Author Topic: Dear Omnimaga  (Read 5915 times)

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Offline Matrefeytontias

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Dear Omnimaga
« on: November 11, 2014, 04:27:42 pm »
To all Omnimaga members, regular and staff.

We offer to you the present petition as a terrain of discussion about the diverse problems that have been affecting Omnimaga lately, generally a noticeable faulty behavior from site administrators, and precisely about Eeems, owner of said statute.

After a session of thoughts sharing, we, Hayleia, aeTIos, DJ_Omnimaga, Juju, Keoni29, turiqwalrus, Sorunome, harold, Streetwalrus, matrefeytontias, feel that behavior adjustements are required in order to maintain the previously-ideal atmosphere of the Omnimaga community. We would like to bring to your consideration the following points :

- lately, Eeems has been modifying features of the site that could have bothered the user experience of Omnimaga members, and this without any prior consent from any member, and in this case with the explicit disagreement of a support staff : http://chat.eeems.ca:9003/?server=irc.omnimaga.org%206667&channel=omnimaga&date=Thu%20Nov%2006%202014#1415302519917
- in similar situations, Eeems said having the right to perform such modifications as he is the one paying for the hosting of the site. While we all thank him for this, this fact shouldn't become an excuse for making alone decisions that could affect greatly, and in any way, user experience.
- the co-owner group now only contains Eeems and geekboy, when it used to include way more people like rcfreak0 and Netham45 (the latter holding the full legal rights on the domain, as shown when entering "omnimaga.org" as a domain name here : http://whois.pir.org/). If it was the result of group reorganization, no Omnimaga user was notified of such action unlike the news item located here says it would happen : http://www.omnimaga.org/news/the-status-of-our-staffing-and-the-changes-that-are-being-made/
- despite Omnimaga being meant to be a friendly place of interest sharing, free speech, and overall amusement, we feel that Eeems treats it too much like a professional responsibility, thus harming the enjoyment of members.
- the Omnimaga IRC chat has been made by Netham45 then Sorunome to be a free place of discussion. In our opinion, Eeems has proven irrelevant over-restrictiveness several times. We feel that he has been forcing people to join a different channel to carry discussions about certain topics he doesn't like, while there is no topic restriction for the #omnimaga channel.

Overall, we think that Eeems should prove more humble behavior, both towards site members and the site itself. It goes by accepting (and actually requesting) others' opinions and taking into account negative feedback. While we perfectly understand the privileges given by the statute of site administrator, we think it should not be mistaken with the statute of absolute ruler.

We would like to explicitely specify that we don't want Eeems to be demoted, but that if he fails to correct his behavior we will be forced to go in favor of his demotion.

The goal of this petition is to permit all Omnimaga members, regular and staff, to express themselves on the issues presented here. Should you agree with our point of view, please let us know as soon as possible by any way you would like, while giving priority to public means of communications and especially the Omnimaga forums, while keeping in mind your word will be used as pressure power if extreme conditions make it needed. If you don't want your opinion to be revealed, please don't express yourself on this matter.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 04:36:01 pm by Matrefeytontias »

Offline Streetwalrus

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2014, 04:35:12 pm »
I certify being part of the people mentioned in the beginning. This has been bothering me for quite a while and I know other people than just us faced the same problems.

You're a cool guy Eeems, please don't take the site you manage on your free time too seriously.
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Offline Hayleia

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2014, 04:38:39 pm »
It seems like people are already misunderstanding.

We are not saying "Fuck Eeems". We are not asking for him to leave. We are asking him to change... or rather, to become again the one he was before he changed, to have Omnimaga stay the friendly place it was at its creation.
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Offline Juju

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2014, 04:43:36 pm »
I certify as well I'm one of the signatories of the above post. But yeah, we all love you Eeems, but sometimes we feel you take this too seriously and like if you're the absolute boss of Omnimaga who takes all the decisions. Yeah of course you work with the government, but this isn't the government at all.

I also understand that this takes a lot of your time, I suggest you appoint a few more people as admins, I mean, people who actually know their way around managing servers, as the site is probably pretty understaffed and crumbling below all the issue requests.

