P
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I don't exactly remember, but wasn't chaining building how the first Command and Conquer worked? Maybe my memory is bad, but I recall not being able to build stuff too far from my completed buildings in that game.
And yeah make sure if you make upgrades unlimited, that it won't go unbalanced or reach extents where a building is nearly invincible, causing the game to end up in a draw :P
You're probably right about Command and Conquer. I never played that game, so what I meant by was, I didn't intentionally borrow the idea from anyone.
About invicibility, I'll watch out for that. But if one player spends constant money on upgrading a building to the point of invincibility, the other player will most likely win. This is partially because Ptaloids don't have a form of "Universal Defense."
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Well I think it is better to stay a bit close to other RTSes in some ways, since people who played them will get used to your game much easier, not to mention it's cool to see some of those ideas on calc.
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CREEPER
Role: Scout, Construction Worker
Cost: Free
Health Points: 30
Damage Per Second: None
Weapon Range: N/A
Speed: 15
Fuel Capacity: 180
Sephrane Gas Capacity: 60
Rate of Overheat: 6 per second
The Creeper is capable of constructing structures and scouting, just like any other races' beginning units. However, the Creeper cannot attack anything and requires fuel. On the other side of the coin, the Creeper can be upgraded to bepermanently cloaked. The cloak requires absolutely no sephrane gas. However, the Creeper cannot attack when cloaked, so the player must turn the cloak on and off appropriately.
Thorax Thrusters: This is a Deterorating Upgrade, not a permanent upgrade. It allows a Creeper to hover, flying in a similar manner to a Scouter. It also gives the Creeper twice its normal speed. A Creeper can create structures while it is hovering.
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looks nice ^^
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PROTAR
Role: Ground-Based Assault
Cost: 12 Belthium Crystals Each (Can Be Swarmed)
Health Points: 15 per Protar
Damage Per Second: 1 for Ground Units
Weapon Range: Melee
Speed: 20
Fuel Capacity: N/A
Sephrane Gas Capacity: 20 for all Protar put together
Rate of Overheat: 1 HP per second per Protar
Because most units during the Tosonian War involved ships with ranged weapons, the Ptaloids have only two weapons pertaining to live Ptaloid soldiers. The Protar is one of them.
The Protar organization was developed by Zhas for the good of the Ptaloid race. They are the "FBI", "Section 31", "Dark Templar", etc. of the Ptaloid race, doing the underground work and "dirty work" of the Ptaloids. They are, however, sworn to an oath to uphold the principles of justice and honor, and thus few individual beings in the galaxy are bothered by the existence of the Protar order. In fact, many lives have been spared and many convicts proven innocent thanks to the Protar.
Because of the techniques used by the Protar to "stay hidden in the shadows," they entered the war effort as soldiers about 2 years before the Battle of Calsiah. In addition, many Ptaloids offered themselves to be trained as Protar simply for the war, instead of becoming war pilots.
Protar can be equipped with special cloaks that allow them to camouflage themselves. It is a permanent cloak that does not require sephrane gas. However, Protar, like Creepers, cannot attack while using their cloak.
With their entrance into the war, Protar were equipped with a special form of Sephrane Gas, which acts like a stim pack. Protar can temporarily gain a speed of 40 when the appropriate upgrade, Stimmed Adrenaline, is used. Considering that Protar have a melee attack rather than a ranged attack, Stimmed Adrenaline will automatically activate when a Protar or a group of Protar is in pursuit of another unit. It will deactivate when the Protar has "caught up," after which the Protar will resume their normal speed.
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Wow nice, I like the ideas so far. I'm glad you are also including some Starcraft stuff ^^
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PAUK
Role: Assault, Ranged Attack
Cost: 60 Belthium Crystals Each (Can Be Swarmed)
Health Points: 50 Per Pauk
Damage Per Second: 4 per second per pauk (1 per shot)
Weapon Range: Adjustable from 1 to 3
Speed: 15
Fuel Capacity: 1500 per Pauk
Sephrane Gas Capacity: N/A
Rate of Overheat: N/A
Eager to aid the Ptaloids against the misfortune that awaited them during the Tosonian War, the Russians invented this machine to aid in the attack of large bases. To help in distinguishing it from Earth vessels, the Ptaloids suggested that it be designed as a "bug," as some children from Earth would innocently call the Ptaloids. Hence, the Pauk resembles a spider, and indeed is the Russian word for "spider."
