Author Topic: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin  (Read 218050 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SpiroH

  • LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
  • ********
  • Posts: 714
  • Rating: +153/-23
    • View Profile
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #150 on: July 18, 2012, 09:01:47 pm »
...
for new users it would certainly be a good idea if you also attach the package with skins and helpfiles (which you posted some time ago for v25) to your previous posting.
Ok Franz, thanks for the reminder. I needed to make some small updates to the help file, though. It remains a very simple help file. Well, users can personalize it themselves as time goes by... Easy enough to find an html editor, nowadays. ;)
I also attach a package with skins from v25. We have some upload size limitations, so i had to shrink the skins package slightly. A tiny ShotsGIF folder with 2 sample AnimatedGIFs is also attached.

For new users, please pay attention to the required files layout! Below is a screenshot of my running kArmTI file set.


Cheers,

PS: I had some troubles uploading the SKINS archive, so i leave here an alternative link kArmTI-v25-SKINS just in case...



Offline apcalc

  • The Game
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • *
  • Posts: 1393
  • Rating: +120/-2
  • VGhlIEdhbWUh (Base 64 :))
    • View Profile
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #151 on: July 18, 2012, 09:20:59 pm »
Looks nice! :)


Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Former TI programmer
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55823
  • Rating: +3151/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • DJ Omnimaga Music
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #152 on: July 19, 2012, 01:59:54 pm »
Question, as keeping this emulator up to date might become an issue in long terms due to the focus on GUI, what are the chances that in the future, it becomes sort sort of layer that goes over the original nspire_emu so people can still use it but with kArmTI skin support? (There's Xspire which does that, but it's incredibly brutally to get to run at all) Or are you planning to eventually make it open source, available on GitHub or something so that multiple people can help if you get too busy?

Also note that I don't think anybody should try to discourage anyone from working on an alternate emulator. After all, maybe if kArmTI is seen as some sort of competition, it will eventually get Goplat or other people to post nspire_emu updates on the forums on a more regular basis? (Until just now, I thought the original nspire_emu was dead and that Goplat was pretty much done with calculators, since it has been months since I last spotted an update on Omni) Also I personally would rather use an user-friendly version like kArmTI, so I don't have to install TeamViewer to get some tech-savy people to get nspire_emu to run for me (which is the reason why I still use version 0.20)
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF



T-Shirt store | Reverbnation | Facebook | Youtube | Twitter

Offline Lionel Debroux

  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2135
  • Rating: +290/-45
    • View Profile
    • TI-Chess Team
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #153 on: July 19, 2012, 02:43:02 pm »
Quote
what are the chances that in the future, it becomes sort sort of layer that goes over the original nspire_emu so people can still use it but with kArmTI skin support?
As this fork of an open source software is closed source, AFAICT and at the time of this writing, basically zero chances. That's precisely why I raised the matter: kArmTI brings some useful features, and we can do much better than seeing them go to waste in the short term, or having to spend a fair bit of time reimplementing them :)

Quote
Or are you planning to eventually make it open source, available on GitHub or something so that multiple people can help if you get too busy?
FWIW, the fact that ncubate has always been open source is what made it possible to integrate most of its distinctive features (first and foremost, the GDBstub, but there are several other changes) into a newer version of the emulator. The integration was done by someone else than ExtendeD.

Quote
Also note that I don't think anybody should try to discourage anyone from working on an alternate emulator.
Indeed. I don't think you were targetting me, but anyhow, I do not aim at discouraging people from working on alternate emulators. An alternate emulator can prove useful; but less so if it's based on outdated versions, and even less so when it soon becomes unmaintained :)
I suggest that those who work on alternate emulators communicate (more, or at all) with upstream, so as to avoid basing their work on outdated versions.


I'm no free software extremist, I happily use some proprietary bits on my Linux machines and I'm very far from trolling message boards on FLOSS/proprietary matters at every occasion. Still, I think that the fact that kArmTI is, at the time of this writing, a proprietary fork of an open source software, is doing more harm than good... and we should fix that, IMO.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 03:07:46 pm by Lionel Debroux »
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TILP and TIEmu.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

Offline SpiroH

  • LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
  • ********
  • Posts: 714
  • Rating: +153/-23
    • View Profile
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #154 on: July 19, 2012, 03:30:18 pm »
... Or are you planning to eventually make it open source, available on GitHub or something so that multiple people can help if you get too busy?
Thanks for the polite question. Yes, i'm planning to make it open-source, specially if i get too busy to maintain it, but not just yet. Let's see first how it develops. I mean how do users, in general, like it or not. How stable it is, etc.
I really do not understand all the fuss revolving around the open-source issue. Afterall, closed-source is only so until someone decides to open it. Right?