We all want Omnimaga to stay a friendly place and we all strive to make it happen, but yeah, we feel you're not helping sometimes.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 04:45:18 pm by Juju »

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Offline Geekboy1011

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2014, 04:47:10 pm »
I plan to make a better rebuttle. But 2 things

1: This Is not a democracy,  We have our internal Rules. AND I MAKE SURE THEY ARE FOLLOWED

2: Everything he does he passes through me. He might not post it. We are personal friends we talk a lot on the the phone. we text skype and generally keep in touch on a very regular basis.  So you say he does not have permission to do things. He does, Or he would not do them, Thats the respect he has for his fellow staff

Offline Streetwalrus

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2014, 04:52:08 pm »
I plan to make a better rebuttle. But 2 things

1: This Is not a democracy,  We have our internal Rules. AND I MAKE SURE THEY ARE FOLLOWED

2: Everything he does he passes through me. He might not post it. We are personal friends we talk a lot on the the phone. we text skype and generally keep in touch on a very regular basis.  So you say he does not have permission to do things. He does, Or he would not do them, Thats the respect he has for his fellow staff
While I have to agree with this, Omnimaga is a community. The goal isn't to enforce things that most members dislike because that would actually scare people away and lead to the community's death. We don't want that, right ?
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Offline aeTIos

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2014, 04:52:48 pm »
I also confirm to be one of the people who signs the above petition. The points that are mentioned in it have been bothering me for quite some time so after discussing the issues with other members who feel the same, I decided to step up and let my voice be heard. I sincerely hope these points will be taken in consideration.

Geekboy: I am not agreeing with your point that this is not a democracy. We built this place, and I think everybody should have a voice. Also, internal rules? You make sure that they are followed? That sounds like a dictatorship.

Final point. If things don't change here, count me out. If I can't have my old place on the web, I will build a new place of my own.

edit fixed typo x.x
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 07:04:00 pm by aeTIos »
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Offline Vogtinator

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2014, 04:55:51 pm »
Quote
Geekboy: I am not agreeing with your point that this is not a democracy. We built this place, and I think everybody should have a voice. Also, internal rules? You make sure like they are followed? That sounds like a dictatorship.

Final point. If things don't change here, count me out. If I can't have my old place on the web, I will build a new place of my own.
Exactly. I'll be gone from here too and I won't come back. But I really hope that it doesn't happen.
I'm not overly active here, but what I could notice is that this wouldn't be a place to stay at for a longer time.

Except that I have to disagree with one thing, it's neat that edits are now broadcasted over IRC.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 04:58:45 pm by Vogtinator »

Offline Matrefeytontias

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2014, 04:59:10 pm »
1: This Is not a democracy,  We have our internal Rules. AND I MAKE SURE THEY ARE FOLLOWED
Democracy is the only system were "citizens" (in this case members) are free to express themselves. You explicitely saying that it's not a democracy means we basically have no freedom of speech. Who would want to voluntarily live in this kind of system ? This absolutely doesn't fit Omnimaga's principles as they are listed here : http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?page=Rules

2: Everything he does he passes through me. He might not post it. We are personal friends we talk a lot on the the phone. we text skype and generally keep in touch on a very regular basis.  So you say he does not have permission to do things. He does, Or he would not do them, Thats the respect he has for his fellow staff
In the eyes of everybody who participated in this petition, you should have long noticed Eeems's actions were bad for Omnimaga.

Offline aeTIos

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2014, 05:01:53 pm »
Quote
Except that I have to disagree with one thing, it's neat that edits are now broadcasted over IRC.
That's not the point we're making. We're pointing out that Eeems has been doing things on his own even when he gets told people don't agree with him.
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Offline jamesguessis

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2014, 05:06:32 pm »
I agree with points made, so I will go with the petition, but I also like being apart of omnimaga, just that I'm an insignificant user, I don't wanna be apart of any conflict if things go bad with the petition
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 05:17:18 pm by jamesguessis »
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Offline Juju

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2014, 05:09:41 pm »
This Is not a democracy,  We have our internal Rules. AND I MAKE SURE THEY ARE FOLLOWED
Well yeah I agree to this, but making sure they are followed are only a thing... And yeah of course it's technically not a democracy, the admins are not elected, but it doesn't mean we have no freedom of speech or rules. Admins shouldn't really be above everyone else either, I think.

I think the problem is that you make the members feel you admin guys are doing nothing. You guys should probably be more open and give a few more explanantions on whatever is happening, no secrets, everyone will be happy. The status news are often rather short and made in a haste...

Final point. If things don't change here, count me out. If I can't have my old place on the web, I will build a new place of my own.
People are scared, are drawn away and a schism will eventually happen. Stuff are rather messy and weird here, if nothing changes to their likings people will go somewhere else, Cemetech, TI-Planet, even entierely new sites.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 05:11:50 pm by Juju »

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Offline Geekboy1011

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2014, 05:11:26 pm »
Geekboy: I am not agreeing with your point that this is not a democracy. We built this place, and I think everybody should have a voice. Also, internal rules? You make sure like they are followed? That sounds like a dictatorship.