Pauks are primarily assault units, meant for attacking bases. They scatter 4 energy weapons per second around an area, and are thus best used for clumps of buildings. The player can adjust the range of the weapons to cover a smaller or wider area.
Pauks can attack other units if need be, but their slow speed means pursuit is not much of an option. In addition, Pauks cannot attack air units.
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That sounds really neat :) Do you already have the sprites made or just ideas?
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That sounds really neat :) Do you already have the sprites made or just ideas?
Just ideas, with some pictures. Once the engine is done, the sprites and the code aren't going to be hard to do. (I've been working hard to make the engine flexible.) However, trying to come up with unique races--rather than different looking races with similar statistics--is taking me a while, which is why I'm not waiting to work on them.
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GALBONIAN
Role: Anti-Air, Gunship, Anti-Operation Center
Cost: 25 Belthium Crystals Each (Can Be Swarmed)
Health Points: 25 Per Galbonian
Damage Per Second: 1 per second per Galbonian
Weapon Range: 3
Speed: 25
Fuel Capacity: N/A
Sephrane Gas Capacity: N/A
Rate of Overheat: N/A
Galbonians are not "bees," although they used to be. Ptaloids who visited Earth and tasted honey found they had an inner craving for it, and so crates of bees were sent to the planet Coranas. The Ptaloids attempted to create an environment that the honey bees could live in. In addition, they found that they could tame bees and keep them as domestic pets.
Unfortunately, war affects everything, and the bees' environment on Coranas was destroyed. Like many creatures, they had to adapt, and did so by living off of the Ptaloids and their world. By the time the situation was under control 60 years later, the bees had adapted to become gigantic killers with the rage of hornets. They are now kept in transport vessels, released only when needed in war, after which their temper matches that of a wounded Hydralisk. These "Galbonians" have wreaked havock on several Tosonian bases, proving to be valuable for anti-air, such as with Tosonian Buildings.
Plasma Torpedoes: Classified (Used to attack Operation Centers. Galbonians can have 10 plasma torpedoes TOTAL, no matter whether you are attacking with 1 or 15 Galbonians)
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GENERATOR
Cost: 50, plus 20 for every 10 additional HP
HP: 30
The Generator is used to power adjucent buildings. The only Ptaloid buildings that don't require generators are defense buildings, "Operation Centers," and refineries.
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As said on MSN the other day, nice again :)
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CELESTIAL TEMPLE
Dzhanus was not a being who chose to keep himself away from his created ones. But since he was not omnipresent, it was impossible for him to be with everyone physically.
Though Dzhanus was the father of both the Ptaloids and the Tosonians, it was the Ptaloids who were the most eager to see him. In order to see as many as possible before recharging his "soul," he showed the Ptaloids how to create temples that would allow him to warp from Temple to Temple as needed. These temples have been long thought of by humans as religious gathering places, even though Dzhanus is a father and not a god.
Soon after Dzhanus disappeared into silence, the Celestial Temple lost its significance as a place for community. It became a center where Ptaloids and ships could be warped in and out when necessary. Although the structure and the name remain the same, its original purpose is but a memory. Nowadays, the Celestial Temple is the equivalent of a Terran Operation Center. It allows one to exchange, repair, and refuel units.
WARP TUNNEL
The Warp Tunnel is the Ptaloid equivalent of the Transformation Gateway, a much cheaper (yet weaker) form of the Operation Center \ Celestial Temple.
EDIT: Warp Tunnels require generators to operate.
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Gotta love those buildings :) (With zerg, I sometimes attacked zerg opponents by moving an overlord near their base and creating the end of a nydus canal, then sending my army in there. Now with SC2 we can make overlord generate creep so you can put the nydus canal somewhere else where the enemy won't notice. :P
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(With zerg, I sometimes attacked zerg opponents by moving an overlord near their base and creating the end of a nydus canal, then sending my army in there. Now with SC2 we can make overlord generate creep so you can put the nydus canal somewhere else where the enemy won't notice.
