Author Topic: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)  (Read 19335 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ikkerens

  • LV6 Super Member (Next: 500)
  • ******
  • Posts: 378
  • Rating: +28/-9
  • JavaScript Magician
    • View Profile
    • Walotech
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2010, 04:33:39 pm »
Read page 4, my apoligy for my reaction.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2010, 01:25:58 am by Ikkerens »

Splut for Android [----------]
Paused/halted indefinitely, might be abandoned, our graphic designer quit and the rest of us simply doesn't have the time to work on it...

SirCmpwn

  • Guest
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2010, 04:34:09 pm »
Hey, its taken care of now.  Don't worry about it.

Offline meishe91

  • Super Ninja
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2946
  • Rating: +115/-11
    • View Profile
    • DeviantArt
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2010, 04:40:03 pm »
Ok, I really just want to say this once, please. Can we please stop bashing DJ AND Quigibo?

Reasons for Quigibo:
1. Axe Parser is his project. He has all the right in the world to go the direction he chooses, whether we agree with it or not. (My opinion: I think it is INCREDIBLY nice of him to have put this topic up in the first place to see what we think. It has changed into a "hate-fest" now, or it seems like it to me.)
2. No official decisions have been made, to my knowledge. He hasn't stated that he is going to do one thing or the other for sure. All he is doing right now is testing them out to see what we think.
3. He has been a great pal to all of us since he arrived in the TI community (or at least since I joined). He has been there to explain code, help us, ask for help, etc. He doesn't deserve the mistreatments.
4. He is not trying to anger anyone or force anything upon anyone right now.

Reasons for DJ:
1. Omnimaga is his site, he does have the right to do what he wishes with it whether we agree or not. Everyone is has their own opinions. (My opinion: Yes, I think power is being a little abused but I do understand, to a degree, where he is coming from and I'm not going to bitch and complain about it.)
2. He is going off of experience. He is just trying to prevent a big thing of misunderstandings and complications.
3. He is trying to help people like him that don't adjust to changes like those very easily. He isn't trying to purposely be mean to anyone or hurt anyone. He is just trying to help and make sure no one gets excluded or confused or anything.
4. He has been a huge friend to us all and has supported everyone of us in projects, ideas, program help, and a bunch of other things.
5. Not to bring his personal stuff into any of it but he has stated here on Omnimaga that there is just stuff that is affecting decisions and such, he doesn't need to extra bashing to go on top of anything else that is going on.

I am absolutely sure, for a fact, that there are more reasons for both of them. That is just what I thought of when writing this.

Now again, I do not intend to anger anyone by saying these things. I am simply trying to kill the bashing that is going on in this thread, which was not the intention. Everyone has a right to speak/type their opinion, but when you are targeting people specifically or making threats or bashing someone that, I believe, is crossing the line. Sorry.
Spoiler For Spoiler:



For the 51st time, that is not my card! (Magic Joke)

SirCmpwn

  • Guest
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2010, 04:43:16 pm »
I'm also going to say this frankly.
Stop the bullshit, guys.  I will not tolerate a single negative comment towards either of these people.  Keep in mind that Axe isn't even an official release yet.  Stop making any negative comments, period.  You do not want to test me.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Former TI programmer
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55865
  • Rating: +3151/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • DJ Omnimaga Music
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2010, 05:44:02 pm »
Just to clarify the whole thing started before that topic poll was even created, in answer to Meishe91 post. For the rest, that's another story, I'll try to explain later if I figure out how, but for now I would like if people did not post narrow-minded comments regarding the action of anybody including myself or Quigibo. We do not delete offensive posts on Omnimaga (unless they contain Warez or Porn), it is up to the post author to delete/edit it. We will warn and rate posts, simply, but I would like if this did not turn into a flame fest against anybody. Omnimaga is meant to be a place free of hostility as it says on the front page and the rules, and a lot of people prefered this site because of that.