Uhm Internal as The rules for admins and staff. There are rules all of us must follow. IF they are not followed they get reprimanded, I dont take the shit from my team. And I am the one that handles the staff. That is ONE of the MANY things I do here.  So yes it is a dictatorship of the rules. We follow them to a T.

And what needs to change other then you all realizing we are doing what we can with the site to make it better. So you may not like a change. But its not your site. You have an issue voice it (hence why this topic is not deleted) But dont expect us to follow everything the members want. It's a community run by the admin team (and owners when they voice it). Not an admin team run by a community.

@Matref. A dictatorship is run by a solid ruler. It does not mean that you can not voice your opinoins. It means its our discretion to act on your thoughts of not. To clarify and point to the rules you so nicely pointed out
Its even bolded
Admins may act on their own discretion at any time.
That what the dictatorship is. We can do as we want. regardless.
Also Some of the stuff Eeems has done I disagree with. I have voiced my opinions to him on it. But it doesnt have to be unanimous for everything. Even I can be outvoted in the decision making process. In the big picture tho. Petty shit aside he had sone just fine for omnimaga, And still plans todo so.



@juju they ask we tell, No one asks except for DJ and he gets all the info I have when he asks. Just no one does. I try to be as verbose with information when i have it as long as i can. People don't ask and the only things I have had the time for are minor Nothing big has changed.

Offline Juju

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2014, 05:15:50 pm »
Admins may act on their own discretion at any time.
Yeah, true, but yeah common sense still applies. Or should. It should be pointed out, at least.

@juju they ask we tell, No one asks except for DJ and he gets all the info I have when he asks. Just no one does. I try to be as verbose with information when i have it as long as i can. People don't ask and the only things I have had the time for are minor Nothing big has changed.
Might indeed be a problem here.

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Offline willrandship

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Re: Dear Omnimaga
« Reply #14 on: November 11, 2014, 05:19:53 pm »
I can't believe what I'm seeing.

Eeems' work has vastly improved omnimaga over the last year. The hiccups that have happened along the way are not harmful to the community, and do not enforce any kind of behavior regarding discussions in the forum. If anything, the primary issue is the lack of a beta-testing channel for new features.

Wouldn't that be a reasonable compromise? Have something along the lines of an SFM theme for new site changes, with a "stable" theme that gets updated a little while after.

Eeems has been the only person actively managing the site's health for a long time now. Arguments about dictatorship vs democracy aren't directly related to this.

By the way, the "explicit disagreement with support staff" were you referring to this suggestion that DJ made, which Eeems said wasn't in the plans?
Quote
[20:00:36]<   DJ Omnimaga   >   Actually
[20:00:58]<   DJ Omnimaga   >   Maybe edits could be a different color and limited to 1 notification a minute by the same author?
[20:02:05]<   Eeems   >   DJ: edit's are going to be the same colour, and they are under the same limitations as they are for marking a topic as new when someone edits something

I don't see anything else even closely resembling an argument, and even that was quite mild.

Also:
Quote
We feel that he has been forcing people to join a different channel to carry discussions about certain topics he doesn't like, while there is no topic restriction for the #omnimaga channel.
That's referring to this, right?
Quote
[21:34:23]<   Eeems   >   We talking about anime?
[21:34:39]<   Eeems   >   If so, I'd suggest moving the discussion to #anime (#omnimaga-anime on efnet)
[21:34:40]<   jamesguessis   >   yesh Eeems
A simple suggestion to move to a topic-oriented channel. There were no threats. Having separate chat channels encourages discussion of those topics alongside others. It allows the conversation to continue unhindered by others derailing it with other topics.

Eeems has been the most responsible administrator I've seen on this site. He's levelheaded and dedicated, not to mention his great work on various parts of the forum. Sending this kind of message shows just how little you appreciate him, and I wouldn't blame him for quitting because of it.

I'm willing to bet I'll get tempbanned for this post, just like when I was trying to be the voice of reason when issues came up with sircmpwn. Who's the censoring dictator? The one who quietly works to improve what he sees around him, offering mild suggestions for moderation at best? How about the mods who decide that all changes must be approved? All improvements should be shoved down a bottleneck before even being tested? Any dissenting voice must be obliterated?

You're tearing the community apart over nothing.