Fascinating, just like I strategy I watched where someone built a proxy pylon out of sight (but right in front of an enemy's secondary base)
JAVILIN
The Javilin is the Ptaloid's only defensive structure. It is slightly expensive, with a smaller amount of HP than the average defensive structure in S.A.D. However, it is a detector, AA defense, and Point Defense all-in-one. And last but not least, the Javilin is permanently cloaked.
EDIT: Like most Ptaloid buildings, Javilins must be powered.
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Yeah, sometimes Terran will also build a barrack inside the enemy base while the enemy is guarding the entrance
I like the Javlin idea, especially the cloaking. Seems like it will be a powerful structure :)
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I like the Javlin idea, especially the cloaking. Seems like it will be a powerful structure
Powerful? Yes.
Too much of an advantage? (Not that anybody asked) Not really, because once a player knows where the firing is coming from, he can grab a long-range unit and fire manually, and the Javelin is toast. This is one reason that a player who uses manual attacking as opposed to only-automatic-attacking will usually win.
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Oh it will be possible to attack cloaked units/buildings? That's cool. I was kinda annoyed at SC how we couldn't attack invisible units x.x
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Oh it will be possible to attack cloaked units/buildings? That's cool. I was kinda annoyed at SC how we couldn't attack invisible units x.x
Yep yep yep, it's possible! 8) It's just that detectors make things easier, and you have to attack cloaked units manually if they're not detected.
Of course part of the strategy against Protar is when their camoflauge cloakes are on, you can get slight ideas on where their position is by the "wrinkles" are. So even though you can't see them all the time, a careful player can notice their movement and fire at them.
I was annoyed about "not attacking cloaked units" in Starcraft as well. After all, realistically, including in the Star Trek movies, attacking cloaked units is very, very possible.
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What are wrinkles? Do you mean how the screen gets distorted slightly where they are, like in Starcraft 1 and 2? And yeah I agree it's more realistic.
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What are wrinkles? Do you mean how the screen gets distorted slightly where they are, like in Starcraft 1 and 2? And yeah I agree it's more realistic.
Wrinkles will show up as the wrinkles you see in clothing that hasn't been ironed. After all, the camofludge provided by Protar comes from the cloaks they where. Wrinkling is the same principle as how the screen gets distorted where a cloaked unit is, just different "looks". The wrinkles give the player a little bit more of an idea of where the protar is than a distroted screen does.
However, most cloaked units won't show up at all without detectors, meaning there won't even be a distorted screen or "wrinkles." In that case, a player can only tell where the unit is by watching the weapons that are fired. This is not hard if the cloaked unit that is just "sitting there" attacking, but a person who cloaks and attacks manually will be able to move in various directions while attacking, making it hard for the other player to find and target him.
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NATUILUS
Role: Anti-Unit
The Natuilus is a very strange Anti-Unit vessel, similar in some ways to the Science Vessel from the game Starcraft. It's major weapon is a phase cannon that cannot attack buildings. However, the Natuilus is provided with a few tricks up its sleeves to make its task easier. First, the Natuilus is a detector, and thus can see cloaked units. The Natuilus can also use a "Gas Combustion" weapon to do damage to the enemy equal to the amount of sephrane gas he has, at the cost of 25% of the damage being done to the Natuilus. Finally, the Natuilus can use "Oxygen Combustion" to damage a Tosonian group of ships by the amount of oxygen they cost, once again causing 25% damage to the Natuilus itself.
By the way, the Natuilus has a weak attack that will attack ALL enemy units in a group at once. Thus, the Natuilus is best used against groups of enemy units.
(Just a friendly reminder that some of this stuff may change during testing)
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NUCANA
The only nuclear weapon in S.A.D. (The manual will say that it's developed and used by the Protar) A player can use only one Nucana at a time, meaning the player can't use a whole group of Nucanas.