Cheers,

Offline Jim Bauwens

  • Lua! Nspire! Linux!
  • Editor
  • LV10 31337 u53r (Next: 2000)
  • **********
  • Posts: 1881
  • Rating: +206/-7
  • Linux!
    • View Profile
    • nothing...
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #155 on: July 19, 2012, 05:01:06 pm »
I think you guys are misunderstanding Lionel. He is not disliking/bashing kArmTI, but is trying to secure its future. If kArmTI stays closed source, OR the author doesn't communicate with upstream there is A VERY BIG chance it will get outdated and die eventually. Lionel is just warning you for this, and trying to help you by giving some good advice.

I think kArmTI is great, but Lionel made some points that realy need to be considered.

Offline SpiroH

  • LV8 Addict (Next: 1000)
  • ********
  • Posts: 714
  • Rating: +153/-23
    • View Profile
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #156 on: July 19, 2012, 05:52:31 pm »
I think you guys are misunderstanding Lionel. ...
Hi Jim, I agree, there can only be a big misunderstanding. Not serious, though. Let me clear up some points:
1. I do not use the gnu compiler nor its tool-chain at all.
2. Actually, i've ported the assembly part of the nspire_emu code to MS's asm format, so that i could do all the development in visual studio environment, the one i normally use, and not any gnu derivative.
3. As you may be guessing, it's not that straightforward just to connect the two separate environments.
4. Actually, i've heard for the first time about upstream here. I gather is some sort of package maintainer.
5. It doesn't scare me a lot that kArmTI get's outdated, as long as it still works. Besides, i've never heard of any nspire_emu update until now. Still, i can't find it anywhere?
6. Unlike you, I just think Lionel is speculating a lot without a sound foundament.

Finally, I would like that this rather fruitless discussion would end as soon as possible. I'm afraid it has become unecessarily unfriendly without any plausible reason.
I'm just trying to make it easier for the general ti-nspire user to take advantage of the emulator. I'm not selling kArmTI for profit.
If you don't like, don't use it, but please do not replace my 'way of thinking' with pure conjectures. I'm still alive and consider it rather offensive.
I, for one, from now on will consider this subject as terminated.

Best regards,

Offline shmibs

  • しらす丼
  • Administrator
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2132
  • Rating: +281/-3
  • try to be ok, ok?
    • View Profile
    • shmibbles.me
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #157 on: July 19, 2012, 10:51:40 pm »
"upstream" doesn't refer to any particular application, or something like that; it's just a term used for software upon which another piece of software is based. it's thus named because any changes to a project that's "upstream" to add bugfixes and improvements will affect everything "downstream," often requiring modifications to the downstream projects in order for them to keep up to date.

the concern lionel and jimb are presenting is that, if a project remains closed source, the creator can easily become bored of working on it and cease making updates, and everyone else will not be able to do anything about it. this becomes a problem because changes upstream will no longer be implemented in the downstream application, and thus the end users will not be able to enjoy the improvements made in the upstream version. making a project open source, in an already profit-free situation like this one, just means that, if you get bored in the future, or if you just need some help, other people can help keep the project up to date.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 10:53:58 pm by shmibs »

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Former TI programmer
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55823
  • Rating: +3151/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • DJ Omnimaga Music
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #158 on: July 19, 2012, 11:13:58 pm »
I don't think it really matters at this point if it's open-source or not, as the author has stated its future status anyway. What matters is the work that was done so far, not how it was done, and Omnimaga philosophy was always discouraging badmouthing programmers for programming in a certain way. Also per respect for this topic author, I think the open-source debate should be moved to a different topic from now on. This was not the place to do it anyway (and we used to ban people for criticizing projects the way it was done above anyway).

Spiro I hope you will continue this project, because I am really looking forward for it as soon as I have time to try it. Omnimaga is generally respectful and nobody mean any harm for you or your project. In the current scenario I think debating whether Open source is better or not should be done outside a project topic (don't we have general discussions area on the forums for that anyway?).
« Last Edit: July 19, 2012, 11:15:29 pm by DJ_O »
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF



T-Shirt store | Reverbnation | Facebook | Youtube | Twitter

Offline Lionel Debroux

  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2135
  • Rating: +290/-45
    • View Profile
    • TI-Chess Team
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #159 on: July 20, 2012, 01:59:10 am »
By now, I've been a member of the TI community for more than 11 years. In that long period, I've seen way too many projects fade away because the maintainer went away for whatever reason (including illness or death, we've had several), lost the sources due to a hard drive crash (calc84maniac's GB/GBC emulator, a TI-Z80 emulator better than TI's, and his projects for emulating TI-68k calculators and the GBA; the TimeToTeam's work on a large game for TI-68k calculators), or such reasons. An awful lot of time lost (due to risks not avoided / mitigated), and needless to say, not all of it reimplemented. After calc84maniac's hard drive crash, no GBA emulator for two years, until he restarted working on it !

That may seem "speculating a lot without sound foundament" and "pure conjectures" to you, but from my POV, that's just "trying to benefit from experience return on past _real_ events (which are more likely than you seem to think !) by setting procedures not make the same kind of mistakes again (or at least, make it less likely that they occur with large impact)"...
A well-known effective measure against those problems is the combination of making backups on multiple locations, and "publishing" the sources / patches / whatever, either privately (through e.g. e-mail) or publicly. I'm using that measure myself, not only in my job as a professional software developer (corporations try to reduce time and money lost due to risks of everyday life [EDIT: and unreliable hardware]), but also for my free time projects - multiple members of the community can testify to the latter.