I need some time to think about how I'll explain what happened. I assure you there are no possibility that this happens again, though, because due to certain circumstances, I prefered that the other site admins and some IRC chan ops remove my access from the hosting webspace and the FTP and the only admin action I will soon take is resetting post counts of members, if that is possible.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF



Official Website |T-Shirt store | Reverbnation | Facebook | Youtube | Twitter | Spotify

Offline squidgetx

  • Food.
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1881
  • Rating: +503/-17
  • rawr.
    • View Profile
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2010, 06:10:07 pm »
happy forum is happy

my 2 cents:

I think that, while the original goal of Axe was to provide a similar style to TI BASIC programmers, this is kind of necessary. Commands like Tangent( do not share any similar syntax between Axe and BASIC, and so it's fine to have the token hook replace this with Bitmap(.
Like DJ said somewhere, i think that many of the tokens that share similar syntaxes, like Repeat and possibly conj( should be switched back.
In other words, practice moderation when changing token names. If, Quigibo, you really are running out of possible intuitive commands, then by all means use the token hook to "make" new ones. At the same time, however, previously established commands should retain their original token.

I feel like this will provide a way for newer members to see less "replaced" tokens, as well as not intro'ing too much of a change for longer-time Axe users. I mean, I always just do "Math" "1" when I think "command to display ASCII," so...yeah

souvik1997

  • Guest
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2010, 06:14:18 pm »
It is sad to see the forum divided over one dispute.

Offline Quigibo

  • The Executioner
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 2031
  • Rating: +1075/-24
  • I wish real life had a "Save" and "Load" button...
    • View Profile
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2010, 07:37:40 pm »
This being my first post since last night, I will attempt to explain what I am going to do.

I have decided that it will be too confusing to have 2 ways to say a command and it will divide the community as was seen this morning.  I had no idea how controversial this was, I thought it would not be such a big deal.  There are only 5 or 6 command spellings that would actually change and the rest would just be for new commands only.

That said, I will be going basically with a smooth transition to eventually make the new tokens the standard.  From now on, I will be removing the [alpha]+[vars] shortcut becasue its annoying and you might accidentally forget about enabling/disabling.  I already have automatic recognition working which only displays the new token name if it is part of an Axe source code.  But by default, this option will be disabled and just the normal tokens will be displayed.  Eventually, I will make the new tokens the default, and you will have to change the setting to display the old ones if you still want the original token names.  Then, I am hoping to remove this option and just make it on by default, but only if I see that everyone has adjusted to them and there are enough computer applications and things like that that support the new token sets.  Also, I will make sure the names I choose are all finalized before I do that so it doesn't change once again.

There will be a separate documentation that deals only with token names, their equivalences, how they work, how to use them, how to change the settings, etc.  But I will gradually transition the doc and commands list to the new spellings as people start getting used to them.  This processes will likely take more than a month becasue I want to make sure that everyone is adequately adjusted.  I hate sudden changes as much as everyone else and I know exactly how that feels.

So there is no need to change the old posts.  They are still valid even if they use the TI-BASIC spelling.  Its really not that hard at all to figure out most of the commands are referring to (like how "conj(" and "Copy(" sound almost the same).  I don't think it will be confusing at all, especially since even if they had no idea that an old command was used instead of a new one, they would go to the menu where they normally see that command in the program editor menus and realize that it does indeed have a new spelling.  If they were absolutely unsure they could use the conversion chart that would come with the documentation.  To think that some new coder can't figure this out on their own is completely ridiculous.

This decision is still not final, but this is what I'm leaning towards so I thought I would best let everybody know what's going on.  Also, someone else brought up the point that this is still a beta.  Please remember that.  I could have kept the entire project a secret until 1.0.0 came out so that there would be a single universal and unchanging standard with the syntax.  I decided not to do that becasue I wanted to share my progress with the community and I figured it would be useful even at its early stage.  I have already gotten emails and messages telling me how much people enjoy the Parser and how it has gotten them inspired to code again and I feel my decision to release betas was well worth the downside of instability that comes with it.  I'm really sorry if some of you got too used to the old spellings over the past few months, I never meant to give the impression that nothing would ever change.  I am hoping it will not be too much trouble to learn the 5 or 6 new ones.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 07:42:01 pm by Quigibo »
___Axe_Parser___
Today the calculator, tomorrow the world!

SirCmpwn

  • Guest
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2010, 07:47:15 pm »
I think that is fair.  The only thing that I wanted was for you to choose one or the other, not both.

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Former TI programmer
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55865
  • Rating: +3151/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • DJ Omnimaga Music
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2010, 07:59:51 pm »
I think the automatic token change described in your 3rd paragraph might be the best solution. When you open an Axe program in the PRGM editor (or SourceCoder/Cooliojazz editor?), I think it would be good if those tokens automatically changed, both in menus and the CATALOG.