A nuclear weapon is purchased as a refillable upgrade (and does not need to be researched.) A Nucana can only hold one nuclear missile at a time, and it cannot move while the weapon is being produced. Nuclear missiles can be destroyed by AA.
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INFILTRATOR
My inspiration for this unit came from "Dark Templar Drops" and "Siege Tanks."
When making a cloaked assault, Protar are the best for ground-to-ground attacks, and Balkstones are the best air-to-ground (or air-to-air in the case of Tosonian buildings and flying units). The Infiltrator is used for special cloaked assaults, and thus must be used with care.
Infiltrators have 3 modes, two of which must be researched. The first mode is "flying mode," which must be researched. In this mode, Infiltrators move at high speeds but are unable to attack. They are also visible.
In the second mode, Siege Mode, Infiltrators have a powerful attack that can destroy a building in a single shot. Every shot costs the destruction of one Infiltrator, meaning that a player can destroy up to 10 buildings with 10 Infiltrators. Infiltrators are permanently cloaked in siege mode, and are also very slow.
The third mode is Sniper Mode, which must be researched. In Sniper Mode, Infiltrators are once again permanently cloaked and very slow. While their attack is somewhat weaker than most weapons, they have a range of 4, outranging anything except Universal Defense Systems. In Sniper Mode, Infiltrators can attack both air and ground units.
BALKSTONE
Since the Ptaloids were the inventor of the Balkstone, it is only fitting that they have this ship available to them. The cloaking device / booster engines must be researched, and the abilities require sephrane gas. While the Ptaloid Balkstone is more powerful than the human version, it can only fire forward, leaving Galbonians as a valuable alternative of air-to-ground.
PTERODACTYL
Pterodactyls are hovering ground units, though they can attack both air and ground. They are the "capital ship" of the Ptaloids, and can be equipped with Plasma Torpedoes.
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Cool Units! I can't promise anything but I think I should be able to finish the Xaos before the end of this week.
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YAY nukes!
Also nice work again. I like how your ships and units look like
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Cool Units! I can't promise anything but I think I should be able to finish the Xaos before the end of this week.
Awesome...how's the ce coming?
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Two new buildings. The Cloaking Field will cloak any buildings immediately next to it, and the Cloaking Field itself is cloaked. However, it requires its own power generator, and so it can cloak up to three other buildings besides the power generator it requires. The Scorpion is the Ptaloid's ACC.
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Wow nice. There are some cool stuff in there that were not available in Starcraft. It should make the game even more interesting strategy-wise ^^
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Wow nice. There are some cool stuff in there that were not available in Starcraft. It should make the game even more interesting strategy-wise ^^
I certainly can't wait to see what people end up doing when they test the multiplayer aspect. I really should consider adding the abilitiy to save replays for that purpose, but I have to see how that will go
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replay saving would be awesome actually. It could maybe make it easier for you to update the game for balancing if you notice some stuff is being abused too much or make the game too easy for a race in particular (like a Protoss Void Rays rush in Starcraft II)
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Saving replays?! o.o
How much memory would that take up!?
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Saving replays?! o.o
How much memory would that take up!?
I imagine a decent chunk of archive--like 15-30 KB--, but not a lot of RAM. I'm not going to care about replays when the game is released, but I'm really hoping people will record and send their games during multiplayer testing, as that will help with balancing. With such a great community, I don't think I will have much to fear. (REPLAYS WILL BE IMPLEMENTED UNLESS WORST COMES TO WORST.)
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Replays are actually a good idea for testing purposes. I don't recall, but is the game for all the 83+ models? Or is it going to require too much space to fit on a normal 83+?
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Replays are actually a good idea for testing purposes. I don't recall, but is the game for all the 83+ models? Or is it going to require too much space to fit on a normal 83+?
I'm almost positive that the full version will fit on a normal Ti-83+, but it will take several app pages. Therefore, I'm going to release a lite version for normal 83+ models, which will contain multiplayer, one or two races, and probably only custimized campaigns (not the built in one). This lite version is what I was originally going to release for all calculators until the game changed dramatically.