But relative newcomers are free to choose to ignore the wisdom of old-timers ;)


The subject is terminated from my side as well. I've made explicit, from the very first post ( http://ourl.ca/16585/310698 ), that there's value in kArmTI; and yet, SpiroH, fhub consider that I don't like kArmTI (??! - I could just have ignored the matter instead of raising it myself before it bites, I had already talked about my concerns to other persons !), and DJ_O considers that I'm trying to debate whether OSS is better in general... It's not very nice to see my explicit statements being misrepresented that way - all the more jimbauwens and shmibs seem to have understood my points, so it doesn't seem that I've totally failed at communicating my thoughts, and that I've warranted a moderator warning.

EDIT: split the misrepresentations of SpiroH and fhub on the one side, and DJ_O on the other side.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 03:21:24 am by Lionel Debroux »
Member of the TI-Chess Team.
Co-maintainer of GCC4TI (GCC4TI online documentation), TILP and TIEmu.
Co-admin of TI-Planet.

Offline jwalker

  • LV7 Elite (Next: 700)
  • *******
  • Posts: 660
  • Rating: +13/-0
  • Almost everything I have released includes a 'WZ'
    • View Profile
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #160 on: July 20, 2012, 02:22:06 am »
I do agree with lionel, the nspire scene can change rapidly, and if you cant update your source and it is a closed source program, then poeple stop using it and all of your hard work prety much becomes worthless. Like lionel also said, if you suffer a crash or something and your source was completely lost then your work would be avaliable to you.
On a side note, Nice Job! I like the skin editor idea and having gif recording built in. I think that this definately will be usefull.
<a href="http://www.nerdtests.com/ft_cg.php?im">
<img src="http://www.nerdtests.com/images/ft/cg.php?val=9612" alt="My computer geek score is greater than 41% of all people in the world! How do you compare? Click here to find out!"> </a>

Support Casio-Scene against the attacks of matt @ matpac.co.uk ! For more information: Casio-Scene shuts down & Matt actions threads

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Former TI programmer
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55823
  • Rating: +3151/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • DJ Omnimaga Music
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #161 on: July 20, 2012, 02:38:42 am »
Lionel I wasn't saying you were attacking kArmTI, I was saying SpiroH felt offended by your comments, and that because of this, it would be better to answer his wish of ending the discussion.
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF



T-Shirt store | Reverbnation | Facebook | Youtube | Twitter

Offline shmibs

  • しらす丼
  • Administrator
  • LV11 Super Veteran (Next: 3000)
  • ***********
  • Posts: 2132
  • Rating: +281/-3
  • try to be ok, ok?
    • View Profile
    • shmibbles.me
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #162 on: July 20, 2012, 02:50:14 am »
i don't believe there has been any hostility from anyone towards anyone in this conversation, but, lest it escalate into something less friendly, it's best that the discussion of this topic end here. thanks, everyone =)

Offline DJ Omnimaga

  • Former TI programmer
  • CoT Emeritus
  • LV15 Omnimagician (Next: --)
  • *
  • Posts: 55823
  • Rating: +3151/-232
  • CodeWalrus founder & retired Omnimaga founder
    • View Profile
    • DJ Omnimaga Music
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #163 on: July 20, 2012, 02:53:54 am »
Could we make a new topic (or move some of the related discussion to another so that it doesn't all have to be re-posted) if we want to continue discussing about Open vs closed source software?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 02:54:12 am by DJ_O »
In case you are wondering where I went, I left Omni back in 2015 to form CodeWalrus due to various reasons explained back then, but I stopped calc dev in 2016 and am now mostly active on the CW Discord server at https://discord.gg/cuZcfcF



T-Shirt store | Reverbnation | Facebook | Youtube | Twitter

Offline Hayleia

  • Programming Absol
  • Coder Of Tomorrow
  • LV12 Extreme Poster (Next: 5000)
  • ************
  • Posts: 3367
  • Rating: +393/-7
    • View Profile
Re: kArmTI - TI-Nspire emulator with skin
« Reply #164 on: July 20, 2012, 07:18:02 am »
You can be sure that EVERYONE here likes your kArmTI very much!
Nice Job! I like the skin editor idea and having gif recording built in. I think that this definately will be usefull.
^This. Your emulator is very useful to me because easy to set up (once we figure out the one line needed to have it to work), contrarily to Nspire_emu that I never managed to launch properly, and it has a lot of useful features. So keep up the good work :D
I own: 83+ ; 84+SE ; 76.fr ; CX CAS ; Prizm ; 84+CSE
Sorry if I answer with something that seems unrelated, English is not my primary language and I might not have understood well. Sorry if I make English mistakes too.

click here to know where you got your last +1s