Also, a few hours ago, SirCmpwn suggested a SMF mod that would allow us to use the Censorship feature of the forums per individual sub-forum instead of having it set global. I will use that bad word filter to change old tokens to new ones in people source code, so people won't need to fix all the old code. IMHO, those old snippets should be preserved in a as useable way as possible and preferably not requiring way too much work from their authors (or staff).

In Cooliojazz/Kerm cases, they could simply set their respective editors so when a program starts with a dot, it's parsed as an Axe program.

I also think the version/change history, including new tokens, should be included in a plain text file or in the PDF with Axe Parser releases. What I mean is the content of every post in the downloads topic (except the screenshots)

As for the forums themselves, I have taken precautions to make sure what happened this morning won't happen again in the future. I will also be taking a break from some stuff soon, too, I think. I've done way too much lately.

I am also sorry for having blown this way out of proportion. I am still trying to figure out what made me overeact this much at such thing, when I normally overeact only if somebody intentionally annoys me for a while (worse when ppl supports his action). The only thing I could find out is having burned myself out by devoting too much time on the site in many ways despite my increased real life work schedule/load, but I still wish that did not happen. I agree with the small quote located in Quigibo profile under his avatar.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 08:01:10 pm by DJ Omnimaga »
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF



Official Website |T-Shirt store | Reverbnation | Facebook | Youtube | Twitter | Spotify

Offline Quigibo

  • The Executioner
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • *
  • Posts: 2031
  • Rating: +1075/-24
  • I wish real life had a "Save" and "Load" button...
    • View Profile
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2010, 08:11:15 pm »
DJ, you cannot have an automatic bad-word-replace becasue then it makes it extremely confusing when talking about conversions.  If somebody asks: "What is the corresponding token to "sign{"?  And then you reply to their question only to have your response say "sign{" again, that could defiantly lead to more annoyances in my opinion then simply keeping the old spellings.  Its impossible to tell if someone is using the token as part of Axe source code or maybe giving the token name as a suggestion, asking about the original tokens, or even giving some TI-BAISC code and asking how to convert it to Axe.
___Axe_Parser___
Today the calculator, tomorrow the world!

Offline nemo

  • LV9 Veteran (Next: 1337)
  • *********
  • Posts: 1203
  • Rating: +95/-11
    • View Profile
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2010, 08:14:38 pm »
int() (changed to sign{ )
i n t ( ) (not changed to sign{ )
people would figure it out rather quickly.


Offline squidgetx

  • Food.
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1881
  • Rating: +503/-17
  • rawr.
    • View Profile
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2010, 08:17:07 pm »
int() (changed to sign{ )
i n t ( ) (not changed to sign{ )
people would figure it out rather quickly.
that's still kind of a pain.
Anyone who decides to program their graphing calc and to look on a forum such as this I think can figure it out for themselves. Like Quigibo said, it's a gradual transition. I think leaving the old topics the way they are is fine...

idk though, really.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2010, 08:17:42 pm by squidgetx »

Offline nemo

  • LV9 Veteran (Next: 1337)
  • *********
  • Posts: 1203
  • Rating: +95/-11
    • View Profile
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2010, 08:19:57 pm »
eh, i don't think it's so bad. regardless, anyone who's bothering to switch from BASIC syntax to Axe syntax definitely has enough determination to figure out how different token names work. all you need is about 2 sentences of documentation to explain the feature, how to toggle them and that there is no difference between Conj( and Copy(

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Former TI programmer
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55865
  • Rating: +3151/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • DJ Omnimaga Music
Re: Axe Tokens (Read Post Before Voting)
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2010, 08:23:19 pm »
Well then I think we should just go with a small reference somewhere to help people transition. I feel at least the automatic changes in the PRGM editors will help a lot.

That said, people need to understand everyone is different, though. IN my case, for example, I have big troubles learning new stuff and getting used to changes. Because you are getting used to them easily doesn't mean everyone else will do it as easily. It would be narrow-minded to say this. But I'll drop this since it doesn't matter anyway, as the change will be happening. I wish Quigibo good luck in trying to implement automatic change in the BASIC parser. That would be very handy
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF



Official Website |T-Shirt store | Reverbnation | Facebook | Youtube | Twitter | Spotify