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Ah, that is good then. I'll be able to test multiplayer mode. :)
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Replay feature would also be cool if the game gets very popular and that people need tips on getting better. In the Starcraft community you can post replays of your games and people can give you advices and tell you what you did wrong.
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WALL
The Ptaloids are the only race to have walls. Walls can be built as blockades, slowing enemy movement. If they are next to generators or powered buildings (remember that most Ptaloid buildings must be next to each other with at least one generator for every chain of buildings), they will damage any unit that runs into them.
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QUARRY
The Quarry is the Ptaloid Refinery. The manual will comment that the Quarry builds actual "workers" rather than "processing nodes," even though both the Quarry and the Refinery function exactly the same way.
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Nice again. I like the wall idea. I liked how Command and Conquer had those, so it's nice to see some of your game races have walls.
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EYE OF DZHANUS
This building allows a Ptaloid player to build either Protar or Pauks. In addition, when the player has built a Galbonian Hive, the Eye of Dzhanus is used to research +1 attacks and +1 armor to ground units.
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Cool :D
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NURSERY
Normally, Ptaloid units can only be qued, and constructed one at a time like other moveable units. If a nursery is placed next to a construction building, a player can optionally build up to 3 Protar, Galbonians, Pauks, Balkstones, Natulius, Pterdactyls and Infiltrators at the same time, like spawning Zerg units. The only problem is, units cannot be qued. For example, a player can build up to three Protar for a building, but cannot, for instance, que an additional Galbonian for that particular building. That is why, even with a nursery attached, ordering multiple units built at once is optional.
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What does qued means?
Also I love that building, it reminds me a Barrack add-on in SC that lets you build 2 marines at once, although you can't train Firebats, reapers nor other special units, then.
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What does qued means?
Also I love that building, it reminds me a Barrack add-on in SC that lets you build 2 marines at once, although you can't train Firebats, reapers nor other special units, then.
Qued means you have a unit ready to be produced. A building can make only one unit at a time, but you can buy units early, and the building will make them as soon as it can. For instance in SC, a Barracks can only build one marine at a time, but you can que up to 5 marines, firebats, etc.
In S.A.D. you can que up to 3 units. Only one unit can be made at a time, but you can tell the building to make the next 2 as soon as it is able to. Like I said, a nursery will allow a Ptaloid player to spawn units at once as if they were zerg larvae.
Notice that I struck-out that last remark in my previous post, and what I mean is, like the zerg, you can have up to 3 DIFFERENT units produced at once. I thought the S.A.D. engine would not allow that, but I was mistaken.
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Oh ok, I am more used to the word Queued rather than Qued personally, which is why I didn't get it. Also nice to see we can have different units building at once. :D
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FORTRESS
The fortress produces Balkstones and Pterdactyls for the Ptaloid race. Only Balkstones can be produced immediately, Pterdactyls require a Galactic Hermotha.
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That looks really cool! ;D
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Looks really great!
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WEB
The Web allows construction of Pauks, and provides +1 upgrade options to air weapons and armor
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just asking, but which one will be stronger: Splitron or Pterdactyls?
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Nice. One thing I wonder is if it would be cool to generate some sort of creep or more web stuff around that building, which causes ground units that goes too close to move twice slower and air units to move twice slower while flying over the building?
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just asking, but which one will be stronger: Splitron or Pterdactyls?
Splitrons are stronger, with Pterdactyls being proportionally cheaper. However, Pterdatyls have the advantage of being ground-based vessels, meaning they can't be attacked by air-to-air units.
Nice. One thing I wonder is if it would be cool to generate some sort of creep or more web stuff around that building, which causes ground units that goes too close to move twice slower and air units to move twice slower while flying over the building?
Not a bad idea! I'll have to think about that one.
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Sorry that S.A.D. is still not being worked on yet, but after getting more and more obsessed with Zerg, I decided that--subject to balance testing--many Ptaloid units will have speed upgrades. In antcipation of a DJ question, there will be nothing like "creep" to make them move faster.
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Aah cool, I like how fast Zerg can be sometimes, it makes micro even more interesting. Glad you're considering speed upgrades for your game :D